Marblehead Posted January 9, 2010 How's that Marble? Is that a little better?... Hehehe. That was lovely. But you don't need to pay any attention to me. I just say what I feel needs to be said (hoping that I am being somewhat rational) and let it go unless someone calls me on it. But yes, I emphatically agree that the universe, our country, our government, our next door neighbor owe us nothing. If we want something we need to work for it. Doesn't matter if we seek out a teacher or not, really, just as long as if we are to have something of value we need to value getting it and we can place value on it by working for it. We are not all created equal. That saying belongs with the phrase: "In the eyes of the law ..." (But sadly, even that is not true.) If we work toward a goal we will learn what our potential and limits are. Like someone above mentioned above, if we keep hurting ourself in the process of attainment perhaps we should reconsider our goals rather than blaming someone else for 'our' limits. Peace & Love! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sloppy Zhang Posted January 9, 2010 (edited) Hi Sloppy, I can relate to your feelings. I have certainly felt that way myself... Being the old fart that I am, I don't really care about "powers" as much as I used to... There are more important things like loving relationships and having fun... I've seen enough people with powers to know that powers don't bring happiness. Anyway.. I digress... I'm well aware that powers don't bring happiness. Like I said earlier, it's like being able to shoot 3 point shots in basketball. Some people can do it and get paid a lot of money, a lot of doors can be opened (college scholarships, for example), it can really turn your life around.... or you can be stuck with your same old problems. They are what they are. So, I was just inserting the traditional Taoist view about spiritual powers... As I see it, "God helps those who help themselves" is pretty close to what I said... All I said was ( according to traditional Taoist propaganda) that whatever powers you receive is based on your destiny... What's interesting to about that idea is that we react to it based on our internal beliefs about ourselves. (Which may be more important than anything else...) If one believes they are destined to receive powers, they will say, "Yeah, that's right, God has destined me for great things." If someone believes that they are not destined for powers, they will say, "Nonsense! I should be able to get whatever I want"...I should also point out that in many of the stories about immortals, some of them never believed they were worthy of powers but the Universe had other plans for them. So,...anyone is just as eligible as anyone else... So, what I hear in what your saying is that in your mind, you have a fear that the Universe will not give you what you want and I hear you saying inside... "It's not fair!" Well part of it is so that I don't want to jinx it (and I'm sure others don't either) When looking at my life, I can see things have made clear connections, there are certain things in my life that have happened and as a result, certain other things have happened. I am certainly very fortunate, or blessed, or whatever you want to call it, and I am very grateful for that..... but it's not like I want to go around saying, "oh look at me, I'm blessed!" Because, I dunno, what God giveth He can taketh away, I don't want to offend God and screw myself over here (even though, hey, look at what I'm doing!) But by the same token, there are some things that I must initiate. There are certain choices that I had to make, and if it weren't for those decisions other things might not have "fortuitously" happened. Then there's the whole "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" sort of attitude that characterizes a lot of people, including my family and how I was brought up (work hard, help yourself, things of that nature). Let's not even get started on the earful I'd get from my parents if I came home one day and told them ("what I thought was") my destiny So, again, there is a little bit of give and take, I think. Seek and ye shall find, ask and ye shall receive. But first you gotta seek and ask, or, if you are destined to be a Taoist immortal, maybe you don't. Then again, maybe you do. I also want to point out that I disagree with your assumptions that human teachers are miserly holding on to these teachings and keeping them from the rest of us... These teachings are available to anyone who looks for them. We're only taking about natural laws. Right? I wouldn't say miserly, so much as "I sacrificed a lot of this stuff, you sacrifice too". That sounds pretty petty to me. Now that's not to say EVERYONE is like that. I don't want to sound like too much of a suckup, but I've noticed that you've put out some DVD's that have what looks to be pretty good content, and you've talked about some of the effort you put into getting where you are yourself, so I definitely wouldn't put you in the "miserly" category, you'd be in the "generous" category IMO, If you hold on the idea that you are dependent on humans to teach you, you will be disappointed. However, IME, if you simply begin looking and practicing and experimenting, you may discover something more