The Pursuit of Power

[zhoupeng]

I was just reading the John Chang and Mo Pai threads and it seems that the man has remarkable achievements and he was not shy about them either. It also seems that some people believe that special abilities should not be flaunted or used for one's personal benefit whilst others see no problem with this and make it the goal of their practice.

 

Is there a problem with the Pursuit of Power and Abilities? How is training to be a seer different from learning a new skill like a new language, molecular gastronomy cooking or stock investing? These are also skillsets that are handy in the modern world and help one get ahead in life. Does the fact that the clairvoyance skill is less mainstream than language learning or stock investing make it less legitimate as personal practice?

 

Why is it that when we encounter someone who is doing a degree in engineering in order to get himself a higher paying job we don't feel that there is anything wrong with it but when someone makes a statement like: "I want to be like John Chang and will train to get the same abilities" he will get all sorts of negative reactions from people. These range from:

 

- Abilities is not teh Point.

- The training is dangerous

- Do not be greedy for personal empowerment

- All sorts of personal attacks regarding his wisdom, methodology and even DESTINY!!! (jeez)

 

Should abilities not be treated in the same bracket as standard skillsets? Is there a qualitative difference in the following statements?

 

- I want to be a rich man and own a large corporation

- I want to be confident when talking to members of the opposite sex

- I want to be healthy physically and mentally

- I want to win a noble prize through work in my chosen field

- I want to train to have special abilities that I was not born with.

- I want to work my hardest to make my Destiny what I want it to be.

 

Does the fact that people WANT things mean they have a problem?

Where do we draw the line on what is 'legitimate' human endeavour and what is plain greed?

 

All comments welcome.

[xyz]

Is there a problem with the Pursuit of Power and Abilities? How is training to be a seer different from learning a new skill like a new language, molecular gastronomy cooking or stock investing?

 

Why is it that when we encounter someone who is doing a degree in engineering in order to get himself a higher paying job we don't feel that there is anything wrong with it but when someone makes a statement like: "I want to be like John Chang and will train to get the same abilities" he will get all sorts of negative reactions from people.

- there is a difference between usefull skills and skill that feed the ego

- anyone who is solely after powers have a bad mind set to begin with

- people only want what they cant have or nobody else has (higher dimensional gifts/materials) to show off to other people that dont posess those things which sounds like a problem. once a person has evolved to the point where they can do those things than those things lose their meaning. are the abilities that have no meaning still skills? a child in the playground thinks burping realy loud is a skill but when they get older it loses meaning so is that a skill? most skills get outgrown whith the evolution of man and so will superpowers, only valuable to the the lower people

 

 

Should abilities not be treated in the same bracket as standard skillsets?

there is a difference betwen 3rd dimensional skills and and 6-7th dimensional skills

 

Does the fact that people WANT things mean they have a problem?

Where do we draw the line on what is 'legitimate' human endeavour and what is plain greed?

 

 

there is nothing wrong with want but if want comes from lower dimensions than they will never get. if there is a want with a higher purpose they become on par with the want and will get it but like i said..... it will soon lose meaning

[C T]

There is magic all around you.

 

If you cannot see it now, no matter what skills you acquire, you still wont see it.

 

Look deeply into your own being. Cant you see the miracle at work ceaselessly?

It does not require any special skills to recognize this. Just by looking deeply,

and to stay with this inquiry is enough. But its not that easy is it? People get

easily distracted. So the first thing is to learn how not to be distracted. When

you can attain this basic skill, then you will see that all life is a miraculous

play, unfolding every single moment. Only then will the other skills have

meaning, and will be appreciated. There has to be mindfulness first and

foremost. Without this mindfulness, this sharp appreciation for the

little magical displays happening daily, moment to moment, it will

be difficult to handle the bigger magic. This is why there are not

many who possess the bigger magic. They cannot even begin

to see the small magic yet. This is called the nature of magic

sustaining itself. If you look deeply, the same principles

apply to everything in life. First we need to learn to

handle the small magic, to respect it, and not

overlook it, or take it for granted. Then the

passion can grow. When it does, we will

naturally see the bigger miracles,

the power comes slowly, when

you begin to adapt to the

responsibilities of it.

Its like any other

form of training,

be it learning

to cook, to

weight-lift

etc. The

principle

is all the

same.

Find

the

[zhoupeng]

Hi,

 

Thanks for posting on this topic; I was hoping to get someone with a standpoint like yours to participate in this debate.

 

- there is a difference between usefull skills and skill that feed the ego

- anyone who is solely after powers have a bad mind set to begin with

- people only want what they cant have or nobody else has (higher dimensional gifts/materials) to show off to other people that dont posess those things which sounds like a problem.

