The wu-chi diagram

[Apech]

Hello knowledgeable ones,

 

I have been reading Eva Wong's "Cultivating Stillness" over the Xmas/New Year and am interested in the diagram (Fig. 1 in the book) - version attached below.

 

I wondered if anyone knew of any source material which deals with this diagram in greater depth - online or in print.

 

Thanks.

 

A7.

 

 

 

[soaring crane]

Hey Appech7 - Thanks for posting the pic, I don't understand it, either, lol. Tao is at the top, and manifestation is at the bottom, it's TTC 42, but the the Wuxing in the middle has the order non-standard, and what is that small circle on the bottom? You can follow the path through Fire, Earth, Metal, Water, Wood and the little circle functions like a switcher at the train station, sending you from Wood to Fire and from Metal to Water. I don't know where it comes from.

 

With Earth in the middle, I only know it with Fire in the south/above, Water in the north/below, Wood east/left, Metal west/right. Qigong orientation.

 

There's no elucidation in the book???

 

I'm looking forward to the answers, too.

[Apech]

 

 

There's no elucidation in the book???

 

I'm looking forward to the answers, too.

 

 

No there is some elucidation in the book but I was wanting more.

[Apech]

Bumping my own thread. Where is Stig when you need him.

 

I have extracted some notes on the diagram.

 

 

Notes on the Wu Chi Diagram

 

 

These notes are taken from the introduction to Eva Wong's "Cultivating Stillness".

 

 

The diagram has its own lineage of transmission detailed in the Chronicles of Huashan (Huashan chi) and was originally found inscribed on a cliff face in Huashan. The diagram having been passed down through various sages ended up with Chen Hsi-i a Sung Dynasty Taoist hermit.

 

The diagram describes the Taoist theory of the universe and the process of cultivating the internal pill. The internal pill being the result of the process of internal alchemy. It is the essence of health and longevity.

 

The concept of the Wu Chi is traced back to the TTC where in verse 28 a return to the infinite is first mentioned:

 

 

Know the strength of man,

But keep a woman's care!

Be the stream of the universe!

Being the stream of the universe,

Ever true and unswerving,

Become as a little child once more.

Know the white,

But keep the black!

Be an example to the world!

Being an example to the world,

Ever true and unwavering,

Return to the infinite.

 

Chuang Tzu also says "enter the nameless gate" and "wander in the expanse of wu-chi".

 

Wu Chi is the concept of an infinite source for all things which can be compared to the Confusian concept of T'ai-chi.

 

If the diagram is read from the top down it is a description of the origin of things and if it is read from the bottom up then it is the stages in internal alchemy.

 

A description of the creation of things is given in Chou Tuan-i treatise T'ai-chi T'ao Shou.

 

Reading from bottom up we can look at each of the parts of the diagram (circles and so on) one at a time.

 

Bottom circle : Mysterious Gate/Valley Spirit ....Emptiness / Void

 

Second circle : Transmutation of generative energy into vapour (ch'i)

 

Five element : Transmutation of vapour into spiritual energy (ling-ch'i)

 

Black and white semi-circles : fire and water (k'an and li) interaction

 

Top circle : Origin/Source/Tao

 

 

 

If anyone knows any more please post link(s).

 

Thanks

 

A7.

[Stigweard]

Bumping my own thread. Where is Stig when you need him.

 

A7.

 

 

Chart of the Great Ultimate (Taiji tu)

 

The relations among the different cosmological configurations that intervene between the Dao and the "ten thousand things" are illustrated in the Chart of the Great Ultimate (Taiji tu), which was discussed at length by both Taoist and Neo-Confucian authors. Texts in the Daozang (Taoist Canon) contain several versions of this chart; the one reproduced below is the best-known version.

 

On top, the chart depicts the Absolute (wuji) as an empty circle.

 

Below is another circle that represents the Great Ultimate (taiji) as harboring the Two, or Yin and Yang, shown as two semicircles that mirror each other. Each semicircle is made of black (Yin) and white (Yang) lines that enclose each other, to depict Yin containing True Yang and Yang containing True Yin. The empty circle within these lines corresponds to the empty circle on top, alluding to the notion that Yin and Yang are the "function" or "operation" (yong) of Emptiness, which in turn is their "substance" or "core" (ti).

