involuntary celibacy and isolation

[Non]

I know most of you won't take this seriously.

 

I'm a male, and I'm also very different from all of you. I also have other problems that go beyond the scope of this topic/thread or at the very least do not contribute to my getting better. Ie, that I have other problems which do cause problems but the root is definitely involuntary celibacy and extreme isolation. It causes most of my problems and contributes to most of my problems.

 

Don't talk to me if you're already healthy, and think this is an easy thing to overcome when you yourself are already healthy from the start and mentally healthy or perhaps never experienced ill health due to involuntary celibacy and isolation.

 

Unless of course you have something positive to say. And positive means helpful.

 

This is only for those who can understand that I'm already at the extreme depths of unhealthiness caused by the following.

 

I've been an involuntary celibate for a very long time. My whole life in fact, and I'm 23 years old. i've also been extremely lonely for a very long time.

 

I feel it has led to major depression and mental ill as well as physical ill.

 

I dont want to go to a psychiatrist that doesn't treat me for the root of my problem, first off. And second off the majority of the psychiatric drugs mess you up if taken in the long run.

 

You have to understand it's very hard for me to do normal things due to this depression and lack of self esteem, that simply does not go away no matter how hard I tried.

 

It blocks all sort of avenues and opportunity to get better, especially in regards to getting sex, and away from isolation.

 

Is there anything a person like me can do?

 

Going to the gym and exercising doesn't help, although I still do it but I oftentimes lack motivation. But this is besides the point. It doesn't treat my illness.

 

My illness can only be treated by getting that which I need.

 

But that illness keeps me from getting what I need, and it's not simply dependent on myself (ie others have to accept who I am).

Edited January 17, 2010 by Non

[Sarnyn]

I know most of you won't take this seriously.

 

I'm a male, and I'm also very different from all of you. I also have other problems that go beyond the scope of this topic/thread or at the very least do not contribute to my getting better. Ie, that I have other problems which do cause problems but the root is definitely involuntary celibacy and extreme isolation. It causes most of my problems and contributes to most of my problems.

 

Don't talk to me if you're already healthy, and think this is an easy thing to overcome when you yourself are already healthy from the start and mentally healthy.

 

This is only for those who can understand that I'm already at the extreme depths of unhealthiness caused by the following.

 

I've been an involuntary celibate for a very long time. My whole life in fact, and I'm 23 years old. i've also been extremely lonely for a very long time.

 

I feel it has led to major depression and mental ill as well as physical ill.

 

I dont want to go to a psychiatrist that doesn't treat me for the root of my problem, first off. And second off the majority of the psychiatric drugs mess you up if taken in the long run.

 

You have to understand it's very hard for me to do normal things due to this depression and lack of self esteem, that simply does not go away no matter how hard I tried.

 

It blocks all sort of avenues and opportunity to get better, especially in regards to getting sex, and away from isolation.

 

Is there anything a person like me can do?

 

Going to the gym and exercising doesn't help, although I still do it but I oftentimes lack motivation. But this is besides the point. It doesn't treat my illness.

 

My illness can only be treated by getting that which I need.

 

But that illness keeps me from getting what I need, and it's not simply dependent on myself (ie others have to accept who I am).

 

Why are you involuntarily celibate, and isolated? What causes you to be stuck in this condition?

[Non]

I'm practically still a virgin, and I've never had a relationship with a female.

 

not even friendship.

 

 

I also haven't really had male friends in my life either. or at least not in a social way.

Edited January 17, 2010 by Non

[Sarnyn]

I'm practically still a virgin, and I've never had a relationship with a female.

 

not even friendship.

I also haven't really had male friends in my life either. or at least not in a social way.

I understand,

 

but why? Why are you still "practically" a virgin, and why don't you have any friends?

[Non]

because I just never had any of that which I need in the first place.

 

I don't even know how to attain that which I do not know I am trying to achieve.

Edited January 17, 2010 by Non

[Sarnyn]

because I just never had any of that which I need in the first place.

 

I don't even know how to attain that which I do not know I am trying to achieve.

 

I'm not sure what you mean. What is stopping you from getting out and meeting people? What specifically are you insecure about?

