Tao Bums Moderation And Steve

[Guest winpro07]

gossip, rumor and innuendo increase the profits of a business like this. Any kind of buzz is good as it all will bring people. Gotta stay high on those search list!

 

moderation is tame because it reduces traffic and advertiser value.

 

Agendas are very welcome here. That is why new dawn fades has persisted so long. Your conscience tells you that decrease of propriety for the sake of cash profit is bad for everyone.

 

What is the long term personal effect of loss of propriety.

I know for one, it enables lying.

[thelerner]

gossip, rumor and innuendo increase the profits of a business like this. Any kind of buzz is good as it all will bring people. Gotta stay high on those search list!

 

moderation is tame because it reduces traffic and advertiser value.

 

Agendas are very welcome here. That is why new dawn fades has persisted so long. Your conscience tells you that decrease of propriety for the sake of cash profit is bad for everyone.

 

What is the long term personal effect of loss of propriety.

I know for one, it enables lying.

 

I thought that was Sean with the other moderators driving a Rolls down 5th avenue

 

Sometimes you gotta kill'em (delete'em) all and let god sort them out.

 

95% of the time, we look back (a few months later) at the hot topics and infuriating posts and we're struck with the thought 'What the hell was I thinking? Why did I allow myself to get bent out of shape over such a stupid point."

 

Michael

[Guest winpro07]

I have no emotion for any of this.

 

I did something that had to be done.

 

I am not "pushing buttons" or picking a fight.

 

Just calling it like it is...

 

When communities form unspoken social rules that overrule psychic experience and prevent real vision.

 

People begin seeing the mask that everyone wears to fit into their social environment instead of the real intent of the being behind that mask.

 

Once people become very numbed by purely externalized communication they begin to tell lies about them selves because they have become certain that no one can see them any more.

 

It's this belief:

"My mind is inside my head and no one can see it" & "therefor it is private"

 

The lower mind in reality constantly channels into and out from every body. There is a constant exchange going on, no privacy, no secrets and really no way to lie.

 

When people serve or perpetuate agenda they are still acting from behind that mask of persona.

 

I am aware of that mask but do not see it.

What I see is the being and their intent.

Intent is divided in two parts in this world

Benevolent or malevolent.

 

As long as we exist in duality our ability is bound to a force from outside that determines what we intent Benevolent or malevolent, Creation or Destruction, Love or hate.

 

From this place it is easy to see that only a handful out of millions has ever intended anything at all making their whole existence an accident.

Edited January 10, 2010 by winpro07

[Stigweard]

One of the true arts of leadership is the ability to take "corrective feedback."

 

We have listened carefully to the sentiments expressed here and have decided to set in stone a protocol that we will never delete a members post. I think Trunk's words sum up our feelings here:

 

... as I said before, [if posts are deleted] the primary ability "to post"... the confidence in that being theirs, is undermined. Undermines confidence in the whole premise of a discussion board: their primary right to post. Add to that that it's in the middle of a contentious issue (like KL) and it's an action that can really blow up. Lesson learned.

 

I would add that we are here first and foremostly in service to this forum. We're here because of our deep appreciation and enjoyment of what The TaoBums means to us, and what it means to you. I know Mal has jokingly said that this is a benevolent dictatorship, however I see it personally as the exact opposite. Speaking at least for myself, being a moderator is the lowest rung on the ladder here, we are servants whose primary directive is to provide each member the best experience possible. As servants though, sometimes we do have to do the dirty work of taking out the trash.

[Guest winpro07]

very well put

[三江源]

Very groovy.

[Owledge]

Moderators, I am very proud of you. You honor the theme of this forum.

 

Oh my god... talking about pride and honor ... what am I doing?!

 

 

 

I have no emotion for any of this.

 

I did something that had to be done.

 

I am not "pushing buttons" or picking a fight.

 

Just calling it like it is...

Your posting is generally very inspring, but this part made my bullshit detector go crazy for a moment.

 

 

What I see is the being and their intent.

And when people believe this, they'd better be very sure that what they see is what is, and not a projection. I occasionally face this problem, too: I have the feeling that I can look behind a veil and reach a deeper understanding, but without being able to do a verification first, I have to consider that it's just self-deception and leave it 'unsolved' for the time being.

