Most Underrated Systems, Teachers, Books, etc

[Trunk]

Cool thread.

THE BOOK OF NEI KUNG by C.K. CHU

 

Buy it, do it, and thank me & Blasto later!!!!

Yes, has anyone has practiced the system?

Years ago here in L.A. I took the short course from James Borelli and bought the book. I can't say that I know that book thoroughly but the main that was taught was a nice series of still standing postures. It was worth while.

 

~~~

 

I mention HardLight.org now and then. The specialty of Mark Griffin, the Teacher of that school, is very high end vajra transmission (to put it in Tibetan terminology). Like, all the time, just for showing up.

 

I'd say the weakness of that school is that there is a considerable communication gap. Mark's talks are brilliant and inspiring, and it's clear that he knows what he's talking about, but often parts of the talks and methods have a tendency to be beyond the capacity of students. There's been substantial work to remedy that, but it's still a tendency within that school.

 

I'd risk saying that the basic HL-student-strategy is to do whatever method/s work for you (whether it is what Mark teaches or something else or some mix) and show up and groove the transmissions. Whatever other methods they might do, it's expected that all HL students practice still sitting.

 

I've been buying and listening to some of their more recent CD's, as I've been away for years. The Five Stages of Pratyahara contained easily the clearest deepest description of some of the classic uses of breath that I've ever heard. Some of the methods I could get to easily, some are very accessible but a little tricky, and others I can't find hardly at all... can barely even start to get a handle on, if that. Don't expect to be able to do everything that Mark talks about.

 

There are free digital talks at HardLight.org, CD's etc. Some of that talks a very fascinating, and some portions of even the digital talks carry a lot of "juice". He teaches in the L.A. area, very cheap. They have streaming participation in classes - an entry point to participate in the class in real-time via the internet and advanced states of mind work (and, yeah, I'm not kidding - listen to some of the digital talks and you'll see). I just kind of did my hardcore hardlight time and now a slower pace is good for me, but I still feel connected. Oh, also, it's a small group. It's like you're sitting with a high end vajra master, who is of western background and says things often in common terms - and there's less than 50 people in the room.

 

Oh, a note re: small groups. Over the years I've had several teachers who were exceptional, of my own culture, and generally were only able do draw 50 students at a time - maximum, often less. And it was always eyebrows half way up my forehead and jaw on the ground. There are some real gems out there, very advanced, with few students. It's pretty wild and a real opportunity.

 

- Trunk

[Baguakid]

THE BOOK OF NEI KUNG by C.K. CHU

 

From Amazon, one user wrote:

Nei Kung is cultivation of Internal Power/Energy.

This books shows some good exercise, but has absolutely

nothing to do with Nei Kung per se.

 

Tai Chi or similar things are good exercise to help spread/

circulate chi energy, but itself does not generate it.

It is thru meditation with controlled breathing etc in a

systematic manner the chi energy is generated in body.

 

This book can not even be a book for nei kung.

As soon as I receive this by mail, it went straight to

garbage can.

 

My suggestion is DON'T BUY !

j.park

 

Is this a book of cultivating/building Qi or moving Qi?

 

tks

Edited January 14, 2010 by Baguakid

[Taomeow]

Hey Taomeow,

from one cat to another,do most master's really go on about alien's amongst us ?.

sabretooth.

LOL, no. Most wouldn't want to undermine their good standing with skeptics. But I surely did hear it from a few.

[Pero]

Also, it's cool to see positive things said about Falun Gong. I also had good experiences with this form years ago. But I also eventually shyed away from it when I read some strange things that Li Hongzhi was saying.

 

One thing that I remember why I didn't put any serious time into it is because he mentioned that for it to really work you had to come to a course where "falun's" will be installed in you. Fortunatelly at the time of my interest when I was much younger I couldn't get to such a course, and then I realized that I wouldn't want anything installed in me from a teacher I do not trust.

 

I mention HardLight.org now and then. The specialty of Mark Griffin, the Teacher of that school, is very high end vajra transmission (to put it in Tibetan terminology).

 

I don't see why you'd do that since his main teacher is Hindu.

