Tell me what offends you, and I will tell you who you are

[goldisheavy]

This seems to be a good topic that's properly ticklish while at the same time, very good, and I would say, essential for contemplation.

 

 

What does it mean to be offended?

 

It means to have one of your values violated.

 

So, let's check out some possibilities.

 

For example, let's say you draw a funny cartoon of Mohammed fucking a goat. Who is offended by this, and what does that offense say about such person?

 

Well, the offended people are conservative Muslims. And what does it say about them? What value is violated by such cartoon? It's a superficial value! A value of appearance! A value for proper decorum! That's what it really is. Conservative Muslims value decorum so much, they are willing to kill for it. They value decorum so much, they are willing to restrict the freedom of speech to protect it.

 

Valuing decorum too much, incidentally, is precisely what idolatry is! So it is very ironic when Muslims get upset over cartoons. It's like they have really missed the boat on idolatry and the whole point behind it, which is not to take appearances to be your God. See, to these conservative Muslims, making a funny picture of Mohammed is the same as insulting the real Mohammed! So the entire admonition not to get hung up on images went right over their stupid little heads.

 

Ask yourselves, how valuable is decorum to you? What are you willing to give up for it? Would you give up your life for decorum? Would you dedicate your life to the upholding of decorum? Would you make decorum the center of your life?

 

Let's take another example of this. This one is also pretty common. Suppose a person walks around the street with tattoos, piercings, and a strange haircut. Some people feel insulted by this. Why? Because the value of the decorum of "proper" personal appearance appears to be visually violated.

 

What if you reach out your hand to do a handshake, but the other person refuses to shake your hand. You might get insulted. If you get insulted by this action, what does that tell us about your values? What's being violated here? A broken handshake violates a ritual of greeting. So if this is very upsetting, given that the other person did nothing else you'd find disagreeable, it means you value rituals greatly.

 

What if you are the kind of person who doesn't judge the book by its cover? Would non-standard decorum be upsetting to you? Would you perceive it as an insult? Think about it.

 

And then, let's say you go around saying you value cogent reasoning, but then you never get insulted by any written or spoken argument. What does this say? It says you are lying! That's what. It means that while you put on airs about putting a high value on cogent reasoning, when people violate that value in communication with you, you don't get upset because you don't feel any value of yours has been violated.

 

See? Sometimes it's good to be insulted. But be careful about what it is you allow yourself to be insulted by. Make sure that whatever insults you is something you truly value! If you get insulted by stuff you claim not to value, and vice versa, if you don't get insulted by the stuff you do claim to value, you need to re-examine yourself. You are being dishonest before thyself.

Edited January 2, 2010 by goldisheavy

[Non]

being offended means that you have a weakness?

[goldisheavy]

being offended means that you have a weakness?

 

Can being offended also be a strength?

 

When is it a weakness and when is it a strength? Maybe being offended over silly things is a weakness, but being offended over things that honestly matter is a strength?

 

Something worth considering, especially when you realize that the possibility of never feeling offended is practically zero. If you're going to be offended anyway at some point, let it be worth it. Be offended over something that actually matters.

[Marblehead]

being offended means that you have a weakness?

 

Well Damn!!!! A thread-stopping post before I even had the opportunity to say anything.

 

I remain silent.

 

Peace & Love!

[ShaktiMama]

Well Damn!!!! A thread-stopping post before I even had the opportunity to say anything.

 

I remain silent.

 

Peace & Love!

 

Tell me what delights you and I will tell you who you are.

[Marblehead]

Tell me what delights you and I will tell you who you are.

 

Thanks Sweetheart! That brightened my day.

 

One thing that delights me is causing people to laugh or smile even if it is a joke at my own expense.

 

Peace & Love!

[glooper23]

Let's say a guy named Bob values honesty, and someone lies to him. Bob does not get upset because while he values honesty, he has developed the skill of accepting reality. He will react in some way to the lie - for example, he may decide to reach out to his more honest friends instead. But is it not possible for him to do all of this without feeling the negativity that can come with being "offended"?

[taijilee]

being offended means that you have a weakness?

 

indeed it is a weakness, and that weakness comes in the form of the ego.