[Lucky7Strikes]

I know most of you won't take this seriously..

1) Meditate, look into your desires, insecurities, find where it arises, read some books on Buddhism, practice Qi Gong, and generally all the stuff on this forum.

 

2) SEE A THERAPIST (preferably a woman, not to have sex with her, but to just get used to becoming comfortable around women)

 

3) Read some books on getting women or take a course or making friends (stuff like this is everywhere these days).

 

4) Get a hooker. In all seriousness. Strong obsessions, a lot of it having to do with societal conditioning, can't be uprooted simply by meditating or insight (although it can be done). The only positive thing that might come out of this is seeing through the foolishness of sexual obsessions.

 

5) Just go out and try to have conversations, join a group, or something social.

 

But above all, I recommend brutal honesty into your situation. Don't be afraid to ask questions. Ask where your insecurity comes from (Am I so ugly? What constitutes ugliness? Why don't people like me? What is it to like someone? What is it about my life that has led me to this? What can I do differently?) and you probably have all the answers but have just shunned them. This is the toughest, but most of the things I recommended above will lead to this. Face your fears.

 

Good luck!

Edited January 17, 2010 by Lucky7Strikes

[Non]

I'm not bad looking. And I'm not a bad person. Whatever that means.

 

I'm also against hookers. What difference does getting a hooker make compared to masturbation?

 

Not much I think.

 

There's no hope for me.

[Encephalon]

Given all the advice about not soliciting psychological advice from the internet, you could actually do much worse than asking for help from this forum, because there are dozens (hundreds? Thousands?) of us who have wrestled with the inner demon of low self esteem, low ego strength, however you wish to define it. If this is your core demon, then there is hope, and you're in good company.

 

You need to be specific about your plight. We're not here to play "20 Questions." There's no such thing as "practically a virgin;" that's right up there with "kinda pregnant."

 

The term "involuntary celibacy" is also cumbersome. Celibacy is sexual abstinence, including masturbation. If you're suffering the plight of loneliness but still have orgasms then you are not living a celibate life.

 

Kindly respond to these simple points first before we start pulling teeth, or else this will appear as another episode of "Harvesting sympathy from the Internet."

 

There's a lot of wisdom in here if you know how to ask for it.

[Sarnyn]

I'm not bad looking. And I'm not a bad person. Whatever that means.

 

I'm also against hookers. What difference does getting a hooker make compared to masturbation?

 

Not much I think.

 

There's no hope for me.

 

So you are not bad looking and you're not a bad person. So why then? Why are you isolated? What stops you from interacting with people in any meaningful way?

[Enishi]

Non,

 

Your situation sounds very similar to the state I was in several years ago. I didn't lose my virginity until I was 25. Low self esteem and lack of motivation is a definite factor that I feel many people don't understand. If your sense of self esteem is low enough, making changes which might feel easy to others can feel as hard as climbing Mt.Everest.

 

There is hope though. The more good experiences one has, the more you can draw on them as a source of strength. (combining good memories, however minor, with Secret Smile was a major technique I used to break my depression).

 

Don't limit yourself to finding a girlfriend as your only option. Tbh, there is just as many women out there who are a waste of carbon as there are men, and having a girlfriend/wife break your heart can be worse than loneliness. Sometimes a good one night stand or fling with a friend you can trust will be much better for your soul than a prolonged bad relationship.

 

In regards to hookers, I'm not going to say you should go ahead and do it, but keep in mind that a streetwalker type hooker who is addicted to heroin or works under a pimp is not the same as a high class escort. A lady who is good at giving a GFE (girlfriend experience), even if its just a back massage, will be able to get the serotonin and oxytocin flowing for you even if you know on an "intellectual" level that she isn't attracted.

Edited January 17, 2010 by Enishi

[hajimesaito]

Given that you are in this forum, I would assume that you are also a practitioner of one of the mind-body-spiritual arts (most likely Taoist). If thats the case, then your problem should have long been solved already. Buddhists and Taoists cherish celibacy and solitude because these things help the individual to develop spiritually. And once the person gravitates to higher spiritual levels instead of the mundane complexity of regular people, then self-confidence, self-esteem etc come naturally. Wisdom also comes naturally.

