On love and sex

[gendao]

There is no such thing as 'non sexual ' sex, vortex.

 

you think 'lust' IS 'sex', that's all.

Au contraire. Actually, what I believe is that sex and lust are not necessarily inseparable.

 

Therefore, you could have non-lusty sex...which would then be "non sexual" sex.

 

This could be in energetic dual cultivation...or even regular sex where one (or both) partners are emotionally-disconnected and personally disinterested. But still physically performing the biological act of sex (see porn or prostitution).

 

Without the emotional aspect and feelings of lust, it seems the act can still occur...but becomes more clinical (ie - "non sexual"). Or in your terms, the gateaux without the whipped cream.

 

But I am no authority here, in fact the opposite in trying to figure it all out!

[.broken.]

Entertaining thread. Some points I would like to make:

 

- It is possible to have sex that has no lust and lots of love - a real appreciation for the other person that develops through genuine companionship. Lust, in my eyes, is just hormonal.

 

- Venus flytraps do not eat often...

 

- Ian attempted to describe an experience. All experiences require an experiencer and as such words do not do them justice, unless the experience is one shared... if that's the case then there is only linguistic subjectivity to overcome

 

- I reckon it would be a worthwhile experience sharing sex with a woman whose heart chakra is as open as Witch claims hers to be.

 

- Women are randy if healthy, as Witch rightly pointed out. Any preconception that man is at fault clearly indicates that person never met one (a healthy woman).

 

- Modern society plays a large role at dangling sex in front of men's faces from the moment they are born. This is responsible for much of the uncontrollable, obsessive attitude that some men have. My spiritual journey is taking me along a path that encourages a 'healthy' relationship with the desire to have sex - I know that for me to spread my seed is against my true self.

 

- Sex, by its very nature, has a large part to play in the physical evolution of all species, however, many here seem to neglect its cultural evolution. There is a reason why sex was only permitted in many societies after a certain time frame, or when a certain ceremony was held. Sex is a spiritual practice above all else. Evolutionarily speaking, sexual relationships between two organism evolved from asexual reproduction... the splitting of one into many. Sex is one of the ways we can experience oneness.

 

- Feminine and masculine must be balanced properly to attain enlightenment. Females should not reject their masculinity, and males should not reject their feminity.

 

Yours in humble typing masturabation,

James

Edited July 10, 2008 by .broken.

[三江源]

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Edited March 23, 2015 by 三江源

[gendao]

^ Well, I agree that some of the squabble here is over semantics. Cuz what we're talking about here is not well-predefined.

 

But, I do know of having orgasms that are more like just clinical, energetic flows than really "pleasurable" if lust and emotions are not also involved.

 

Pleasure then seems to be tied to sweaty lust and personal emotions (passion). The energetic flows of sex just seem to be more of a "neutral" vehicle for that.

 

Which is not to discount non-lusty sex for other purposes, like dual cultivation.

 

I just wonder if that is as "pleasurable?" And what you can really attain with Osho's non-ejaculatory valley orgasms, if those supposedly aim towards a higher goal?

 

Anyone wanna chime in with such actual experiences here?

[.broken.]

Hello Vortex. non -lusty sex ISNT 'non - sexual', from my pov, that is what I am trying to put across to you.. that there is a entire realm of huge deep sexual capacity, quite quite apart from the distracting excitement of lust.

 

I am healthy, *cough*, very healthy, and I enjoy lust as much as the next healthy woman, I am NOT anti lust. And I do know, it's a pretty small feeling, compared to what's actually accessible.

 

Actually, having written that.. I just realised that we havent really defined what we mean by 'lust', anyway. We are likely falling in to the same trap of not using words in an agreed way... like wot made the misunderstanding of BLong in the first place..

 

ha ha, .broken. nice post, I'm ha ha ing at your last line, only.

 

Thank you Cat, you randy creature

 

To risk sounding like a broken, no pun intended, record... Defining each other's understanding of a word, and empathising with the other's definition, is what helps in fixing my aforementioned linguisitic subjectivity. Your realisation that "lust" in this instance had not been defined by both parties is an example of this... you may both have different understandings and experiences associated to that word. (A theory of mine is that a large proportion of arguments are created due to a lack of this knowledge.)

