The key to Taoist sex and retention

[Cameron]

anyone know what it is?

[Yoda]

damn, I thought you were going to post the answer.

 

My current answer is from Winn--that once you open the orbit, retention is easy but until you do that there isn't much gained by counting the days, trying to be the hero on willpower alone.

 

I'm making good strides on just a few minutes a few times a day with the orbit plus I'm reading Luk's Taoist Alchemy book for the first time about the orbit and it's relation to retention. Just starting the book, but it's killer. I can see why it was RJ's bible. We've all heard the basics, but it's great context and adds some nuggets here and there. The book claims to be able to not only reverse grey hair (I have a few) but actually to regrow teeth. That's something that RJ was never able to achieve through it, though. (I have a lost filling--I'll check it out)

 

So far in the book, Luk alludes to but doesn't expand upon the importance of quiet stillness practice to compliment the orbit practice and from what I've learned from AYP, the relationship is crucial.

 

At the moment, if I do sexually activated MCO and slurp my sperm to my brain right before going to sleep that isn't good for my dreams--they get overcharged. But I don't feel like sitting up to meditate, so I'm rubbing my tummy for a bit and practicing the healing sounds and hopefully that will take care of it.

[thaddeus]

Has anyone made any significant progress in this area and would like to share the steps they did personally?

[Yoda]

Has anyone made any significant progress in this area and would like to share the steps they did personally?

 

 

I've made this same cattle call to the masses on this and on the HT board. Nobody except for Ron Jeremy who no longer posts here seems to have the desire/ability to do long term retention. I go nuts around day 100 and take comfort in improving my orbit in the meantime.

 

Having said that, I think most folks here have made significant progress in some aspect of sexual practice. Any kind of consistent practice, even if it's all over the map, will pay off. I think the big thing that general chikung practice delivers is sensitivity to energy flows and levels and the ability to pull in energy more quickly and easily. Being able to handle higher levels of energy is something that also develops, but much more slowly imo.

[thaddeus]

Has anyone made any significant progress in this area and would like to share the steps they did personally?

I've made this same cattle call to the masses on this and on the HT board. Nobody except for Ron Jeremy who no longer posts here seems to have the desire/ability to do long term retention. I go nuts around day 100 and take comfort in improving my orbit in the meantime.

 

Having said that, I think most folks here have made significant progress in some aspect of sexual practice. Any kind of consistent practice, even if it's all over the map, will pay off. I think the big thing that general chikung practice delivers is sensitivity to energy flows and levels and the ability to pull in energy more quickly and easily. Being able to handle higher levels of energy is something that also develops, but much more slowly imo.

I hear ya. I'm just wondering if anyone 'grew a tooth' or turned their hair back to the original color or became young again..

For me, I'm not formally practicing a 'technique' for transmutation of the 'generative energy'...still waiting for that master to show up. I've gained great control and watch the frequency of letting go. Basically I noticed I only catch a cold around the times I let go and my knees do feel weaker for a day or too (based on martial arts practice). But I'm still waiting for the teacher to show me how to steam those sperm into vapor and become 20 years old again. I'm playing around with stuff, but definately need a some direction. All the text say 'must be taught by a master'...so..where is that master???

Was wondering if anyone here has done it.

T

[Yoda]

I think there are so few masters b/c the various esoteric traditions have been too stingy and ignorant about effective practices. Definitely give advancedyogapractices.com a read through. His zillions of tips on spinal breathing and its relationship to sexuality, meditation, and stretching have really breathed new meaning to mco for me. Condensed into one sentence: sit on a sock to steam your sperm.

 

A goal for 2006 is to open my orbit to the point I can consistently feel the energy travel through the entire circuit.

[thaddeus]

I think there are so few masters b/c the various esoteric traditions have been too stingy and ignorant about effective practices. Definitely give advancedyogapractices.com a read through. His zillions of tips on spinal breathing and its relationship to sexuality, meditation, and stretching have really breathed new meaning to mco for me. Condensed into one sentence: sit on a sock to steam your sperm.