 

Meditate. Thats your only solution. You are in solitude but your mind is more wilder than those who are not in the kind of isolation that you exist in.

 

If your mind-energy is not as chaotic as now, or it tends to be still, then you will feel happy whereever you are. Associating with a master who can teach you will also be good for you.

 

I, unlike you, like solitude and peace, and rather try to keep the level of lust to a minimum.

Edited January 17, 2010 by hajimesaito

[Gjeken]

Edited January 22, 2010 by Gjeken

[Spectrum]

Allow me to introduce you to my other lover; Chastity

 

Isolation and Chastity coexist; when you meditate w/ Chastity your slowly working the steel w the stone.

 

Going to the gym and exercising doesn't help

 

Here is your first mistake: negative dialog about physical action: sounds like getting laid will help you, and that's as physical as it gets; but if you're not going to change your attitude yourself, no woman is going to change it for you, none worth investing your gold with

 

although I still do it but I oftentimes lack motivation. But this is besides the point. It doesn't treat my illness:

 

trapdoor here: and you've fallen for the lie; "you're" illness is located inside your body, physicalality and increased internal awareness will assit in locating and ridding yourself of.... "your" illness. It's you, afterall.

 

I dont want to go to a psychiatrist that doesn't treat me for the root of my problem, first off. And second off the majority of the psychiatric drugs mess you up if taken in the long run.

 

Your brain has the drug you need.

 

You have to understand it's very hard for me to do normal things due to this depression and lack of self esteem, that simply does not go away no matter how hard I tried.

 

You need a friend to show up at your house at 4:30am, physically drag you out of bed, beat you if you refuse to go for a jog, slap you when you complain, encourage you when you get tired, feed you good food when you are hungry. Basically you need to stfu and start being serious about your training or you're going to be a looser for the rest of your so far miserable existance. When you admit that you are unable to reach your goals alone, and align yourself with a group or teacher that enables you to reach those goals, systematically, and with conviction, then you will most certainly feel different energy, because you will have accomplished PHYSICAL goals that no-one will ever be able to take from you, that your body had to PHYSICALLY adapt to, and the must let go of previous negative dialog in order to accept the more accurate positive dialogs of the body.

 

My illness can only be treated by getting that which I need.

 

(uh huh, me too; air, water, food, clothes/warmth) after you ACTUALLY have what you need, then you think about other things, perhaps if you go without what you REALLY need, it will give you a different perspective about what you're sprinkling on top. fasting is a basic principle that is often overlooked and can be applied to any emotional desire or psycho physical attachment

 

But that illness keeps me from getting what I need, and it's not simply dependent on myself (ie others have to accept who I am).

 

You're not THAT special. We're ALL that special. Go sit in the middle of a playground for a while and consider what you really NEED to survive, and how many steps it takes to get to the middle of that tootsie pop.

Edited January 17, 2010 by Spectrum

[Birch]

Hey Non,

 

Sounds awful to feel that way. And it is!I understand that if you think the way you're thinking, well, one couldn't help but feel like shit.

 

I can "bed" any man I want (pretty much;-)) but does this make me happy? Nope. Not one damn bit.

 

LOVE. Love for yourself and your needs and your life. If you were my little brother I would MAKE you go out and have fun dammit;-)

 

By all means isolate yourself if you need to (some people need more silence and solitude than others - I'd include myself on that list) but to balance that out, get out. GO out to meet people. Yes I will throw you the ole "volunteer" thing. Go see some people who have it really bad. Help them.

 

In the absence of any desire to feel anything for anyone apart from yourself, go see a therapist. They don't all reach for the meds (especially if you make it clear you're not down with that.)

 

If you need to get laid - go out and lay the girl that needs you to do that with her(it's a mutual thing, despite what some cultures would have us believe. I remember just saying to myself, "I need that to be done" and the very next day I had a swing in my step and the world looked different;-))

[Non]

No kate.

 

There's nothing I can do.

 

I know you mean well. I'm sorry.

 

I can try all the advice given on here. None of them would work for me.

 

I'm just not attractive to any woman on this goddamn earth.

 

I'm sorry.

