involuntary celibacy and isolation

[Non]

Man... you are so wrong! hahahaha!!! I laugh not at you.. but because I know how you feel! Man i've been there! Many of us have. I used to think the same way, that my looks defined me and since I wasn't Brad Pitt I was shit outta luck. But then I decided to take matters into my own hands, after isolating myself I learned the 'PUA' arts, which only did one thing: gave me confidence. And now I can tell you very easily that you are wrong. I think Kate, or another female (I can't think of any others so Kate is our designated female) will agree.. it's NOT about looks, it's ALL about confidence. it's about your energy, it's how you present yourself, it's how you act, its how you react, it's about your vibe, your PRESENCE. After I realized I can bed any girl I want I sort of lost that desire for a while. Isolation is only worthwhile when its a choice, not when its forced. When you know you can get sex you kind of don't need it anymore,.... well actually I had sex last week and it was great, but it wasn't out of comfort, it wasn't out of need, and that makes it SO much more enjoyable.

 

Get in touch with yourself, your presence, let go of self-defeating thought patterns. Be aware of these patterns as they unfold your mind, they always carry a certain negativity and underlying emotion of fear and unworthiness. Go out and socialize, talk to guys first.. talk to old ladies! talk to anyone! Read stuff by Juggler. He taught me how to be a great conversationalist.. and actually got me into Buddhism suprisingly. He's the one 'pick up artist' that I know that teaches you to be genuine, honest, and yourself... others may teach you how to be cocky and memorize lines but Juggler teaches you how to be you.

 

Meditating is important... I think you should do that. but you can't repress your needs. You gotta get laid, brother. Talk to people, gain confidence, meet girls and befriend them. Don't hit on them but be genuine and honest and if they attract you: tell them that, and tell them why. Make the move; don't expect the girl to. You're the man and you have the power, if you like a girl you can get her. If you walk and breath with that power then any girl will fall for you because women are naturally passive. It is in their nature to yearn for a man that knows what he wants. Create values with your actions, set values for yourself and LIVE those values. Don't live your life based on values created by society or the media. Don't become a slave to self-defeating values. Just do it man, stop making excuses. We're all with you.

 

Just to make sure.. confidence can be faked by many. So women can get "seduced" by it.

 

But the fact that pick up artist material also focuses on getting laid with as many women as possible, and putting All Other Males who don't go by "their rules", to debilitating shame, and building up their seminars based on this vampiristic way of just insulting, and degrading anyone.

 

So how do they get people to acheive things? Usually the way bootcamp does.. that is, tearing down and completely destroying one's identity, but in a very Brutal and Violent fashion, and then rebuilding it up. There's other ways to do that.

 

Of course, there's goign to be another here who says "you're just a pussy man, stand up and be a man you bitch". Etc.

 

People need positive affirmation, not negative affirmation.

Edited January 20, 2010 by Non

[Non]

None of us have any magic words, new concepts or startling ideas that can help you. 5Elements is right when he said "celibacy and isolation are not the root or cause of your problems it is the result of your problems. If you work on the true causes of your real issues, the result (involuntary celibacy and isolation) will take care of itself."

 

You've got body, mind and spirit. Your mind is a hornet's nest (we've all been there) and spirit is hard to work with. That leaves your body. Forget woman, let your celibacy work for you and progress slowly. Each morning and night for a week 5 pushups, 5 squats. Thats it. Next week move on to sets of 10 etc., see if there are elements of your diet you can improve, maybe more protein or things that build up Jing.

 

Set up an easy physical program, find a book, progress slowly. You'll start feeling better and learn to trust yourself. Try it, work on developing healthy habits, from the body you'll get to the mind and straighten it out.

 

My 2 cents (though like the others have said, an expert therapist will get you better faster)

 

 

Good Luck

Michael

 

yeah I'm sure, that celibacy was probably not the Root Cause of my problems even tho I stated in the beginning post that it was, but I take it back.

 

Though it has been the cause of my not getting better, atleast because maybe I haven't been practicing it the right way. But lately I think I'm getting the hang of it.

[Non]

says you paul.

 

man you people don't know how to handle me without getting insulting. And I'm being "negative".

 

So I'm just like one of those "homeless dudes" that dress up in raggedy clothes and begs for money. And then it's used to buy drugs or something.

 

Or like.. one of those people in india that break their childrens bones to get more money to bring home from the tourists they beg.

 

So i'm just like one of those people who put drain all your energy and then use it all for evil.

