telling the truth

[Lozen]

So what do you think? Direct honesty or no?

 

I always thought I was a huge proponent of it and would like to know the truth, but I've been wondering about this lately. Sometimes you don't need to hear the truth, right?

 

I guess I like it when people speak to me directly because I'm sensitive energetically, so if somebody is even the least bit perturbed with me, I can feel it anyway, so they may as well just tell me what it is anyway so we can discuss it, right?

 

On the other hand, sometimes some truths are just unnecessary. Like when someone you break up with tells you that s/he always thought your poetry sucked. Stuff like that.

 

So I guess it's like, to be totally honest, I kinda wanna know the truth, but not all of it, or something. Maybe I want it sugarcoated. Which reminds me of Natalie Goldberg writing about her zen teacher, who would say things like, "I am sorry for you. I do not offer you candy." She'd approach him with a problem and say, "No candy?" and he'd say, "No candy."

 

Of course, this is also the same roshi that had been lecturing about death for a while, and then the zen center decided to have this big fundraiser open house party thing, and invited all these potential donors, and then the roshi was told to lecture, and he started with, "We are all going to die."

 

I would say his timing is inappropriate.

 

I guess I want the truth broken up into small bite-size increments, and maybe the parts that I can't do anything about be left out? Sort of like the difference between being told that you need to lose some weight and being told that someone is physically repulsed by you. I suppose that would be a matter of tact, and it's not entirely what I'm describing. How to explain different layers... Let's see... It's like the difference between someone you're dating saying, "We need to work on our communication style" and the same person saying, "We need to work on our communication style, or I'm gonna dump your ass, and I'm already looking at the girl next door." While the latter two may be perfectly true, there's no point in bringing them up because it's possible that the person WILL work on their communication style. Does that make sense? Or in another example, I had a friend who told her crush that she had a crush on him, and he said, "Well, I'm really not attracted to you at all, but we can still have sex, if you want to go get yourself tested." She of course told him she had way too much a sense of self-preservation for that... and of course they weren't friends anymore, but I think that they would have been had he simply said, "Well, I'm not all about that, but I don't mind friends with benefits." You know? It's just how you WORD things and how MUCH you say. And then she wouldn't have been upset at his implications that she had AIDS or something, which she didn't need to know he thought that unless she'd accepted his (sleazy) proposition. How do we skirt around these issues. Like my friend, who's dating guys she met online, and they'll ask her if she wants to get coffee or a drink or go on a hike. Is she really supposed to say, "Well, since I've never met you before, can we just meet somewhere in public that doesn't involve alcohol or secluded locations?"

 

And of course at work (hypothetically of course) I'd always tell my boss she should let me know directly if I'm doing something wrong, because I want to know, but what I don't tell her is that I want to know so it won't look like I'm doing that around her, not because I give a shit about our company. But then if we really took this honesty thing to an extreme, everyone would answer job interview questions quite differently. "I don't really care about your company, and I'm not planning on keeping this job." And the job, "We may downsize next year, and we want someone like you who we can pay less than they're worth until then."

 

And then there's the whole ethical question. I got in a car accident that was my fault, compensated the victim to his satisfaction (even though he didn't have insurance and I could've gotten away with it), but I don't think he's going to sign the civil compromise papers because he's a flake. I also know he won't show up to court. Is it unethical to plead not guilty when I know I did it?

 

I guess part of this whole dilemma is that I feel like so many of our problems are based on the fact that all communication is pretty flawed, and that nobody will know exactly what someone else is thinking. I have a friend who gets extremely upset if I misinterpret things he says even slightly. Like, he'll say things like, "You said I MIGHT mean that, which means you think there's a POSSIBILITY I would do it, but there IS no possibility, because I would never mean that. How could you say that?" I remember my response was something like, "Why do you care what I think?" And I told him that in the past he'd implied that I had done several things I knew he was wrong about, but I didn;t care, because I knew I was doing the right thing, and his perception didn't matter. So it's like maybe once your ego gets out of the way, what other people think doesn't matter at all. And yet... it's just hard for us sensitive ones to walk around knowing that people we like or even love and respect think certain things about us that aren't even true, and there's nothing we can do, and one way they can let us know is by telling us the truth, but since we can't change their opinions anyway, maybe it's better not to know at all.

 

Thoughts?