 

Following this are the five agents (wuxing), which constitute a further stage in the progressive differentiation from Oneness to multiplicity. The lines that connect the Agents to each other show the sequence in which they are generated, namely Wood, Fire, Soil, Metal, and Water. In the configuration of the five agents, the Great Ultimate is represented by the central Soil (which is said to have a "male" and a "female" aspect) and reappears as the small empty circle below, which represents the conjunction of Water and Fire ("Great Yin" and "Great Yang") and of Wood and Metal ("Minor Yang" and "Minor Yin").

 

The circle below the five agents represents the joining of Heaven and Earth, or the active and passive principles that respectively give birth to and support the existence of the "ten thousand things." The state of multiplicity is represented by the circle at the base of the diagram.

 

Taoism: Chart of the Great Ultimate (Taiji tu)

[soaring crane]

So, this is a meditation chart froma specific school, something that had occured to me today while I was out shopping (and that the elucidation from the book that wasn't initally posted supports). Actually, my interpretation says exactly the same thing as the text Stig pasted, except I used railroad station speak, lol. So, Stig, where is the central soil located in the body? What exactly is it referring to? This is referrig to the Huang Ting cavity, isn't it? "conjunction of Water and Fire"? I want to compare the progression to the Golden Pavillion as described in M Saso's book, I expect there's going to be a similarity. Hmmm.... really interesting, thanks for bumping it, A7!

 

 

In the configuration of the five agents, the Great Ultimate is represented by the central Soil (which is said to have a "male" and a "female" aspect) and reappears as the small empty circle below, which represents the conjunction of Water and Fire ("Great Yin" and "Great Yang") and of Wood and Metal ("Minor Yang" and "Minor Yin")

[Apech]

Hi Stig!

 

Thanks for that ... I knew you would know something of this.

 

Is the arrangement of elements standard? Or is this a specific to this school do you know?

 

I also like the business of reading it 1) top to bottom (creation) 2) bottom to top (cultivation) this is excellent a mirrors something I have been working on all last year.

 

Cheers

 

A7.

 

 

 

So, this is a meditation chart froma specific school, something that had occured to me today while I was out shopping (and that the elucidation from the book that wasn't initally posted supports). Actually, my interpretation says exactly the same thing as the text Stig pasted, except I used railroad station speak, lol. So, Stig, where is the central soil located in the body? What exactly is it referring to? This is referrig to the Huang Ting cavity, isn't it? "conjunction of Water and Fire"? I want to compare the progression to the Golden Pavillion as described in M Saso's book, I expect there's going to be a similarity. Hmmm.... really interesting, thanks for bumping it, A7!

 

 

I think the central soil = earth = heart center ?????? or perhaps heart/mind is better.

[soaring crane]

I think the central soil = earth = heart center ?????? or perhaps heart/mind is better.

 

Hi A7 - If you look at it as a meditation guide, then the path of the line leads you through the five organs, in the natural order, provided you turn the right direction when you get to that small junction. The diagram clearly means to indicate an area separate from the 5 organs. That point is called, in the text you added, the 'conjunction of water and fire', which tells me its a Kan and Li alchemy.

 

The point that I would look for is the Huang Ting cavity, which is pretty elusive. I've been looking for it for a while, lol, and I know where to look, but it's a sneaky one :-)

 

The diagram really does help, though.

[Taomeow]

Thanks.

 

A few minor corrections and additions if you don't mind...

 

 

 

Chart of the Great Ultimate (Taiji tu)

 

The relations among the different cosmological configurations that intervene between the Dao and the "ten thousand things" are illustrated in the Chart of the Great Ultimate (Taiji tu), which was discussed at length by both Taoist and Neo-Confucian authors. Texts in the Daozang (Taoist Canon) contain several versions of this chart; the one reproduced below is the best-known version.

 

On top, the chart depicts the Absolute (wuji) as an empty circle.

 

So far so good.

 

 

Below is another circle that represents the Great Ultimate (taiji) as harboring the Two, or Yin and Yang, shown as two semicircles that mirror each other. Each semicircle is made of black (Yin) and white (Yang) lines that enclose each other, to depict Yin containing True Yang and Yang containing True Yin.

 

Correct.

The empty circle within these lines corresponds to the empty circle on top, alluding to the notion that Yin and Yang are the "function" or "operation" (yong) of Emptiness, which in turn is their "substance" or "core" (ti).