[soaring crane]

Tell me what offends you

 

Supercilious sacks of sanctimony. Who does that make me?

 

 

Tell me what delights you and I will tell you who you are.

 

Much better. Thank you, Mama

 

My answer: Sitting quietly on the floor next to the piano with my eyes closed while my daughter works out a tough spot in a new song and being there when it clicks for her. I think that's about as high as it gets for me these days

[Aetherous]

My answer: Sitting quietly on the floor next to the piano with my eyes closed while my daughter works out a tough spot in a new song and being there when it clicks for her. I think that's about as high as it gets for me these days smile.gif

 

Really nice.

[C T]

Let's say a guy named Bob values honesty, and someone lies to him. Bob does not get upset because while he values honesty, he has developed the skill of accepting reality. He will react in some way to the lie - for example, he may decide to reach out to his more honest friends instead. But is it not possible for him to do all of this without feeling the negativity that can come with being "offended"?

Good point.

 

Seeing things through this way is to have transcendent insight, according to the Paramitas, a set of teachings

on transcending our habitual and often neurotic conditioned responses to things that happen around us.

 

For those interested, here's an explanation of the Six Paramitas as taught in the Buddhist suttas:

 

http://www.abrc.org.au/sixparamitas.htm

[ShaktiMama]

Supercilious sacks of sanctimony. Who does that make me?

Much better. Thank you, Mama

 

My answer: Sitting quietly on the floor next to the piano with my eyes closed while my daughter works out a tough spot in a new song and being there when it clicks for her. I think that's about as high as it gets for me these days

 

how peaceful that feels...thank you for sharing that....

[goldisheavy]

Let's say a guy named Bob values honesty, and someone lies to him. Bob does not get upset because while he values honesty, he has developed the skill of accepting reality.

 

This simply means Bob doesn't value honesty that much, in the grand scheme of things. In your example, Bob values what you call "reality" more than honesty. In your example, it is also apparent that Bob values the feeling of not being offended -- which means that in the off chance Bob does get offended, he will fucking explode spectacularly -- because not only will he be angry at the original offense, he will also be angry at the fact that he feels offended, and he will lose his mind in a fit of rage, due to being unable to maintain his emotions at a smooth level.

 

As for me, I like being offended from time to time, especially if I am offended for the right reason, or by a good looking person who smells good. In the worst case, I hope whoever offends me has a menacing-looking beard, for their own good.

Edited January 2, 2010 by goldisheavy

[ShaktiMama]

This simply means Bob doesn't value honesty that much, in the grand scheme of things. In your example, Bob values what you call "reality" more than honesty. In your example, it is also apparent that Bob values the feeling of not being offended -- which means that in the off chance Bob does get offended, he will fucking explode spectacularly -- because not only will he be angry at the original offense, he will also be angry at the fact that he feels offended, and he will lose his mind in a fit of rage, due to being unable to maintain his emotions at a smooth level.

 

 

curious how you know bob values one more than the other. why is it apparent? isn't this just speculation about what might bob do? not everyone goes into a fit of rage when they discover something is offensive. instead might not he go within and examine where this feeling came from?

 

maybe he just says to himself, "interesting...i felt a little offended by that...I wonder why? that certainly is amusing." and he laughs at himself. maybe bob values contemplation and amusement at himself when he screws up rather than losing his mind in a fit of rage... I know I do.

 

just speaking from my own experiences of how silly my being offended is...

[goldisheavy]

curious how you know bob values one more than the other. why is it apparent? isn't this just speculation about what might bob do? not everyone goes into a fit of rage when they discover something is offensive. instead might not he go within and examine where this feeling came from?

 

It depends on how offended the person is. The more offended the person is, the less likely one will have the presence of mind necessary to examine that feeling.

 

maybe he just says to himself, "interesting...i felt a little offended by that...I wonder why? that certainly is amusing." and he laughs at himself. maybe bob values contemplation and amusement at himself when he screws up rather than losing his mind in a fit of rage... I know I do.

 

just speaking from my own experiences of how silly my being offended is...