 

Sometimes poeple are just viscious.

 

I'm sorry. Oh wait, I can't say I'm sorry.

 

Oh and I can't show emotions or have pain, or be honest because that's fake.

 

 

 

 

so I apologize. Oh wait I can't do that either i'm just tryin to gain sympathy.

 

 

 

 

Non, you ARE trying to gain sympathy and you have every right to. The problem is that when it is offered you have the obligation to ACCEPT that sympathy. No-one seems to be able to do this in the contemporary world, for lack of trust obviously, but also for out and out stupid egocentric reasons, so beware . You are simply replicating what you are so against. The world operates on holographic principles: the self mirrors the religions mirrors the economic system mirrors the society mirrors the family through the indoctrination that is everywhere... I see 'you' as not so different from the alienation/lack of communication that is rife in society, so be careful and don't make the fatal mistake i have made in thinking that you are so very different in all ways. At least you are feeling the pain. Now as you have so perceptively stated:you have a serious problem. So how to get out of it? If you have made your mind up that there is no hope,there is no hope. If you think you will only 'move' on your problems when people are listening to how bad off you are then now is the time to start, since people have been listening. I'm not being harsh here (internet tone problems!) since I know your condition recoils at such a perception--so I'll apologise for anything that seemed judgemental and too demanding. Most people who have replied to your posts see your pain very clearly Non, it's just that they are too selfish to be able to accomodate it at this stage in their life. Perhaps they are in denial about their own pain (this has been my experience with people big time--just when you need them they go AWOL on you!). Like a nasty Zen teacher I can't take the 'soft' option with peoples' indulgence in their problems (I know you don't see it that way though). Since my own IMMENSE suffering has momentarily tipped the balance on the accommodating-pain scale I'll be careful what I say in future . As I said in another post I recommend homeopathy as a first stop in alleviating the immedate pain you are going through. If you really want relief from suffering then go for it. I'd recommend it to everyone but most people don't believe in/want the self to change no matter how bad off they are. Am presently changing my mother with it after 60 years of undiagnosed mental illness--she's like a new person already. Paul.

 

yeah.. I have a problem with some homeopathy tho. To see a homeopathic doc is expensive here... and I live with my father, so he wouldn't approve of seeing some "fake doctor to solve a problem I should see a psychiatrist for or something".

 

That and many of the formulas aren't vegan.

 

But I will see if I can perhaps find a cheap one?

 

I did try some , ignatia and it did help tho. or some other one I tried that was for calming the nerves. I didn't think it would work, because how could such and EXTREME dilution such that "not one molecule of active components remain", as some TV documentaries have stated. But I took the whole bottle and I did notice relaxation. So I thought, ok there is something in these things...

Edited January 20, 2010 by Non

[Guest paul walter]

Ok, Non you have more than made up for your other posts which were a bit put-offish at times. It's good to see you engage rather than just stating your probs. Yes, I relate to all of what your 'problems' are so thought I could offer advice/help/feedback maybe btter than a lot of others? with the diet it's tricky if certain factors aren't taken into account such as how much food intake you are burnng up every day and most importantly what kind of metaboliser you are (some are fast , some slow, some in-between etc.). If you are a fast metaboliser for example you will need to cut down high carb intake and up protein and fat. They say fast metabolisers should get meat into them and if they don't they can get all manner of short and long term health probs/mind disorders. Still, there are ways around it for vegos. Ok--so there is a lot too it and realise I can't go into advice giving in a post or I'll be here all day. Also eating low on the glyciemic index is a must for all people or there will most likely be probs with blood-sugar imbalance which is another way of saying manic-depression type symptoms (if the imbalance is high). All your other complaints with society I find very natural, though not to the point where it is INTERNALISED and destroys you, though this too is tricky to control. I think people are all connected and completely alone at the same time--the problem is when one starts wanting that to be different. If you stay a humanist when you 'gain' this insight you will burn in hell and be torn with contradictions everyday until the lesson is learned that you have outgrown certain illusions that human culture keeps throwing up at us. If you lived in a sane culture your knowledge would be valued and it wouldn't be a constant sruggle to assert the reality that you have 'discovered'. That said, when you have the outlook you are claiming it is the time to start detatching if you truly believe in your insights, otherwise the contradictions between you and society will tear you apart. (I can now see how lucky I have been in life--I grew up real poor, dysfunctional parent, no education,ugly, I met my female soulmate and she tried to kill me for four years..I was blessed in 'spiritual' terms hee hee). I think there is NO reconciliation between wisdom and society as it exists, merely accommodation--and that means YOU will have to start doing all the work because society is at an infant stage where it is hardly able to be magnanimous enough to accomodate difference. That's what democracy means now--everyone is so democratically levelled that difference isn't allowed HA. Well, have to go excercise, Write a PM if you want to talk vegan nutrition, might be more appropriate than here. Paul.