 

Mundane skills can feed the ego too. Many people get massive ego trips by thinking they are richer, stronger, have more success with women, are better at basketball, are better at computers etc. than others. While I feel that indulging the ego is bad in all shapes and forms, I don't hear anyone saying people shouldn't attempt to get rich or train hard in playing basketball.

 

Just as there are people such as Warren Buffett who pursue money and do not have the same ego as most wall street fat cats, can there not be people who train for special abilities who do not have such an ego?

 

Why is the intent to develop abilities immediately "bad"?

 

once a person has evolved to the point where they can do those things than those things lose their meaning. are the abilities that have no meaning still skills? a child in the playground thinks burping realy loud is a skill but when they get older it loses meaning so is that a skill? most skills get outgrown whith the evolution of man and so will superpowers, only valuable to the the lower people

 

I see what you mean here, but what is the problem when right now humans still live at this 'level' and the abilities are still very much relevent? Many years ago people used floppy disks and film cameras; nowadays hardly anyone uses them anymore as we have memory sticks and digital cameras. But in their day they were most definitely relevent and the companies who sold them made a lot of money.When an better alternative energy source is found for oil then oil will lose its meaning, but for now OPEC makes a killing exporting oil. If everyone in the world is born with the ability of telekinesis I agree that it would be irrelevent to go seeking it, but we haven't got to that stage yet so why shouldn't someone put in the effort to train it?

 

Regarding your example of the child burping loudly, would it matter to the child if some 'adults' thought what he was doing is irrelevent or valuable to only "lower people"? In the child's world, his subjective reality, being able to burp loudly probably makes him cool. He has his friends in the playground may hold contests over who can burp the loudest. Because he wants to win, he will train to burp loudly. Winning in such a contest means nothing to adults, and is in fact rather silly, but it might mean a lot for the child.

 

Furthermore, who is going to go and tell the child not to train to burp loudly? Maybe his parents will do so because it is annoying and is rude in public, but who is going to tell the child that burping loudly is for "lower people" and that he shouldn't feed his ego by trying to win burping competitions with his friends in the playground? Would the child listen or understand?

 

Now let's substitute the words "child", "burping loudly" and "adult" in the above two paragraphs with "entrepreneurs", "making money", and "higher level beings without physical form" respectively.

 

If you are the child, or the entrepreneur, why wouldn't you want to burp loudly or make money? It is the most relevent thing for your current state of existence.

 

If we are all "higher level beings without physical form" then pursuit of special abilities will be irrelevent, but alas, we as a species, are not.

 

here is a difference betwen 3rd dimensional skills and and 6-7th dimensional skills

 

Can you please explain what these differences consist of? (Other than being in a different dimension)

 

there is nothing wrong with want but if want comes from lower dimensions than they will never get. if there is a want with a higher purpose they become on par with the want and will get it but like i said..... it will soon lose meaning

 

What do you mean by higher and lower dimensions? Can you please explain? How does one get to a higher dimension?

Edited January 9, 2010 by zhoupeng

[Marblehead]

Mundane skills can feed the ego too.

 

I agree. This is the only (IMO) drawback regarding our developing our capacities and capabilities. Other than that I think we should develop what creation has afforded us. The better we become the better we can help ourself and others ("others" being an important consideration).

 

Peace & Love!

[Sloppy Zhang]

It depends on your goal. If your goal is enlightenment, liberation, whatever, then any abilities gained in that pursuit would be just as limiting as being attached to money, women, material possessions, and things like that.

 

For many people here, they have made peace with their place in this material world, maybe they have a job or a family, and their goal is that inner stillness and peace, maybe even liberation or enlightenment. Anyway, that's why many people say things like, "well that's not the point" or "it'll only distract you" when the topic of abilities comes up.

 

But if your GOAL is to get those abilities, well then that's your goal, and saying "that's not the point" or "it'll only distract you" doesn't make sense because that's what you're going for

 

But you have to be honest with yourself. Those abilities are just those abilities, nothing less, but certainly nothing more. It won't (necessarily) solve problems like self esteem, personal image, how well you get along with people.

 

It's like being able to shoot a 3 pointer in basketball. You can spend hundreds of hours learning to do it. Is it going to make you a better person? Is it going to resolve the problems in your life? Some people get paid thousands of dollars for being able to make hard shots in a basketball game, you can become a pro and make lots of money, which can solve (or at least change) a lot of problems. But you have to realize it for what it is. It's putting a ball in a goal, nothing more, nothing less.

 

Abilities are what they are. They may or may not help you see through whatever you think there is to see through on your way to liberation (if that's your goal). They may ensnare you just like money or attention from others.

 

So be honest with yourself, all I can say.

