"there is such a self"

[Marblehead]

Emptiness is reality -- this is the great secret.

 

 

I feel a need to comment to the above.

 

Emptiness is only one aspect of reality. Fullness is another. Emptiness is 'wu'; fullness is 'yo'. All of us live somewhere between the two. One foot planted firmly (if we are lucky) in each realm.

 

Peace & Love!

[voidisyinyang]

No one is LISTENING.

 

I feel a need to comment to the above.

 

Emptiness is only one aspect of reality. Fullness is another. Emptiness is 'wu'; fullness is 'yo'. All of us live somewhere between the two. One foot planted firmly (if we are lucky) in each realm.

 

Peace & Love!

[dwai]

I feel a need to comment to the above.

 

Emptiness is only one aspect of reality. Fullness is another. Emptiness is 'wu'; fullness is 'yo'. All of us live somewhere between the two. One foot planted firmly (if we are lucky) in each realm.

 

Peace & Love!

 

Fullness is contained within Emptiness as a potentiality.

I concur with Drew, albeit not necessarily agreeing entirely with his conflation of physics and Consciousness, NO ONE is LISTENING!

Edited January 8, 2010 by dwai

[voidisyinyang]

Actually my whole schtick is that Western science is the OPPOSITE of real consciousness -- I call this the "rotten root" -- hold on.... here scroll down for my article "the rotten root" from 2000 or so:

 

http://www.nonduality.com/whatis8.htm

 

Fullness is contained within Emptiness as a potentiality.

I concur with Drew, albeit not necessarily agreeing entirely with his conflation of physics and Consciousness, NO ONE is LISTENING!

[Marblehead]

Fullness is contained within Emptiness as a potentiality.

I concur with Drew, albeit not necessarily agreeing entirely with his conflation of physics and Consciousness, NO ONE is LISTENING!

 

Hi Dwai,

 

Long time since we have spoke with each other. I missed you.

 

Yes, from your perspective I do agree with you but from my perspective I, naturally, disagree. Yo is a subset of Wu. Wu is emptiness, that is, full "potential". Yo is the fullness as a result of the interaction of Chi with potential.

 

Yes, Yo was Wu, therefore it was born out of emptiness but in its Yo state it is fullness.

 

I know, we could disagree on this 'til the cows come home so I guess that we should just agree that this is one of the concepts where Taoism and Buddhism are not if full agreement on.

 

Peace & Love!

 

No one is LISTENING.

 

Nearly all the Taoist listen when I speak. Don't fool yourself and start that BS that I went through with another member recently.

 

Peace & Love!

 

And BTW, apparently there are a number of Buddhist who listen to me as well else I wouldn't get into so many disagreements on this forum.

 

Peace & Love one more time.

Edited January 8, 2010 by Marblehead

[voidisyinyang]

Who was the other member -- want me to "full-lotus" them?

 

 

Nearly all the Taoist listen when I speak. Don't fool yourself and start that BS that I went through with another member recently.

 

Peace & Love!

[Marblehead]

Who was the other member -- want me to "full-lotus" them?

 

Hehehe. Thanks but no. We have an understanding that we are not going to pay any attention to each other for a while.

 

Peace & Love!

[Marblehead]

Actually my whole schtick is that Western science is the OPPOSITE of real consciousness -- I call this the "rotten root" -- hold on.... here scroll down for my article "the rotten root" from 2000 or so:

 

http://www.nonduality.com/whatis8.htm

 

Okay Drew,

 

I felt obliged to read the article. Excellent, I must say. Thanks for sharing.

 

Peace & Love!

[voidisyinyang]

http://www.facebook.com/SpringForestQigong...stQigong?v=wall

 

Okay Drew,

 

I felt obliged to read the article. Excellent, I must say. Thanks for sharing.

 

Peace & Love!

[Marblehead]

http://www.facebook.com/SpringForestQigong...stQigong?v=wall

 

Sounds like a really great person. What is your connection, if any, with him?

 

Peace & Love!