 

That aside, I also feel I need to correct myself. I wrote:

 

Women are randy if healthy

 

... implying that all randy women are healthy. This is not the case, and I would like to reverse that statement. Yes, if a woman is healthy their libido is unimpeded. However, I had the pleasure of having a relationship with a lady who had psychological imbalances that made her think she was randy, when there was no physical symptom whatsoever - a problem stemming from vulgar sexual abuse which contributed to many issues she had. Dry as a desert, though thankfully not as sandy.

 

James

Edited July 10, 2008 by .broken.

[hervoyel]

Barry Long feels like making love. I'd be curious to hear what everyone thinks of it.

 

http://www.reuniting.info/wisdom/sources/b...ong_making_love

 

Okay, here we go. This is the nuts and bolts of the tao de Barry. Long article, I'll read it later.

 

http://www.wie.org/j13/barrylong.asp?page=1

 

I would like to draw the attention of my fellow Taobums to the website where Yoda has found the material on Barry Long. I have been reading it for many moths now and I find it very interesting and convincing.

 

In a nutshell, its author - Marnia Robinson, author of the book "Peace Between the Sheets" claims that orgasm is the main culprit for the separation between the sexes which slowly creeps in every couple. Orgasm would trigger chemical reactions in our brain which alters our perception of our partner. That, in turns, leads to disharmony in the couple which can cause it to split. According to Marnia, that is Nature's way of ensuring genetic diversity in our offspring.

 

She proposes a way to avoid that, namely by having sex in a way that we stay in the pre-orgasmic zone. A technique she advocates is called Karezza, but there are others, e.g. Yogani on his website AYP advocates pre-orgasmic sex.

 

For those interested, a brief introductory video can be found here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NliPruvbhHA

[三江源]

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Edited March 23, 2015 by 三江源

[witch]

Initially, sure. It takes practice to stay present through the restlessness and dissatisfaction that will arise. We have a many-thousand-year habit of wanting to run the show and for it to be significant to our little selves.

 

But then if you can stay with it the depth and the truth and the beauty start to open up.

 

Surely the parallel with meditation is obvious. If you can only do nothing the most amazing things will happen. After a while. If you don't seek it.

 

I should point out I didn't much care for the crown chakra orgasm I had. I've experienced loss of self, and I dislike it. It was amazing, just not my cuppa. I like sixth chakra orgasms, where each person is fully themselves.

 

 

hat aside, I also feel I need to correct myself. I wrote:

... implying that all randy women are healthy. This is not the case, and I would like to reverse that statement. Yes, if a woman is healthy their libido is unimpeded. However, I had the pleasure of having a relationship with a lady who had psychological imbalances that made her think she was randy, when there was no physical symptom whatsoever - a problem stemming from vulgar sexual abuse which contributed to many issues she had. Dry as a desert, though thankfully not as sandy.

 

James

 

I agree here. Some women's drive to have sex is mental rather than driven by their body's desire.

 

If it counts for anything, I've made it my life's work to make women like me less rare. I like being this way.

[Seth Ananda]

Hi everyone, its an interesting conversation here. I thought I'd add a few random thoughts. I've met a person or two who knew or spent time with Barry Long and had different stories about him. one is that his women were all from not jealous. he did not keep a tidy home relationship wise. One lady i knew said he was very angry bordering on abusive, and was very contemptuous of the Women around him and of the perspectives of others.

He died of prostate cancer from what i remember. He encouraged some rather sycophantic behavior among those around him.

This is all what I have been told by people who say they knew him and I have no way of knowing if its true, but i tend to believe them.

I've Seen a number of video lectures and for me, i feel that sometimes he said interesting stuff but did not at all look or sound integrated.

I'm a great fan of the Tantric tradition so was excited when i first heard about him but the overall vibes of the man were a let down for me.