 

The funny thing is that there are conflicting stories about these abilities. Some say that you can only get them by being virtuous and following a spiritual path, and that they will arise as a result of you seeing through the illusion, or else arise as a means of tempting you into staying attached to this material world. So the only way to get them is to not want them.

 

Other people say that abilities exist regardless of your moral or spiritual growth, and there are lots of stories of yogis or other masters that "go rogue" by abusing their acquired abilities for personal gain, which seems to suggest that you wanting or not wanting them has little to no effect.

 

The trick is to finding ways to gain these abilities in the first place. A lot of people say, "doing such and such exercise may lead to such abilities as...." keyword being "may", and they are never really explicit on what to do. But I mean, if they were, then everyone would be going after those powers. If Mo Pai or something put out "10 steps to lighting newspapers on fire" then we'd be in trouble, right? Maybe, maybe not. It takes a lot of work to develop these things (from what I understand, unless it's just seeing through the illusion, in which case, there's only one thing you gotta do, see through the illusion, but that's the trick right there), so even if the secret IS out there (hence, not really a secret to begin with), people aren't taking it up.

 

So yeah, kinda long post, but that's pretty much all I have to say. If you really want to gain abilities, you won't find too much help here. We're a lofty bunch (or at least, we like to think of ourselves as a lofty bunch........)

[Thunder_Gooch]

Wanting power for it's own sake is juvenile and pointless, if you want power go buy a gun or run for public office. I doesn't make sense to spend 30 years of your life 10 hours each day in training to accomplish a few parlor tricks.

 

For me at least my obsession with men who go beyond the norm is my desire to reach a higher level of consciousness, to become something more than what I am. Einstein, Tesla, John Chang, Wim Hof, Wang Liping, among others. I believe these men really tapped into more of their potential than most could ever hope to.

 

Powers aren't the end goal, they are merely results of correct training, mile markers along the path. People who think they reached another level, yet have no abilities are purely insane. The market is flooded with frauds and lunatics all waiting to teach you the secrets of the universe for only $29.99 plus shipping and handling. Masters like Chang who do not charge anything for teaching or healing, don't want fame or recognition and are willing to put themselves under the microscope are rare indeed.

 

For me its more about a total dissatisfaction with my current situation, I am a walking talking sack of hamburger, rotting more by the day. Pretty soon my short life will be over and I will be dead as will we all be one day. If the theists are right then an afterlife awaits, if the atheists are right then game over, either of those scenario's I am totally fine with. It's the whole reincarnation bit I have an issue with, I do not want my memories and consciousness erased only to start over as something or someone else.

 

That's why I am interested in real masters like Chang, supposedly they reach escape velocity at some point from the death/rebirth cycle.

 

 

"How long has your guru been teaching?"

 

"Well, uh, over thirty years."

 

"And how many of his students have achieved enlightenment?"

 

"Well, uh..."

 

"That you know of personally?"

 

"Well, uh, I never..."

 

"That you've heard of?"

 

"It's not"

 

"That there were rumors of?"

 

"I don't think..."

 

"What is it they're doing, Martin? The recipe for enlightenment they're promoting - what is it?"

 

"Uh, well, meditation and knowledge, basically."

 

"And in thirty years they've never held someone up and said, 'Look at this guy! He's enlightened and we got him there!' In thirty years, they don't have one? Don't you think they should have, like, an entire army of enlightened guys to show off by now?"

 

"Well, it's not..."

 

"After thirty years they should have a few dozen generations of enlightened people. Even with only a quarter of them becoming teachers, they should have flooded the world by now, mathematically speaking, don't you think? I'm not asking all this as a teacher myself, mind you. I'm just asking as a consumer, or a consumer's advocate. Don't you think it's reasonable to ask to know a teacher's success rate? The proof is in the pudding, right? Didn't you ask them about the fruit of their teachings when you started with them?"

 

"Well, that's not..."

 

"Don't you think it's reasonable to ask? They're in the enlightenment business, aren't they? Or did I misunderstand you? Do they have something else going?"

 

"Nooo, but they..."

 

"If Consumer Reports magazine did a report on which spiritual organizations delivered as promised, don't you suppose that the first statistic listed under each organization would be success rating? Like, here are a hundred randomly selected people who started with the organization five years ago and here's where they are today. For instance, thirty-one have moved up in the organization, twenty-seven have moved on, thirty-nine are still with it but not deeply committed and three have entered abiding non-dual awareness. Okay, three percent - that's a number you can compare. But this organization of yours would have big fat goose egg, wouldn't they? And not just out of a hundred, but out of hundreds of thousands - millions, probably. Am I wrong?