 

It goes both ways. The empty circle is the fucntion or operation of yin and yang if you reverse time. "To and fro goes the Way."

 

The emphasis on emptiness/unmanifest/xian tian/tao-in-stillness/wuji as opposed to ten-thousand-things/manifest/hou tian/tao-in-motion/taiji is not present in nor derivable from the upper (genuine) diagram, and is an acquisition from other (non-taoist) schools of thought. Taoist proper theory and practice emphasize reciprocity of wuji-taiji relationship, and consequently taoist empirical practice, far from being one-way "leaving the world" ticket, has a "coming into the world" imperative traditionally followed by taoists to replicate this "to and fro" of tao-in-stillness and tao-in-motion in a life that aspires to ti tao, embody tao. I see it as a crucial point to grasp.

Following this are the five agents (wuxing), which constitute a further stage in the progressive differentiation from Oneness to multiplicity. The lines that connect the Agents to each other show the sequence in which they are generated, namely Wood, Fire, Soil, Metal, and Water. In the configuration of the five agents, the Great Ultimate is represented by the central Soil (which is said to have a "male" and a "female" aspect) and reappears as the small empty circle below, which represents the conjunction of Water and Fire ("Great Yin" and "Great Yang") and of Wood and Metal ("Minor Yang" and "Minor Yin").

 

The sequence of generation of wuxing phases begins with Water. Earth in the middle is one way to arrange it but it is only used by schools influenced by other doctrines, the taoist proper arrangement is circular. However, the one with Earth in the middle is useful in certain applications, notably in some Xuan Kong (space-time) schools of feng shui (that's because there's four seasons and four cardinal directions but five wuxing phases, so placing the earth in the middle is a way to see the cogs and pegs of the wheels of time interact from a simplified perspective that's easier to work with. Some of the great FS schools avoid it, however, and instead introduce the fifth season -- "late summer" -- governed by earth. Either way can be worked with. By the way, the placement of the earth in the middle to form a square around it accounts for the taoist assertion that "the earth is square" -- this is the shape of it's spirit, its sacred-geometrical shape rather than its physical shape. They have never been dumb enough to equate one with the other.

 

The circle below the five agents represents the joining of Heaven and Earth, or the active and passive principles that respectively give birth to and support the existence of the "ten thousand things." The state of multiplicity is represented by the circle at the base of the diagram.

 

The small circle at the base is a fractal (ganying) reflection of the wuji circle on top, and a clue that wuxing interactions never leave its domain despite all the hectic activity, while wuji never leaves the domain of hectic activity despite all its stillness.

 

The two circles below the diagram are superfluous and probably a later addition of non-taoist origins.

 

Taoism: Chart of the Great Ultimate (Taiji tu)

Edited January 7, 2010 by Taomeow

[Apech]

 

 

 

 

The two circles below the diagram are superfluous and probably a later addition of non-taoist origins. [/color]

 

Taoism: Chart of the Great Ultimate (Taiji tu)

 

 

Taomeow,

 

Thanks for your comments - are you sure about this last point?????

 

 

A7.

[Taomeow]

Taomeow,

 

Thanks for your comments - are you sure about this last point?????

A7.

Pretty sure... also alchemical schools that place earth in the middle are mix-and-match schools, not entirely original.

 

It's easy to see once you are familiar with hetu and luoshu, the fundamental diagrams the whole structure of taoism is based on.

[soaring crane]

Taomeow - why does the path through the wuxing pass through that small circle two times? What are the applications for kan li meditation and the pill? I think you know more than you're saying but I know there are some subjects you won't go into. Is this one of them?

[Taomeow]

Taomeow - why does the path through the wuxing pass through that small circle two times? What are the applications for kan li meditation and the pill? I think you know more than you're saying but I know there are some subjects you won't go into. Is this one of them?

 

There's actually two small circles in the wuxing diagram (the upper one looks a bit squished but it's there) and they correspond to the lower and middle elixir fields. The upper elixir field is actually the same as the central circle of the taiji diagram above it. And you can see that the black and white areas around it are arranged like the human brain -- yang controls on the left, yin controls on the right, yang functions on the right, yin functions on the left. This is a picture of the microcosm of the human body and a diagram of its subtle (jing-qi-shen) functions.

 

I don't remember what kan-li meditation is, is it something from Charles Luc?

 

Don't worry about the pill till you have control of the cauldron...