[Cameron]

The problem is most everyone has there own version of truth

 

As far as my personal truth, what I consider important. Well, alot of the things I consider important are probably somewhat wierd to some people so it doesn't make sense to make a big deal about it. Like if I am having dinner with a group of friends. One is a Christian who beleives it all comes down to your realationship with Jesus. Another is a Vegan who thinks it all comes down to not hurting the animals and living off of natural and organiically grown food. One thinks God doesn't exist and it comes down to having a sense of personal courage and not relying on diety for answers. So should I say " Your all deluded it's all about doing qigong and if your a man not spilling your semen!".

 

Everyone sort of has there own style and beleifs and stuff. So, here I am, Mr. Pseudo Tao guy who likes qigong and dabbles in zen and alchemy and maybe a little yoga. I am still just scratching the surface of these practices. Sure I have had my share of cool experiences but I don't think it warrants me saying to someone who doesn't beleive in God that definetly God exists and I have felt her presense. Or tell my Vegan family member that I am almost 100% sure you need atleast some animal protien to be very healthy or atleast strong.

 

If your talking about more personal realtionships, a lover or boyfriend or whatever, it probably would need to get more "real" as the realationship matures. In the people that I have seen who got divorced it seems they just arent on the same page anymore. I don't know if it is about honesty so much as just not growing together and sharing. In more intimate realationships like a marriage it seems to me you sort of have to be open to commincating your feeliings with the other person and sharing your life goals and stuff.

 

And the other person is ideally very supportive of those goals. Like a friends's current girlfirend and I were getting dinner and it just seemed like everything he was saying she was disagreeing with or tearing down. Sure she was being honest but do you really want to be with someone who is always tearing you down? I sure don't.

 

But by the same token probably it is still good she is being honest because unless he is really stupid that will tell him she is not the one to be with long term. Unless he wants to slow torture himself. I want to be around people that are honest with me and critical but in a helpful way. You can critisize someone and tear down there self esteem or confidence or make comments that are helpful and constructive. Lately, I try to give some positive feedback if I have to say something negative. Like, if your really messy or disorganized maybe if you take 1 day a week to clean your house or office or whatever that would help. Or just always put the dishes in the drawer when your done eating instead of being a dick who just goes "your a fucking pig!" or whatever. Sort of be helpful with the honesty if possible.

 

Treat others as you would like to be treated that whole thing.

Edited January 21, 2006 by Cameron

[affenbrot]

i personally am more the guy who is maneuvering around sensible issues in

an intimate comunication, because I fear that telling the truth straightforward will hurt the other or will let the other one stop loving me. Doesn't work most of the time though..

Honest communication plus finding the right words might really be the trick.

 

There is this guy who is teaching radical honesty:

http://www.radicalhonesty.com/

 

what do you think?

 

affenbrot

[kipster]

So what do you think? Direct honesty or no?

 

I always thought I was a huge proponent of it and would like to know the truth, but I've been wondering about this lately. Sometimes you don't need to hear the truth, right?

 

I guess I like it when people speak to me directly because I'm sensitive energetically, so if somebody is even the least bit perturbed with me, I can feel it anyway, so they may as well just tell me what it is anyway so we can discuss it, right?

 

On the other hand, sometimes some truths are just unnecessary. Like when someone you break up with tells you that s/he always thought your poetry sucked. Stuff like that.

 

So I guess it's like, to be totally honest, I kinda wanna know the truth, but not all of it, or something. Maybe I want it sugarcoated. Which reminds me of Natalie Goldberg writing about her zen teacher, who would say things like, "I am sorry for you. I do not offer you candy." She'd approach him with a problem and say, "No candy?" and he'd say, "No candy."

 

Of course, this is also the same roshi that had been lecturing about death for a while, and then the zen center decided to have this big fundraiser open house party thing, and invited all these potential donors, and then the roshi was told to lecture, and he started with, "We are all going to die."

 

I would say his timing is inappropriate.