[Encephalon]

THE BOOK OF NEI KUNG by C.K. CHU

 

From Amazon, one user wrote:

Is this a book of cultivating/building Qi or moving Qi?

 

tks

 

I read the same review. He might as well have said that he doesn't like tapioca pudding; there was no explanatory power behind his review, and, as you will note, the ten other reviews were All five stars, with some sound reflection to back them up.

 

The program begins with the static Embrace Horse posture and is followed by nine dynamic movements which are designed to circulate the chi that you've built up from the first posture. But is NOT about circulating chi with the breath/movement combination; the breathing pattern that is maintained througout the program is long, slow, rythmic, deep and continuous. This is all about using the mind to direct chi, not the breath. It is internal.

 

From the Intro - "While Nei Kung is considered an internal system of physical development, the cultivation ofchi can also be approached externally, as with the "eight Bouqet" exercises of the "Five Animal Games" of the early Taoist physical disciplines. The external approach attempts to "pump" chi into the body, while the internal system stresses the body in a specific manner so as to create a chi "vacuum," as it were, that permits the body to absorb chi more naturally... increasing the body's capacity to soak up the energy automatically... blockages in chi flow are opened up gently without applying force.."

[Trunk]

me:

...very high end vajra transmission (to put it in Tibetan terminology).

I don't see why you'd do that since his main teacher is Hindu.

I have an eclectic background. My point of view is that we are all human beings, so some common mechanics come into play regardless of tradition. I sometimes use whatever terminology suits, sometimes cross-tradition - sometimes my own language.

 

Mark spent some years with Teachers of the Kagyu lineage after Muktananda died. I'd say that there's palpable Kagyu grace flowing through the HardLight school, as well as Siddha. Mark speaks in the terminology of various traditions (though tends towards Indian terminology), and often simply in his own words.

 

I am not saying that he is a formally recognized Tibetan vajra master. I've certainly never heard him say that nor have I heard anyone say that about him.

[Pero]

I have an eclectic background. My point of view is that we are all human beings, so some common mechanics come into play regardless of tradition. I sometimes use whatever terminology suits, sometimes cross-tradition - sometimes my own language.

 

Yeah I can understand that, I just personally prefer to leave everything in its own tradition.

[Trunk]

Yeah I can understand that, I just personally prefer to leave everything in its own tradition.

[Reader]

Thank you for your answers and stories!

 

I learned something new today.

 

Best,

[senseikarma]

Have to second that. A superb routine, and costs nothing to learn and practice. The often-discussed lower back pain, I had it all my adult life till falun gong, and never again. (Knock on wood.) The founder did say some strange things, and way back when, when I was exposed to it, to me the mention of aliens among us was the last straw... but now there's hardly a master out there who doesn't mention them.

 

Nothing wrong with the main message -- truthfulness, forbearance, kindness -- either. The falun itself, too, is as old as the stars, older in fact... and feeling it in your body is quite a trip.

 

The downside being that it's one of those schools that are deemed incompatible with other methods of cultivation. Perhaps because qi pathways it opens are rather unique. I had to cut my hair very short at one point when practicing this because qi started flowing upward along the back and getting entangled in the hair! However, once I did cut it, I knew why and wherefore so many monks and nuns of so many traditions do that.

 

 

Hi there,

 

Finally some first hand info from someone who is not into the Cult!

 

It would be a great help if you can answer some queries for me:

 

1. Does the Falun develop through the practice or it has to be installed or placed by the Grand Master?

2. What is your take on Falun? Same as concentrated Chi? Revolving Chi?

3. Why is this practice not compatible with others?

4. Is there anything that is compatible with Falun? Kundalini, Zazen, Abdominal Breathing? Or its complete alchemy in itself.

 

I am trying to assess Falun Gong but most resources talk of it's founder and not the alchemy.

[Taomeow]

Hi there,

 

Finally some first hand info from someone who is not into the Cult!

