The psychological evolutionary basis of retention and reclusiveness

[Non]

The psychological evolutionary basis of retention and reclusiveness

 

One of the foundations of health, maintenance and behaviour according to psychologists is the endocrine system which includes the testes and the sexual function and psychological system.

 

If there is a sexual dysfunction or disorder it can cause unhealthy behavioural disorders, general unhealthiness and psychological disorders. If there is a psychological disorder there is sexual disorder, and general unhealthiness. General unhealthiness, etc. etc. etc.

 

For some time now humanity's basis on success was to be violent against each other. Thus, primitively only the most aggressive and "evil" could mate.

 

Then we started to become smarter, evolve, and we came together, but we still have some people that think the old way, in fact perhaps the majority still do. Being that this world is so fed up anyway, we bred each other this way.

 

The world was fed up so we needed to become more spiritual. Being so good meant that the men got no sex. We had to become spiritual though that also meant that we had to become good to each other. So men became recluses ie cavemen.

 

Thus we created The Monk. The monk was Good. But he got no sex, so realizing that he would go mad if he didn't have sex he had to literally kill his sex drive and sexual function such that the body and psychology no longer depended on how many times he got laid, so he sought inner alchemy, this evolved basically from cutting off the penis to transmutation and transformation of the sexual essence. It was rather powerful but of course it was a solo cultivation practice. Dual cultivation is more powerful but does humanity realize this?

 

*incomplete*

[zazaza]

The bliss that can be derived from pleasures

such as sex is a reflection of the pure light.

 

People love pleasures but once they see the pure

light instead of it's reflection, sex, like all other pleasures,

is recognized as unfullfilling - compared to the pure light.

 

As long as one attaches himself to the reflections,

as long as one attaches himself to impurity,

one can not see the full extent of THE PURE.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if complete retention is indeed

unhealthy for the body, because the body is programmed

to reproduce after all.

 

I guess it can't hurt to have sex for the above mentioned reason,

but one who finds sex makes him more (or less) happy

than hitting his toe with a hammer is still trapped in duality & samsara

because he has not yet perfected his vision.

 

In losing, much is gained,

and in gaining, much is lost.

Edited December 31, 2009 by zazaza

[Andrei]

Non, you have no idea what you are talking about, If you really want to know read Gurdjieff, but I am not expecting you to understand much of it, you are just 19 years old so, you must let your life experiences to gather, maybe later in your life, maybe after 30 you will begin to understand... until then quit philosophy and live your life in reality, not on web.... sorry but imagining things is not the same to living them....

[voidisyinyang]

Non -- I was discussing this with my brother-in-law over the past few days. So basically humans evolved from a combination of bonobos (pygmy chimps) and chimpanzees. Chimpanzees have warfare from "border patrol" males killing all the males of the bordering troops. Also male chimps RAPE the females -- if the female does not provide sex when the male provides meat to the female. Sometimes the female is eating fruit and doesn't want the meat for sex deal!! Bonobos, in contrast, are the opposite. The females are in control and use sex to solve all social tension. The males have sex all the time but RARELY EJACULATE.

 

So humans evolved from a combination of that -- Bushmen humans are actually genetically different than modern humans. There was a catastrophic draught in Africa around 50,000 years ago and the Bushmen separated off the rest of humans. The latter humans used technology to spread into Asia -- some came back into Africa -- and then those same humans went back into Asia as the "modern humans."

 

Now back to the spread of technology as modern humanity. Female chimps were the first to use "human" technology. Female chimps use SPEARS to hunt animals because by using technology the female chimps avoid the male RAPE through the "meat for sex" deal. So the use of technology is really a means for the females to protect themselves from male rape.

 

Why do the males want to rape? Because male ejaculation causes a trigger of the STRESS sympathetic nervous system. So male bonobos have much less stress because they ejaculate only rarely yet constantly activate their parasympathetic nervous systems -- RELAXATION. The Bushmen males -- ALL OF THE MALES -- must train to learn this same skill of sublimation and IONIZATION through synchronized dance and breathing techniques. We can see the start of this in Bonobo males who dance and sing in synchronization with other males -- that's the most "aggressive" the male bonobos get.