[Pero]

Sounds like a really great person. What is your connection, if any, with him?

 

Peace & Love!

 

Are you kidding me?! How can you have 3000+ posts and not know about Drew and Chuny Lin?

It's not like he doesn't mention it every month or something.

[Marblehead]

Are you kidding me?! How can you have 3000+ posts and not know about Drew and Chuny Lin?

It's not like he doesn't mention it every month or something.

 

Hehehe. I can't stop laughing. Hehehe.

 

Actually I don't pay attention to those threads where my interests do not lie. And I would feel like a fool if I posted to any of them so I just stay away.

 

So can I assume that there is a fairly firm attachment (I just had to use that word) between the two?

 

Peace & Love!

[voidisyinyang]

Yeah you can watch these amazing vids on people healed by Chunyi Lin:

 

http://www.springforestqigong.com/testimonials.htm

 

I did intensive SFQ practice back in 2000 and then have been researching what I experienced through books since then plus continuing the practice through full-lotus third eye transmissions.

 

I went too strong too fast and then I stopped practicing but then Chunyi Lin stuck his E.T. finger to my forehead thereby permanently magnetizing the middle of my brain with magnetic bliss.

 

But still my chakras closed up quite a bit so I mainly do "fa jing" now -- not "fa chi" -- but in order to do external third eye transmissions at some point you had to have been able to do "fa shen" transmissions -- which means seeing dead spirits and having nirvikalpa samadhi spacetime vortex travel, etc.

 

So I went 9 days on just half a glass of water -- the bigu fasting state -- and I healed my mom but I also accidentally pulled this old lady's spirit out of the top of her skull. People were freaking out around me and I had telepathy and telekinesis and precognition. My mom screamed at me super bad because I had been fasting but also because I was exorcising evil spirits from her.

 

haha. That's pretty much it -- except that after going 9 days on just half glass of water I was in this post-death state and I started eating out of dumpsters because that's what poor people do in India, etc. Crazy zen stuff. Then I discovered that I gave females climaxes and they gave me climaxes when I was in full-lotus so I called this the "O at a D" -- orgasm at a distance. It happens automatically and heals the females. I can shoot the energy into males as well but females naturally sublimate through the internal climax.

 

Sounds like a really great person. What is your connection, if any, with him?

 

Peace & Love!

[3bob]

Yeah you can watch these amazing vids on people healed by Chunyi Lin:

 

http://www.springforestqigong.com/testimonials.htm

 

I did intensive SFQ practice back in 2000 and then have been researching what I experienced through books since then plus continuing the practice through full-lotus third eye transmissions.

 

I went too strong too fast and then I stopped practicing but then Chunyi Lin stuck his E.T. finger to my forehead thereby permanently magnetizing the middle of my brain with magnetic bliss.

 

But still my chakras closed up quite a bit so I mainly do "fa jing" now -- not "fa chi" -- but in order to do external third eye transmissions at some point you had to have been able to do "fa shen" transmissions -- which means seeing dead spirits and having nirvikalpa samadhi spacetime vortex travel, etc.

 

So I went 9 days on just half a glass of water -- the bigu fasting state -- and I healed my mom but I also accidentally pulled this old lady's spirit out of the top of her skull. People were freaking out around me and I had telepathy and telekinesis and precognition. My mom screamed at me super bad because I had been fasting but also because I was exorcising evil spirits from her.

 

haha. That's pretty much it -- except that after going 9 days on just half glass of water I was in this post-death state and I started eating out of dumpsters because that's what poor people do in India, etc. Crazy zen stuff. Then I discovered that I gave females climaxes and they gave me climaxes when I was in full-lotus so I called this the "O at a D" -- orgasm at a distance. It happens automatically and heals the females. I can shoot the energy into males as well but females naturally sublimate through the internal climax.

 

is humility up next...?

[dwai]

Hi Dwai,

 

Long time since we have spoke with each other. I missed you.

 

Yes, from your perspective I do agree with you but from my perspective I, naturally, disagree. Yo is a subset of Wu. Wu is emptiness, that is, full "potential". Yo is the fullness as a result of the interaction of Chi with potential.