 

A goal for 2006 is to open my orbit to the point I can consistently feel the energy travel through the entire circuit.

 

sit on a sock...interesting..because traditionally some of the yogic postures to learn mula bandha require you to sit on your heel. I'm thinking the sock must encourage a gentle 'sucking up' sensation at the same time providing a rolfing type pressure to loosen up the fascia so energy can flow better. It probably also 'shapes' the area into the required position.

I'll definately check that site out. I've been spending quite a bit of time working this area to loosen, strengthen and gain control.

I would like to hear more on this topic..

T

[Yoda]

the heel is the traditional thing, but you can keep your feet flat on the ground if you use a sock if you are into that sort of thing. Also, you can better control the amount and contour of stimulation with a sock or a cloth or something.

 

I've only been doing AYP for a few months, so it's new territory for me but seems promising so far. Yogani claims that the key to altruism is siddhasana/sock sitting. It makes bliss bubble up to the point that the practitioner has enough bliss and can then change perspective from needing things from the world to giving things to the world.

 

Quite a claim! I'll cross that bridge when I get there! Apparently, it takes many months to acclimate to so that meditation isn't distracted by the power of it but is rather enhanced. I do some practice with it and some without at the moment.

[GrandTrinity]

I started Luks book recently too and find it very enlightening...very much requies attention to detail read...

 

Anyways, I think the key to retention is being able to have the channels open and good virtue, it wont work if you loose your mind playing video games or watching porn. Retention will work if you stay grounded and open...I have a couple girls interested in doing tantra but I dont really want to do very very much unless I have learned all the formulas well and stuff...also I think the key is that the girls practice, dual cultivation is key, they need to be doing the healing sounds at least! ...makes it much better anyways, no?

[affenbrot]

Edited January 19, 2006 by affenbrot

[thaddeus]

[affenbrot]

Hi Affenbrot, a few things to consider...I found myself feeling very similar things. My usual interest in sex seemed to transform into something I called more 'heart centered'..i found myself wanting to reach out and connect more on an emotional basis..for example instead of seeing a woman as a sex object, i found myself wondering about how she came to be where she is, wanting to feel a connection with her etc..hard to explain in words, but it seemed the basic drive transformed.

But something was nagging at me. Although this was a nice feeling, I felt something was off. I was feeling depressed too. I wanted that aspect back..I was mourning it's loss. To me a strong libido is an indicator how alive you are--or how much ability you have to manifest in life. How you handle that libido is one aspect of our training. We can fritter it away or we can channel it.

Make a long story short, I am aware that in modern times there are many chemicals we are exposed to in our foods, environment and cleansing products that mimic the female hormone estrogen. One way to combat this is to eat tons of cruciferous vegetables and/or take a supplement called DIM. The research *seems* to indicate that DIM will lower a hormone called E2 that can be very elevated in men especially as we age and result in a loss of libido, not necessarily function as you described.

I took it for a few days, and feel that crazy feeling again, but curiously, I kept my 'heart centered' feelings too, so it's very cool.

I'm not big on making unsubstantiated claims, so your mileage may vary. I'm not aware of any serious studies that show definately DIM lowers E2 in humans..and I never got my hormone levels tested to see if that was really the situation...it could all be coincidence too...but do some research on that.

Having no sex drive to me seems like something you should probably look into.

T

 

good thoughts, thanks for sharing!

 

a.

[Yoda]

flipping around that Luk book, and siddhasana is in it too. He says to sit on a piece of wood with cotton over it so chi doesn't run out of your ass while meditating. I can grok that. He also says to use a clothespin over the nose so the chi doesn't escape out of the top hatch. Any thoughts on that one?

[Mitch]

He says to sit on a piece of wood with cotton over it so chi doesn't run out of your ass while meditating.