Edited January 8, 2010 by Taomeow

[soaring crane]

 

Don't worry about the pill till you have control of the cauldron...

 

lol, ok, I'll try to remember that. You pill

 

Not sure if you're being sneaky with the question regarding Kan Li... afraid to move now. "From" Charles Luk, no, I don't think so, lol.

 

Anyway, I fell asleep meditating on this and I'd say it's good. Very good. Things is a' tinglin' down there, sounds like a cold iron wok heating up. Tink Tink Tink.

[Spectrum]

Map and directions

 

instruction manual

Edited January 8, 2010 by Spectrum

[Stigweard]

Heya Taomeow As always I enjoy your interactions.

The emphasis on emptiness/unmanifest/xian tian/tao-in-stillness/wuji as opposed to ten-thousand-things/manifest/hou tian/tao-in-motion/taiji is not present in nor derivable from the upper (genuine) diagram, and is an acquisition from other (non-taoist) schools of thought. Taoist proper theory and practice emphasize reciprocity of wuji-taiji relationship, and consequently taoist empirical practice, far from being one-way "leaving the world" ticket, has a "coming into the world" imperative traditionally followed by taoists to replicate this "to and fro" of tao-in-stillness and tao-in-motion in a life that aspires to ti tao, embody tao. I see it as a crucial point to grasp.

Yes, the Taiji Tushuo (太極圖說; "Explanations of the Diagram of the Supreme Ultimate" or "Diagram Explaining the Supreme Ultimate") cannot be viewed as purely a representation of Taoist ontology. Drawn by Zhou Dunyi (1017-1073), predominantly a Confucian, it was a synthesis of Confucian ideals with the I Ching and Taoist Naturalism.

The sequence of generation of wuxing phases begins with Water.

Interesting.

 

In the Ten Celestial Stems, Jia (yang wood) is always presented as the first in the sequence. It is the image of breaking through, like a sprout breaking through the earth.

 

In the Twelve Earthly Branches however it is indeed Tze (yang water) that initiates the sequence. It is the image of the reproductiveness of life, like a seed beneath the earth, absorbing moisture and nutrition for development.

 

When the Ten Celestial Stems and the Twelve Earthly Branches combine to form the full 60 phase cycle the first phase is therefore Jia Tze. It is a recognition that the "initiation of life" requires both the male "penetration" and the female reproductive womb.

Earth in the middle is one way to arrange it but it is only used by schools influenced by other doctrines, the taoist proper arrangement is circular. However, the one with Earth in the middle is useful in certain applications, notably in some Xuan Kong (space-time) schools of feng shui (that's because there's four seasons and four cardinal directions but five wuxing phases, so placing the earth in the middle is a way to see the cogs and pegs of the wheels of time interact from a simplified perspective that's easier to work with. Some of the great FS schools avoid it, however, and instead introduce the fifth season -- "late summer" -- governed by earth. Either way can be worked with. By the way, the placement of the earth in the middle to form a square around it accounts for the taoist assertion that "the earth is square" -- this is the shape of it's spirit, its sacred-geometrical shape rather than its physical shape. They have never been dumb enough to equate one with the other.

 

The reason why Earth is placed in the middle is because it is seen as the unifying, stabilizing and harmonizing force amongst the five phases. After each phase of the four phases a harmonizing earth phase ensues.

[Taomeow]

lol, ok, I'll try to remember that. You pill

 

Not sure if you're being sneaky with the question regarding Kan Li... afraid to move now. "From" Charles Luk, no, I don't think so, lol.

 

Anyway, I fell asleep meditating on this and I'd say it's good. Very good. Things is a' tinglin' down there, sounds like a cold iron wok heating up. Tink Tink Tink.

Yup, it's good. And the image is pretty apt. By the way, the same book contains a Circular I Ching diagram somewhere in the vicinity of this one if I remember correctly. I can't overemphasize its profound value and its usefulness as a meditation focus. I went apeshit with this one a few years ago, I was drawing it everywhere, on paper, in the sand, on the wall, on a t-shirt -- I went as far as to start crocheting it on a doily -- but that's when it turned into a loudspeaker and yelled at me, "you think you are already immortal and have all the time in the world to waste on stupid shit like that?.." -- so I stopped of course... I still have that doily with shaoyin and shaoyang and taiyin and taiyang on display in the Hall of Shame on the street in my mind...