 

Yes, Yo was Wu, therefore it was born out of emptiness but in its Yo state it is fullness.

 

I know, we could disagree on this 'til the cows come home so I guess that we should just agree that this is one of the concepts where Taoism and Buddhism are not if full agreement on.

 

Peace & Love!

Nearly all the Taoist listen when I speak. Don't fool yourself and start that BS that I went through with another member recently.

 

Peace & Love!

 

And BTW, apparently there are a number of Buddhist who listen to me as well else I wouldn't get into so many disagreements on this forum.

 

Peace & Love one more time.

 

Hi MH,

 

Nice to interact with you as well. I have a problem with "divorcing" manifested Yo from Wu because even the fullness needs some emptiness to contain it. One cannot fit Full within Full...Full always has to fit into Emptiness.

 

I think Taoism and Buddhism are not at all in contradiction. They both seem to indicate the same thing. Emptiness is needed in order to fill up.

[xabir2005]

From ZenGuide:

 

 

Clangor:

 

Quote: "we hear sounds regardless if we pay attention to them or not."

.........

 

This is not emptiness, though it may happen automatically.

 

Awareness does not exist without an object [of which to be aware of].

 

Once the object exists there is the [imagined] object. This is "aware of".

 

In a sense, one could say 'awareness' and 'emptiness' are the same.

 

 

Shayne:

 

no.....you hear the sound of typing these words you wrote regardless if you want too or not.

 

this is awareness and is something you cannot run too. run away from. improve or negect.

 

it requiures no object.

 

the mind ( the attention ) is what amplifies things.

 

focus on your breathing.

 

the truth lies there.

 

.........

 

sounds arise.

 

their is no listener.

 

they arise as themselves.

 

but what is this listener that people think they have?

 

it is none other then then attention.

 

.........

 

sitting still.

 

listening to the sound of the world.

 

what hears beyond the attention.

 

why awareness hears.

 

the senses.

 

awareness is emptiness and attention is emptiness to a point.

 

emptiness fills the body.

 

awares the world regardless if we want to or not.

 

we are here.

 

..........

 

 

their is no great void.

 

their is nothingness.

 

no one thing ness.

 

this emptiness you speak of springs from the self.

 

when i was a boy of 13 i remember attempting to look for something. i found it. my attention. i looked in the mirror. i looked at my eyes. i looked at my eyebrows....my lips. then i just stopped. my " mind " unfocused and i was pure awareness.

 

when i was a young adult i was without i till i met my ex.

 

now that im 38 i am unpreoccupied with my attention. ive learnt my " lesson "

 

when not thinking the attention dont exist.

 

when not focusing on a particular sense object the attention dont exist.

 

attention is insecureity is doubt.

 

close your eyes.............the eyes naturally open by themselves when you are no longer focusing.

 

what is was and always will be is this moment.

 

bipolar is a conditioning of the mind.

 

i dont believe in the id the ego or the super ego.

 

i dont believe in the subconscious.

 

i dont believe in time.

Edited January 9, 2010 by xabir2005

[voidisyinyang]

Excellent dialog -- describes it very well. What's Zen Guide? Googable? Oh no! It's the underbelly of Taobums

 

http://www.zenguide.com/

 

Ha -- their recommended books does not include Master Nan, Huai-chin. Fools!

 

From ZenGuide:

Clangor:

 

Quote: "we hear sounds regardless if we pay attention to them or not."

.........

 

This is not emptiness, though it may happen automatically.

 

Awareness does not exist without an object [of which to be aware of].

 

Once the object exists there is the [imagined] object. This is "aware of".

 

In a sense, one could say 'awareness' and 'emptiness' are the same.

Shayne:

 

no.....you hear the sound of typing these words you wrote regardless if you want too or not.

 

this is awareness and is something you cannot run too. run away from. improve or negect.

 

it requiures no object.

 

the mind ( the attention ) is what amplifies things.

 

focus on your breathing.