 

- Jed McKenna - 'Spiritual Enlightenment:The Damnedest Thing'

[ShaktiMama]

I was just reading the John Chang and Mo Pai threads and it seems that the man has remarkable achievements and he was not shy about them either. It also seems that some people believe that special abilities should not be flaunted or used for one's personal benefit whilst others see no problem with this and make it the goal of their practice.

 

Is there a problem with the Pursuit of Power and Abilities? How is training to be a seer different from learning a new skill like a new language, molecular gastronomy cooking or stock investing? These are also skillsets that are handy in the modern world and help one get ahead in life. Does the fact that the clairvoyance skill is less mainstream than language learning or stock investing make it less legitimate as personal practice?

 

Why is it that when we encounter someone who is doing a degree in engineering in order to get himself a higher paying job we don't feel that there is anything wrong with it but when someone makes a statement like: "I want to be like John Chang and will train to get the same abilities" he will get all sorts of negative reactions from people. These range from:

 

- Abilities is not teh Point.

- The training is dangerous

- Do not be greedy for personal empowerment

- All sorts of personal attacks regarding his wisdom, methodology and even DESTINY!!! (jeez)

 

Should abilities not be treated in the same bracket as standard skillsets? Is there a qualitative difference in the following statements?

 

- I want to be a rich man and own a large corporation

- I want to be confident when talking to members of the opposite sex

- I want to be healthy physically and mentally

- I want to win a noble prize through work in my chosen field

- I want to train to have special abilities that I was not born with.

- I want to work my hardest to make my Destiny what I want it to be.

 

Does the fact that people WANT things mean they have a problem?

Where do we draw the line on what is 'legitimate' human endeavour and what is plain greed?

 

All comments welcome.

 

 

A couple of comments from my experience as based on having some of these powers or knowing those who do.

 

The problem is equating these powers with advanced spiritual development. They are not. You can be a first class evil jerk and develop those abilities. The sith lord archetype is real. Best to spend time on developing virtues/ethics first. This is why there is emphasis in traditions of developing these traits before training in power energy skills are revealed so that one uses these skills wisely.

 

Take for example the Buddhist Noble Eightfold Path. Learn that first then you will be introduced and trained as a Jedi.

 

They are called subtle energies for a reason. A glock is much more useful in those situations. A subtle energy manuever has the element of surprise. You may only get to use subtle energy once. Then pull out your glock. Remember the scene in Indiana Jones and the sword fight vs the gun?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qXlFNYoyQg

 

All energy skills have combat applications as well as healing apps. Those who don't know that are confused or uninformed. So of course one would want to develop their abilities as well as they can. The problem is people just see the showman side of it and so discount or disparage all development of such skills.

 

All these abilities are natural for the human being if they are trained well. They are not special. They seem special because people don't like to share info about the training. These are all natural attributes of a human being we have from birth but we are trained out of them by socialization and cultural pressure.

 

Take for example clairvoyance. Don't people want to use all the abilities their bodies were designed to do? Your body is a marvelous instrument. Why not use it at it's full capacity.

 

just speaking from my own personal experiences

[Sloppy Zhang]

Wanting power for it's own sake is juvenile and pointless, if you want power go buy a gun or run for public office. I doesn't make sense to spend 30 years of your life 10 hours each day in training to accomplish a few parlor tricks.

 

They are called subtle energies for a reason. A glock is much more useful in those situations. A subtle energy manuever has the element of surprise. You may only get to use subtle energy once. Then pull out your glock. Remember the scene in Indiana Jones and the sword fight vs the gun?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qXlFNYoyQg

 

All energy skills have combat applications as well as healing apps. Those who don't know that are confused or uninformed. So of course one would want to develop their abilities as well as they can. The problem is people just see the showman side of it and so discount or disparage all development of such skills.

 

Yeah, that's the other side of it. If you are just hoping to get abilities to solve your problems, chances are you are going about it the long way. There is no "short and easy" about it.

 

 

A couple of comments from my experience as based on having some of these powers or knowing those who do.

 

The problem is equating these powers with advanced spiritual development. They are not. You can be a first class evil jerk and develop those abilities. The sith lord archetype is real. Best to spend time on developing virtues/ethics first. This is why there is emphasis in traditions of developing these traits before training in power energy skills are revealed so that one uses these skills wisely.

 

Take for example the Buddhist Noble Eightfold Path. Learn that first then you will be introduced and trained as a Jedi.

 

All these abilities are natural for the human being if they are trained well. They are not special. They seem special because people don't like to share info about the training. These are all natural attributes of a human being we have from birth but we are trained out of them by socialization and cultural pressure.

 

Take for example clairvoyance. Don't people want to use all the abilities their bodies were designed to do? Your body is a marvelous instrument. Why not use it at it's full capacity.

