Self-realization, TAO, emptiness, kundalini, prana, self-mastery

[zazaza]

Edited December 25, 2009 by zazaza

[lino]

Watch out you don't end like me.

Edited December 25, 2009 by lino

[goldisheavy]

[zazaza]

What I don't like about this is that these and many other teachers use the word "mind" where "mindset" should have been used instead. They are talking about a structure in the mind, or a mindset, and not mind.

You're right, their language is not perfect.

That is why I also recommend people to look into that buddhist book I recommended.

 

It speaks about the same thing but just different terms.

If people can read/hear the same thing in different terms,

they have the oppurtunity to realize it's not about the words

 

it's about what they point out.

Even nisargadatta himself explains the same thing in many different ways,

so it often looks like he's contradicting himself but he's not.

He's always speaking about the same thing:

how one can be in the state of enlightenment/liberation/nirvana/TAO,

here and now.

 

On the otherhand, I can agree that this meditative state of being is a mindset,

but it is a mindset where one has a very clear view on what the mind is, how the mind works,

and how to control it in such a way that it no longer leads to samsara,

so that we may always be blissfully happy & full of energy.

 

These 2 tools empower us to make the best of our internal world,

but also the external world we live in.

Edited December 25, 2009 by zazaza

[C T]

Very interesting topic here Z - thanks for sharing the perspectives!

 

Have a listen to one of my teachers talking about the gross and subtle mind.. Very interesting, he touches

on how the subtle mind gets reborn, why its more vital than the gross mind, and how actions determine

future lives.

 

 

Blessings!

[zazaza]

he touches on how the subtle mind gets reborn,

why its more vital than the gross mind, and how actions determine

future lives.

Hmm, I don't know much about "future lives" so far.

All i know is that the true buddhist and yogic masters are all right

about at least one thing: the best thing we can do for ourselves is to purify our mind.

 

It didn't hurt for me to listen to that talk, but I'll see how the "future"

unfolds as it unfolds.

 

Even without reincarnation samsara exists.

Every moment people reincarnate into thought forms that limit them.

It limits their energy levels, their happiness... they suffer.

 

Below is a vid from the same guy you just quoted,

he has some interesting critiques on spiritual teachers.

 

Edited December 25, 2009 by zazaza

[C T]

Hmm, I don't know much about "future lives" so far.

 

Haha its not that deep.. Every passing moment is a 'future life'!

[C T]

"Some people believe that they have to just keep on meditating, or practice this or that system,

someday their egg will hatch and they will fly out of the shell and ascend to a completely different

level. Actually its not like that at all. We should not think, 'The awakened state must be really

something special. If i practice this long enough, one day a door will open and i will see it and all

the qualities will pour into me.' Its pointless to have such an attitude. If we really want something

spectacular, we will indeed have opportunities for that, in what is called the *temporary meditation

moods* of bliss, clarity and nonthought. These can occur, but such sensational experiences do not

help to cut through thoughts. On the contrary, they generate even more fixation because we may

start to think, 'Wow! What is that? This must be IT! I have attained enlightenment - i am now a real

yogi!' (Laughs). Many subsequent thoughts arise in response to the fascination with these experiences.

 

Non-conceptual wakefulness, or primordial wakefulness, overcomes all conceptual thinking. If non-

conceptual wakefulness were merely another form of thinking, it could never overcome thoughts.

In the very moment of recognizing this inborn wakeful quality, thoughts are cut through and over-

come. Is there anything more wonderful than that?" -- Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche

 

.......... .......... ...........

 

Peace at Christmas and always, to all beings.

[zazaza]

Haha its not that deep.. Every passing moment is a 'future life'!

When I heard him it sounded like he really talked about reincarnation and future lives,

reincarnating into pigs and spirits and stuff.

 

If that's not what he means then why does he say it that way?

[C T]

When I heard him it sounded like he really talked about reincarnation and future lives,

reincarnating into pigs and spirits and stuff.

 

If that's not what he means then why does he say it that way?

A perspective:

http://www.thebigview.com/buddhism/karma.html

 

You have to understand that the teachings were given in a culture that strongly

evolves around these matters. So he had to teach skillfully and accordingly.