 

I'm doing my best but I've got some serious issues at hand.

 

Women are like drones. They want perfection.. and I am far from that. They are the manifestation of natural selection and I am being bred out of existence. Out of the book of Life.

 

There's nothing I can do.

 

Just forget it and let this thread die.

 

edit: actually it has nothing to do with natural selection. It's all about sexual selection. And women are in control of that, since I can't force a woman to do anything. I don't choose, they do. They have all the rights. I have none.

 

It is obvious that a woman doesn't have to do anything special and most likely she will always get something.

 

But the guy on the other hand, has to be perfect. Every aspect of him. If he is lackin in any aspect he loses in competition with the "better" man. Always.

 

It is also very discouraging and disheartening when you see that criminals and gangsters and 'badboys' get the majority of the women when good guys at heart get nothing but unrequited love. This means that sexual selection really has nothing even to do with natural selection and the propogation of "good" genes.

 

To be rejected by woman means to be rejected by 'god'. It means that internally you are non-existent since it is light penetrates the darkness.. since there's no darkness, I have no light. and that means in effect that I don't exist.

 

Just let this thread die off just like my very essence will, regardless of what I do.

 

yea pretty fuckin dramatic.

Edited January 18, 2010 by Non

[Birch]

Ok. Blasto! You know stuff about this. Pero, where's a PUA when we need one;-) ?

 

Mal! Scott! Mr Marblehead and Mr Cow. King K. You're all great guys. Help a little bro out.

 

Non, you will probably not listen to me. So I need to ask the men to weigh in.

[Non]

I don't do PUA stuff.

 

I had bad experiences with PUA material, and believe me in high school I tried it.

 

I was successful in getting interest from girls but I figured it was shallow, so I stopped. Figured most people are shallow anyways.

 

The end.

Edited January 18, 2010 by Non

[Encephalon]

No kate.

 

There's nothing I can do.

 

I know you mean well. I'm sorry.

 

I can try all the advice given on here. None of them would work for me.

 

I'm just not attractive to any woman on this goddamn earth.

 

I'm sorry.

 

I'm doing my best but I've got some serious issues at hand.

 

Women are like drones. They want perfection.. and I am far from that. They are the manifestation of natural selection and I am being bred out of existence. Out of the book of Life.

 

There's nothing I can do.

 

Just forget it and let this thread die.

 

edit: actually it has nothing to do with natural selection. It's all about sexual selection. And women are in control of that, since I can't force a woman to do anything. I don't choose, they do. They have all the rights. I have none.

 

It is obvious that a woman doesn't have to do anything special and most likely she will always get something.

 

But the guy on the other hand, has to be perfect. Every aspect of him. If he is lackin in any aspect he loses in competition with the "better" man. Always.

 

It is also very discouraging and disheartening when you see that criminals and gangsters and 'badboys' get the majority of the women when good guys at heart get nothing but unrequited love. This means that sexual selection really has nothing even to do with natural selection and the propogation of "good" genes.

 

To be rejected by woman means to be rejected by 'god'. It means that internally you are non-existent since it is light penetrates the darkness.. since there's no darkness, I have no light. and that means in effect that I don't exist.

 

Just let this thread die off just like my very essence will, regardless of what I do.

 

yea pretty fuckin dramatic.

 

 

Yes, by all means, let this thread die. I agree, you're about as pathetic and morbidly dramatic as they come. Don't stop now. The trick to getting people to truly pity you is to demonstrate just how impotent you are, at which point they won't piss on your head if your hair is on fire. Then you will have arrived at the state of pure loneliness.

 

Wallow in this spring of self-pity. Drink deeply, really soak in it. When it dawns on you that this strategy of getting mercy fucks no longer works, you'll clip off your imaginary umbilical cord and try something more productive.

[voidisyinyang]

Non do you live in a place with LOTS OF SMOKE -- because sadness is from too much smoke -- causing a lung blockage. Also if you are vegetarian then your jing energy will be weak. Just a couple things to keep in mind. If your jing energy increases from meat then females will pick up on that and hit on you to get your jing energy. If that seems fake to you -- well most people just do not know better. If you want real love then focus on your chi energy -- what ever you do -- keep your hands off your weiner unless you're pissing. If you're masturbating then you're not going to attract females.