profound than any living teacher can give... It all starts with our mindset. Maybe starting with the belief that you ARE destined for powers, that may help you find the teachings wherever they may be.... Just a thought... Very nice Edited January 9, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ya Mu Posted January 9, 2010 Power & Destiny Destiny, as I understand it and define it, is what YOU chose to learn and do BEFORE you incarnated here on Earth. So this concept of Destiny does NOT go against the concept of free will. Power does depend on your Destiny. For instance, if a person did choose to be a Healer here on the Earth they would bring more energy with them here. So cultivation of Power is simply awakening to who you really are, clearing out all the illusions stuck in the energy body from all the things we have been "taught" since day 1, and raising the vibrational rate of the energy body. Of course there are levels. Power should never be sought without the balance of Knowledge and Wisdom. Knowledge is relatively easy - Wisdom is a lifetime effort of sincere seeking, Listening, trial and error testing of "Knowledge", and alignment with the Divine. From A Light Warrior's Guide to High Level Energy Healing: Medical Qigong & A Shaman's Healing Vision, a Light Warrior's Prayer, when there is need: ... May The Will of the Light Be Done May We Be Instrumental in Manifesting the Will of the Light We ask for Wisdom, Knowledge, and Power, of and For the Light May the Power Be Tempered by Knowledge And May the Knowledge Be Tempered by Wisdom May The Will of the Light Be Done ... The level of Power a person achieves in a lifetime depends on who they are (Destiny); what, how, and how much they practice; the sincere practice of Virtue, the amount of Need, the assumption of responsibility; and the gaining/tempering of knowledge into Wisdom. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goldisheavy Posted January 10, 2010 The one important point that is missing in these discussions about power and how to get it is... all of these disciplines stress that a person is only able to obtain powers based on his/her destiny. There is an understanding that the spiritual powers that be (Gods, immortals etc..) give power to you, you can't reach up and take it. And it can be taken away if it is misused. Power is that which cannot be taken away. Power cannot be given or borrowed. Power either sleeps or awakens. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted January 10, 2010 Fine posts people, thanks for sharing. Here is an electrical parallel (so to speak) about how the power of purity takes care of itself... (in electrical terms it's called inductive reactance, btw I happen to work at a powerplant) Om Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted January 10, 2010 The following quote is not in exactly in context with this string but I feel its shows a radical attitude of giving thanks for difficult tests that "power" will unfailingly supply and which must be met sooner or later, in some form or another as part of the process. "Meditation in Affliction - Gyalwa Longchenpa - Assailed by afflictions, we discover Dharma And find the way to liberation. Thank you, evil forces! When sorrows invade the mind, we discover Dharma And find lasting happiness. Thank you, sorrows! Through harm caused by spirits we discover Dharma And find fearlessness. Thank you, ghosts and demons! Through people's hate we discover Dharma And find benefits and happiness. Thank you, those who hate us! Through cruel adversity, we discover Dharma And find the unchanging way. Thank you, adversity! Through being impelled to by others, we discover Dharma And find the essential meaning. Thank you, all who drive us on! We dedicate our merit to you all, to repay your kindness". Om Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Martial Development Posted January 10, 2010 I would rather cast pearls before swine in the hopes that one day a beggar walks by and finds them, than to hold on to them and pretend like I can discern who's worthy and who is not..... but what do I know? Well, let's see what you know... Have you given your house, or your car, or your job, or your wife to beggars? No? But you are offering to sacrifice all that for the secrets of inner power? No again? OK, but you can criticize those who have made those sacrifices--because they are, in your view, too greedy? Sure! And that's what you know! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ShaktiMama Posted January 10, 2010 I would rather cast pearls before swine in the hopes that one day a beggar walks by and finds them, than to hold on to them and pretend like I can discern who's worthy and who is not..... but what do I know? I find this comment interesting as well, especially with so many "masters" who come up with any number of excuses reasons for why they can't don't demonstrate to the public..... "pearls before swine" is why we don't see telekinesis on roulette tables or fa jing in MMA. i know how to discern who is worthy and who is not.... you haven't yet learned how to be a good judge of character? you are going to get screwed in life if you don't. I can tell who is going to waste my time pretty quick and I would rather not have that person as a student. Let