The Tao is Super-Commonsense

[River Gazer]

Back and fourth in debate, a thousand times less than many, but holds no ground.

 

The Tao exists as obscurity. A truth we recite. But why does it exist in obscurity?

 

The least of way preaches, and offers no wisdom, followed by fanatics.

A middling way advises, and offers some reason, followed by scholars.

A great way appears simple, yet carries precious gems of truth, followed by what can only be called fools.

 

The way speaks obscurity, because it is necessary. When ten-thousand rove, swords in hand, bend from an upbringing, only obscurity can speak and survive. There is no special meaning. And yet there it, wisdom as deep as an ocean, and fast as a river.

 

Who knows the Eternal Way. What we can know is the cultivations of our contemplations. The product of a life of curiosity.

 

In times of spite, the way is peace.

In times of weakness, the way is strength.

In times of extravagance, the way is simple.

 

In times of great towers, the Way is the lowlands.

Since great towers have risen since days as old as man's understanding of the Tao,

long before the writers we adore,

It is with assurity that the Way is the lowlands.

 

But its details you must ponder, and you reap the rewards of the simple, and strengths and freedoms.

 

Unless you can see a reason, you should not strive.

Not even to not-strive.

 

 

 

The human is more intelligent than the gauge of his soul.

He is mad.

[Marblehead]

Hi River Gazer,

 

What a fantastic, paradoxical post. Hehehe.

 

Truth often lies in its own paradox.

 

I would suggest that Tao is not obscure though. We can observe it in the Manifest. The processes in the Manifest can be directly associated to all other realms of Tao. this is why we are told to observe and understand the processes in Nature.

 

Peace & Love!

[River Gazer]

Simplicity appears obscure in complexity.

The Tao is huts and hunts and grasses and gathers.

Why this is so is entirely relative to the human's gauge of soul.

Just because we can, doesn't mean we should.

We lack the depth of mind to walk any further without a cost.

[River Gazer]

We, as the human race, have maps of our universe. I know this because I keep track.

Ask yourself: Does a race that can't even accept, lets say, homosexuals, just for an example, deserve to know the furthest corners of all-that-is?

 

We can't even accept that contracepted sexuality is harmless, but we would claim to deserve to know all-that-is, from the furthest corners of the universe, the the construct of sub-matter, quarks and such.

Give me a kill, a fire, a cave and some tail... I'll do fine

[Tao99]

I would suggest that Tao is not obscure though. We can observe it in the Manifest. The processes in the Manifest can be directly associated to all other realms of Tao. this is why we are told to observe and understand the processes in Nature.

 

Hi, Call me crazy and in need of a diagnosis, but isn't the Tao both obscure, as mystery (wu), and not obscure, as manifest (you)? So sometimes someone will say "Oh how obscure is the Tao!" where what they mean is the mystery of it. But of course, the tao can never be rightly described in one sentence, because the tao is both a and not-a.

 

Anyway, nice high-level poetry river gazer.

Edited January 7, 2010 by Tao99

[rex]

The way speaks obscurity, because it is necessary. When ten-thousand rove, swords in hand, bend from an upbringing, only obscurity can speak and survive. There is no special meaning. And yet there it, wisdom as deep as an ocean, and fast as a river.

This reminds me of how the I Ching evaded successive purges throughout Chinese history as it was just seen as a book of common fortune telling by the roving ten-thousand. Edited January 7, 2010 by rex

[LukeMC]

We, as the human race, have maps of our universe. I know this because I keep track.

Ask yourself: Does a race that can't even accept, lets say, homosexuals, just for an example, deserve to know the furthest corners of all-that-is?

 

We can't even accept that contracepted sexuality is harmless, but we would claim to deserve to know all-that-is, from the furthest corners of the universe, the the construct of sub-matter, quarks and such.

Give me a kill, a fire, a cave and some tail... I'll do fine

 

You seem to be sweeping all of humanity with the same brush. Must a scientist with a pure heart be condemned to ignorance because some people elsewhere are bigots? There isn't a "humanity" in the singular sense by which you can generalise everyone (apart from biologically I suppose). The universe is out there and much of it is knowable (first premise of science). Who are we not to venture into the cosmos and see what awaits? Why are all humans forbidden the pursuit of knowledge due to the actions of some?

[Marblehead]

We, as the human race, have maps of our universe. I know this because I keep track.

Ask yourself: Does a race that can't even accept, lets say, homosexuals, just for an example, deserve to know the furthest corners of all-that-is?

 

That is something I had to fight with for a very long time.

 

The fight had to do with putting my expectations and standards on others. It is wrong to do so, of course. But then, we should hold to our own standards lest we become a hypocrite or a bigot.

 

I am always looking for a beautiful female alien who would love to make love with me. I haven't found any yet but that doesn't mean none exist.

 

Peace & Love!

 

 

Hi, Call me crazy and in need of a diagnosis, but isn't the Tao both obscure, as mystery (wu), and not obscure, as manifest (you)? So sometimes someone will say "Oh how obscure is the Tao!" where what they mean is the mystery of it. But of course, the tao can never be rightly described in one sentence, because the tao is both a and not-a.

