How important is a closing?

[NeiChuan]

So I've been training and making more progress.. I heard closings after qi gong are very important.. Then again I know alotta've people who don't..

 

What are your opinions on it?

[lifeforce]

Every time I do a nei gong set, meditation or zhan zhuang, I always finish off with a closing/rubbing/patting all over the body.

Just to make sure that the accumulated qi does not get 'stuck' anywhere. Especially in the head as this can be dangerous.

 

Good post.

[Aetherous]

I think bringing it all to the dan tien is essential.

 

Lately I've been rolling the ankles around for a while afterward.

 

Good point, lifeforce, about massaging. I'm often too lazy to do it, but it's a really great idea.

[fiveelementtao]

Closedown is essential for absorbing the energy you've created. I require my students to close down. If they do not, I will expel them as students. for their own health. IME, If you do not close down, you will lose valuable Qi which will simply sit in your aura and disperse. It is also possible that Qi can get stuck and cause problems. Closedown and self massage after training is the final and most important step. IME, if you are not going to close down, you are better off not practicing. IME, any teacher that does not require a closedown, does not completely understand their art.

my.02

[Non]

how do you close?

[fiveelementtao]

how do you close?

 

After your energy work, bring hands to navel (Lower Dan Tien) breathe deeply and allow the energy to spiral into your navel. Then finish your routine with self massage...

mZOqPwSl2EE&feature

[Ya Mu]

Closedown is essential for absorbing the energy you've created. I require my students to close down. If they do not, I will expel them as students. for their own health. IME, If you do not close down, you will lose valuable Qi which will simply sit in your aura and disperse. It is also possible that Qi can get stuck and cause problems. Closedown and self massage after training is the final and most important step. IME, if you are not going to close down, you are better off not practicing. IME, any teacher that does not require a closedown, does not completely understand their art.

my.02

 

100% agree. If a person is too damn lazy to do the closing they should not even be practicing.

[soaring crane]

Edited December 29, 2009 by soaring crane

[NeiChuan]

Closedown is essential for absorbing the energy you've created. I require my students to close down. If they do not, I will expel them as students. for their own health. IME, If you do not close down, you will lose valuable Qi which will simply sit in your aura and disperse. It is also possible that Qi can get stuck and cause problems. Closedown and self massage after training is the final and most important step. IME, if you are not going to close down, you are better off not practicing. IME, any teacher that does not require a closedown, does not completely understand their art.

my.02

 

Yeah thats exactly what I was wondering.

 

 

Thanks for the replies everyone.

[Spectrum]

without practice there are many natural openings and closings the body does everyday week month and year. phases perhaps, which are revealed through observation. with practice after observation a coordination of opening and closing events produces synquences of movement that are akin to a symphony in the body, so instead of experiencing small windows now and then, you coordinate those windows into the moments of focused practice in which the mind, body and spirit unify and are in harmony. In these states thinking becomes easier, movement effortless, and rest deep and peaceful.

[Ryan T.]

100% agree. If a person is too damn lazy to do the closing they should not even be practicing.

 

Riiiiiiiiight. Because nothing is better than something?

 

While I personally agree that closings are an integral piece of every set, I don't think we should throw the baby out with the bath water.

[Aetherous]

Thanks for the inspiration to add massage in, guys! I will stop being lazy!

 

Ya Mu...something I've been wondering for a while...what is the purpose of using those exact face and neck points in your massage (from your book)? Are they just areas where qi tends to stagnate? Do they correspond with certain channels which you want to open? Thanks.

[Vajrasattva]

in kap we rub hands till hot then massage whole body & then massage and bring awareness to lower dt.

 

as you do more stuff you learn to recollect all of yourself back to dan tien.

 

 

 

otherwise energy scatters and can get stuck

[lifeforce]

in kap we rub hands till hot then massage whole body & then massage and bring awareness to lower dt.

 

Yes, that's exactly what I do. I also put my palm on the position of the dantien, with my other palm on the back of the first one. Then i rub/rotate 36 times clockwise, then 36 counter-clockwise.

[Ya Mu]

Riiiiiiiiight. Because nothing is better than something?

 

While I personally agree that closings are an integral piece of every set, I don't think we should throw the baby out with the bath water.