You could do a bandha lock on the perneium using your ankle or ball of cloth, but I think this tends to lead to chi congestion in the perineum, which gets congested anyway. I prefer leading chi into the central channel by meditating on the crown and root chakra.

 

1. Place attention on the root chakra until you can feel the chi collecting there, warmth, coolness, tingling, etc.

2. Do the same for the crown chakra.

 

3. Bring energy through the root chakra into the central channel up to the crown chakra, moving the chi up and down the channel to clear out blockages. Use your own judgement for how many times to do this.

4. Do the same for the crown chakra.

 

5. Bring chi continuously through the the root and crown chakra into the central channel. Although you are directing chi through the top and bottom chakras the main focus should be on the 2 energies collecting in the central channel. I visualize the central channel as a long florescent tube (like in ceiling light fixtures) which gets brighter and more intense the more I focus on it.

 

The 2 chakras balance heaven and earth energies. When I collect energy at the root chakra I feel a pleasurable sensation. I also feel a pleasurable sensation at the top of head too. When I balance and charge the central channel with the 2 energies my body feels more "solid" and my mind and emotions become clearer and my energy body becomes more powerful and easier to sense. Basically I'm collecting energy in the central channel rather than the DT.

 

6. If you have the intention to always collect energy this way, even when you are not setting time apart to do this, it will become a subconscious habit which will let you increase your chi 24/7 .

 

Let me know if these instructions need to be clarified or elaborated on.

[Yoda]

cool drill, nice articulation too.

[RiverSnake]

Bump, lots of good info here

[Small Fur]

anyone know what it is?

 

Yes, if by Taoist sex practices you mean partly about how to achieve continuous orgasms in partnership without touch but through pure chi exchange and at multiple levels, for extended durations.

 

As for retention, it is a matter of deep awareness and discipline- of learning to sort out your emotions and sensations from the visceral processes of the CNS (Central Nervous System)- at least, that is a simplification of it in part. But as with this and MCO, what are you trying to achieve? What are you doing it for? I feel that men need to be very cautious about retention and MCO as the power of the seminal energy can have dangerous effects if not utilized correctly.

 

(I have to say that I am dismayed the information was published without deeper insights into its contexts and regard for the importance of containing the powers of these intimacies- in part because it has led to these kinds of confusions and also a flippancy around an extremely powerful and also beautiful cultivation: the sexual, like many energies, but perhaps especially so, is a form of spiritual 'magic' so to speak).

 

I don't really consider these practices and ways a secret, but rather a very natural potential within all of us made possible through a very deep and refined understanding of our body and spirit's movements and relationships.

 

Being that these are sacred practices, I feel it is wise if approached with a sincerity and devotion greater than just a desire to achieve a self-involved aim.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Small Fur

[RiverSnake]

Yes, if by Taoist sex practices you mean partly about how to achieve continuous orgasms in partnership without touch but through pure chi exchange and at multiple levels, for extended durations.

 

 

Could you perhaps elaborate a bit on this?

[Small Fur]

Could you perhaps elaborate a bit on this?

 

Sure, here is a brief elaboration:

 

1) The universe is made out of chi. There are many forms that chi can take. The body is a field. This field is made out of a dense form of chi. When you understand the body's energetic composition, you can affect the field of chi without gross and direct touch. (This is a similar principle to, though different execution of how qi gong can be used to affect healing, for instance.) Hence, you can have sex by sharing sexual energy without touch, movement or imagination, but simply through moving the energy field via the connection of yi and zhi or what is also respectively called "intention" and "will".

 

2) The body is actually composed of various layers. In Aryuveda (an ancient Indian medicine system very similar to Chinese medicine), these bodies are known as 'sheaths'- the gross anatomy or physical body being only one of the sheaths. Hence, you can experience orgasm at various levels of the system, or various planes within the body's fields (simultaneously or discretely). The orgasm is now no longer localized to only the physical body, but other subtle layers of the body and ultimately this leads to an experience of the universe.