 

The Bushmen human culture is based on love and trance healing through the male sublimation of the sex energy -- and it's 90% of human history! It's the original human culture and the main human culture from 80,000 BCE up to 10,000 BCE. As long as there is expansion of spatial territory for more natural resources then technology can be used -- again for females to avoid male rape! This is what "civilization" is really about -- a safe home for females to raise their young. But the problem is this system of technology for protection does not address the CAUSE of male violence. Whereas the trance synchronization of sex sublimation practiced by the bonobos and Bushmen did address this original cause.

 

So there was a secret lineage passing on this Bushmen knowledge -- through the Dravidian culture of Africans that spread throughout Europe and Asia -- and then through various secret society schools -- but then monotheistic religion developed based on male domestication of animals. Hunting was no longer the male practice and now it was thought that Nature could be contained -- the female energy was not considered necessary. This started around 10,000 BCE by what is called the "symbolic revolution" by Dr. Jacques Cauvin. So then the tantric tradition switched more into left-brain mind yoga of the religious priests (the Brahmins, the Zoroastrians, the Buddhists, etc.)

 

So when people get into Eastern religion they often still practice the same patriarchial mind yoga as what the Western priests practice -- this is not real celibacy -- because there's no real "ionization" since the power of the body is from the lower body will power of the kidney energy. So people do "mind yoga" meditation through Buddhism or Vedanta philosophy -- but essentially it's no different than Christian prayer techniques. It's helpful but really not significantly different.

 

The full-lotus, on the other hand, ENSURES results -- other physical techniques work but not as efficiently and still it's easy to talk about this stuff -- talk is cheap - and people are easily deceived since all of religion has been based on talk -- through sermons, etc. If someone is sitting in full-lotus there's no way it's an hallucination or false claim.

 

The psychological evolutionary basis of retention and reclusiveness

 

One of the foundations of health, maintenance and behaviour according to psychologists is the endocrine system which includes the testes and the sexual function and psychological system.

 

If there is a sexual dysfunction or disorder it can cause unhealthy behavioural disorders, general unhealthiness and psychological disorders. If there is a psychological disorder there is sexual disorder, and general unhealthiness. General unhealthiness, etc. etc. etc.

 

For some time now humanity's basis on success was to be violent against each other. Thus, primitively only the most aggressive and "evil" could mate.

 

Then we started to become smarter, evolve, and we came together, but we still have some people that think the old way, in fact perhaps the majority still do. Being that this world is so fed up anyway, we bred each other this way.

 

The world was fed up so we needed to become more spiritual. Being so good meant that the men got no sex. We had to become spiritual though that also meant that we had to become good to each other. So men became recluses ie cavemen.

 

Thus we created The Monk. The monk was Good. But he got no sex, so realizing that he would go mad if he didn't have sex he had to literally kill his sex drive and sexual function such that the body and psychology no longer depended on how many times he got laid, so he sought inner alchemy, this evolved basically from cutting off the penis to transmutation and transformation of the sexual essence. It was rather powerful but of course it was a solo cultivation practice. Dual cultivation is more powerful but does humanity realize this?

 

*incomplete*

Edited December 31, 2009 by drewhempel

[Non]

The bliss that can be derived from pleasures

such as sex is a reflection of the pure light.

 

People love pleasures but once they see the pure

light instead of it's reflection, sex, like all other pleasures,

is recognized as unfullfilling - compared to the pure light.

 

As long as one attaches himself to the reflections,

as long as one attaches himself to impurity,

one can not see the full extent of THE PURE.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if complete retention is indeed

unhealthy for the body, because the body is programmed

to reproduce after all.

 

I guess it can't hurt to have sex for the above mentioned reason,

but one who finds sex makes him more (or less) happy

than hitting his toe with a hammer is still trapped in duality & samsara

because he has not yet perfected his vision.

 

 

yes true... but in many cases... who would be more successful in perfecting his vision? One who's life is complicated, or one who's simple?