 

Anyway, nice high-level poetry river gazer.

 

No, you are not crazy. I just stayed at a basic understanding in my post. Yes, the Mystery is mysterious - that is why it is called the Mystery. The Mystery is potential. It has not yet manifested. I suggest that no one know what any aspect of the Mystery will become into manifestation until after it had manifested itself.

 

So, yes, the Mystery is obscured by the fact that it has not yet desplayed itself for observation.

 

And I agree that Tao can never be rightly described because all we can talk about is that small aspect of Tao that has presented itself in the Manifest - the "a" but we really can't talk about the "not-a", can we?

 

Peace & Love!

 

 

You seem to be sweeping all of humanity with the same brush. Must a scientist with a pure heart be condemned to ignorance because some people elsewhere are bigots? There isn't a "humanity" in the singular sense by which you can generalise everyone (apart from biologically I suppose). The universe is out there and much of it is knowable (first premise of science). Who are we not to venture into the cosmos and see what awaits? Why are all humans forbidden the pursuit of knowledge due to the actions of some?

 

Excellent post.

 

Indeed, we always error whenever we stereotype or claim that there are universals. We should investigate what is knowable. And to my understanding that is the entire manifst plane of essence, the stars and galaxies included. And I agree, just because some religion teaches that the Earth is the center of the universe does not make that teaching a true teaching. Observation and investigation has proven that understanding to be incorrect.

 

Peace & Love!

[3bob]

The old Zen story goes something like this: The Zen master and a student were walking in the woods, when they noticed ducks flying overhead.

 

"What do you see," the Zen master asked the student. "Ducks," the student answered. "Where did they go," asked the Zen master. "They flew away," replied the student. The Zen master grabbed the student's nose and twisted it, and as the student cried out in pain,

 

...the Zen master said, "When have ducks ever flown away?"

[River Gazer]

I'll tell ya, prehistory aint as bad as it's made out. Furs are warm, game was plentiful, there was room to live by the sea, wild food grew everywhere, and tail was easy.

 

Moreover, research indicates that a stoneage 'work-day' was about 3 hours. If that.

 

I am not a fortunate son, and I abhor that I am not allowed to live this ancient way.

[goldisheavy]

We, as the human race, have maps of our universe. I know this because I keep track.

Ask yourself: Does a race that can't even accept, lets say, homosexuals, just for an example, deserve to know the furthest corners of all-that-is?

 

We can't even accept that contracepted sexuality is harmless, but we would claim to deserve to know all-that-is, from the furthest corners of the universe, the the construct of sub-matter, quarks and such.

Give me a kill, a fire, a cave and some tail... I'll do fine

 

You're not the one who gets to decide what people deserve. Give them all the treasures you can, and let them carry what they can carry. If you make a judgment on someone's capacity before you even try sharing, you're the one in error. People are mysterious. If you are convinced someone is a hopeless fool, you are hopeless. All things are constantly brimming with potential.

[River Gazer]

I simply know the lessons of Icarus from patient pondering, and from lessons learn well early in my life, not often repeated.

 

Great Towers. The Lowlands. I have made a choice, and well, and I advise. Much more conversation will have to take play to go into details why.

[LukeMC]

I'll tell ya, prehistory aint as bad as it's made out. Furs are warm, game was plentiful, there was room to live by the sea, wild food grew everywhere, and tail was easy.

 

Moreover, research indicates that a stoneage 'work-day' was about 3 hours. If that.

 

I am not a fortunate son, and I abhor that I am not allowed to live this ancient way.

 

What can you tell me about disease and medication in prehistory? Why was the average human life less than half the length it is now? Life as hunter-gatherers can by no means be called a walk in the park. It may be that you've indulged in too much fiction. Of course, I have no real idea as to why you believe prehistoric life was pseudo-utopian. What are your sources?

[seththewhite]

I want to meet so many of you so very much.

 

Let's begin a Taoism gathering in Austin, TX!!

(you see, im poor and vehicle-less )

[New Dawn Fades]

[soundhunter]

What can you tell me about disease and medication in prehistory? Why was the average human life less than half the length it is now? Life as hunter-gatherers can by no means be called a walk in the park. It may be that you've indulged in too much fiction. Of course, I have no real idea as to why you believe prehistoric life was pseudo-utopian. What are your sources?

 

In the fascinating book The Continuum Concept which is a look at the parenting practices of stone age indians in the south american jungle, she would describe their lives pretty similarly actually. In the particular tribe she spent time with, they had MUCH leisure time, they did not work very much, no more than was necessary to survive. 3 hour work day sounds about right. Interestingly, they seemed quite "Taoist" in that they did not coerce any members to do anything, including children. People did their meaningful work, children ran around undisciplined like wild things, and joined in with their elders once they desired to be with the grownups.

 

Though another fascinating book, Light at the Edge of the World by the author of Serpent and the Rainbow and a very well travelled ethnobotanist who has spent time with a very large range of tribal peoples describes different ways that different tribes lived, and some of them have horrible lives by any standards, where their lifespan is very short because they regularly stab each other, for instance.