 

3) Most people are accustomed to physical anatomical orgasms- these are fairly "crude" or "base": usually localized to an area (eg. the lower region), brief in duration (a few seconds), with a single (high or low) explosive force. When the vessel is attuned, the quality of the orgasm is enhanced: it is continuous (lasting minutes to hours), feels more as a long wave (rather than a single short burst), and permeates not only the whole physical body, but also includes the other layers/aspects of existence. This is sometimes also known as "Valley Orgasm".

 

In addition, because there is a deep alignment between partners who are able to share this, the orgasms always occur at the exact same time for both partners without having to consciously regulate or 'time' the process together.

 

Finally, because the orgasm travels further and deeper, it bears a more 'universal' quality of existence. Sex and orgasm with the same person now becomes incredibly different every time, each time, even after years with only the same person: you never experience the exact same quality of sex, self or other- it is infinite in its potential, variety, and overall experience. This energy can now be used for transformative processes.

 

Basically, what is orgasm and sex at some point evolves from experience of concrete energy to abstract energies- these forces then can meld between the polarities of form and formless, creating a new experience; one that could not even be termed so typically as 'sex' or 'orgasm' but something quiet entirely different- it resolves back so something entirely pure and primordial yet also essential and transcendent.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Small Fur

[Creation]

OldGreen,

 

If you liked this thread, there is a good chance you will like this one too:

http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4028

[Cameron]

Wow, that was a pretty old thread

Edited February 4, 2012 by Cameron

[Small Fur]

Sure, here is a brief elaboration:

 

1) The universe is made out of chi. There are many forms that chi can take. The body is a field. This field is made out of a dense form of chi. When you understand the body's energetic composition, you can affect the field of chi without gross and direct touch. (This is a similar principle to, though different execution of how qi gong can be used to affect healing, for instance.) Hence, you can have sex by sharing sexual energy without touch, movement or imagination, but simply through moving the energy field via the connection of yi and zhi or what is also respectively called "intention" and "will".

 

2) The body is actually composed of various layers. In Aryuveda (an ancient Indian medicine system very similar to Chinese medicine), these bodies are known as 'sheaths'- the gross anatomy or physical body being only one of the sheaths. Hence, you can experience orgasm at various levels of the system, or various planes within the body's fields (simultaneously or discretely). The orgasm is now no longer localized to only the physical body, but other subtle layers of the body and ultimately this leads to an experience of the universe.

 

3) Most people are accustomed to physical anatomical orgasms- these are fairly "crude" or "base": usually localized to an area (eg. the lower region), brief in duration (a few seconds), with a single (high or low) explosive force. When the vessel is attuned, the quality of the orgasm is enhanced: it is continuous (lasting minutes to hours), feels more as a long wave (rather than a single short burst), and permeates not only the whole physical body, but also includes the other layers/aspects of existence. This is sometimes also known as "Valley Orgasm".

 

In addition, because there is a deep alignment between partners who are able to share this, the orgasms always occur at the exact same time for both partners without having to consciously regulate or 'time' the process together.

 

Finally, because the orgasm travels further and deeper, it bears a more 'universal' quality of existence. Sex and orgasm with the same person now becomes incredibly different every time, each time, even after years with only the same person: you never experience the exact same quality of sex, self or other- it is infinite in its potential, variety, and overall experience. This energy can now be used for transformative processes.

 

Basically, what is orgasm and sex at some point evolves from experience of concrete energy to abstract energies- these forces then can meld between the polarities of form and formless, creating a new experience; one that could not even be termed so typically as 'sex' or 'orgasm' but something quiet entirely different- it resolves back so something entirely pure and primordial yet also essential and transcendent.

 

 

It feels like there is something that I need to add to my own post.

 

The way I stated the previous post is very straight forward in that it avoids (ha- so much as a theme such as "sex without touching that produces multiple long orgasms that lead into the universe" can be viewed) much of the deeper spiritual and mystical implications. Perhaps the most essential one being that at this 'level' of relationship/communication/exchange, the act of sex becomes a path to a form of self-realization. Yes, there are also 'mystical' things that happen along the way, but that is periphery to what is essential.