 

the truth lies there.

 

.........

 

sounds arise.

 

their is no listener.

 

they arise as themselves.

 

but what is this listener that people think they have?

 

it is none other then then attention.

 

.........

 

sitting still.

 

listening to the sound of the world.

 

what hears beyond the attention.

 

why awareness hears.

 

the senses.

 

awareness is emptiness and attention is emptiness to a point.

 

emptiness fills the body.

 

awares the world regardless if we want to or not.

 

we are here.

 

..........

their is no great void.

 

their is nothingness.

 

no one thing ness.

 

this emptiness you speak of springs from the self.

 

when i was a boy of 13 i remember attempting to look for something. i found it. my attention. i looked in the mirror. i looked at my eyes. i looked at my eyebrows....my lips. then i just stopped. my " mind " unfocused and i was pure awareness.

 

when i was a young adult i was without i till i met my ex.

 

now that im 38 i am unpreoccupied with my attention. ive learnt my " lesson "

 

when not thinking the attention dont exist.

 

when not focusing on a particular sense object the attention dont exist.

 

attention is insecureity is doubt.

 

close your eyes.............the eyes naturally open by themselves when you are no longer focusing.

 

what is was and always will be is this moment.

 

bipolar is a conditioning of the mind.

 

i dont believe in the id the ego or the super ego.

 

i dont believe in the subconscious.

 

i dont believe in time.

Edited January 9, 2010 by drewhempel

[xabir2005]

 

A few more by Shayne -

what creates is the same question as what hears.

 

i dont believe we create ourselves............not in the first sense.

 

we create our own reality if you may.

 

money for example is a creation of ours we accept as fact.

 

but what hears?

 

me is a word.

 

i is a word.

 

if you get rid of words and use defiantions.....what hears?

 

the sum of all our parts.

 

paying attention to the breath something still hears sounds.

 

what is it?

 

we hear sounds regardless if we pay attention or not.

 

we aware the world wether we like it or not.

 

it is the sum of all our parts.

 

the awareness.

 

and this has nothing to do with the focus or the attention.

 

it is that which sees. hears. feels and tastes all at once.

 

....

 

Awareness is not attention.

 

awareness awares reality ( the immediate nowness ) all at once.

 

everything in it is included.

 

i am new in each instant.

 

i have no philosophy.

 

i focus on nothing.

 

not one thing.

 

pure awareness.

 

....

 

their is no doer.

 

their is just doing.

 

their is no thinker.

 

their is just thought.

 

their is no attention.

 

it is just awareness.

[Lucky7Strikes]

Shayne's wrong. He is reifying a state of awareness as reality.

 

You must be have the ear to hear sounds. And the ear arises from the creative habit of awareness to see itself as a human body, and experience the human realm.

 

what creates is the same question as what hears.

 

i dont believe we create ourselves............not in the first sense.

 

we create our own reality if you may.

 

money for example is a creation of ours we accept as fact.

 

but what hears?

 

me is a word.

 

i is a word.

 

if you get rid of words and use defiantions.....what hears?

 

the sum of all our parts.

 

paying attention to the breath something still hears sounds.

 

what is it?

 

we hear sounds regardless if we pay attention or not.

 

we aware the world wether we like it or not.

 

it is the sum of all our parts.

 

the awareness.

 

and this has nothing to do with the focus or the attention.

 

it is that which sees. hears. feels and tastes all at once.

 

No we must be aware of the world by choice and intent. When awareness cuts through the limitations of the body, it can transition into different states/realms of being. In it, the sounds the body hears is no longer heard. Hearing arises depedently with the conditioned state of awareness.

....

Awareness is not attention.

 

awareness awares reality ( the immediate nowness ) all at once.

 

everything in it is included.

 

i am new in each instant.

 

i have no philosophy.

 

i focus on nothing.

 

not one thing.

 

pure awareness.

 

 

Attention is a form of awareness.

 

The self, a presumed locality of the "I" is always empty, because it arises dependently to whatever the experience is. Not one, not two. . But other than that, it was beautifully written!