[Trunk]

I know I haven't posted much directly in this thread, but (as the quote above indicates) I've been listening and considering and hashing out w/ the other moderators. Many good points already made. The potential confusion caused by deleted posts being one of the most important, imo.

 

Just to be clear on this,

Given the most extreme example, even if a post were several lines of pure strong-profane personal attack (yup, it happens), what would happen is that a moderator would edit out ... well, in that case, the whole text or very nearly - and would put a note in that it was edited by the moderator (& why) and would leave the post actually there. Not delete the post.

 

We would never edit out any text of any substance. If a post were part profane, part substance, the substance stays. And any moderator's edit gets a note within the post that it occurred, and why.

 

Meaning, there are still rules. You can't say anything and have it stick. Even if the rules are relatively very permissive - as was Sean's original intent as the foundation for the forum, and what we as moderators abide by. We're not trying to change that basic intent: then it wouldn't be TTB's. TTB's plays it's role as an open forum and it's a valuable role. "Loose as a goose."

 

The only exception where we'd delete posts was noted by Mal:

However that's for the stuff we are moderating, we should still delete multiple posts and double threads etc, that just simple housekeeping

... meaning, for example, sometimes people accidentally post 5 identical 'hello' posts in the lobby (somehow missing that their posts actually took). We'd of course delete 4 of those. Same goes for double posts of threads in the main areas.

 

Hope we've all sorted through and brought some clarity.

 

,

Trunk

[Guest winpro07]

behind the laser like projections of intent is the self. There can never be any doubt about perception of it because it is always the same I-Am. This is where individuality/mind ceases and intent become obvious.

 

The real mystery is "reason for intent?" ego diminishes from self realization and along with it the resistance that generates lower emotion or imbalance that hold the stomach in nervousness. Without the constant drive of carnal desire the heart begins to flower, true nature rises and contentment resides. True desire may rise from the heart but not very often.

 

...having the ability to intend anything and no desire to

is living a paradox

Edited January 10, 2010 by winpro07

[三江源]

 

 

 

Your posting is generally very inspring, but this part made my bullshit detector go crazy for a moment.

 

 

 

Hi HardyG. You said above in relation to winpro saying "I did something that had to be done."

Funny you pick up on that - I was wandering down to the shops earlier and thinking about this thread, and how Mal used the word 'escalate' in relation to Winpro. I thought about it more and about how Winpro really was set up to 'escalate' things.. it was the inevitable dynamic.

 

..goad..

..goad..

..goad..

..goad..

..Explode!

 

..and the exploder gets 'told off' - how familiar is this, from family scenarios with kids around?!

 

"oh daaad, he started it!"

 

Family dynamics, on the board. As everywhere.

No bullshit, therefore. Things had to come to a head, that was the way out of it, and Winpro did it.

 

Anyway, I dont want to perpetuate the discussion, just wanted to point out a bit of the dynamics.

 

Apart from that, I just made a cake with swede in it. How groovy is that ?!?!?!?

[Owledge]

@cat

In a forum I once was active that turned very oppressive and totalitarian, this happened from time to time. I wonder whether it tells us anything about the participants of an argument when one can turn the 'people in charge' against the other. Isn't that the trickery often mentioned in regards to ... eh ... DEMONS!!!

 

Apart from that, I just made a cake with swede in it. How groovy is that ?!?!?!?

I think it is now "swedish cake".

I also think it is not nice to kill Swedes to make food out of them.

 

 

By the way... (off topic) I find it funny how people on the internet don't care about capital letters, but many people write my nickname with an uppercase "G", although I typed it with a lowercase one. As another clue, the "H" is uppercase, signaling that I did care about capital letters and thus the lowercase "g" is intentional.

Actually my name is Thomas, and the nickname "Hardyg" is a long and boring story.

I guess the whole thing is a case of Finagle's Law of Dynamic Negatives.

[Trunk]

Your avatar shifted from elemental practice to bagua zhang!

 

 

My xing yi teacher used to say,

"Tai chi is a rubber ball,

xing yi is an iron ball,

and ba gua is a wire ball"

(that is, always turning and spinning)

[JustARandomPanda]

 

Hi HardyG. You said above in relation to winpro saying "I did something that had to be done."

Funny you pick up on that - I was wandering down to the shops earlier and thinking about this thread, and how Mal used the word 'escalate' in relation to Winpro. I thought about it more and about how Winpro really was set up to 'escalate' things.. it was the inevitable dynamic.