He is doing nothing more than planting seeds.. The fruition has nothing whatsoever

to do with the planter. Some places you need to plant seeds in the soil, while in

other places, seeds can be planted in water. Different mediums can produce the same

fruits!

Edited December 25, 2009 by CowTao

[zazaza]

If reincarnation does not exist, i think it's better to not tell people this,

as it may only give rise to new illusions.

 

On the otherhand, i am willing to be honest that i don't know all the truths of this universe, neither about reincarnation.

 

Al I know is that the light is very bright,

the dark can be very dark,

and the fire is very powerful.

Edited December 25, 2009 by zazaza

[C T]

If reincarnation does not exist, i think it's better to not tell people this,

as it may only give rise to new illusions.

 

On the otherhand, i am willing to be honest that i don't know all the truths of this universe, neither about reincarnation.

 

Al I know is that the light is very bright,

the dark can be very dark,

and the fire is very powerful.

If rebirth (a more appropriate label) were to be an untruth, it would be difficult to reconcile how all things

are changing every moment. Yes we can simply call it change, but some concepts would demand a

degree of precision, hence the dogmas. But they are not really significant in the final analysis.

 

I hope you reflected on the link posted. Its well elaborated there, to a point.

 

(edit) PS. "Someday, after mastering the winds, the waves, the tides, and gravity, we shall harness for

God the energies of love, and then for a second time in the history of the world, man will

have discovered fire.." -- Teilhard deChardin

Edited December 25, 2009 by CowTao

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Edited December 25, 2009 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[C T]

"But with the non-dual state, suddenly... there is nothing outside of you to smash into you, bruise you, torment you. Suddenly, you do not HAVE an experience, you ARE every experience that arises, and so you are instantly released into all space: you and the entire Kosmos are one hand, one experience, one display, one gesture of great perfection. There is nothing outside of you you can want, or desire, or seek, or grasp - your soul expands to the corners of the universe and embraces all with infinite delight. You are utterly Full, utterly Saturated, so full and saturated that the boundaries to the Kosmos completely explodes and leave you without date or duration, time or location, awash in an ocean of infinite care. You are released into the All, as the All - you are the Self-seen radiant Kosmos, you are the universe of one-taste, and the taste is utterly infinite...

 

See the sunlight on the mountains? Feel the cool breeze? What is NOT utterly obvious? Who is NOT already enlightened? As a Zen master put it, "When i heard the sound of a bell ringing, there was no 'I' and no bell, just the sound". There is no twiceness, no twoness, in immediate experience! No inside and no outside, no subject and no object - just immediate awareness itself, the sound of one hand clapping...

 

This state is not something you can 'bring about'. This non-dual state, this state of One Taste, is the very nature of every experience BEFORE you slice it up (with thoughts, or ideas, or perception). This One Taste is not some experience you bring about through effort; rather it is the actual condition of all experience BEFORE you do anything to it. This uncontrived state is prior to effort, prior to grasping, prior to avoiding. It is the real world before you do anything to it, including before the *effort to see it non-dually*." -- Ken Wilber

[Birch]

That was very good Mr Cow.

Please tell it to my mom;-)

 

Happy Christmas Everyone!

[One love]

"Some people believe that they have to just keep on meditating, or practice this or that system,

someday their egg will hatch and they will fly out of the shell and ascend to a completely different

level.

 

Totally.

[zazaza]

People should definately continue to practice insight meditation until they have insight into their true nature.

 

Nisargadatta and ramana would call this "doing sadhana" and no it doesn't mean we need to practice mindfullness for 3 hours per day on a cushion,

 

it means we need to practice mindfullness 24/24 during everything we do.

sitting down meditation for short periods can often be good help to speed up development of insight,

but it is not required.

 

if the desire for mindfullness/enlightenment is very strong,

then the mindfullness will become stronger and stronger every day

no matter what we are doing...

 

and then one day that can happen very very soon...

we will be VERY MINDFULL AND TOTALLY LIBERATED FROM SAMSARA,

being very very happy.

