SIFU-ANDREAS-OLD,NEW, INFO,MO -PAI,JOHN CHANG

[Peterminator]

It was www.lunghushan.com but not anymore. You can find some parts in web archive through google.

[gendao]

Biff - Thanks. Yea, I'm not going to try to practice that or even real MoPai right now. For some reason it just hasn't resonated with me yet. However I do find some of its instructions and "dogma" interesting, informative and possibly applicable in parts nonetheless.

I've corresponded with the individual who wrote that article. It is interesting, and I am not sure where he learned taoist practice. But he said that after writing that book, he got a heart attack from the ( MoPai) practices which he theorizes of in that article, which forced him to change his outlook on it. It certainly is risky when you have no master present to gauge your energy.

On another matter:

 

An interesting point that Kosta writes in his "Warrior Sages", is that according to him, MoPai meditation does not involve any kind of mantra use or visualization. I can perhaps understand the exclusion of mantras, but even simple pranayama requires a degree of visualization and concentration.

Well, I've heard it rumored that real MoPai can cause heart problems too. Which makes me wonder why exactly, if true? Is this due to errors by the practitioners...or is there an error or inherent risk in the system itself? Edited January 12, 2010 by vortex

[fizix]

From what I've heard, yes heart problems can occur as a result of improper practice with the Mo Pai system; for example, hypothetically, if one were to start level 1 and only practiced on their 5th story apartment, their yin/yang will be imbalanced; more fire than water, and serious (ie: cardiac, dan tien horror stories, including permanent damage) problems can ensue. However, that's just one example of incorrect technique,

[Reader]

I think we can safely start from horse standing exercise and meditation on emptiness.

[electric chi magnet]

What do u mean BY "antichrist training manual"?!!!?!!?!!?!!?...i MEAN REALLY?

Edited January 13, 2010 by electric chi magnet

[Reader]

What do u mean BY "antichrist training manual"?!!!?!!?!!?!!?...i MEAN REALLY?

 

Here is the Google link for Antichrist Training Manual

 

You can read most of the book there.

[Orochi]

Well, I've heard it rumored that real MoPai can cause heart problems too. Which makes me wonder why exactly, if true? Is this due to errors by the practitioners...or is there an error or inherent risk in the system itself?

 

Those are legitimate questions. One aspect I have wondered about Mo Pai, is the practice of accumulating chi or prana in the LDT. Now I understand this is common amongst many Taoist practices, however there are also Hermetic traditions which dissuade the accumulation of Chi in any specific area, since it is believed to cause imbalance. There also may be a big difference between concentration on the LDT, as opposed to a herculean effort to press and accumulate energy in that Chakra. Further then to rip that Chakra out of its normal vibration, by supposedly cutting the "cords" which hold it in place, sounds very extreme in any case.

Edited January 13, 2010 by Orochi

[Gerard]

durkhrod,

 

I know you said you can't give more clues, but I really wonder about something. You say stay away from Mt. Wudang, but you seem to respect the Bee Daoist, and I gathered that he lives on Wudang. So, what gives?

 

Dao Zhen had some funny stories about how tourist centered the place had become, but that doesn't mean there aren't high level people there (Bee Daoist being a case-in-point). As far as I'm concerned the question is not will you find a fully accomplished immortal that will teach you there (as you say, that is yuanfen anyway), but can you get better instruction in authentic Taoism there than anywhere in the West?

 

 

Yes I said it because it is a circus the Chinese have set up the main area to create a huge business in order to attract Western capital. There are hermits but away from the main monastic area. That's why I said to stay away because finding them is not an easy task. Good luck if you still want to visit Wudang shan.

 

Yes, in the West (and anywhere in the world that causes stress) there is no real neigong, too much mental pollution caused by technology and modern communication. It is mandatory to achieve very high level to go on long term retreat in the mountains. I hope this answers your question.

...................................

 

I still practice ZZ even though in the past I quit its practice due to liver chi stagnation that I to fix with herbs.

 

 

Good luck.

 

 

 

Edited: added new stuff.

Edited January 13, 2010 by durkhrod chogori

[Chen]

Don't.

Level 1.... No it isnt.

Level 2.... No it isnt.

Improper breathing is A REAL problem.

All that described WRONG.

Attention.

Attention.

All about health problems correct.

Compressing chi has rules. Side effect is even Death.

DONT practise from books. Check behind it.Check author for background experience.

Dont buy Levels.

When ready, knowledge will come for free.

[Gerard]

Gee. I dislike the way this forum is set up when it comes time to edit messages. Very confusing.

Edited January 13, 2010 by durkhrod chogori

[gendao]

I still practice ZZ even though in the past I quit its practice due to liver chi stagnation that I to fix with herbs.

Interesting, what made you think ZZ caused that? I thought it was great for energy accumulation and clearing channels in general?

[electric chi magnet]

edit

Edited January 14, 2010 by electric chi magnet

[Reader]

Improper breathing is A REAL problem.