 

Oh, and about that wuxing thingie used alchemically... you know I can't go into that here and now, and you know who to look up and where.

[Taomeow]

Heya Taomeow As always I enjoy your interactions.

 

Likewise, Stig.

 

 

In the Ten Celestial Stems, Jia (yang wood) is always presented as the first in the sequence. It is the image of breaking through, like a sprout breaking through the earth.

 

In the Twelve Earthly Branches however it is indeed Tze (yang water) that initiates the sequence. It is the image of the reproductiveness of life, like a seed beneath the earth, absorbing moisture and nutrition for development.

When the Ten Celestial Stems and the Twelve Earthly Branches combine to form the full 60 phase cycle the first phase is therefore Jia Tze. It is a recognition that the "initiation of life" requires both the male "penetration" and the female reproductive womb.

 

Um... you're dealing with the next step at the Stems/Branches stage. Stems/Branches are generated by wuxing combinations, not vice versa.

 

Wuxing are generated by Hetu, which shows the development out of even and odd numbers of the five stages of change (the infamous "elements" of most translations.) If you look at Hetu you will see that it is Water that starts the cycle. Water in the north has sprung from the One of heaven, which is complemented by the Six of earth. Fire in the south has sprung from the Two of earth, which is complemented by the Seven of heaven. Wood in the east has sprung from the Three of heaven, which is complemented by the Eight of earth. And so on. ("Of heaven" and "of earth" refers to odd and even numbers, respectively, also corresponding to yang and yin.)

 

The reason why Earth is placed in the middle is because it is seen as the unifying, stabilizing and harmonizing force amongst the five phases. After each phase of the four phases a harmonizing earth phase ensues.

Earth in the middle is legit. It's just not the only (and for some applications, not the best) arrangement, a circular one being also legit.

Edited January 8, 2010 by Taomeow

[Apech]

 

 

The point that I would look for is the Huang Ting cavity, which is pretty elusive. I've been looking for it for a while, lol, and I know where to look, but it's a sneaky one :-)

 

 

 

Found it!

 

Huang ting

 

Apparently it is as elusive as you described:

 

"The first problem associated with Huang Ting, however, is locating it - tucked away as it is in a less-trafficked fourth-floor corner of The Central, a maze-like building with a layout that is guaranteed to confound first-time visitors. Once you get there, however, the restaurant does offer pleasant views of the Singapore River and Clarke Quay."

 

 

Oh, and about that wuxing thingie used alchemically... you know I can't go into that here and now, and you know who to look up and where.

 

That's very mysterious! Can you give clues a la Da Vinci?

 

 

 

Likewise, Stig.

Um... you're dealing with the next step at the Stems/Branches stage. Stems/Branches are generated by wuxing combinations, not vice versa.

 

Wuxing are generated by Hetu, which shows the development out of even and odd numbers of the five stages of change (the infamous "elements" of most translations.) If you look at Hetu you will see that it is Water that starts the cycle. Water in the north has sprung from the One of heaven, which is complemented by the Six of earth. Fire in the south has sprung from the Two of earth, which is complemented by the Seven of heaven. Wood in the east has sprung from the Three of heaven, which is complemented by the Eight of earth. And so on. ("Of heaven" and "of earth" refers to odd and even numbers, respectively, also corresponding to yang and yin.)

 

 

Earth in the middle is legit. It's just not the only (and for some applications, not the best) arrangement, a circular one being also legit.

 

(Sorry about above posts - feeling rather flippant, I think its the cold weather seeping in.)

 

Is it not the case that one could postulate any of elements as the beginning of cycle as long as you are clear about what you are doing and what it signifies?

 

In the Wuji diagram layout I think the central harmonizing position of the earth is the whole point given the nature of the progression of the alchemical process. This would be because it is dealing with how the individual mind/perspective is involved in the process.

Edited January 8, 2010 by apepch7

[soaring crane]

Huang ting

 

Apparently it is as elusive as you described:

 

"The first problem associated with Huang Ting, however, is locating it - tucked away as it is in a less-trafficked fourth-floor corner of The Central, a maze-like building with a layout that is guaranteed to confound first-time visitors. Once you get there, however, the restaurant does offer pleasant views of the Singapore River and Clarke Quay."

 

hahahaha! Oh man, that's great, thank you, A7

 

Look for the Yellow Court, it's probably just around the corner, under the Gold Pavilion

[Taomeow]

 

That's very mysterious! Can you give clues a la Da Vinci?