someone else take that compassion project on. I am here to train people not to spend my time teaching people how to be decent and courteous. Let mommy and daddy do that. I bet you have no money or don't undertand the value of money...throwing pearls out on the road hoping that some day a beggar will pick them up? who are you kidding? so many people dodge the 'so what's your experience to back up your mouth?' on this board...and I am still suspicious of many who say they can. Those who can back it up...the energy is apparent in the way they write...experience recognizes experience. i dont take disrespectful bricks for students who possess a sense of entitlement unless they want to pay tribute to be abused by me....its the old school way of training and why should I offer anything different? subtle energy works better on craps or card games... and the good ones are not going to advertise that this is what they do by letting you observe them or score big pots....that's what amateurs do because it indulges the ego and they don't know how to cloak themselves. fa jin in MMA????? no way.... too much of an esoteric practice Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tao99 Posted January 10, 2010 I wouldn't count mma/bjj out as top of mountain just yet. What do you make of this? a Kiai Master offers a 5000 dollar challenge that he can beat any MMA fighter. Too bad for him because his techniques doesn't affect this MMA fighter. <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value=" name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src=" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Iyoiyo Posted January 10, 2010 You offer us the example of the physicist training to earn more money, but I think it's a bad example. A physicist should study out of interest in physics. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted January 10, 2010 (edited) Pearls are one thing... and bread is another. There is that saying of, "Cast thy bread upon the waters: for thou shalt find it after many days". additional consideration on the subject: T.T.C. 13. "Welcome disgrace as a pleasant surprise. Prize calamities as your own body." Why should we "welcome disgrace as a pleasant surprise"? Because a lowly state is a boon: Getting it is a pleasant surprise, And so is losing it! That is why we should "welcome disgrace as a pleasant surprise." Why should we "prize calamities as our own body"? Because our body is the very source of our calamities. If we have no body, what calamities can we have? Hence, only he who is willing to give his body for the sake of the world is fit to be entrusted with the world. Only he who can do it with love is worthy of being the steward of the world. Edited January 10, 2010 by 3bob Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chitoryu Posted January 10, 2010 I do not pursue competency but it comes to me. It is fruitless to deny I become more so with practice and study but I do not bother to acknowledge it. It is natural. It is part of the way. The result of my work is unmistakable but I do not recognize it. My life is filled with many ships, with countless sailors. I work to make them see that the ship is their ship, in total spirit and being. When they believe that, and act on it, my work is finished and it is time to move on. It is truly done well when they do not know that I helped. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ShaktiMama Posted January 10, 2010 (edited) I wouldn't count mma/bjj out as top of mountain just yet. What do you make of this? a Kiai Master offers a 5000 dollar challenge that he can beat any MMA fighter. Too bad for him because his techniques doesn't affect this MMA fighter. Disclaimer: not a martial artist... nothing like getting beat up with a reality stick back to square one.... doesn't mean that what he claims doesn't exist...its just he not good at it how often have you heard someone claiming they are an expert at something and then get their butt handed back to them after they were kicked off the mat? this is no different as far as his students' reactions...it is subtle energy and if you are attuned to your master...it has an effect like this. i can do this with my students...not a big deal when you are working with people who respect you...the real power is shown when you have to work with the haters and predators....you have to know other ways rather than just throwing out your wei chi field... You offer us the example of the physicist training to earn more money, but I think it's a bad example. A physicist should study out of interest in physics. what we think people should do and what they do are way different. i love being a nurse and I am always training in different things to make more money and get promoted... Edited January 10, 2010 by ShaktiMama Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Iyoiyo Posted January 10, 2010 Yes, I didn't want to write "should" because I knew it was wrong (and wasn't what I meant), but at the time I couldn't think of another construction. I think "Ideally" is more appropriate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zhoupeng Posted January 11, 2010 Disclaimer: not a martial artist... nothing like getting beat up with a reality stick back to square one.... doesn't mean that what he claims