 

I guess I want the truth broken up into small bite-size increments, and maybe the parts that I can't do anything about be left out? Sort of like the difference between being told that you need to lose some weight and being told that someone is physically repulsed by you. I suppose that would be a matter of tact, and it's not entirely what I'm describing. How to explain different layers... Let's see... It's like the difference between someone you're dating saying, "We need to work on our communication style" and the same person saying, "We need to work on our communication style, or I'm gonna dump your ass, and I'm already looking at the girl next door." While the latter two may be perfectly true, there's no point in bringing them up because it's possible that the person WILL work on their communication style. Does that make sense? Or in another example, I had a friend who told her crush that she had a crush on him, and he said, "Well, I'm really not attracted to you at all, but we can still have sex, if you want to go get yourself tested." She of course told him she had way too much a sense of self-preservation for that... and of course they weren't friends anymore, but I think that they would have been had he simply said, "Well, I'm not all about that, but I don't mind friends with benefits." You know? It's just how you WORD things and how MUCH you say. And then she wouldn't have been upset at his implications that she had AIDS or something, which she didn't need to know he thought that unless she'd accepted his (sleazy) proposition. How do we skirt around these issues. Like my friend, who's dating guys she met online, and they'll ask her if she wants to get coffee or a drink or go on a hike. Is she really supposed to say, "Well, since I've never met you before, can we just meet somewhere in public that doesn't involve alcohol or secluded locations?"

 

And of course at work (hypothetically of course) I'd always tell my boss she should let me know directly if I'm doing something wrong, because I want to know, but what I don't tell her is that I want to know so it won't look like I'm doing that around her, not because I give a shit about our company. But then if we really took this honesty thing to an extreme, everyone would answer job interview questions quite differently. "I don't really care about your company, and I'm not planning on keeping this job." And the job, "We may downsize next year, and we want someone like you who we can pay less than they're worth until then."

 

And then there's the whole ethical question. I got in a car accident that was my fault, compensated the victim to his satisfaction (even though he didn't have insurance and I could've gotten away with it), but I don't think he's going to sign the civil compromise papers because he's a flake. I also know he won't show up to court. Is it unethical to plead not guilty when I know I did it?

 

I guess part of this whole dilemma is that I feel like so many of our problems are based on the fact that all communication is pretty flawed, and that nobody will know exactly what someone else is thinking. I have a friend who gets extremely upset if I misinterpret things he says even slightly. Like, he'll say things like, "You said I MIGHT mean that, which means you think there's a POSSIBILITY I would do it, but there IS no possibility, because I would never mean that. How could you say that?" I remember my response was something like, "Why do you care what I think?" And I told him that in the past he'd implied that I had done several things I knew he was wrong about, but I didn;t care, because I knew I was doing the right thing, and his perception didn't matter. So it's like maybe once your ego gets out of the way, what other people think doesn't matter at all. And yet... it's just hard for us sensitive ones to walk around knowing that people we like or even love and respect think certain things about us that aren't even true, and there's nothing we can do, and one way they can let us know is by telling us the truth, but since we can't change their opinions anyway, maybe it's better not to know at all.

 

Thoughts?

[kipster]

Lozen,

 

My first bit of truth is that I don't exactly know how to navigate this sight (though any 8 year old could), so I am hoping that this reply actually gets posted.

 

My second bit of truth is that I am glad you are inquiring into the nature of truth. I had a friend who suggested that any time I find myself in turmoil that I ask myself, "what am I defending?" And when I did this, I found that I was invariably defending my personality, that concept that I construe as myself. The more I looked into the truth, the more I viewed it as my friend. I found that it did not give me license to dump "my truth" on others because most often "my truth" was simply something I was projecting onto another. So, for me, a major portal to truth became acceptance: acceptance of myself, my situation and others. Nobody had to be anything other than they were, and this provided me the space to act more kindly and speak in a way that was genuinely more life-supporting. I didn't find myself becoming a door mat or passive in any sense, just more efficient and kind and, in a way, more fearless because I started defending my personality less and less.

 

There is a great quote from the course in miracles: "If I defend myself, I am attacked." I have found this to be true because the personality seems to be an illusion that I struggle to maintain, and if I see it as vulnerable than I always have to defend it from change (i.e. life) and from anything that I see as a threat to it.

 

Another take on this whole truth thing is ably presented in Byron Katie's book, Loving What Is. In it, she shows how the proper inquiry to anything, i.e. the application of truth to something results in freedom and kindness. I highly reccoment the book.

 

Now let's see if my reply gets to you.

 

Kipster

 

 

 

So what do you think? Direct honesty or no?

 

I always thought I was a huge proponent of it and would like to know the truth, but I've been wondering about this lately. Sometimes you don't need to hear the truth, right?

 

I guess I like it when people speak to me directly because I'm sensitive energetically, so if somebody is even the least bit perturbed with me, I can feel it anyway, so they may as well just tell me what it is anyway so we can discuss it, right?