[fiveelementtao]

I am, I already found a therapist. My first session was last week, the intake.

 

She decided I wasn't going to benefit much from a social anxiety group therapy, and that I should just do solo for now. At least, her excuse was that I'd just not benefit as much from it rather than seeing a psychologist solo.

That's great, Non...

So what does that mean? Are you scheduled to see one solo? It takes a while before you make any significant progress...So, when is your next appointment?

[Enishi]

Some of the PUA stuff is good as training wheels. In my experience you don't need to become a manipulative player in order to learn some of the basic principles. Once you start learning what it's like to feel confident around women or people in general, the 'right' responses and actions will start coming without constantly having to remember a bunch of artificial rules.

 

I think it's good that you found a therapist Non. My only suggestion would be to take her words with a grain of salt if she starts giving the whole PC spill on how women want 'nice guys'. They don't, even if they think they do. 'Kind' yes, but not 'nice'. All to often being nice means acting like a doormat because one subconsciously wants people to like them.

 

Other suggestions I would have are:

 

Don't bother going for women who are taller than you. It's a waste of time in my experience.

 

Don't limit yourself to seeking out a partner in your own area. I'm kinda hesitant to post the following link because the author Winston Wu is an immoral ass tbh, but the stuff he mentions about the US dating scene sucking for men does have some truth to it.

 

http://www.happierabroad.com/

Edited January 20, 2010 by Enishi

[That Guy]

Theres nothing wrong in living in a box you've made for yourself as long as you're happy. However if you're unhappy move into a different box, or expand this one. Simpler said than done I know but try new things, and I mean not just things directed at fixing your current problems but generally in life, doing new things will open different paths you can walk along, and before you know it you can look back and all your problems will be behind you.

 

Summary:

-Try new things

-Don't focus on your problems (don't ignore them either)

-Enjoy the good things you do have going for you

 

Good Luck my friend

[Non]

Some of the PUA stuff is good as training wheels. In my experience you don't need to become a manipulative player in order to learn some of the basic principles. Once you start learning what it's like to feel confident around women or people in general, the 'right' responses and actions will start coming without constantly having to remember a bunch of artificial rules.

 

I think it's good that you found a therapist Non. My only suggestion would be to take her words with a grain of salt if she starts giving the whole PC spill on how women want 'nice guys'. They don't, even if they think they do. 'Kind' yes, but not 'nice'. All to often being nice means acting like a doormat because one subconsciously wants people to like them.

 

Other suggestions I would have are:

 

Don't bother going for women who are taller than you. It's a waste of time in my experience.

 

Don't limit yourself to seeking out a partner in your own area. I'm kinda hesitant to post the following link because the author Winston Wu is an immoral ass tbh, but the stuff he mentions about the US dating scene sucking for men does have some truth to it.

 

http://www.happierabroad.com/

 

You got that right about the US dating scene, really sucking for men. But I doubt it's any different anywhere else.

 

All of today's society's are usually dysfunctional.

 

There's no woman in my age group that actually wants to be committed to a relationship. Nobody cares about monogamy. UNless you have lots of money, and are older, or just very fortunate. And women care not for fairness. And all their guy sex friends who just pass her around. They dont care that I might be a rich person in the future, or that I'll be popular, whatever. In the meantime I am a SAD LONELY FUCK. They all just want sex buddies, or whatever you want to call it. No strings attatched , friends with benefits, etc.

 

This isn't really something I can do. First off, making actual friends with a girl is extremely hard, that is if I want to go the "friends with benefits way" which something usually goes wrong because, someone usually develops feelings, or whatever. I also think any unserious relationship isn't really natural. Just because people can use condoms now, everyone wants to fuck around. it shouldn't be like that.