 

I think some early man lived better than we do, some not so much. Just as it is today, though our overcrowding and workaholic ways does seem to be killing much of what humans have traditionally considered to be fun..like access to nature and leisure time.

[River Gazer]

Thank you New Dawn Fades. Nice to see some other primals in here.

 

 

Disease? None. Colds. Crabs... Bout it.

 

The only time people get sick is when they do stupid shait such as fecating in their water supply. And i can speak for the stone-age way. Maybe it's a family trait, but i do things like eat whole 8 oz bottles of horseradish, and drink the blood left over from roasts. I don't get colds, the flu happens every 5 or 10 years and passes in 12 to 36 hours. I wouldn't be surprised if I could survive the black plague. Not that i do it on a regular basis, but all that medium-rare pork or chicken means in a stomach ache that can usually be killed with enough coffee.

 

The simply truth is in the stone-age we were new to human ways. Instincts related to this form were undeveloped, so we occasionally did stupid shit, combined with the insanity of being to smart for our own good. If you include deaths during infancy (the weak days) we had a lifespan of 35. If you disclude deaths before 3 or 4 years, we lived to 55 - 60.

 

Since human instincts have had time, despite specifically Europe (cholera lol) (effin' white people eh?), to develop, would you eat your own shait or fecate in your water supply? Not likely. If there is any chance, well, better just go back to the bronze or iron age.

Better just to ask how long YOU'D live.

Me personally, I'd say 10-15% chance of infant death, otherwise age 65.

 

Medication for the most part was herbs, which are more effective that they would seem to be, but a bit less than neo-hippies make them out to be. Besides, nothing clears up a cold like a big cup of broth.

 

 

I'll take the violent-ass society if it means i don't have to work.

[LukeMC]

In the fascinating book The Continuum Concept which is a look at the parenting practices of stone age indians in the south american jungle, she would describe their lives pretty similarly actually. In the particular tribe she spent time with, they had MUCH leisure time, they did not work very much, no more than was necessary to survive. 3 hour work day sounds about right. Interestingly, they seemed quite "Taoist" in that they did not coerce any members to do anything, including children. People did their meaningful work, children ran around undisciplined like wild things, and joined in with their elders once they desired to be with the grownups.

 

It does sound fascinating indeed and I'll be sure to find a copy to read. I never doubted that there were exceptions such as this, I merely contend that all prehistoric tribespeople lived utopian lives. Thanks for the suggestion

 

Disease? None. Colds. Crabs... Bout it.

 

The only time people get sick is when they do stupid shait such as fecating in their water supply.

 

That's a bold claim indeed. One thing that can be said for the prehistoric peoples is that they didn't destroy their bodies with the unhealthy trash we tend to feed on nowadays and they were required to be physically fit just to live. While I believe this to be true, I doubt that they were immune to disease.

 

Attention Normals! If you can step away from your numbness long enough to really look around you

 

the only thing that gives our tired twisted old nervous systems a thrill is the thought that we can buy MORE THINGS.

 

There are degrees of aliveness, you can be not only stupid but 90% dead and still hold down a conspiracy 9 to 5 job. Your body keeps checking in, functioning on 10% of your life essence, while the conspiracy gets the rest, you morons.

 

How high is your horse, englightened one? You speak with what appears to be much hatred in your heart. Very quick to condemn people as numb, stupid, dead, gullible, hypnotized. I think the only thing scarier than the thought of a conspiracy is the idea that there ISN'T a conspiracy, and that this is really the best we can do. No secrets, nothing hidden. What you see is what you get, and the people in control are just like everybody else with good intentions.

[River Gazer]

There wasn't a population large enough to sustain disease. It's why there was not disease amongst native americans. The worst that happened on any notable occurrence is a bird carries the cold over the ocean, and a tribe or two gets the sniffles.

[New Dawn Fades]

How high is your horse, englightened one? You speak with what appears to be much hatred in your heart. Very quick to condemn people as numb, stupid, dead, gullible, hypnotized. I think the only thing scarier than the thought of a conspiracy is the idea that there ISN'T a conspiracy, and that this is really the best we can do. No secrets, nothing hidden. What you see is what you get, and the people in control are just like everybody else with good intentions.

 

That post of mine was copied from Church of the Subgenius literature and edited by me. The Church of the Subgenius is the ONLY church worth being a member of. In any case, they are right on and I agree with what they say, including that most people are somewhat crazy, and most are also somewhat sick, physically, emotionally, and mentally. Many, more and more, are very sick.

 

There is a conspiracy, but even if there wasn't one I doubt it would make much difference to the man on the street. Of course our vaunted medical system does some good things for some people, no question, but it mainly extends the bad years for those that are poisoned, and now more and more, people are being poisoned by the prescription drugs themselves.

 

The question of who is in control is a good one. Who is at the top of the conspiracy? There is a credible theory that it is aliens. However, my new teacher, a Shaolin grandmaster who is 98 now and is an insider to the CIA, thinks it is the Lamprey lipped bankers.

Edited January 10, 2010 by New Dawn Fades