 

Can you say a little bit more about this? What would be the proper ones?

[Gerard]

Interesting, what made you think ZZ caused that? I thought it was great for energy accumulation and clearing channels in general?

 

No I never said that. ZZ brought up the underlying condition. You need a gentle appproach using Yin energy (herbs) to tackle all that fire burning the energy/qi of the liver (wood). ZZ alone cannot fix liver Qi stagnation.

[Chen]

Can you say a little bit more about this? What would be the proper ones?

Well ,in my undertanding the person who wrote the "manual of Ant..." just took or listen,about the Levels.

As he claims he had a heart atack practicing the Mo-Pai stuf.That means that he was practsing at least 7-8 years.and deffently he was level 2 as level 2 is the only level with these side effects.

Although the exersice for level 1 is very simple and harmless ,he propably describes what he is amble to understand from kosta book and thats all. Also he describes the half lotus posture as "seating down with crossed legs". That means again that either he has a complete ignorance of of the basic stuf or when he was writting he was bored to explain it.

As it consern the breathing maybe he took the sequence and timing from other books irrelative with Mo-pai.

I dont claim that this breathing is wrong but if its wrong you will sock your organism for good.

About the stories that the Level 2 can create health problems ,deffently YES.

I have witnessed 2 cases of serius problems, such as the bloackage of throat chakra that was healed from Sifu and another case that the inner tranformation of another practioner almost killed him.

I really dont know if it was due to wrong practise,or a side effect caused of the nature of this kind of practise.

Thats why I wrote not to be practissed from books of uncertain origin.

[Baguakid]

No I never said that. ZZ brought up the underlying condition. You need a gentle appproach using Yin energy (herbs) to tackle all that fire burning the energy/qi of the liver (wood). ZZ alone cannot fix liver Qi stagnation.

 

 

Depends on what type of ZZ you're doing. Also, what's the underlying cause of the Liver Qi stagnation.

 

I've been though the whole route for years and years. Herbs, Acupuncture, Massage, Qigong, Kung fu, etc, etc....

 

Best combination is proper diet and ZZ.

[Gerard]

Me too. Years and years doing ZZ until I took herbs and then the condition greatly improved. However I still live in busy society and I am a fire horse, so need to be careful with stress and overactivity. Herbs have helped me a lot more then other methods.

Edited January 15, 2010 by durkhrod chogori

[Guest 3rdlevelmopai]

I can support this because of my own training. It took me 13 months to achieve the 81 hours, but I may have been in a deeper state of meditation because for a long time my legs would only allow me to sit for a half hour at a time per day. So people are different and it how long it takes depends upon the person. Someone may do it sooner as well.

[gendao]

I can support this because of my own training. It took me 13 months to achieve the 81 hours, but I may have been in a deeper state of meditation because for a long time my legs would only allow me to sit for a half hour at a time per day. So people are different and it how long it takes depends upon the person. Someone may do it sooner as well.

According to this book (which is apparently based on some MoPai rumors, but claims not to be "official" or authentic MoPai)...level 3 is where you cut the cords locking your dantian in place, which allows yin qi to escape outside your body - which then confers siddhis like iron body, levitation & walking on water (p 20-23).

 

If you have achieved level 3, care to comment on any of this?

[fizix]

Buncha Malarkey. Mostly. Antichrist training manual = total horse pucky. My condolences to any who have wasted their precious time with it's tomfoolery. So many preposterous shenanigans surrounding the mo pai. The aforementioned description of level 3 is not accurate.

Edited April 23, 2010 by fizix

[sabretooth]

I can support this because of my own training. It took me 13 months to achieve the 81 hours, but I may have been in a deeper state of meditation because for a long time my legs would only allow me to sit for a half hour at a time per day. So people are different and it how long it takes depends upon the person. Someone may do it sooner as well.

 

Hello 3rdlevelmopai,

how long did it take you to complete level two?.

 

many thank's

 

 

sabretooth.

[gendao]

I can support this because of my own training. It took me 13 months to achieve the 81 hours, but I may have been in a deeper state of meditation because for a long time my legs would only allow me to sit for a half hour at a time per day. So people are different and it how long it takes depends upon the person. Someone may do it sooner as well.

Wow, that is quite impressive then!

 

But, how long TOTAL were you meditating per day?

 

For another benchmark, here is an approximate timeline of how long it took "John Chang" to reach the first few levels (according to "The Magus Of Java"):

 

Age

10: Meets Sifu Liao Zu Tong & trains daily with him for 8 years (p 37)

14: Starts Level 1 training (p 38)

19: Completes Level 1 (p 39)

?: Completes Level 2

31: Completes Level 3 (p 43 & 97)

32: Completes Level 4 (p 43)

 

So, it took him 5 years alone to complete Level 1...and 13 more to complete Level 4! Keep in mind that he also married at 18, has 7 kids & runs a business, too! So you can see, these arts are super marathon training, not sprints. Success requires an almost superhuman amount of dedication & endurance.