 

..goad..

..goad..

..goad..

..goad..

..Explode!

 

..and the exploder gets 'told off' - how familiar is this, from family scenarios with kids around?!

 

"oh daaad, he started it!"

 

Family dynamics, on the board. As everywhere.

No bullshit, therefore. Things had to come to a head, that was the way out of it, and Winpro did it.

 

Anyway, I dont want to perpetuate the discussion, just wanted to point out a bit of the dynamics.

 

Apart from that, I just made a cake with swede in it. How groovy is that ?!?!?!?

 

Society expects people to develop grace under pressure. It's the ideal. Adults are supposed to have extraordinary amounts of it. Little children nearly none. But to get to the ideal one has to practice it. This is why you see this seeming inequity. It's why you see people in relationships where one takes an incredible amount of "abuse" from someone else. What I say is "abuse" may be something someone else has learned to take with unflappable grace. This is true in families and it's true in society at large. The rule of thumb (all members of society must develop the practice of grace under pressure) is enshrined even in most western democracy's criminal code.

[Tao99]

If 'grace under pressure' is so important it would be in the forum rules. I think they call that 'rule creep' - start out with 5 rules, and end up with 105.

 

It's alright to stand up for yourself.

 

It's alright to make a stand for your way.

 

It's alright to be displeased with someone's misinformation and respond to it.

 

It's alright to be displeased with someone's insults and respond to it.

 

And with as little grace as you want.

 

None of that is against forum rules.

 

What's not alright, is personal insults, etc.

Edited January 10, 2010 by Tao99

[Owledge]

What's not alright, is personal insults, etc.

By the way... Another good policy would be to remove 'personal insults' when people complain about it (to the moderators) or at least show they feel insulted, because an insult takes two parties. Some people are above insult. I think subversive lies, slander and things like that are much more appalling than what some people call insults, because in the latter case, it's easy to identify it as what it is.

[Marblehead]

In my personal 'real' life I do not tolerate personal insults. I see no reason why I would accept such disrespect on an internet forum. No, I don't go crying to momma, I hit back. That is called getting down in the gutter with the gutter people.

 

If personal (not to a thought or a concept) insults are allowed by one person they must be allowed by everyone. If they are denied to one member they must be denied to all members.

 

That's all I got to say.

 

Peace & Love!

[三江源]

 

Society expects people to develop grace under pressure. It's the ideal. Adults are supposed to have extraordinary amounts of it. Little children nearly none. But to get to the ideal one has to practice it. This is why you see this seeming inequity. It's why you see people in relationships where one takes an incredible amount of "abuse" from someone else. What I say is "abuse" may be something someone else has learned to take with unflappable grace. This is true in families and it's true in society at large. The rule of thumb (all members of society must develop the practice of grace under pressure) is enshrined even in most western democracy's criminal code.

 

 

 

 

 

Hi SereneBlue. In situations where an uncomfortable amount of 'grace under pressure' is regularly expected, it is epidemic to find symptoms, where the pressure, inevitably, is internalised and somatised. Eczema, Asthma, High Blood Pressure, Neurosis, the list is endless.

Usually there is some sort of 'pressure release valve' that the system forces into being. Whether it be someone becoming an alcoholic, drug addict, ending up in hospital or ending up on prozac, or whatever. All systems do what needs to be done, in whatever way possible. Pressure builds up and has to be released.

In this context it has built up several times and only, I think , this time, has the dynamic shifted, so that the same old script wont be run again. Winpro shifted it.

 

Hardyg....

[Mal]

[Owledge]

A propos Prozac... it is suspencted to cause violent outbursts and suicidal tendencies, leading to events like running amok in schools. (This relation is suppressed in the media.) From a holistic healing perspective it appears obvious: There is a good reason for depressions, and it is foolish to believe that this cause can be eliminated by drugs. So what Prozac does is to remove the symptoms that are common for depressions: a state of inactivity, passivity, lack of power and motivation. Now when Prozac manipulates the bodily functions that effect the behavior, removing the option for passive depressive symptoms, the cause needs an alternative outlet, acting out the depression actively in the form of (suicidal) violence.

It is like welding a patch of metal on a leak in an overpressured boiler. Modern medicine sometimes increases the suffering, uses chemical violence against an already suffering patient, wages war inside the body, with a lot of collateral damage. It is really barbaric. A sign that we need more Yin in the world. The warfare-mindset has crept into many sectors of society.