 

just speaking from my own personal experiences

 

So are you uh.... interested in divulging some of these methods to aspiring sith lords?

[ShaktiMama]

Yeah, that's the other side of it. If you are just hoping to get abilities to solve your problems, chances are you are going about it the long way. There is no "short and easy" about it.

So are you uh.... interested in divulging some of these methods to aspiring sith lords?

 

 

.... that's what I do... I take hatchlings/apprentices and turn them into mature dragons.

 

But ya know...don't want to upset the boat here and be accused of advertising my services...

 

All the info you need to get started is there for the googling. But, the wake up call is you need a guide. It's like going on a treasure hunt and finding all the pieces but how do you put them together on your own with such a vague and garbled map?

 

Do you want to sit around with your buddies and speculate or ride with someone who has been there and back?

 

Tribute is required and in modern times that is money or your first born. It makes the difference between being an amateur monday morning quarterback wanker or a professional.

 

No, it doesn't take 30 years of indentured servitude spending time in a bean sprout cave working for some guru or "master" who may or may not initiate/train you once you are done. (that person may not even be able to do it...just talks a good game.)Don't people realize that the idea of "it takes a long time to develop these powers" is an economic manipulative trick to get more money out of people in the guise of being spiritual? It's called "following the rice bowl". You work for the maha guru or ultimate senior master, give them money and your time, and they will portion out spiritual "gems" over the next 30 years.

 

such bullshit...

[Sloppy Zhang]

.... that's what I do... I take hatchlings/apprentices and turn them into mature dragons.

 

But ya know...don't want to upset the boat here and be accused of advertising my services...

 

All the info you need to get started is there for the googling. But, the wake up call is you need a guide. It's like going on a treasure hunt and finding all the pieces but how do you put them together on your own with such a vague and garbled map?

 

Do you want to sit around with your buddies and speculate or ride with someone who has been there and back?

 

Tribute is required and in modern times that is money or your first born. It makes the difference between being an amateur monday morning quarterback wanker or a professional.

 

So I googled "how to turn a hatchling into a dragon" and uh..... it's not quite what we're talking about here ... maybe you should rock the boat a little bit?

[ShaktiMama]

So I googled "how to turn a hatchling into a dragon" and uh..... it's not quite what we're talking about here ... maybe you should rock the boat a little bit?

 

It's a metaphor that my students and associates in a shamanic group I led created in 2000 to describe what was happening. So you wont find anything by googling that.

 

This thread is about the political correctness of the pursuit of power. Just thought I would add my personal experiences from the field so to take the thread out of the realm of speculation.

 

I am not interested in rocking the boat amongst the herd...too dangerous. Standing out in a crowd and being different from the status quo is a quick way to invite violence.

[Marblehead]

I am not interested in rocking the boat amongst the herd...too dangerous. Standing out in a crowd and being different from the status quo is a quick way to invite violence.

 

Hehehe. Yep. The herd will trample you to death and won't even realize they have done it.

 

Beware the herd!!!

 

Peace & Love!

[fiveelementtao]

The one important point that is missing in these discussions about power and how to get it is... all of these disciplines stress that a person is only able to obtain powers based on his/her destiny. There is an understanding that the spiritual powers that be (Gods, immortals etc..) give power to you, you can't reach up and take it. And it can be taken away if it is misused.

Another important point to know is that if someone is meant to obtain powers, they do not need a teacher or system to receive it. If it is in one's destiny to receive such powers, the Universe will teach them...So, IMO, the most important lesson in gaining spiritual power is to first seek humility. Then seek to live out your highest destiny and be of service to others, IMO, if one does that.. The Universe will bring you to your teachers. Patience is also a very good trait because you may be being taught right now and have no idea what you are learning. IMO, The immortals and guides are with us all the time teaching and preparing us for our highest destinies. Our cooperation to that ideal should only speed up the process... That's what I've heard anyway...

[Sloppy Zhang]

The one important point that is missing in these discussions about power and how to get it is... all of these disciplines stress that a person is only able to obtain powers based on his/her destiny. There is an understanding that the spiritual powers that be (Gods, immortals etc..) give power to you, you can't reach up and take it. And it can be taken away if it is misused.

Another important point to know is that if someone is meant to obtain powers, they do not need a teacher or system to receive it. If it is in one's destiny to receive such powers, the Universe will teach them...So, IMO, the most important lesson in gaining spiritual power is to first seek humility. Then seek to live out your highest destiny and be of service to others, IMO, if one does that.. The Universe will bring you to your teachers. Patience is also a very good trait because you may be being taught right now and have no idea what you are learning. IMO, The immortals and guides are with us all the time teaching and preparing us for our highest destinies. Our cooperation to that ideal should only speed up the process... That's what I've heard anyway...