As for keeping several Women Satisfied and free of jealousy I know some Key points. (my Female instructors taught me well )

1 - WORSHIP WORSHIP WORSHIP!

2 - Make Love to Her 24 hours a day!

3 - Be so completely present with the Woman your with that she feels like Shiva himself is holding every molecule of Her being.

I've seen this powerfully demonstrated over lengthy periods and experienced it myself to lesser degrees. Its a lot easier said than done and very few men are up for the challenge. I'll probably be working at it for the rest of my life. You need a deep sense of reverence and love for all women kind to even be able to get close to this.

The real teachers of this all say that if you cant get there with one Woman you have no business even trying with more than one.

The other thing is the healing a (most) Woman needs to go through just to get all the old Unfulfilled, un-met, abused, stuck sexual energy out of her body is Huge. Even Women who have had fairly good sexual experiences over their life, if you ask them seriously, have been allowing penetration before they felt fully ready themselves. The stored memory in Her Yoni causes her Yoni to slowly become 'empty' of vitality. There are very few women in the west who's Yonis are 'full'.

A mans worship of Her and complete reverence, will allow Her to release and heal and finally Flower which is incredible to behold. Its here that jealousy disappears for She is completely satisfied and loved and happy and tends to naturally want you to be able to share this with others, and also wants you to be completely true to yourself (whatever that will look like) as She will know this is what makes you most able to 'Meet' Her with your powerful energetic presence. So it becomes Self interest on Her behalf. If the romeo/juliet relationship starts slipping back in and possessiveness, clingyness and jealousy start to surface again its simple, You haven't been loving her enough!

Thats how I see it and it works for me when I'm up for the challenge.

Seth.

Sat Chit Anand!

[rain]

[rain]

Au contraire. Actually, what I believe is that sex and lust are not necessarily inseparable.

 

Therefore, you could have non-lusty sex...which would then be "non sexual" sex.

 

This could be in energetic dual cultivation...or even regular sex where one (or both) partners are emotionally-disconnected and personally disinterested. But still physically performing the biological act of sex (see porn or prostitution).

 

Without the emotional aspect and feelings of lust, it seems the act can still occur...but becomes more clinical (ie - "non sexual"). Or in your terms, the gateaux without the whipped cream.

 

But I am no authority here, in fact the opposite in trying to figure it all out!

 

hi Vortex

this is actually very interesting. I have encountered two versions of tantra. the original and ultimate one seemed to be the one you are describing as dual cultivation without desire/lust. got me puzzled but then again not. buddhism.

[Patrick Brown]

[Jedi777]

If Shiva and Shakti join = if you find your spiritual partner then dual cultivation with them can accelerate your development like a rocket...

[Patrick Brown]

If Shiva and Shakti join = if you find your spiritual partner then dual cultivation with them can accelerate your development like a rocket...

Isn't shiva shakti already one? Most of the Hindu gods have a female aspect/counterpart but they are still one. It's like the differentiation of male and female is only apparent yet those that manipulate society like to reinforce this erroneous distinction. It even states in the 'Old Testament' that women should have long hair and men short. I wonder how many people have noticed that all these male gods and Buddha's have long hair?

 

 

Not really related but just for fun our friend Derren charming the pants of the girls:

 

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type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

 

Edited July 11, 2008 by Patrick Brown

[DustWalker]

Thank you all for an amazing thread!! Really worthwile and interesting posts! Thank you to Cat for the brilliant idea to create a richer language for the different modes and emotions and intentions involved with in sexual conduct. That would really clear out a lot of confusion and make us all easily discover and try out different ways of sensually interacting together!

 

Keep it coming y'all

[Ian]

Ok, well can you just tell me if you prefer it to "regular" ole' lusty sex?

 

I've only had glimpses so far.

 

I'm heartily sick of "regular old lusty sex" with about 60% of my functioning self, and still totally up for it with the rest.

 

Much the same way as much of me wants to eat healthily and a significant minority wants to live entirely on sugar.