[Aetherous]

In this context it has built up several times and only, I think , this time, has the dynamic shifted, so that the same old script wont be run again. Winpro shifted it.

 

Hmm...we'll see if it lasts. It's not like anyone has actually changed their minds yet.

 

...Looking forward to what Steve says, and more of winpro's posts...

[三江源]

 

Hmm...we'll see if it lasts. It's not like anyone has actually changed their minds yet.

 

...Looking forward to what Steve says, and more of winpro's posts...

 

Shifting isnt the same as stopping.

[Guest winpro07]

I acted from intent not emotion and played a role

 

The roles we play in an unbalanced world if we are to bring balance back sometimes do not 'seem' nice..

 

I 'had to" act because an agenda had been served on this forum for a very long time that had used tactic and deception to win. It caused very much harm...not to my self, but to a community. I have seen many astounding accomplishment from this community and do not want it hindered. People deserve to feel their way through uninfluenced by gossip. The rewards on the other side of this system are very great.

 

"niceness" can come from compassion coupled with a sense of propriety and from insecurity.

 

In both case they are only roles to play. In the later we do not choose..resistances chooses it for us

 

It's like parent-child relationship. Sometime we take the lower hand so that growth can occur. It all comes from instinct that we never really need to pay attention to because the force that drives that instinct is flawless and the whole reason why we are here right now. How we interact or react with that force -our real Mother and Father, whether we take the upper hand or the lower

in all relationship we serve this cause -evolution

 

It's a matter of whether or not we have the ability to choose.

Edited January 11, 2010 by winpro07

[Owledge]

Shifting isnt the same as stopping.

Yeah, everybody learns this in driving school.

 

...Although shifting into R can make you stop pretty quickly.

Edited January 11, 2010 by Hardyg

[joeblast]

what I find funny is that steve states in one thread that he simply ignores "higher beings" that appear to him in meditation (except for of course when he was called by a master or something ) because he simply knows better than to fall for silly thoughtforms - yet, he gets an image in his mind regarding kl and of course that's 100% proven concrete in his world and thus feel empowered to go on a crusade to...what, convince all of TTBs that kl is simply sick energy? what a joke. then after that he feels is quite okay to misrepresent events and discussions, biased in his favor, all in a concerted push to simply defame max and anyone that practices kl. calls me a liar with zip to back it up on top of it after I call him out on his attempted rewriting of history.

 

if that's not breaking the slander rules, I dont know what is.

 

part of his problem is that he keeps saying he has all of this secret information, yet he never gets around to sharing any of it. of course, when he finally does open up and share a bit of it, its swiss cheese full of bs holes and amounts to little more than a person speculating.

 

as far as I'm concerned this should be steve's TTB strike #2. let him back after he serves his suspension and if he resorts to the same garbage again, ban him permanently.

 

fact of the matter is, the discussion was constructive until steve showed up and started spewing garbage until at some point a practitioner from the community has to step up and say something. when he showed up, the conversation ceased being constructive and what a mudslinging festival it became! thread derailed, no longer a discussion that is on topic, it becomes all about the offender's attitude and disrespect.

 

Yoda's representation of things I have no problem with. wasnt slanderous, he asked and he received, and then finally did something to mitigate when he wasnt really a fan of the result he thought he was looking for. he's honest about his experiences and his abandonment of the practice - but he doesnt have a chip on his shoulder and the many of us kl practitioners that still practice remain friends with him.

 

 

as the mods are still basically learning finer aspects of modding and this is the first such situation that has arisen, I think they did a good job and found ways to handle certain aspects of the situation a little more appropriately in the future, but by and large their action was appropriate. I think perhaps in the future any mod edits of text someone has written should still be included, but in strikeout or something - put a line through it to show that what was typed was wholly inappropriate, but deleting the text sorta 'covers' for the offender in a way. let it stay in a reduced form so they can savor their poor choice of words.

[JustARandomPanda]

 

Hi SereneBlue. In situations where an uncomfortable amount of 'grace under pressure' is regularly expected, it is epidemic to find symptoms, where the pressure, inevitably, is internalised and somatised. Eczema, Asthma, High Blood Pressure, Neurosis, the list is endless.

 

This is true. I wasn't trying to excuse things. Just trying explain the mechanism of how this weirdness plays out in practice.