 

I don't do PUA stuff.

 

I had bad experiences with PUA material, and believe me in high school I tried it.

 

I was successful in getting interest from girls but I figured it was shallow, so I stopped. Figured most people are shallow anyways.

 

The end.

[Guest paul walter]

Ok. Blasto! You know stuff about this. Pero, where's a PUA when we need one;-) ?

 

Mal! Scott! Mr Marblehead and Mr Cow. King K. You're all great guys. Help a little bro out.

 

Non, you will probably not listen to me. So I need to ask the men to weigh in.

 

 

Kate, don't bother. Non knows exactly what he wants and is staying put. Non, you forgot to mention that you suffer mostly from arrogance and from a mind that is firmly fixed at the navel. I have been like you, I am like you and will perhaps be like you for a long time ( god help me! ). You posted for 'help' last week also and were given it and now you're back grand-standing about your pain. Some of us UNDERSTAND you and have been 'there' ourselves. Unfortunately, the corrollary of being in such a state for so long is that you loose context-you think nothing will change, you think everything is doomed and you think YOU are everything. Can't you make a MOVE on advice offered? Perhaps not. But don't worry-that too is a symptom of being in your condition. It is a symptom, a learned behaviour, not a death sentence.

Hey, I didn't have any relation with a girl til I was 21, I was born quite UGLY but when I got 'enlightened' by forgetting myself at age 20 I could have just about ANY girl I wanted because of the 'aura' I gave off (and still could, so get to work,bro ), though like yourself I consider that sort of relating abhorrent. It's not hard to see Bi-polar or Borderline Personality Disorder symptoms in your posts and if that's the case i feel for you and know the hell it must be. Try to remember EVERYTHING changes depending on the direction we put our minds--what seems like a suicide day can turn to a joy day IF we let ourselves out of our own self-defeat now and then. I understand that if you can't trust yourself there is no way you can trust others-that's just the territory we're dealing with. You have to make a supreme effort to let yourself have the courage to want to change. If you don't cheer up you will force me to tell you what happened to me in the last five years and then you'll see who the real loser is!! Paul P.S. Remember the internet is a perfect 'Twilight Zone' for you're 'type', in that it just feeds the illusion of anonymous voices crying in the dark. Do you have trouble talking like you do in the flesh and blood world? I suppose you don't confide in 'real' people in which case perhaps all you need is validation from like-minded types? Write back, Non.

[fiveelementtao]

the root is definitely involuntary celibacy and extreme isolation. It causes most of my problems and contributes to most of my problems.

It is not the root or cause of your problems it is the result of your problems. If you work on the true causes of your real issues, the result (involuntary celibacy and isolation) will take care of itself.

 

No one is minimizing your difficulties. Many of us have been in similar situations. You are not "different from everyone else." This attitude only increases your isolation. If you really want help, you're going to have to be willing to do things that you don't like. Get some therapy. It may take years of therapy before you are able to see your life turn around. I'm sorry if that is not what you want to hear, But since you asked for helpful advice, I am giving it. It doesn't mean you have to like it or agree with it. You have been fishing around for people to tell you what you want to hear instead of wanting to hear what you really need...

[Guest paul walter]

Yes, by all means, let this thread die. I agree, you're about as pathetic and morbidly dramatic as they come. Don't stop now. The trick to getting people to truly pity you is to demonstrate just how impotent you are, at which point they won't piss on your head if your hair is on fire. Then you will have arrived at the state of pure loneliness.

 

Wallow in this spring of self-pity. Drink deeply, really soak in it. When it dawns on you that this strategy of getting mercy fucks no longer works, you'll clip off your imaginary umbilical cord and try something more productive.

 

 

Non, most of what you say about women etc is true but this post is also true. Please try to understand there is no contradiction in this. Paul

[Non]

well, if that's what you all think of my honesty and frustration.

[fiveelementtao]

well, if that's what you all think of my honesty and frustration.

Non, stop with the same thing over and over. GET SOME THERAPY... People are getting tired of you saying the same. You need counseling....