[Andrei]

So humans evolved from a combination of that -- Bushmen humans are actually genetically different than modern humans. There was a catastrophic draught in Africa around 50,000 years ago and the Bushmen separated off the rest of humans. The latter humans used technology to spread into Asia -- some came back into Africa -- and then those same humans went back into Asia as the "modern humans."

 

And what if modern humans were genetically engineered for the purpose of hosting a certain kind of 'souls' into the frame of an 'ape'? And how do you explain that the 'humans' have the most developed sex organs compared to their size, and also the most active sexuality compared to any other animal on earth?

[zazaza]

Edited December 31, 2009 by zazaza

[Non]

Non -- I was discussing this with my brother-in-law over the past few days. So basically humans evolved from a combination of bonobos (pygmy chimps) and chimpanzees. Chimpanzees have warfare from "border patrol" males killing all the males of the bordering troops. Also male chimps RAPE the females -- if the female does not provide sex when the male provides meat to the female. Sometimes the female is eating fruit and doesn't want the meat for sex deal!! Bonobos, in contrast, are the opposite. The females are in control and use sex to solve all social tension. The males have sex all the time but RARELY EJACULATE.

 

So humans evolved from a combination of that -- Bushmen humans are actually genetically different than modern humans. There was a catastrophic draught in Africa around 50,000 years ago and the Bushmen separated off the rest of humans. The latter humans used technology to spread into Asia -- some came back into Africa -- and then those same humans went back into Asia as the "modern humans."

 

Now back to the spread of technology as modern humanity. Female chimps were the first to use "human" technology. Female chimps use SPEARS to hunt animals because by using technology the female chimps avoid the male RAPE through the "meat for sex" deal. So the use of technology is really a means for the females to protect themselves from male rape.

 

Why do the males want to rape? Because male ejaculation causes a trigger of the STRESS sympathetic nervous system. So male bonobos have much less stress because they ejaculate only rarely yet constantly activate their parasympathetic nervous systems -- RELAXATION. The Bushmen males -- ALL OF THE MALES -- must train to learn this same skill of sublimation and IONIZATION through synchronized dance and breathing techniques. We can see the start of this in Bonobo males who dance and sing in synchronization with other males -- that's the most "aggressive" the male bonobos get.

 

The Bushmen human culture is based on love and trance healing through the male sublimation of the sex energy -- and it's 90% of human history! It's the original human culture and the main human culture from 80,000 BCE up to 10,000 BCE. As long as there is expansion of spatial territory for more natural resources then technology can be used -- again for females to avoid male rape! This is what "civilization" is really about -- a safe home for females to raise their young. But the problem is this system of technology for protection does not address the CAUSE of male violence. Whereas the trance synchronization of sex sublimation practiced by the bonobos and Bushmen did address this original cause.

 

So there was a secret lineage passing on this Bushmen knowledge -- through the Dravidian culture of Africans that spread throughout Europe and Asia -- and then through various secret society schools -- but then monotheistic religion developed based on male domestication of animals. Hunting was no longer the male practice and now it was thought that Nature could be contained -- the female energy was not considered necessary. This started around 10,000 BCE by what is called the "symbolic revolution" by Dr. Jacques Cauvin. So then the tantric tradition switched more into left-brain mind yoga of the religious priests (the Brahmins, the Zoroastrians, the Buddhists, etc.)

 

So when people get into Eastern religion they often still practice the same patriarchial mind yoga as what the Western priests practice -- this is not real celibacy -- because there's no real "ionization" since the power of the body is from the lower body will power of the kidney energy. So people do "mind yoga" meditation through Buddhism or Vedanta philosophy -- but essentially it's no different than Christian prayer techniques. It's helpful but really not significantly different.

 

The full-lotus, on the other hand, ENSURES results -- other physical techniques work but not as efficiently and still it's easy to talk about this stuff -- talk is cheap - and people are easily deceived since all of religion has been based on talk -- through sermons, etc. If someone is sitting in full-lotus there's no way it's an hallucination or false claim.

 

so there's no jealousy in the bonobo chimps?

[ShaktiMama]

I think you just need be a little more precise, Drew. You really confuse me with your trains of thought sometimes. Some times it seems like non-sequitur after non-sequitir when you write. Maybe it may be me being just plain dumb and I am sorry. I really am trying to follow your lines of thinking.