 

But Xabir, I'm still waiting for a valid explanation why your paradigm is not determinism, since there is no doer, there is also no free will. According to you, phenomena liberates and enters illusion on its on accord and has always been so.

Edited January 9, 2010 by Lucky7Strikes

[thuscomeone]

Shayne's wrong. He is reifying a state of awareness as reality.

 

You must be have the ear to hear sounds. And the ear arises from the creative habit of awareness to see itself as a human body, and experience the human realm.

No we must be aware of the world by choice and intent. When awareness cuts through the limitations of the body, it can transition into different states/realms of being. In it, the sounds the body hears is no longer heard. Hearing arises depedently with the conditioned state of awareness.

....

Attention is a form of awareness.

 

The self, a presumed locality of the "I" is always empty, because it arises dependently to whatever the experience is. Not one, not two. . But other than that, it was beautifully written!

 

But Xabir, I'm still waiting for a valid explanation why your paradigm is not determinism, since there is no doer, there is also no free will. According to you, phenomena liberates and enters illusion on its on accord and has always been so.

What if there is no free will. So what? What if free will, this constant need to control and choose is actually the cause of much of our suffering? What if letting go, surrendering, not trying to control or manipulate anymore is true freedom? Just a thought...

Edited January 9, 2010 by thuscomeone

[Lucky7Strikes]

What if there is no free will. So what? What if free will, this constant need to control and choose is actually the cause of much of our suffering? What if letting go, surrendering, not trying to control or manipulate anymore is true freedom? Just a thought...

It means everyone is chained to causes and conditions and that Buddhahood is no different than rain falling from the sky.

[xabir2005]

Edited January 9, 2010 by xabir2005

[Marblehead]

Yeah you can watch these amazing vids on people healed by Chunyi Lin:

 

Hi Drew,

 

Thanks for sharing.

 

Yeah, many of us have our experiences and when we find the best explanation (for us) for what happened we stick with it.

 

My experience into Taoism was similar but far less dramatic.

 

And that's the way life is. When we find something that works for us we normally stick with it and defend it whenever necessary.

 

Keep up your good work!

 

Peace & Love!

 

 

Hi MH,

 

Nice to interact with you as well. I have a problem with "divorcing" manifested Yo from Wu because even the fullness needs some emptiness to contain it. One cannot fit Full within Full...Full always has to fit into Emptiness.

 

Yes, there is a paradox there, I admit. That is why Lao Tzu is often referred to as the King of the Paradox. It's not really divorced though - it is simply a different, and identifiable, realm, or 'state' as Dr. Wang described.

 

I think Taoism and Buddhism are not at all in contradiction. They both seem to indicate the same thing. Emptiness is needed in order to fill up.

 

I agree. The differences appear more often, IMO, when there are misunderstandings of the words we use.

 

And I agree, emptiness was a necessity in order for fullness to manifest. And even the changes in the Manifest are totally dependant on Emptiness.

 

Peace & Love!

 

 

Excellent dialog -- describes it very well. What's Zen Guide? Googable? Oh no! It's the underbelly of Taobums

 

I didn't want to repeat the whole thing but I agree. Excellent thoughts. I would question some of them but not here and not now.

 

Peace & Love!

 

 

Shayne's wrong. He is reifying a state of awareness as reality.

 

So Lucky did the questioning. Hehehe. That's good too.

 

Peace & Love!

 

 

What if there is no free will. So what? What if free will, this constant need to control and choose is actually the cause of much of our suffering? What if letting go, surrendering, not trying to control or manipulate anymore is true freedom? Just a thought...

 

I think you have touched on one of the most important differences between Buddhist and Taoist philosophy. Do we have free will and even if we do, does it matter?

 

Do we try to change things or do we accept things?

 

But even making our choice at this level we are still exercising our free will.

 

Peace & Love!

[Lucky7Strikes]

Edited January 9, 2010 by Lucky7Strikes

[xabir2005]

Edited January 10, 2010 by xabir2005