Roll your eyes in ignorance if you wish. Stuck qi is one of the things posted on this board all the time. It usually goes something like this " I learned this really cool technique from a book (or a post on the internet) but I am experiencing pain/swollen penis/headache/ blah blah blah; oh - please help me..."

And all this is caused by ignorance of not understanding what a closedown procedure does as well as practicing bullshit instead of seeking a real teacher.

So yes - sometimes nothing is MUCH better than something.

 

Thanks for the inspiration to add massage in, guys! I will stop being lazy!

 

Ya Mu...something I've been wondering for a while...what is the purpose of using those exact face and neck points in your massage (from your book)? Are they just areas where qi tends to stagnate? Do they correspond with certain channels which you want to open? Thanks.

 

Yes and yes. It was found, though hand me down experience combined with Chinese medicine, that this particular approach is very effective. Other approaches can also be effective. But it is a matter of efficiency and efficacy.

[fiveelementtao]

Roll your eyes in ignorance if you wish. Stuck qi is one of the things posted on this board all the time. It usually goes something like this " I learned this really cool technique from a book (or a post on the internet) but I am experiencing pain/swollen penis/headache/ blah blah blah; oh - please help me..."

And all this is caused by ignorance of not understanding what a closedown procedure does as well as practicing bullshit instead of seeking a real teacher.

Yes I agree. Closedown is the easiest part of any practice. So, there is no reason to leave it out. It is also the most important because it is during the closedown that one actually harvests the energy they have created. For someone to imply that it is OK to skip the closedown for any reason, does not understand their practice or how Qi behaves. If any have doubts about this, next time you do a closedown, try and feel the energy actually penetrating deep into the tissues. You won't get that feeling of deep cleansing and transformation without the closedown. What's the point of planting the seeds, watering the plants, fertilizing if you are not going to harvest the crops? In a way, energy work without a closedown is like spending all year planting a crop and then simply choosing not to harvest them... What a waste of time and energy...

[Ryan T.]

So yes - sometimes nothing is MUCH better than something.

 

Saying "sometimes" is a little more ambiguous than your previous statement.

 

And I don't disagree that it is important to have closings, nor do I disagree that there CAN be negative affects of not using it when it is very much called for. But for most people practices like we are talking about are all a part of their life path. There will be wrong turns and sometimes some doubling back to where you began. But does that mean those people should have never started down that path? Do not many find these paths as a means to overcome or discard laziness or any other unwanted characteristic? And sometimes the only way, and I mean the ONLY way, that people will learn and become what they can be is through these foibles.

 

And I rarely roll my eyes in ignorance...just at absolutism!

[Ya Mu]

Saying "sometimes" is a little more ambiguous than your previous statement.

 

And I don't disagree that it is important to have closings, nor do I disagree that there CAN be negative affects of not using it when it is very much called for. But for most people practices like we are talking about are all a part of their life path. There will be wrong turns and sometimes some doubling back to where you began. But does that mean those people should have never started down that path? Do not many find these paths as a means to overcome or discard laziness or any other unwanted characteristic? And sometimes the only way, and I mean the ONLY way, that people will learn and become what they can be is through these foibles.

 

And I rarely roll my eyes in ignorance...just at absolutism!

Your message implies something is better than nothing. And I said that is not always so and gave examples.

 

Such as you and others have posted can give the reader the impression that it is OK not to do closings. At least, that is how I interpreted your post.

 

And absolutism? There is a right way of doing things and a wrong way. FAR FAR too many people are hurt by doing dumb things. So you think it is OK for people to practice the wrong way as long as they are "finding their path"? These type of things are easily avoided yet put way too many people way Off their path. A little correct guidance to beginners goes a long way towards finding a path. And apparently, if the many posters who have posted of these problems read a thread such as this and listened to some of the replies they will continue to have problems; is this OK because they are "finding their path"?

Yes, I am absolutely against anything that causes problems instead of solving them.

[Ryan T.]

Yes, I am absolutely against anything that causes problems instead of solving them.