 

Humans and chimpanzees evolved from a common ancestor. Not humans evolving from chimpanzees.

http://humanorigins.si.edu/ha/primate.html

 

Some even refute that and say that human origin is non terran.

 

This could make for a different arc for development of weapons technology and the development of gender relationships.

 

Where do you get this info about the Bushmen?.Those I know who dance with them and are learning their healing ways in Africa talk of the primacy of the females and never mention this rape angle. Women are the superior shamans and healers. My friends/students who are studying the bushmen tradition will tell you that around the fire there is a lot of sexual teasing and play between males and females. Men and women are equal sharers. One of my students has actually lived with them.

 

Premarital sex is not discouraged and is actually a part of every day life. Why then is their rape except for the expression of violence and dominance when sexuality is not repressed? There is no need for male sublimation of sex energy. The shaking dances around the fire can feel very sexual but are transmuted to spirit expression which leads to ecstasy being shared between partners. So reports back my student and his teacher.

 

http://voicelab9.wordpress.com/non-western...bushmen-tribes/

 

Rape is not about sex for the humans.

http://www.csun.edu/~psy453/rapmot_y.htm

 

The other view: rape for sex

http://www.csun.edu/~psy453/rapmot_n.htm

 

 

Dancing and shaking with the Bushmen is to be involved in bliss, ecstasy, and kundalini (n/om). Trance comes after the shaking not before. The Bushmen show up sometimes in spirit when we do shaktipat or teach. Students have commented on this to us.

 

http://shakingmedicine.com/pdf/batesonian2.pdf

 

I do remember vaguely my student telling me that the Bushmen used to tell stories to researchers...make things up unless the researchers actually came and lived as Bushmen with them. This would fit in with their worship of the Trickster.

 

I can't follow the rest of what you write because it is based on your understanding of Bushman and chimpanzee and human evolution which doesnt align to what I know from readings and personal experience.

 

 

 

 

Non -- I was discussing this with my brother-in-law over the past few days. So basically humans evolved from a combination of bonobos (pygmy chimps) and chimpanzees. Chimpanzees have warfare from "border patrol" males killing all the males of the bordering troops. Also male chimps RAPE the females -- if the female does not provide sex when the male provides meat to the female. Sometimes the female is eating fruit and doesn't want the meat for sex deal!! Bonobos, in contrast, are the opposite. The females are in control and use sex to solve all social tension. The males have sex all the time but RARELY EJACULATE.

 

So humans evolved from a combination of that -- Bushmen humans are actually genetically different than modern humans. There was a catastrophic draught in Africa around 50,000 years ago and the Bushmen separated off the rest of humans. The latter humans used technology to spread into Asia -- some came back into Africa -- and then those same humans went back into Asia as the "modern humans."

 

Now back to the spread of technology as modern humanity. Female chimps were the first to use "human" technology. Female chimps use SPEARS to hunt animals because by using technology the female chimps avoid the male RAPE through the "meat for sex" deal. So the use of technology is really a means for the females to protect themselves from male rape.

 

Why do the males want to rape? Because male ejaculation causes a trigger of the STRESS sympathetic nervous system. So male bonobos have much less stress because they ejaculate only rarely yet constantly activate their parasympathetic nervous systems -- RELAXATION. The Bushmen males -- ALL OF THE MALES -- must train to learn this same skill of sublimation and IONIZATION through synchronized dance and breathing techniques. We can see the start of this in Bonobo males who dance and sing in synchronization with other males -- that's the most "aggressive" the male bonobos get.

 

The Bushmen human culture is based on love and trance healing through the male sublimation of the sex energy -- and it's 90% of human history! It's the original human culture and the main human culture from 80,000 BCE up to 10,000 BCE. As long as there is expansion of spatial territory for more natural resources then technology can be used -- again for females to avoid male rape! This is what "civilization" is really about -- a safe home for females to raise their young. But the problem is this system of technology for protection does not address the CAUSE of male violence. Whereas the trance synchronization of sex sublimation practiced by the bonobos and Bushmen did address this original cause.