[gendao]

Hi everyone, its an interesting conversation here. I thought I'd add a few random thoughts. I've met a person or two who knew or spent time with Barry Long and had different stories about him. one is that his women were all from not jealous.

 

As for keeping several Women Satisfied and free of jealousy I know some Key points. (my Female instructors taught me well )

1 - WORSHIP WORSHIP WORSHIP!

2 - Make Love to Her 24 hours a day!

3 - Be so completely present with the Woman your with that she feels like Shiva himself is holding every molecule of Her being.

Do you mean his women were far from not jealous? As in they were jealous?

 

Also, do you mean literally make love (sex) to her "24/7?" Who has time for that though? Or just love her in an emotional sense?

I believe that the woman spots the man and allows him to engage.

I myself am only restricted by time, my own intelligens and the social norms I choose to confine to when it comes to my hunt for the ultimate partner. i believe women would like to see their bloodline extended and mixed with what they see as the ultimate genes combined with their own. this is the biological side. romance and passion and desire..transcends us and ensures creation. I can see my future star child whenever I see a beautiful man.

So, is this what you would call lust or love at first sight?

hi Vortex

this is actually very interesting. I have encountered two versions of tantra. the original and ultimate one seemed to be the one you are describing as dual cultivation without desire/lust. got me puzzled but then again not. buddhism.

Yes, by this I mean you can have a full-fledged (not weak) orgasm...but devoid of lust and personal attachment/emotional bonding...it just feels like "any other" non-sexual energy rush and more "clinical" than "pleasurable." Again, I am no expert here - but have seen, heard of and somewhat experienced this before lately.

 

Cat - Let's say a random "massage therapist" or "Tantric" adept rubs you off one as a demo. You don't even know the guy (or gal), and they might not even touch you physically. Yet, they could still stimulate an orgasm in you as a physiological response...yet no matter how intense, it wouldn't feel as "pleasurable" as one with a romantic partner with an emotional connection. Because there would be no "meaning" attached. It's like your body is involved, but not your "soul."

[Yoda]

Seth,

 

Thanks for the report on Barry Long... I'm not surprised as you can pick up on his condescending attitude in his writing, but still I think there is wisdom to his perspective.

 

Need to find someone like cat

 

Ian,

 

Be careful what you pray for! For better or for worse, I like being the one wearing the "cultivation pants" in the relationship... I'm not so sure I'd like to deal with all the interdimensional competition that a bloke would run into with all the amazing taobum goddesses around here.

 

~~~

 

Speaking of interdimensional... I happened to be reading a channeled love n sex manual the other day. Apparently, those non physicals would like to see us raise the bar around here! Anyways, it was written in terms of Egyptian magnetic/electric yin/yang type language and the woman has to feel very loved to open up her "magnetic floor". And after the sex act it is very important for the male to nest and enfold the woman with his love and affection.

 

There is some discussion of general kundalini type cultivation to the point where one can feel the two serpents writhe inside the body. I liked that line. There was a prayer to make one live in greater love, but that's pretty much it on the details.

 

So by that perspective, it really boils down to how much you can love your partner and how to do that is a tough issue to address head on.

 

One little booster, though, is some sort of affection ritual like back rubs, foot rubs, etc on a regular basis.

 

Yoda

[gendao]

BTW, for some possible examples of "non-lusty" orgasms here...I might suspect that these may have been some:

We used to give women orgasm on the spotp with Dr>morris and I playing around with chi circulations in public but not telling the ladies.

OK so then she just turned her backside to me and then started pumping her legs. We just had an O at a D -- she's native american I think. And then she sauntered off.

Last time I sat in full-lotus in the back seat of my parent's car and my mom was in front of me. We had a couple O at a Ds and then she gave me $40.

Now, these women may have had intense orgasms...but I'm speculating that "feelingswise" - they may have been more or less neutral and so not emotionally pleasurable.

 

I mean surely, Drew's mom didn't get off emotionally by the orgasm he stimulated in her. It probably felt like a nice, physiological energetic flow...but not one loaded with lust and emotion. And without those additional "hot" factors, it can be a drier, more clinical & mechanical experience.