 

So there's this huge flood in a small town one day, and this guy really believes that God will save him no matter what, and as his neighbors are leaving they say, "we're going to our parents' house that's on high ground, will you come with us?"

 

And the man says, "no, God will save me."

 

The water starts to rise, and the guy goes to the second story of his home. Some people from down the street come by in a boat, and ask him to get in, and the guy says, "no, God will save me."

 

The water rises still, he climbs up onto the roof. A helicopter comes down and says, "climb on, we will rescue you." And he says, "no thanks, God will save me."

 

The water rises and the man drowns. The dude goes up to heaven and asks God, "why didn't you save me?"

 

And God says, "I gave you a nice neighbor, a boat, I even sent down a freakin' helicopter, what more did you want!?"

 

You have to make an effort. As my family likes to say, God helps those who help themselves

 

I do believe that there are gifts and things granted from other beings, but I also believe that humans have certain things they can cultivate on their own. That's not to say that God's blessings hurt

[Martial Development]

So many people come to these forums asking for access to information, and offering nothing meaningful in return. Like spoiled children. When that doesn't work, they cunningly debate "how things ought to be" while hoping for the same result.

 

Others give up, immediately or after a few months of futile practice; and having no discernible abilities themselves, half believe they've officially seen it all, while the other half wants to ensure that nobody rises above them.

 

Through struggle and sacrifice, some get injured. A few get the skills, and only then realize they actually wanted something else!

 

How many of these characters actually know themselves? If they don't know, then why even bother to ask them?

 

Destiny!

[C T]

The one important point that is missing in these discussions about power and how to get it is... all of these disciplines stress that a person is only able to obtain powers based on his/her destiny. There is an understanding that the spiritual powers that be (Gods, immortals etc..) give power to you, you can't reach up and take it. And it can be taken away if it is misused.

Another important point to know is that if someone is meant to obtain powers, they do not need a teacher or system to receive it. If it is in one's destiny to receive such powers, the Universe will teach them...So, IMO, the most important lesson in gaining spiritual power is to first seek humility. Then seek to live out your highest destiny and be of service to others, IMO, if one does that.. The Universe will bring you to your teachers. Patience is also a very good trait because you may be being taught right now and have no idea what you are learning. IMO, The immortals and guides are with us all the time teaching and preparing us for our highest destinies. Our cooperation to that ideal should only speed up the process... That's what I've heard anyway...

Humility and patience - both excellent attributes, and highly crucial in the quest for 'spiritual' power.

Alas such fundamental qualities seem lost in today's world, what with so many out there offering

all kinds of short-cuts to all kinds of 'realms'! No wonder the gods are all confused, and often end

up placing such powers in the wrong type of so-called teachers, who in turn churn out the wrong

kind of students. If there were more respect for time and effort in cultivation, it would certainly

reduce the chance of someone suddenly exposing themselves to 'powers' that they will find some

difficulty in assimilating.

[ShaktiMama]

So many people come to these forums asking for access to information, and offering nothing meaningful in return. Like spoiled children. When that doesn't work, they cunningly debate "how things ought to be" while hoping for the same result.

 

Others give up, immediately or after a few months of futile practice; and having no discernible abilities themselves, half believe they've officially seen it all, while the other half wants to ensure that nobody rises above them.

 

Through struggle and sacrifice, some get injured. A few get the skills, and only then realize they actually wanted something else!

 

How many of these characters actually know themselves? If they don't know, then why even bother to ask them?

 

Destiny!

 

Excellent observation. Spoiled is right or more harshly, why cast pearls before swine?

 

People have to justify/rationalize their excuses at failure. And what safer place to do it than behind a monitor and keyboard?

 

Judge by results. Often harsh but always fair.

 

As if an employer would hire someone based on an internet conversation.

[ShaktiMama]

Humility and patience - both excellent attributes, and highly crucial in the quest for 'spiritual' power.

Alas such fundamental qualities seem lost in today's world, what with so many out there offering

all kinds of short-cuts to all kinds of 'realms'! No wonder the gods are all confused, and often end

up placing such powers in the wrong type of so-called teachers, who in turn churn out the wrong

kind of students. If there were more respect for time and effort in cultivation, it would certainly

reduce the chance of someone suddenly exposing themselves to 'powers' that they will find some

difficulty in assimilating.

 

 

I just want to stress there is "spiritual power" and then there is the internal cultivation necessary to regain our innate abilities as human beings that our bodies were designed for. To some those look like spiritual powers. They are not. It's like training to be a better archer or a cook. That's all that is. Train to be a better human being.