 

My experiences seem to be different from that of yours. My experience is that many, I would even go so far as to say most, people initiate change in their lives because of pain/discomfort and the like that they have put themselves in. I would not wish these painful experiences on anyone. I just know that that is how most people are able make themselves more of what they would like to be...by seeing or feeling what they don't want to be.

 

And the sad reality is that most, even though you tell them and tell them, will not find a good teacher and will not follow the form or practice or whatever the way it is supposed to be practiced until they run into that pain or discomfort.

 

Does it need to happen? No.

 

Will it continue to happen? Yes.

 

We will have to agree to disagree on this. I think closings should be utilized. But many will not utilize the closings, they should still practice. They will get to where they need to be in spite of what is you or I might say or write.

 

The end is important in all things.

[Aetherous]

Yes and yes. It was found, though hand me down experience combined with Chinese medicine, that this particular approach is very effective. Other approaches can also be effective. But it is a matter of efficiency and efficacy.

 

Thanks for answering...will research more in depth in my books.

[Ya Mu]

My experiences seem to be different from that of yours. My experience is that many, I would even go so far as to say most, people initiate change in their lives because of pain/discomfort and the like that they have put themselves in. I would not wish these painful experiences on anyone. I just know that that is how most people are able make themselves more of what they would like to be...by seeing or feeling what they don't want to be.

 

And the sad reality is that most, even though you tell them and tell them, will not find a good teacher and will not follow the form or practice or whatever the way it is supposed to be practiced until they run into that pain or discomfort.

 

Does it need to happen? No.

 

Will it continue to happen? Yes.

 

We will have to agree to disagree on this. I think closings should be utilized. But many will not utilize the closings, they should still practice. They will get to where they need to be in spite of what is you or I might say or write.

 

The end is important in all things.

 

We do not need to agree to disagree as I agree with most of what you wrote here. I see it everyday. You are right, it will continue to happen. I just think it sucks, because a person shouldn't have to undergo it. I try to keep my replies based on helping newcomers to not get screwed up.

 

I have done medical qigong on countless numbers of people who just 'play" with energetics and mess themselves up and it is pretty disgusting. Read an internet post or read something in a book (anyone can write a book and say whatever they want to - doesn't have to be truth) and do an exercise one doesn't know anything about, add one part, drop another part; too many pay the consequences.

[Spectrum]

what can we observe as closing' in nature?

[topflight]

I have always had energy headaches with various practices like AYP and Kunlun and had to work hard to adjust my practice to avoid them.

 

... But it is a matter of efficiency and efficacy.

 

With Michael's closedown, I have not had energy headaches for the past 6 months except when I did not do it. It only takes about 7 minutes to do.

Edited December 31, 2009 by topflight

[mjjbecker]

It shouldn't be thought of as something 'separate'. Perhaps teachers have in the past 'separated' closing to emphasise how important it is. You don't always have to do every exercise in a set, but you DO need to do the closing-if you want to benefit, not waste your time and avoid blockages.

 

How to get people to do closing then? If you can't appeal to their intellect, just give the closing movements some fancy names and a nice story about how they are secret Shaolin/Wudang/Bon/Sufi/Alchemical/Altlantean/Alien, etc. exercises that will give them the power of a Sith lord to fire lightening bolts from their arses. Some people do like a good story.

 

That should do it.

[Ya Mu]

It shouldn't be thought of as something 'separate'. Perhaps teachers have in the past 'separated' closing to emphasise how important it is. You don't always have to do every exercise in a set, but you DO need to do the closing-if you want to benefit, not waste your time and avoid blockages.

 

How to get people to do closing then? If you can't appeal to their intellect, just give the closing movements some fancy names and a nice story about how they are secret Shaolin/Wudang/Bon/Sufi/Alchemical/Altlantean/Alien, etc. exercises that will give them the power of a Sith lord to fire lightening bolts from their arses. Some people do like a good story.

 

That should do it.

 

Yes, I always say "The single biggest mistake my students make is not doing the closing."

 

Instead I should say, "This part of the exercise system comes from a Shaolin monk who, while traveling to Wudang, met and was taught by a Sufi master who had discovered Atlantean secrets. While meditating on these secrets at the top of Wudang mountain his qi was so powerful that he was picked up by advanced beings from Sirius and shown these super secret exercises and warned that they were only for a select few."