doesn't exist...its just he not good at it how often have you heard someone claiming they are an expert at something and then get their butt handed back to them after they were kicked off the mat? this is no different as far as his students' reactions...it is subtle energy and if you are attuned to your master...it has an effect like this. i can do this with my students...not a big deal when you are working with people who respect you...the real power is shown when you have to work with the haters and predators....you have to know other ways rather than just throwing out your wei chi field... what we think people should do and what they do are way different. i love being a nurse and I am always training in different things to make more money and get promoted... I have always thought that clip was highly amusing. Every time I think of it I would wonder what on earth would give the man such confidence in his 'esoteric' ability as to go and put up a challenge to an mma fighter. Having been involved in martial arts myself I am no stranger to people who are deluded about their own abilities, but this was the first time I had seen one for whom these abilities were not of the physical kind. That said, thanks for pointing out that the reason for his failure was because he practiced only with students who had purposely attuned themselves to his energy and are not resisting when he demonstrates on them. I pondered that issue for some time and for a while I just thought the students were falling down on purpose as an act to fool the ignorant. I suppose this can be a reminder to us that whatever abilities we choose to develop we should work towards the goal of getting it to level of competency where it will work in ANY situation, including hostile ones. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ShaktiMama Posted January 11, 2010 (edited) I have always thought that clip was highly amusing. Every time I think of it I would wonder what on earth would give the man such confidence in his 'esoteric' ability as to go and put up a challenge to an mma fighter. Having been involved in martial arts myself I am no stranger to people who are deluded about their own abilities, but this was the first time I had seen one for whom these abilities were not of the physical kind. That said, thanks for pointing out that the reason for his failure was because he practiced only with students who had purposely attuned themselves to his energy and are not resisting when he demonstrates on them. I pondered that issue for some time and for a while I just thought the students were falling down on purpose as an act to fool the ignorant. I suppose this can be a reminder to us that whatever abilities we choose to develop we should work towards the goal of getting it to level of competency where it will work in ANY situation, including hostile ones. I have actually seen the real stuff. I also was knocked down by a chi blast and fell hard to my knees and keeled over on my chest, laying prostate on the floor and entered into this blank zone for a few minutes. It left bruises on my knees. The teacher, Grand Master Zhang Jin Fa, did it as a surprise move on me. I was totally unprepared and up to that point a total non believer thinking it was some kind of mass hypnosis performed on gullible students. http://shaolinchankung.tripod.com/shanghaiqigong/id12.html To make it even more spooky...he just turned abruptly and passed me his fanny pack...and zapped me through the pack. Sneaky bastard We were co teaching together to about 40 people at Mount Menla Retreat in upstate NY. (It's a great place owned by Tibet House. http://www.menla.org/Menlahome.html) A big part of me thinks it was a territorial display...someone half his age and a non chinese, non buddhist female at that was sharing equal billing with him at a Buddhist retreat and he was a Buddhist! The majority of the people there were my students. I have stories! Jin used to think my students were very advanced because they went into spontaneous chi gong forms and shaking very quickly with a little chi transmission. He didn't realize they had been softened up with a little kundalini training beforehand. I have seen the soke of Hoshin, Rob Williams, use Ilmu Tenaga Dalam ( a silat skill) which he learned from Santiago on a new Ryu member who had no idea what that stuff was. This guy came running at Rob full force, like a good ninja, who stood there with his arms folded across his chest. Brady went flying across the room to the left before he got within two feet of Rob. No one was more surprised than Brady. Rob invited Brady to make another pass again with the same result....crash. Brady ran at a top speed like a bull. It was not a thing about being attuned to the teacher. He had just met Rob for the first time that weekend at the Ryu meeting. People who combine inner spiritual power, like Tenaga Dalam, with physical power that comes from cultivation and superb martial arts skills are extremely dangerous to bad people. It's scary stuff. Myself and Santi are teaching in London, UK this weekend. We will be hanging with his Silat posse. I couldn't be any safer anywhere. Good thing...because I have no combat skills. Edited January 11, 2010 by ShaktiMama Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