 

It would be a great help if you can answer some queries for me:

 

1. Does the Falun develop through the practice or it has to be installed or placed by the Grand Master?

2. What is your take on Falun? Same as concentrated Chi? Revolving Chi?

3. Why is this practice not compatible with others?

4. Is there anything that is compatible with Falun? Kundalini, Zazen, Abdominal Breathing? Or its complete alchemy in itself.

 

I am trying to assess Falun Gong but most resources talk of it's founder and not the alchemy.

I'll try to help but I have to rely on memory, it's been quite a while...

 

1. Does the Falun develop through the practice or it has to be installed or placed by the Grand Master?

 

Sort of both -- the story is, the master has embedded it in the practice, once you start practicing, you install it automatically. Of course it's not an "installation" in any mechanical or even spirit sense. It's a reconfiguration of some functions. Much like learning to read -- you reconfigure some neural pathways for that. The reading "program" gets gradually installed -- then perfected -- but nothing mechanical has changed in your brain and no "spirit of reading" has been planted in your head, what happened is a new network of connections has been developed by the practice of reading. (If any of the refugees of the kunlun discussion are reading this, I believe K "transmission" is similar in its nature, i.e. it's a reconfiguration of what you've got, an expansion of function rather than something new or extraneous.)

 

2.What is your take on Falun? Same as concentrated Chi? Revolving Chi?

 

I don't remember what the explanations were, I can only share my memories of my own experience at that point. I perceived it as the revolving miao tao, the "mysterious border" between yin and yang in taiji, the S-shaped line separating them, which is where manifestations sink back into the unmanifest and, vice versa, the unmanifest becomes manifest. To me it was beautiful and meaningful, I started seeing this shape and feeling this energy (whether in rotation, forming a falun, or by itself) everywhere in nature, in the arts, in Oriental architecture -- and more... But that's my own take, like I said, I've no memory of the official explanation by now.

 

3. Why is this practice not compatible with others?

 

And here we have an opposite situation -- personally I don't know, but I do remember the master's explanation. "You can't travel the river in two boats by placing one foot in each." In and of itself, this incompatibility of a particular practice with others doesn't mean it's good or bad. In the Ayurvedic tradition, you don't eat melons with anything else, only by themselves ("eat them alone or leave them alone.") Melons are considered very beneficial, but it's just something you don't want to mix with anything else. Likewise, Jewish dietary laws prohibit mixing meat and dairy products in the same meal, but separately both are considered fine. From warnings on labels we also know there's incompatibilities of drugs, some of them very dangerous and others very obvious (e.g., it's not a good idea to take a sleeping aid and a laxative together, methinks ) Similar rules apply to some practices.

 

4. Is there anything that is compatible with Falun? Kundalini, Zazen, Abdominal Breathing? Or its complete alchemy in itself.

 

It's supposed to be complete, but I don't know since I only practiced for a few months. I'm pretty sure it's compatible with taiji. Zazen -- no need, there's a meditation part that's similar, only a bit more challenging since you have to keep your arms in a certain position (which you change a few times, flowing them into the next one before finally setting them in a mudra at the lower dantien level.) Kundalini -- god forbid! I can't begin to imagine what it will do if the falun picks it up for a ride and who will shred whom. Abdominal Breathing -- no need, it kicks in on autopilot after a while. Zhang Zhuang -- no need, there's a version of that included (a difficult one). Internally, all you do is nothing -- it is practiced in wuwei state.

 

What else. You are instructed to do the meditation in full lotus, if you can't, you keep working on it.

 

Hope it helps.

Edited January 15, 2010 by Taomeow

[freeform]

In the UK - Burgs

[Guest sykkelpump]

..

Edited January 16, 2010 by sykkelpump

[lifeforce]

I'm surprised that nobody's mentioned this yet Yin Yoga

 

I've been incorporating this and the 5 Tibetans into my daily movement routine.

My main movement practice being Xing Yi Nei Gong.

These three seem to compliment each other very nicely.