 

So like I said, this isn't really something I can do for one, especially the sex buddy thing. I cannot separate sex with a committed relationship. That's how it should be naturally. And also, it requires that I be superficial, and/or borderline offensive and sexually explicit to an extreme degree. And I simply don't have the guts to do that to any woman without really knowing she wants it. And trust me, girls make themselves completely unnapproachable to me, because I have to be "perfect". There really isn't any woman that cares. I'm not "perfect" because, for one I dont have an extreme amount of money, or I'm not fortunate with a number of superficial characteristics which she may think makes up my personality.

 

I'm also very different, in my society (The USA) my kind are considered outcasts. But me extremely so. it's ok to be an outcast when you're already much older and have experienced a sexual life, or have a partner, but at my age no. It doesn't get you anywhere in life, neither does it get you any friends. I also can't change myself to conform to society.

 

I'm still in college, getting my college degree. When I get out, all the girls will have been fucked senseless the whole time. I don't care who you are, Every girl is getting fucked and fooling around, and by a guy much older than me, with more money, or just more fortunate at the time. Girls don't care about fairness. And so after college, I dont think I want to get with any of those hoes.

 

So much for your "serial monogamy" crap. If they cared about monogamy they would be more serious, even when single, even during college. After college, who knows, you'll meet your dream "boy toy" and you'll want to be with him, but he won't want to because all throughout your life you've been giving it up, and to people you really don't care for, or who dont care for you,and without caring for the consequences. I am not getting stuck with a girl who's mind and body have gone through the havoc of this fake societal sexual structures that are made from this stupid industry.

Edited January 21, 2010 by Non

[Non]

and the guys, just keep using women, and insulting them and their body's, and even themselves. They're messing it up for everyone else.

 

Stop being complacent, and I say that for the women too, because they are also complacent.

[Non]

and the guys, just keep using women, and insulting them and their body's, and even themselves. They're messing it up for everyone else.

 

Stop being complacent, and I say that for the women too, because they are also complacent.

 

 

No one cares about purity. Maybe just the christians, but I dont go there. And even christians don't care. Even spiritual persons don't give a flying damn feck.

 

Purity is also, nothing about some stupid ethical agreement that is only a personal opinion. I mean it is, but it is also reasonable, and based on our biology.

 

So is true ethics but nobody knows ethics. Everyone thinks it's just relative, and without reason.

 

What about the bioethics. Bioethics of sexual and societal traditions.

 

It's easy to say that it's all relative, until it's your life on the line.

 

Ok, sorry. Ranting like a crazy madman.

Edited January 21, 2010 by Non

[Non]

it doesn't matter what the F i do to improve myself. My values, and my opinons, my personality is so different from others that I have no place here in society.

 

Because society is mean, and superficial and extreme materialist, such that, I couldn't even be able to improve myself, because I am not that type of person.

Edited January 21, 2010 by Non

[Non]

so I'm practicing celibacy.

 

It might be ok. But it would be even better if all women didn't reject (even on simple interaction or for friendship or something) me based on superficial qualities, and my differences of personality.

 

A person needs interaction. For a man to be totally alone is not good.

 

And I also have no guy friends. Can't really get any at this point..

 

I'm too messed up to even begin with, and its all due to my lonliness. Plus it can be gay. Women are preffered, but anyways, who really wants friends these days? I mean seriously, what relationship isn't caused by a simple want or desire of sex? Or to get from the other person. Just take and take and take. Never give.

 

Hopefully, I can probably transform all this lonliness to become like the buddha. Totally asexual, so that it doesn't bother me. But there's no way to be Asocial. Or is there?

Edited January 21, 2010 by Non

[That Guy]

Just find someone as lonely as you, at least you' might make a friend.

 

And do stuff, just stuff whatever it may be. Thats all I ll say, because unless you step out of what you think "simply is and cannot be changed and there are no exceptions except you" well it wont be easy

[Sarnyn]

it doesn't matter what the F i do to improve myself. My values, and my opinons, my personality is so different from others that I have no place here in society.

 

Because society is mean, and superficial and extreme materialist, such that, I couldn't even be able to improve myself, because I am not that type of person.

[Encephalon]

it doesn't matter what the F i do to improve myself. My values, and my opinons, my personality is so different from others that I have no place here in society.

 

Because society is mean, and superficial and extreme materialist, such that, I couldn't even be able to improve myself, because I am not that type of person.

[TaoLilly]

Hi Non! I'm new here but I'll give it a shot.

 

So "INvoluntary celibacy and isolation" basically means lack of a partner/sex and friends right? Hey, everyone's been there! Also, 23 and virgin, who cares? I honestly see nothing wrong with that.