 

I am not sure why I had written the post that way, but perhaps it is to start off with the simplistic nature of just the foundational concepts and because I felt that this was what was partly being asked. Further to strip it down to something very core and grounded, touches on the essential and takes the egoic factors of blinding excitement, misguided interest, and grasping desire out of the equation- to allow those more dedicated and serious to have a glimpse of the pathway inward.

 

In reality, the mechanics I describe here are just minutae. It would be a misunderstanding to read what I have written and think what is wonderful and important lies exclusively in the gift of a fantastical heightened sexual experience. The process of deep cultivation to come to these sorts of experiences cannot originate from such desires and will actually be hindered by such desires.

 

What is important in the superficiality of what I have written (like most of my posts to this forum) lies in the implied. Like all pure and sincere energy practices, it is not a matter of even the energy itself or doing a 'thing', but the quality of the heart of the practitioner and their sincerity in devotion to existence that helps to make such loving awareness possible, and ultimately, the deep awareness that enables a return to our original 'self'.

 

So to answer the original posted question: ultimately there is no secret and yes, there is a key, but what it opens to, isn't a single 'thing' (whether this be contained or expressed via the powerful acts of sex or meditation or whathaveyou) it becomes a way of life, a completely transformed understanding of yourself and existence- full of every potential, risk, misery and joy. Who here is ready?

 

The answer is obvious and simple- like the act of understanding silence. To keep it secret is a game. But that this sexual 'mystery' like silence is allowed to remain unseen is given when the intention does not touch directly into the path of truth. All the answers to these great cultivation practices are here: right here and explicitly so. What keeps us from knowing lies not in the lack of information to make it possible but in the lack of true self-awareness and this can only come from a truly sincere heart.

Edited February 4, 2012 by Small Fur

[Small Fur]

Hi Small Fur. Thank you for taking the time to elucidate your thoughts. I appreciate it!

 

*cups a bowl of warm, richly spiced soup and hands it to you* ;-) thank you, rainbowvein!

[Rishi Das]

It feels like there is something that I need to add to my own post.

 

Simply put and very beautiful, the follow up also added a quality that I definitely enjoyed. From personal experience, what your saying is definite truth, and for that matter, very well produced which definitely made me smile; so thank you.

 

All in all, I guess one could refer to it as "sex," never really thought of it as such but it definitely allows me to understand tantra on a whole new level; so thank you again. From my experience, it just penetrates so naturally, so much deeper and so much more divine; to call it sex seems to me, almost disrespectful. When one is truly dealing with universal energy there is ultimately no place to hide, the divine pervades your every cell and the process of self realization begins regardless if one is ready or not. To not go about the process with a deeply rooted respect seems pretty faulty to me.

 

Coming from my little egoic point of view, most are not sincere and do not long for understanding of these very simple yet very profound concepts, therefore the western mind instead clings to the new age fad for belonging and finds fascination in looking to analyze, categorize, and understand the "mystery;" "flippancy" is really a great way to articulate it. To me, the problem lies in the fact that once open, Pandora's box doesn't shut and what's inside might not be that fluffy cute little puppy one thought they might find. While the sincere may bask in the bliss, the faulty may very well be squirming through in terror, and as the saying goes, "one who plays with fire, is bound to get burned," point being one should stop and read the disclaimers before pulling out the crowbar.

 

From what i've gathered and come to conclude: pure sincerity, true devotion, and a deeply profound respect for such sacred matters are a must when "cultivating the way."

 

That's just my 2c anyways

 

EDIT: I appreciate the bump OldGreen, some really great stuff was added to this one.

Edited February 4, 2012 by don_vedo

[RiverSnake]

Bump again. Good stuff. I understand a lot more of what is written here coming back a couple years later.

 

My 2 cents, Peace

Edited December 15, 2013 by OldChi