 

On the other hand, sometimes some truths are just unnecessary. Like when someone you break up with tells you that s/he always thought your poetry sucked. Stuff like that.

 

So I guess it's like, to be totally honest, I kinda wanna know the truth, but not all of it, or something. Maybe I want it sugarcoated. Which reminds me of Natalie Goldberg writing about her zen teacher, who would say things like, "I am sorry for you. I do not offer you candy." She'd approach him with a problem and say, "No candy?" and he'd say, "No candy."

 

Of course, this is also the same roshi that had been lecturing about death for a while, and then the zen center decided to have this big fundraiser open house party thing, and invited all these potential donors, and then the roshi was told to lecture, and he started with, "We are all going to die."

 

I would say his timing is inappropriate.

 

I guess I want the truth broken up into small bite-size increments, and maybe the parts that I can't do anything about be left out? Sort of like the difference between being told that you need to lose some weight and being told that someone is physically repulsed by you. I suppose that would be a matter of tact, and it's not entirely what I'm describing. How to explain different layers... Let's see... It's like the difference between someone you're dating saying, "We need to work on our communication style" and the same person saying, "We need to work on our communication style, or I'm gonna dump your ass, and I'm already looking at the girl next door." While the latter two may be perfectly true, there's no point in bringing them up because it's possible that the person WILL work on their communication style. Does that make sense? Or in another example, I had a friend who told her crush that she had a crush on him, and he said, "Well, I'm really not attracted to you at all, but we can still have sex, if you want to go get yourself tested." She of course told him she had way too much a sense of self-preservation for that... and of course they weren't friends anymore, but I think that they would have been had he simply said, "Well, I'm not all about that, but I don't mind friends with benefits." You know? It's just how you WORD things and how MUCH you say. And then she wouldn't have been upset at his implications that she had AIDS or something, which she didn't need to know he thought that unless she'd accepted his (sleazy) proposition. How do we skirt around these issues. Like my friend, who's dating guys she met online, and they'll ask her if she wants to get coffee or a drink or go on a hike. Is she really supposed to say, "Well, since I've never met you before, can we just meet somewhere in public that doesn't involve alcohol or secluded locations?"

 

And of course at work (hypothetically of course) I'd always tell my boss she should let me know directly if I'm doing something wrong, because I want to know, but what I don't tell her is that I want to know so it won't look like I'm doing that around her, not because I give a shit about our company. But then if we really took this honesty thing to an extreme, everyone would answer job interview questions quite differently. "I don't really care about your company, and I'm not planning on keeping this job." And the job, "We may downsize next year, and we want someone like you who we can pay less than they're worth until then."

 

And then there's the whole ethical question. I got in a car accident that was my fault, compensated the victim to his satisfaction (even though he didn't have insurance and I could've gotten away with it), but I don't think he's going to sign the civil compromise papers because he's a flake. I also know he won't show up to court. Is it unethical to plead not guilty when I know I did it?

 

I guess part of this whole dilemma is that I feel like so many of our problems are based on the fact that all communication is pretty flawed, and that nobody will know exactly what someone else is thinking. I have a friend who gets extremely upset if I misinterpret things he says even slightly. Like, he'll say things like, "You said I MIGHT mean that, which means you think there's a POSSIBILITY I would do it, but there IS no possibility, because I would never mean that. How could you say that?" I remember my response was something like, "Why do you care what I think?" And I told him that in the past he'd implied that I had done several things I knew he was wrong about, but I didn;t care, because I knew I was doing the right thing, and his perception didn't matter. So it's like maybe once your ego gets out of the way, what other people think doesn't matter at all. And yet... it's just hard for us sensitive ones to walk around knowing that people we like or even love and respect think certain things about us that aren't even true, and there's nothing we can do, and one way they can let us know is by telling us the truth, but since we can't change their opinions anyway, maybe it's better not to know at all.

 

Thoughts?

[Yoda]

If I were *really* honest about the world and the people around me I would have nothing but the absolute, highest praises to sing and I would have a shitload of energy too. I would light up the night.

[thelerner]

The TRUTH? You can't Handle the TRUTH!

........................

 

 

Personally I think the truth should most often be tempered by compassion. Unless there's not a whole lot of time or you're really pissed off.

 

Michael

[thaddeus]

i personally am more the guy who is maneuvering around sensible issues in

an intimate comunication, because I fear that telling the truth straightforward will hurt the other or will let the other one stop loving me. Doesn't work most of the time though..

