Ayahuasca experience

[Owledge]

buy the way, during ayhuasca I experienced the killing of all the chickens we eat everyday as chicken nuggets for example........

it was so painful, I felt /was the killing, the pain, the death, the soul out of chicken, the asking for forgiveness of that chickens.............everything

Interesting that he points out this aspect. What about the probably much greater suffering of all the animals not killed by humans? What about the huge death caused by everything else? And is the death of a higher lifeform more painful than that of a lower? Is there 'less going on' with lower lifeforms?

 

This could be a great opportunity for him to answer some specific questions like this. (When he's in the condition to do this without suffering more.) Because these descriptions of spiritual experiences are not so uncommon, but they're always very vague or selective.

 

I guess people who go through things like this must get a vast knowledge of things, derived from insight.

 

Then again ... maybe they just experience new insight on the basis of what they already know or believe.

Edited December 31, 2009 by Hardyg

[Taomeow]

Interesting that he points out this aspect. What about the probably much greater suffering of all the animals not killed by humans? What about the huge death caused by everything else? And is the death of a higher lifeform more painful than that of a lower? Is there 'less going on' with lower lifeforms?

 

Well, I can answer that because She took me on a journey through several types of death (surprise -- there's several, not just one...) To explain, I have to bring up Her main lesson to me repeated on many examples, from the lowest life forms to the sentient beings in dimensions that generate ours. The lesson was, Do Not Abuse Power.

 

So, basically, She showed me that the only suffering and the only horrible death comes as a result of some form of abuse of power, not of use of power. A most important distinction. So a wolf who kills a sheep to eat it because that's what a wolf eats is using but not abusing power, and suffering and horrible death don't result, what results is a path -- for the sheep -- into somewhere I don't know what can or cannot happen for the sheep next because I didn't have a chance to investigate (what happened for me was, the shaman spotted that I'm in that world and made a bridge of smoke and sound to show me the way back.) But then when people "eradicate" wolves because it's been our habit to "eradicate" all species that might have some power (and enslave the ones that have none) -- that's abuse of power, and that creates a different kind of death, a horrible one.

 

The interesting part being that the abusers of power get to a place that's the worst kind of death I've seen, a hell of sorts but not the burning hell but a customized one, where everything you ever did that abuses power is done to you by all the demons your actions had created. This is a superficial description of course, but the first thing I knew after visiting that place was that there's nothing in the world worth abusing power for, considering you will have to experience the receiving end of the process... and there's no information I have as to the 'proportions' -- demons grow by themselves in certain fertile soils, so a minor abuse of power is not guaranteed to produce minor repercussions, it can grow huge and vicious and want nothing but do the only thing it knows how -- the very thing YOU taught it how to do when you created it! -- only now it wants to do it to YOU, and there's no reasoning with it as to the "fair" proportions of the ricochet action... I kid you not. Oh, and the way you know it's all REAL is, you recognize those demons. They are not anonymous. You just see what you actually did do -- magnified and embodied and turned around against you.

 

Then again ... maybe they just experience new insight on the basis of what they already know or believe.

 

No way. 99% of it was a shocking surprise, and went against any and all beliefs I ever had.

[Owledge]

Thank you for the detailed answer!

It makes some things a bit clearer, and some things produce new questions. Mostly I'm still wondering about "who judges?". Like... when chickens are killed for us to eat, does the killer or the chicken matter more in terms of cruelty 'generated'? Does it matter in which way it is killed, or how necessary it is, or both?

Animal rights people demand that animals for food are at least killed in a 'humane' way. What about wolves killing sheep? Might their personality differences make one wolf develop a less cruel way of killing the prey, while another wolf just doesn't care, because it's easier? Who judges how cruel that is; how far the ability of the wolf to avoid cruelness can go and should go?

I'm aware that "who judges?" is a bad way of saying it, thay maybe it's just the karmic law of the universe, but in that case, the questions are still valid, I think.

Edited December 31, 2009 by Hardyg

[Taomeow]

Thank you for the detailed answer!

It makes some things a bit clearer, and some things produce new questions. Mostly I'm still wondering about "who judges?". Like... when chickens are killed for us to eat, does the killer or the chicken matter more in terms of cruelty 'generated'? Does it matter in which way it is killed, or how necessary it is, or both?

Animal rights people demand that animals for food are at least killed in a 'humane' way. What about wolves killing sheep? Might their personality differences make one wolf develop a less cruel way of killing the prey, while another wolf just doesn't care, because it's easier? Who judges how cruel that is; how far the ability of the wolf to avoid cruelness can go and should go?

I'm aware that "who judges?" is a bad way of saying it, thay maybe it's just the karmic law of the universe, but in that case, the questions are still valid, I think.

Um... I can only judge what I saw and experienced, and "judge" is not quite the word... you get a different kind of perceptions from Her, trans-human for lack of a better word, so explaining a trans-human "judgement" in human terms is a bit like explaining a symphony to someone deaf from birth. So the question "who's to judge" is like asking, well, say you hear Beethoven's No.9 and your deaf buddy hears nothing, who's to judge?.. Beethoven himself was deaf but he could hear his music even when he was deaf because he hadn't always been deaf. If he had always been deaf, he would never even know what music was. Ayahuasca merely eliminates, temporarily, certain kinds of "deafness, dumbness and blindness" from our perceptions, but until/unless they had been eliminated even once, there's no sharing the experience with anyone who never had it. By the same token, once you've had it, you can "judge" to the same extent that Beethoven could compose even after his hearing was gone. HE's the judge of what "Beethoven's music" is, an absolute authority. Ayahuasca makes you such an authority on whatever She puts you in touch with -- absolute. No overruling it... regardless of whether it can be shared with others and agreed on by someone else. Hard to explain...

 

So, to your animal question... See, the way space and time are really arranged, you are animals and animals are you, there are no real cut-off lines anywhere, only dimensional shifts of aspects of your existence... it's just that animal aspects and human aspects of the same entity occupy different... um, don't know what to call it... OK, realities, different space-time/mutual-access realities. My scientific, anti-spiritual in this-here reality husband is really a bear, and a bear-shaman, and a bear-king -- not "was once" but "is now" but it's a different kind of "now..." I didn't know that. I was shocked out of my mind but at the same time the bear connection explained to me pretty much everything, I mean every single thing I never understood, about all of his current "now" human personality... and to this day, due to this having been shown to me, I understand him better than I ever did in the whole history of our long and tempestuous marriage. So... things like that. Animals are us. It's hard to explain, I have to repeat, but none of it is really important to understand. There's only one thing important to understand. DO NOT ABUSE POWER. Anyone who gets that, don't have to worry his or her lil' head none about none of the rest of it... That's the cosmic jackpot. Hit it and enjoy the most mind-blowing universe of meaning, love, beauty and justice way beyond your wildest dreams. Miss it... Ouch.