causes for pain

[Magda]

Your perspective on this is refreshing. And you are correct. If you force relaxation, you are not relaxing. You are manipulating. Many who think they are doing relaxation are doing manipulation. They may experience many altered states, and experience many pleasant effects, yet they are not really opening up to the universal energy that is residing within them. So it's really not a change of the mind per se. It is instead a change relating to disindentifying from the mind, which is problem-oriented, and welcoming awareness.

I find that a very difficult topic. Moreso because you can't really know that you're doing things correctly, not in the beginning. I've been told in past that I think too much whenever I bring up this topic and that I should let go of the mind! In some sense it's true, but that goes for practicing, afterwards you can think a little, I'm sure, if only to decide that nothing went terribly awry.

 

I think it's not really possible to avoid all effects and altered states, it's only possible to keep a neutral attitude towards them. Not believing in everything you see or hear, neither dismissing it to the point of consciously trying to suppress it. And because you can't tell what you experience from right or wrong in the beginning, it's even logical not to dwell on its value at all. It's useless, after all, if you can't know and have no means to tell. That creates a peaceful attitude for me, of letting anything happen on its own and not caring for what is going on much, not being focused on it.

 

That reminds of the Kunlun and demons thread, so many people talking about their unnatural experiences there. Now maybe my perception is skewed and it's ok, but I don't think it's justified. A lot of time has to pass till you can tell something about such things for sure, before that they're nothing but mysterious illusions.