Honest communication plus finding the right words might really be the trick.

 

There is this guy who is teaching radical honesty:

http://www.radicalhonesty.com/

 

what do you think?

 

affenbrot

 

I couldn't read his stuff. The guy curses so much it detracts from his message. Red Flag...Obviously the people around him aren't being radically honest with him to tell him that he can't write or communicate worth a dime. Big turnoff.

T

[thaddeus]

So what do you think? Direct honesty or no?

<snip>

I guess part of this whole dilemma is that I feel like so many of our problems are based on the fact that all communication is pretty flawed, and that nobody will know exactly what someone else is thinking. I have a friend who gets extremely upset if I misinterpret things he says even slightly. Like, he'll say things like, "You said I MIGHT mean that, which means you think there's a POSSIBILITY I would do it, but there IS no possibility, because I would never mean that. How could you say that?" I remember my response was something like, "Why do you care what I think?" And I told him that in the past he'd implied that I had done several things I knew he was wrong about, but I didn;t care, because I knew I was doing the right thing, and his perception didn't matter. So it's like maybe once your ego gets out of the way, what other people think doesn't matter at all. And yet... it's just hard for us sensitive ones to walk around knowing that people we like or even love and respect think certain things about us that aren't even true, and there's nothing we can do, and one way they can let us know is by telling us the truth, but since we can't change their opinions anyway, maybe it's better not to know at all.

 

Thoughts?

 

I think you summed it up in the last paragraph. Everyone around us is wounded (except for a few awakened beings), and extremely sensitve and protecting our wounds...re: Mastery of Love, by Ruiz. Someone joked 'you can't handle the truth'..there's alot of wisdom in that. Basically we can't. The reality is that people are scared and hurt. We can't stomp around telling the truth because it makes US feel better because it hurts people. We manipulate the truth in order to survive. People who are brutally honest will end up alone or worse, dead. That's not good for survival. People who think being brutally honest is the best for everyone force themselves to be hypocrites.

T

[freeform]

.

Edited October 23, 2019 by freeform

[Lozen]

Well I suppose the question would be, "Do you think I'm weak?" not, "Am I weak?"

 

As far as your example of wanting your girlfriend to change clothes, that is so similar to what they teach in non-violent communication, and I think it's pretty lame, to think that people should change what they do based on what you "need." Isn't that ego?

[thaddeus]

I'm sorry to do it, but I'll have to complicate matters a little: "there is no such thing as truth".

 

Let's say you're a gym instructor and you get this weedy guy in class and you tell him "you're weak" - although a little rude, it's not so unreasonable... but then imagine this same weedy guy going home and picking up his 4 year-old kid to give her a kiss and spin her about for a laugh - she says "dad you're so strong!". Who is right? Who's telling the truth? It would be very arogant to think that since you're a gym instructor you somehow have a greater grasp of reality than this guy's daughter. All 'truth' is relative the weedy guy might not be as strong as the instructor, but he seems incredibly strong to his daughter - Thinking in terms of truth causes huge amounts of problems for humanity on all levels.

<snip>

I realise it may seem that my oppinion on 'truth' makes no real sense 'in the real world' - and you may think that some things really are true - so there must be such a thing as truth. I know sometimes do just that, but then I think deeper into it - "what does thinking 'x is true' give me?" usually I find some form of psychological/energetic block right there, and it usually turns out that I'm trying to protect some fragile aspect of my ego - so i do something about it.

Good thoughts. However, alot of your examples are about opinions. Everyone's got opinions (you know the old saying). Of course there is truth...'did you steal that apple?" yes or no..Not to quote Miguel Ruiz again, but if you realize everyone is involved in their own drama and illusion, you won't put too much stock into what anyone says. I think that's what you're getting it..it's all an illusion. If I say you are fat, you may or may not be, it's more about my issues--that comes from me. That's why I'm slowly but surely not taking anything personally anymore. When most people talk, they are railing against their own illusions. I think realizing that is one step towards more freedom.

T

[DaoWaDiddy]

I'm sorry to do it, but I'll have to complicate matters a little: "there is no such thing as truth".