 

The question is do people want to regain these natural abilities that come when one dances with the Wu Li masters?

 

A teacher told me once..."do you know what that line is between the dark and the light on the Yin Yang symbol?" I said no. He responded, "That's where the masters dance."

 

Most do not want that level of power. With great power comes great responsiblity. The KAP path is unforgiving, fast, and harsh in that if you don't follow what the intructors say and surrender to the direction of kundalini shakti...you will be kicked to the curb...not by us...but by your own weakness and brittle ego. I know spiritual power and i know enhanced human abilities that we are designed for. There is a difference.

 

The process is self selecting. Hatsumi Sensei used to say, "bad ninja go away."

 

Maybe a 100 years ago a good teacher was accountable for their students in the way if student went bad, the teacher's responsibility was to handle the problem by killing them. It still happens in some parts of the world.

 

If this was still enforced in modern times...might we see less strutting and power displays on tbums?

[Sloppy Zhang]

So many people come to these forums asking for access to information, and offering nothing meaningful in return. Like spoiled children. When that doesn't work, they cunningly debate "how things ought to be" while hoping for the same result.

 

Others give up, immediately or after a few months of futile practice; and having no discernible abilities themselves, half believe they've officially seen it all, while the other half wants to ensure that nobody rises above them.

 

Through struggle and sacrifice, some get injured. A few get the skills, and only then realize they actually wanted something else!

 

How many of these characters actually know themselves? If they don't know, then why even bother to ask them?

 

Destiny!

 

 

Excellent observation. Spoiled is right or more harshly, why cast pearls before swine?

 

People have to justify/rationalize their excuses at failure. And what safer place to do it than behind a monitor and keyboard?

 

I would rather cast pearls before swine in the hopes that one day a beggar walks by and finds them, than to hold on to them and pretend like I can discern who's worthy and who is not..... but what do I know?

 

Judge by results. Often harsh but always fair.

 

As if an employer would hire someone based on an internet conversation.

 

I find this comment interesting as well, especially with so many "masters" who come up with any number of excuses reasons for why they can't don't demonstrate to the public..... "pearls before swine" is why we don't see telekinesis on roulette tables or fa jing in MMA.

Edited January 9, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[C T]

I just want to stress there is "spiritual power" and then there is the internal cultivation necessary to regain our innate abilities as human beings that our bodies were designed for. To some those look like spiritual powers. They are not. It's like training to be a better archer or a cook. That's all that is. Train to be a better human being.

 

The question is do people want to regain these natural abilities that come when one dances with the Wu Li masters?

 

A teacher told me once..."do you know what that line is between the dark and the light on the Yin Yang symbol?" I said no. He responded, "That's where the masters dance."

 

Most do not want that level of power. With great power comes great responsiblity. The KAP path is unforgiving, fast, and harsh in that if you don't follow what the intructors say and surrender to the direction of kundalini shakti...you will be kicked to the curb...not by us...but by your own weakness and brittle ego. I know spiritual power and i know enhanced human abilities that we are designed for. There is a difference.

 

The process is self selecting. Hatsumi Sensei used to say, "bad ninja go away."

 

Maybe a 100 years ago a good teacher was accountable for their students in the way if student went bad, the teacher's responsibility was to handle the problem by killing them. It still happens in some parts of the world.

 

If this was still enforced in modern times...might we see less strutting and power displays on tbums?

Maybe those that need to be "killed" are the irresponsible charlatans who make all kinds of outlandish claims

that there are quickie routes towards what you term as 'natural abilities'. You yourself have stated over and

over that even after going around the block a few times, you are still learning, which is only right, as far

as attitude is concerned. My point is there are never any short-cuts. All endeavors, be they in any calling,

need patience and the willingness to keep returning to the basics over and over until the footing is perfect.

Its not the weakness of the seekers that is the problem, its the 'buzzards' who hover above and prey on

those sincere enough to want to find an authentic practice that ought to be "kicked to the curb".

[Marblehead]

The one important point that is missing in these discussions about power and how to get it is... all of these disciplines stress that a person is only able to obtain powers based on his/her destiny.

 

Hi Five,

 

I kinda' agree with what you said but kinda' disagree as well. Sloppy Zhang's reply is valid and is a common response to your above post.

 

I, personally, do not hold to the concept of destiny because I hold to the concept of 'free will' and thses two are opposites. I rather prefer to speak about one's potential. We are born onto this planet with given potentials. This is strictly genetics, nothing to do with any gods or goddesses.

 

We can either develop our potentials or not - our choice. And we won't know what our potentials are until we test our limits. Again, our choice.

 

Peace & Love!