Sure. Soaring Crane is in Germany. An assistant of the teacher I learned the version of alchemy under discussion from occasionally gives seminars in Germany. The teacher is Wang Liping, the assistant who does seminars in Germany is Qin Ling. I discussed this with Crane in PMs and explained that I've been asked to learn but not to teach this stuff, so that's why I told him, "you know who to look up and where." Not Da Vinci enough I'm afraid.

[joeblast]

Yang Jwing Ming has references to the huang ting in his embryonic breathing and small circulation books, along with the chinese text. In there, its interpreted as ostensibly 'where the ltt resides,' the 'physical center of gravity,' which by drawings in the books was at the center not inly vertically, but horizontally as well.

 

dangit, my embryonic breathing book is lent out right now, but I will go double check and see what the small circulation book says.

 

 

The cavity was first called Yu Huan Xue (jade ring cavity) - "In the Illustration of Brass Acupuncture and Moxibustion it was recorded tha't within the body's cavities of viscera and bowels, there is a Jade Ring. But I do not know what the Jade Ring is."

 

"The heart is on top, the kidneys are underneath, spleen is to the left, liver to the right. The life door is in front, the closed door to the rear, they are connected like a ring. It is like white cotton, an inch in diameter. It encompasses the Essence and refinement of the whole body. This is the Jade Ring."

 

yjm interprets that to mean the cavity should be accessed from the front.

 

The Huang Ting connects with Conception and Thrusting vessels through CV7, through the thrusting vessel it connects with the upper dantien and governing vessel at the huiyin CV1.

 

The Huang Ting is located between the sternum middle dantien where yang fire qi is stored and the lwer dantien, where the yin water qi is stored -

 

the drawing contains a yin yang symbol divided at the huang ting.

 

Context appears to refer to the huang ting in a manner of....after opening the fire path MCO/small circulation, the water path method that leads through the chong mai is utilized, passing through the huang ting - seems to be more focused on raising the shen by using the refined qi led upwards...

 

 

small excerpt there

Edited January 8, 2010 by joeblast

[soaring crane]

"The heart is on top, the kidneys are underneath, spleen is to the left, liver to the right. The life door is in front, the closed door to the rear, they are connected like a ring. It is like white cotton, an inch in diameter. It encompasses the Essence and refinement of the whole body. This is the Jade Ring."

 

hah! And here I thought I'd have to upadate my GPS to find it. All ya need is Taobums. Thanks Joe

 

(PS - knowing where it is and actually "finding" it... two different things )

[Stigweard]

Likewise, Stig.

Wuxing are generated by Hetu, which shows the development out of even and odd numbers of the five stages of change (the infamous "elements" of most translations.) If you look at Hetu you will see that it is Water that starts the cycle. Water in the north has sprung from the One of heaven, which is complemented by the Six of earth. Fire in the south has sprung from the Two of earth, which is complemented by the Seven of heaven. Wood in the east has sprung from the Three of heaven, which is complemented by the Eight of earth. And so on. ("Of heaven" and "of earth" refers to odd and even numbers, respectively, also corresponding to yang and yin.)

Lets have a look at this:

 

 

OK so Water in the North (bottom of the Hetu), from your perspective, starts the sequence by virtue of the 1 / 6. Correct?

 

So the sequence is Water, Fire, Wood, Metal, Earth. Correct?

 

So how does that then relate to:

 

 

[Taomeow]

Lets have a look at this:

 

 

OK so Water in the North (bottom of the Hetu), from your perspective, starts the sequence by virtue of the 1 / 6. Correct?

Correct, but it's not my perspective, it's Ta Chuan (the Great Treatice) and Laozi (tao gives birth to one. One in the North is where it's at.)

The diagram you posted is left-right reversed. Hetu comes first.

So the sequence is Water, Fire, Wood, Metal, Earth. Correct?

 

 

No. Water, Wood, Fire, Earth, Metal.

 

So how does that then relate to:

 

 

 

Look at the clockwise cycle of creation. That's about the only thing this version of the diagram got right.

You posted this version of the diagram before and I think I pointed out its problems at that time. It's not a very good diagram, it has a few mistakes. I don't want to go over them once again -- maybe you can find the original discussion somewhere?

Edited January 9, 2010 by Taomeow