[Andrei]

These are the underrated books of Mantak Chia imo:

 

http://www.scribd.com/doc/13041595/Mantakc...rganschiMassage

 

http://www.scribd.com/doc/2680255/Mantak-C...g-Female-Sexual

 

http://www.scribd.com/doc/2672134/DLB08-Ir...Marrow-Nei-Kung

 

http://www.scribd.com/doc/2678012/Mantak-C...osmic-Healing-I

 

http://www.scribd.com/doc/2678198/Mantak-C...smic-Healing-II

[Hagbard]

1. Wuji Standing qigong (ala Cai Songfang - described in Warriors of Stillness I and Wujishi Breathing Exercise)

2. Brain Scrub as described in Pathnotes of an American Ninja Master and Secrets of Chinese Meditation

3. Inner Smile and Secret Smile - Chia and Morris

4. Silva Method of meditation

 

The trick is in practicing every day. Besides that...

[Eric23]

I'm surprised that nobody's mentioned this yet Yin Yoga

 

 

Very cool yoga system. It works the meridians and facia. Been doing it for a couple of years now; very satisfying. I'm fortunate that there are several yoga studios in my town that have Yin Yoga classes and teachers.

[senseikarma]

Taomeow, that was an AMAZING response. Can't thank you enough

 

If you don't mind, can you share why you didn't continue with the practice? You found this to be lacking in some aspect that made you pick something else?

 

I read accounts and spoke to many but can't find one guy who practiced Falun gong long term and as the main practice like Taiji. Everyone seems to like it but still moves over to something else

 

I have been running MCO for the last couple months but after getting into Falun for the last 3 weeks, the MCO won't run no more. Or its possible its running differently. But my energy levels are pretty high and most people around can feel it.

 

Searched old posts and found some stuff

 

The "Falun" is an entity: Malevolent. In the long term will cause problems. Practicing can be ok, but inviting this entity to dwell within you is posession. I am not saying that all practitioners are bad people. There are many Falun nut-jobs, and many good people seeking truth. The Falun is a collective thought cluster that has become a spiritual entity. I have heard of people doing the "exercises" and benefiting. I have had to help some that invited this Entity to transmute it. Do what you will, but beware.

 

 

Magitek May I PM you? Vizualization can transmute it, and it can then be absorbed. I was too curious when the movement was brand new and had to remove it from myself. You can use standard techniques to remove it from others. If they are adept you could teach them the transmutation. I can explain the nature of the entity in more detail privately. For now I will say that it is collective, and has probably gained strength over the years. I doubt very much that Li Hongzi created it, but it is possible. He was investigated in depth, and there was no evidence of any formal training. In fact, it was stated that he was slow and unremarkable in youth as well... kind of like Hitler.

Edited January 16, 2010 by senseikarma

[Guest sykkelpump]

Taomeow, that was an AMAZING response. Can't thank you enough

 

If you don't mind, can you share why you didn't continue with the practice? You found this to be lacking in some aspect that made you pick something else?

 

I read accounts and spoke to many but can't find one guy who practiced Falun gong long term and as the main practice like Taiji. Everyone seems to like it but still moves over to something else

 

I have been running MCO for the last couple months but after getting into Falun for the last 3 weeks, the MCO won't run no more. Or its possible its running differently. But my energy levels are pretty high and most people around can feel it.

 

Searched old posts and found some stuff

 

On me falun gong have a very good effect on the mco

[Biff]

On me falun gong have a very good effect on the mco

 

How long have you been doing Falun Gong? the one thing I have always wondered about it is people mixing it with other systems. When you do it you receive a Falun or entity that resides over your lower DT. Master Li said that if you train in another cultivation method while doing Falun Gong then it will deform the Falun. But people still seem to mix with ok results. Are you doing just Falun Gong on it's own?

 

I'll try to help but I have to rely on memory, it's been quite a while...

 

1. Does the Falun develop through the practice or it has to be installed or placed by the Grand Master?

 

Sort of both -- the story is, the master has embedded it in the practice, once you start practicing, you install it automatically. Of course it's not an "installation" in any mechanical or even spirit sense. It's a reconfiguration of some functions. Much like learning to read -- you reconfigure some neural pathways for that. The reading "program" gets gradually installed -- then perfected -- but nothing mechanical has changed in your brain and no "spirit of reading" has been planted in your head, what happened is a new network of connections has been developed by the practice of reading. (If any of the refugees of the kunlun discussion are reading this, I believe K "transmission" is similar in its nature, i.e. it's a reconfiguration of what you've got, an expansion of function rather than something new or extraneous.)