[fiveelementtao]

You have to make an effort. As my family likes to say, God helps those who help themselves

 

I do believe that there are gifts and things granted from other beings, but I also believe that humans have certain things they can cultivate on their own. That's not to say that God's blessings hurt

 

Hi Sloppy,

I can relate to your feelings. I have certainly felt that way myself... Being the old fart that I am, I don't really care about "powers" as much as I used to... There are more important things like loving relationships and having fun... I've seen enough people with powers to know that powers don't bring happiness. Anyway.. I digress...

So, I was just inserting the traditional Taoist view about spiritual powers...

As I see it, "God helps those who help themselves" is pretty close to what I said... All I said was ( according to traditional Taoist propaganda) that whatever powers you receive is based on your destiny... What's interesting to about that idea is that we react to it based on our internal beliefs about ourselves. (Which may be more important than anything else...) If one believes they are destined to receive powers, they will say, "Yeah, that's right, God has destined me for great things." If someone believes that they are not destined for powers, they will say, "Nonsense! I should be able to get whatever I want"...I should also point out that in many of the stories about immortals, some of them never believed they were worthy of powers but the Universe had other plans for them. So,...anyone is just as eligible as anyone else... So, what I hear in what your saying is that in your mind, you have a fear that the Universe will not give you what you want and I hear you saying inside... "It's not fair!"

I also want to point out that I disagree with your assumptions that human teachers are miserly holding on to these teachings and keeping them from the rest of us... These teachings are available to anyone who looks for them. We're only taking about natural laws. Right? IMO, If you hold on the idea that you are dependent on humans to teach you, you will be disappointed. However, IME, if you simply begin looking and practicing and experimenting, you may discover something more profound than any living teacher can give... It all starts with our mindset. Maybe starting with the belief that you ARE destined for powers, that may help you find the teachings wherever they may be.... Just a thought...

 

How's that Marble? Is that a little better?...

Edited January 9, 2010 by fiveelementtao

[Marblehead]

How many of these characters actually know themselves? If they don't know, then why even bother to ask them?

 

Destiny!

 

 

Hehehe. But you know - forget your destiny.

 

Peace & Love!

 

 

Maybe those that need to be "killed" are the irresponsible charlatans who make all kinds of outlandish claims

that there are quickie routes towards what you term as 'natural abilities'. You yourself have stated over and

over that even after going around the block a few times, you are still learning, which is only right, as far

as attitude is concerned. My point is there are never any short-cuts. All endeavors, be they in any calling,

need patience and the willingness to keep returning to the basics over and over until the footing is perfect.

Its not the weakness of the seekers that is the problem, its the 'buzzards' who hover above and prey on

those sincere enough to want to find an authentic practice that ought to be "kicked to the curb".

 

Oh My Goodness! My friend CowTao is getting serious with us.

 

(But I agree with what you said.)

 

Peace & Love!

[ShaktiMama]

Maybe those that need to be "killed" are the irresponsible charlatans who make all kinds of outlandish claims

that there are quickie routes towards what you term as 'natural abilities'. You yourself have stated over and

over that even after going around the block a few times, you are still learning, which is only right, as far

as attitude is concerned. My point is there are never any short-cuts. All endeavors, be they in any calling,

need patience and the willingness to keep returning to the basics over and over until the footing is perfect.

Its not the weakness of the seekers that is the problem, its the 'buzzards' who hover above and prey on

those sincere enough to want to find an authentic practice that ought to be "kicked to the curb".

 

 

no...it is about being irresponsible and abuses of power and knowledge...historically dark lord, sorcerer types...Charlatans will learn a few tricks but they only get the gullible for their students. Unfortunately, they usually get the majority of the students. Usually these students are looking for someone to teach them the way to feel powerful in their hopeless lives. People seek power many times just to bolster their own sense of inadequacy and low self esteem. Movies and fiction are made up of these stories. we all get the teachers we deserve.

 

Quickie...no... 30 years...no Some students bloom almost immediately but there is a lifetime of refinement on this path. No weekend class and hey, look, card carrying Master. When a teacher proclaims they have arrived...do run screaming into the night in the opposite direction. They must be dead!

 

No, there are are no shortcuts but there are unnecessarily long detours IMO. I wish I had KAP around when my kundalini was awakening. It would have saved me a lot of pain and false starts. That's why I teach.

 

KAP 1 is basics. I don't know why you would think it is not. I still stand by natural abilities as valid.

 

Weakness or lack of virtue/character will kick people off the path. Strong and good hearts, although inexperienced, are welcome to apply. Those who want to be of greater service to this world please apply. Those who want to put aside their selfish desires for advancement and power and instead wish to bring love, peace, and healing to this world and themselves, PLEASE apply.