 

Let's say you're a gym instructor and you get this weedy guy in class and you tell him "you're weak" - although a little rude, it's not so unreasonable... but then imagine this same weedy guy going home and picking up his 4 year-old kid to give her a kiss and spin her about for a laugh - she says "dad you're so strong!". Who is right? Who's telling the truth? It would be very arogant to think that since you're a gym instructor you somehow have a greater grasp of reality than this guy's daughter. All 'truth' is relative the weedy guy might not be as strong as the instructor, but he seems incredibly strong to his daughter - Thinking in terms of truth causes huge amounts of problems for humanity on all levels.

I agree with your post. I also wanted to draw another interesting and often useful distinction:

 

"grounded" - verifiable in physical reality

versus

"ungrounded" - opinion, judgement, nominalization

 

For example, if you tell the weedy guy above ("weedy" - ungrounded opinion) that "you're weak" that is ungrounded because it is a judgement of his relative strength compared to some unstated standard. However, if you told the guy who is 6'2" tall and weighs 120 lbs that he was able to bench press 70lbs twice that would be a grounded statement.

 

"That is an ugly jacket" - ungrounded

"That jacket has 4 buttons" - grounded

 

"You're in my space" - ungrounded

"When you breathe I can feel air moving on my face" - grounded

 

It can be interesting (and a bit appalling [ungrounded]) to use this filter to examine arguments, political speech, the newspaper, etc. It's also interesting to be in the middle of an argument, etc. and then switch from the ungrounded statements that you are probably using to physically verifiable grounded statement - it tends to take the steam out and bring all participants back closer to the here and now.

 

If that result matches your outcome, this can be a useful strategy.

 

------------------

 

Not to quote Miguel Ruiz again, but if you realize everyone is involved in their own drama and illusion, you won't put too much stock into what anyone says. I think that's what you're getting it..it's all an illusion. If I say you are fat, you may or may not be, it's more about my issues--that comes from me. That's why I'm slowly but surely not taking anything personally anymore. When most people talk, they are railing against their own illusions. I think realizing that is one step towards more freedom.

Very useful - this is what I aspire to and sometimes remember. Thanks for the reminder

 

And thanks to Lozen for an interesting topic.

 

All the best,

Charlie

[Lozen]

what do you think?

 

I like the concept but I'm not so into the "beyond good and evil" thing.

[kipster]

If I were *really* honest about the world and the people around me I would have nothing but the absolute, highest praises to sing and I would have a shitload of energy too. I would light up the night.

 

I love this answer. I sometimes experience that we are more connected than we are separate. This experience is invariably accompanied by feelings of love and appreciation. It is as if love is the experience of truth flowing through awareness.

[freeform]

.

Edited October 23, 2019 by freeform

[thaddeus]

 

In the apple stealing example - imagine a homless kid walking down the street and suddenly right by his feet he sees an apple, without even thinking he picks it up to clean off and eat. that's his reality - now imagine a shopkeeper in a busy shop suddenly noticing that an apple has rolled off his fruit display just outside the shop - he cant go pick it up yet because he has a queue of customers that he has to deal with first, so as he's baggging up people's groceries he notices a pesky kid take the apple and start munching on it! - imagine his furey! In his reality the kid stole his apple, in the kid's reality he picked an apple that no one else would have picked off the floor - who is right? who has the 'true' version of reality? So the shopkeeper's mathematical rules are: if he takes my apple he is stealing, the kid's rules are: If I find food on the street that no one seems to want, I can eat it. Life is not as simple as true or false - words are.

 

Well, now you're getting into some really theoretical/hypothetical stuff. I'm sure mathemeticians would have some issues with your argument. Unless you are a mathmetician and you are into some heavy mathemetical theory, which I just don't have the energy to debate or even equipped to. Then there are the quantum physics crowd who claim there is only a reality when there is an observer...that's a whole 'nuther chapter too.

Yeah, the shop keeper and the homeless kid have their own interpretatoin of what happened. But something devoid of human interpretation did happen and that my friend is the truth. We may never *know* the truth, but it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Perhaps that's what God or 'the great spirit' is there for...to 'witness' the truth, perhaps god is the safeguard of truth, because we humans are always twisting it to suit our own aims and purposes.

Good thoughts,

T

[freeform]

.

Edited October 23, 2019 by freeform

[kipster]

If I were *really* honest about the world and the people around me I would have nothing but the absolute, highest praises to sing and I would have a shitload of energy too. I would light up the night.

 

"One glimpse of the true human being, and we are in love."

-- Ikkyu

[Yoda]

truth is love, baby! Nice quote.