 

Well, if things offend you only a little, then you don't care much about anything. That's close to being apathetic. Apathetic people don't and can't get offended much.

Edited January 2, 2010 by goldisheavy

[ShaktiMama]

It depends on how offended the person is. The more offended the person is, the less likely one will have the presence of mind necessary to examine that feeling.

Well, if things offend you only a little, then you don't care much about anything. That's close to being apathetic. Apathetic people don't and can't get offended much.

 

wow...you really have me all figured out, don't you? *teasing*

 

apathy and equanimity are not the same.... i am surprised you did not point that out in your discussion of being offended.....

 

so how would you compare righteous indignation with being offended?

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

I find strawberry jam highly offensive.

[goldisheavy]

wow...you really have me all figured out, don't you? *teasing*

 

apathy and equanimity are not the same.... i am surprised you did not point that out in your discussion of being offended.....

 

The difference is in degree, but not in kind. Equanimity with regard to the relative world means that you care a small to moderate amount about relative matters. Or in other words, your relative and non-transcendent values have a small to moderate amount of worth to you. Incidentally this is kind of what the spirit of renunciation is about too.

 

Transcendent values are tricky, because you can care a lot about transcendent values, but since they are transcendent, nothing within the relative realm has the power to violate those values. When I talk about getting offended in this thread, I am mostly talking about relative values and not things like "the perfection of wisdom", which you can be absolutely hung up on and yet never get upset over it getting violated, since it's a transcendent value that cannot get violated in the first place.

 

Yes, so maybe I should have said "Well, if things offend you only a little, then you don't care much about anything within the relative realm."

 

so how would you compare righteous indignation with being offended?

 

It's the same thing. The difference is that righteous indignation is more gnarly, tubular, fly and well, more righteous. Other than that little fact, it's all the same.

Edited January 3, 2010 by goldisheavy

[Non]

If one feels offended, it is a lack of love. It is a lack of compassion, it is an insecurity. A fear. If you feel offended, look within, because most likely it stems from a belief that you cannot deal with what you're presented with.

 

It's hard not to feel offended sometimes though isn't it?

 

I always thought.. that buddha could never feel offended, because he has no insecurity, and being without insecurity and being self loving, he is infinitely compassionate, thus would never feel offended because he has fix all his inner demons..

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

 

If one feels offended, it is a lack of love.

 

 

It can't be that non, I love strawberry jam, I just feel that it's not really been reciprocated.

[goldisheavy]

If you feel offended, look within, because most likely it stems from a belief that you cannot deal with what you're presented with.

 

It could also be that you don't want to deal with what is perceived to be a disruption of something important.

 

It's hard not to feel offended sometimes though isn't it?

 

It depends on how much you care about the relative matters. If you care more than a moderate amount, yes, it's hard.

 

I always thought.. that buddha could never feel offended, because he has no insecurity, and being without insecurity and being self loving, he is infinitely compassionate, thus would never feel offended because he has fix all his inner demons..

 

Maybe. Buddha was not as perfect as you think.

 

Here's a Sutta that describes Buddha losing patience with the monks and nuns and taking a break from them in the forest:

 

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn....4.05.irel.html

Edited January 3, 2010 by goldisheavy

[ShaktiMama]

[Vajrasattva]

Pickles, Mustard, mayo , Nutella Sandwich.

[Taomeow]

Schopenhauer asserted that offense can only come from someone you think of as higher than you -- he gave an example of a donkey kicking you which you might find unpleasant but not offensive, and suggested that you don't find it offensive because you don't think of the donkey as a creature higher than you.

 

If we follow his logic, people who don't ever get offended believe they are higher than everybody else.

 

If you never take offense, according to Schopenhauer it makes you a grandeur maniac.

Edited January 3, 2010 by Taomeow

[agharta]

Schopenhauer asserted that offense can only come from someone you think of as higher than you -- he gave an example of a donkey kicking you which you might find unpleasant but not offensive, and suggested that you don't find it offensive because you don't think of the donkey as a creature higher than you.

 

If we follow his logic, people who don't ever get offended believe they are higher than everybody else.

 

If you never take offense, according to Schopenhauer it makes you a grandeur maniac.