 

I just read this and completely disagree. The Falun is an entity plain and simple. There are lots of 'entities' in this practice and Master Li even advises not to be scared if you see demons as he has created an army of his own that will protect you.

[Guest sykkelpump]

How long have you been doing Falun Gong? the one thing I have always wondered about it is people mixing it with other systems. When you do it you receive a Falun or entity that resides over your lower DT. Master Li said that if you train in another cultivation method while doing Falun Gong then it will deform the Falun. But people still seem to mix with ok results. Are you doing just Falun Gong on it's own?

I just read this and completely disagree. The Falun is an entity plain and simple. There are lots of 'entities' in this practice and Master Li even advises not to be scared if you see demons as he has created an army of his own that will protect you.

I have been doing it for almost a year,I mix it with meditation which is my main practice.I think it is best to not mix it with other qi gong systems.and there is no reason to do so imo since falun gong includes movement,zhan zhuang and sitting postures

[Pero]

I'll try to help but I have to rely on memory, it's been quite a while...

 

1. Does the Falun develop through the practice or it has to be installed or placed by the Grand Master?

 

Sort of both -- the story is, the master has embedded it in the practice, once you start practicing, you install it automatically.

 

From my memory you have to at least attend a course with instructors who already have it, and so Li Hong Zi's "helpers" are with them and then they install it in you... But if it's true that through practice it comes automatically then I'm glad I didn't invest any serious time into it.

[Taomeow]

Taomeow, that was an AMAZING response. Can't thank you enough

 

If you don't mind, can you share why you didn't continue with the practice? You found this to be lacking in some aspect that made you pick something else?

 

I read accounts and spoke to many but can't find one guy who practiced Falun gong long term and as the main practice like Taiji. Everyone seems to like it but still moves over to something else

 

I have been running MCO for the last couple months but after getting into Falun for the last 3 weeks, the MCO won't run no more. Or its possible its running differently. But my energy levels are pretty high and most people around can feel it.

 

Searched old posts and found some stuff

 

Thank you, Senseikarma.

 

The main reason I discontinued it was (...was self-edited on second thought.) It just happens with practices. A few stick with one, most eventually try something new. People are fickle. Or they get curious about something else. Or seduced. Or it's their destiny to wind up altogether elsewhere. In my case, whatever I ever practiced, I wouldn't take back. It's all good long as you practice (by "you" in this context I mean "me." )

 

Oh, and what's this with "entities" and "possessions" again (in the quotes you found and some current entries) -- didn't we have enough of that with kunlun? For chrissake. Research. There's not a single ancient culture that didn't discover the falun. It is as much an "entity" as the "lower dantien" or "MCO" or "yin-yang symbol." P-lease. I collect superstitions of the world as a hobby, and I've discovered that the biggest bad-assest demon of them all has always and everywhere been the Demon of Witch Hunting. If you're possessed by this one, you're doomed!

Doooooooomed I tell ya!

 

From my memory you have to at least attend a course with instructors who already have it, and so Li Hong Zi's "helpers" are with them and then they install it in you... But if it's true that through practice it comes automatically then I'm glad I didn't invest any serious time into it.

Oh, OK. Like I said, I don't remember exactly all the details, not only because it was a while ago but because I started practicing with a group that was mostly Chinese and I didn't understand more than 1/10 of what I was told in the first couple of sessions. Then I did read the book, but it was long ago... so I'm not going to argue.

[Sunya]

Kenneth Folk is a wonderful, fairly low-key, teacher. He became enlightened through Burmese style Vipassana (and is a personal long-time friend to Daniel Ingram) but also teaches other, more direct, methods such as self-inquiry as well as open awareness-style practice. His site has lots of useful articles and theres a forum too.

 

http://kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/

[Mal]

In the UK - Burgs

 

His book was excellent reading, but not sure if it's still available.

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showtopic=6252

 

I also quite like

 

Ken Cohen's The Essential Qigong Training Course

Lots of good stuff in there.