 

So there was a secret lineage passing on this Bushmen knowledge -- through the Dravidian culture of Africans that spread throughout Europe and Asia -- and then through various secret society schools -- but then monotheistic religion developed based on male domestication of animals. Hunting was no longer the male practice and now it was thought that Nature could be contained -- the female energy was not considered necessary. This started around 10,000 BCE by what is called the "symbolic revolution" by Dr. Jacques Cauvin. So then the tantric tradition switched more into left-brain mind yoga of the religious priests (the Brahmins, the Zoroastrians, the Buddhists, etc.)

 

So when people get into Eastern religion they often still practice the same patriarchial mind yoga as what the Western priests practice -- this is not real celibacy -- because there's no real "ionization" since the power of the body is from the lower body will power of the kidney energy. So people do "mind yoga" meditation through Buddhism or Vedanta philosophy -- but essentially it's no different than Christian prayer techniques. It's helpful but really not significantly different.

 

The full-lotus, on the other hand, ENSURES results -- other physical techniques work but not as efficiently and still it's easy to talk about this stuff -- talk is cheap - and people are easily deceived since all of religion has been based on talk -- through sermons, etc. If someone is sitting in full-lotus there's no way it's an hallucination or false claim.

[voidisyinyang]

Thanks for the links ShaktiMama. On the evolutionary lineage I was building on Frans de Waal -- this is from a review of his Bonobo book:

 

"Humans share over 98 percent of their genetic material with the bonobo and the chimpanzee--is it possible that the peaceable bonobo has retained traits of our common ancestor that we find hard to recognize in ourselves?"

 

On the rape I was saying the chimpanzees rape and that modern humans are more like chimpanzees whereas Bushmen are more like Bonobos.

 

Sorry if I confused you! haha.

 

As for what you write on the Bushmen -- that is in agreement with my own Bushmen research as well. The male Bushmen initiation before sex is a month long period of fasting and dancing and shakti transmission.

 

 

 

I think you just need be a little more precise, Drew. You really confuse me with your trains of thought sometimes. Some times it seems like non-sequitur after non-sequitir when you write. Maybe it may be me being just plain dumb and I am sorry. I really am trying to follow your lines of thinking.

 

Humans and chimpanzees evolved from a common ancestor. Not humans evolving from chimpanzees.

http://humanorigins.si.edu/ha/primate.html

 

Some even refute that and say that human origin is non terran.

 

This could make for a different arc for development of weapons technology and the development of gender relationships.

 

Where do you get this info about the Bushmen?.Those I know who dance with them and are learning their healing ways in Africa talk of the primacy of the females and never mention this rape angle. Women are the superior shamans and healers. My friends/students who are studying the bushmen tradition will tell you that around the fire there is a lot of sexual teasing and play between males and females. Men and women are equal sharers. One of my students has actually lived with them.

 

Premarital sex is not discouraged and is actually a part of every day life. Why then is their rape except for the expression of violence and dominance when sexuality is not repressed? There is no need for male sublimation of sex energy. The shaking dances around the fire can feel very sexual but are transmuted to spirit expression which leads to ecstasy being shared between partners. So reports back my student and his teacher.

 

http://voicelab9.wordpress.com/non-western...bushmen-tribes/

 

Rape is not about sex for the humans.

http://www.csun.edu/~psy453/rapmot_y.htm

 

The other view: rape for sex

http://www.csun.edu/~psy453/rapmot_n.htm

Dancing and shaking with the Bushmen is to be involved in bliss, ecstasy, and kundalini (n/om). Trance comes after the shaking not before. The Bushmen show up sometimes in spirit when we do shaktipat or teach. Students have commented on this to us.

 

http://shakingmedicine.com/pdf/batesonian2.pdf

 

I do remember vaguely my student telling me that the Bushmen used to tell stories to researchers...make things up unless the researchers actually came and lived as Bushmen with them. This would fit in with their worship of the Trickster.

 

I can't follow the rest of what you write because it is based on your understanding of Bushman and chimpanzee and human evolution which doesnt align to what I know from readings and personal experience.