 

 

 

even lazy people without discipline can become enlightened if they only look clearly.

having a clear look isn't a hard thing to do.

 

you're not having to do dishes or hardlabor, you can just see clearly....

and by doing that, you will see through your mistakes and they will fall off automatically.

 

The result is that DISCIPLINE, MOTIVATION and ENERGY arise spontaneously...

Even in the most lazy persons!

 

 

 

 

That is why "Nisaradatta says that perfect action does not leads to enlightenment,

enlightenment leads to perfect action"

 

Although! one little tiny easy action is required to do for enlightenment to come crashing

into our illusions... and that is the practice of selfinquiry and mindfullness.

 

Asleep. Awake. A matter of choosing wisely.

Edited December 25, 2009 by zazaza

[Tao99]

"But with the non-dual state, suddenly... there is nothing outside of you to smash into you, bruise you, torment you. Suddenly, you do not HAVE an experience, you ARE every experience that arises, and so you are instantly released into all space: you and the entire Kosmos are one hand, one experience, one display, one gesture of great perfection. There is nothing outside of you you can want, or desire, or seek, or grasp - your soul expands to the corners of the universe and embraces all with infinite delight. You are utterly Full, utterly Saturated, so full and saturated that the boundaries to the Kosmos completely explodes and leave you without date or duration, time or location, awash in an ocean of infinite care. You are released into the All, as the All - you are the Self-seen radiant Kosmos, you are the universe of one-taste [beyond the yin/yang duality), and the taste is utterly infinite...

 

See the sunlight on the mountains? Feel the cool breeze? What is NOT utterly obvious? Who is NOT already enlightened? As a Zen master put it, "When i heard the sound of a bell ringing, there was no 'I' and no bell, just the sound". There is no twiceness, no twoness, in immediate experience! No inside and no outside, no subject and no object - just immediate awareness itself, the sound of one hand clapping...

 

This state is not something you can 'bring about'. This non-dual state, this state of One Taste, is the very nature of every experience BEFORE you slice it up (with thoughts, or ideas, or perception). This One Taste is not some experience you bring about through effort; rather it is the actual condition of all experience BEFORE you do anything to it. This uncontrived state is prior to effort, prior to grasping, prior to avoiding. It is the real world before you do anything to it, including before the *effort to see it non-dually*." -- Ken Wilber

That is a great description!

Edited February 3, 2010 by Tao99

[Owledge]

Very interesting topic here Z - thanks for sharing the perspectives!

 

Have a listen to one of my teachers talking about the gross and subtle mind.. Very interesting, he touches

on how the subtle mind gets reborn, why its more vital than the gross mind, and how actions determine

future lives.

 

 

Blessings!

To me his style appears preachy. If I'm not mistaken, stern and quick talking tends to circumvent the conscious perception and to indoctrinate.

And calling things like craftsmanship a waste of time could be narrow-minded. I think there's constant interaction between the 'two minds'. The subtle mind can benefit from learning craftsmanship. It depends on your intention to cultivate it. Then it doesn't matter what you do. You can learn and gain insight from doing anything when you are in the right mindset.

 

The last part about subjective perceptions of people's good or bad actions I find very interesting though.

Generally, after watching some videos, I have mixed feelings. I can see the results of logical debate practice. Very nice. Good humor, although sometimes I wonder whether it goes over the top with subtle negative influences on his personality.

I also find that his immense and pure reverence for the Dalai Lama speaks for itself. That is probably not so healthy, considering that the Dalai Lama can make mistakes, too. The DL humbly says he is just a simple monk. Well, he should really live up to that, and so should others, because I think that would do everybody a favor, including buddhism itself.

Edited January 21, 2010 by Hardyg

[tyler zambori]

Going back to the quotes in the first post, the problem I have with

the language the Hindus use, is they are usually always talking

around something they can't describe.

 

Bag that, I want some clarity.

[jinjujitsu]

Going back to the quotes in the first post, the problem I have with

the language the Hindus use, is they are usually always talking

around something they can't describe.

 

Bag that, I want some clarity.

 

 

Not all things can be described. And not all those who describe things saw what these great ones did. So what's your complaint here?