 

Forget for now about working so hard in finding a partner or friends. Focus FIRST on enjoying life and doing things that you like. Some suggestions:

 

1- Read: No, not books about dating. Books about seeing life in a different light. How about "Stop Worrying and Start Living" or "The Magic of Thinking Big". Those seem like a good start. You may even read them at a nice library or coffeeshop, forcing you to leave your house.

 

2- Travel: Yeah, travel just by yourself. Is there a city or place you always wanted to visit? Well, plan the trip and go there! You will have a great time and will come back feeling great. Trust me!

 

3- Volunteer: Helping in charities is not only a great way to help others, but also a good way to put things in perspective and stop taking things for granted.

 

4- Meditate: Nothing much to add here!

 

5- Some Eastern Philosophy: I'm not an expert at all, but here I go: Try to work in harmony with those difficulties and problems life is throwing at you. Do not use your fight-or-flight response. Instead approach those problems with compassion. Approach your negative thoughts with compassion as well. Practice mindfulness, focus on the moment. Check out the book "The Mindful Way through Depression", good stuff there.

 

Hope this helps

Edited January 21, 2010 by TaoLilly

[Encephalon]

I have to give you credit for your perseverence and single-mindedness. You've managed to ignore virtually every piece of sensible advice offered, while maintaining your conviction that all your problems would be healed if women would just stop treating you unfairly and let you fuck them on a regular basis. Oh, how we pity you so!! Honest, we feel so sorry for your plight. You must be the first human male ever to suffer such alienation. And you're right!! Women truly are to blame for everything. Check the Book of Genesis.

 

I think you're conducting an experiment to see how much sympathy you can suck out of well-intentioned people. How's the experiment going? Is it for a psych class or soc?

[Non]

Man you got it all wrong.

[Spectrum]

Request for Cameo appearance by Cameron

[taichimantis]

No kate.

 

There's nothing I can do.

 

I know you mean well. I'm sorry.

 

I can try all the advice given on here. None of them would work for me.

 

I'm just not attractive to any woman on this goddamn earth.

 

I'm sorry.

 

I'm doing my best but I've got some serious issues at hand.

 

Women are like drones. They want perfection.. and I am far from that. They are the manifestation of natural selection and I am being bred out of existence. Out of the book of Life.

 

There's nothing I can do.

 

Just forget it and let this thread die.

 

edit: actually it has nothing to do with natural selection. It's all about sexual selection. And women are in control of that, since I can't force a woman to do anything. I don't choose, they do. They have all the rights. I have none.

 

It is obvious that a woman doesn't have to do anything special and most likely she will always get something.

 

But the guy on the other hand, has to be perfect. Every aspect of him. If he is lackin in any aspect he loses in competition with the "better" man. Always.

 

It is also very discouraging and disheartening when you see that criminals and gangsters and 'badboys' get the majority of the women when good guys at heart get nothing but unrequited love. This means that sexual selection really has nothing even to do with natural selection and the propogation of "good" genes.

 

To be rejected by woman means to be rejected by 'god'. It means that internally you are non-existent since it is light penetrates the darkness.. since there's no darkness, I have no light. and that means in effect that I don't exist.

 

Just let this thread die off just like my very essence will, regardless of what I do.

 

yea pretty fuckin dramatic.

 

 

Thats not dramatic, thats pathetic. Ask yourself one question, "why am I this way?" The answer, you will find, is because you are scared. You are ruled by fear on so many levels that it controls everything you do, and it keeps you contained in the depression filled bubble you now exist. Four words buddy, sack-the-fuck-up! Take the reins in your life! No ones advice on this forum will 'fix' you, you have to 'fix' you. Wake-up and start doing, stop watching.

Edited January 21, 2010 by taichimantis

[Jack Runner]

it doesn't matter what the F i do to improve myself. My values, and my opinons, my personality is so different from others that I have no place here in society.

 

Because society is mean, and superficial and extreme materialist, such that, I couldn't even be able to improve myself, because I am not that type of person.

 

Look brother, I'm not going to act like I know what you're going through, or even pretend I dont know how you feel. I think everyone here can agree with you that there are some malfunctions in our current society. That's plain as day.

 

But the drastic difference between them and you, is they chose their own reality, and DONT blame others for how they view it. They own up to themselves, and their environment.

 

Your values, and your opinions, are not unique by any means, to say you have no place in society means you've willingly removed your place in society. You're not the only person in the history of man to feel alienated by their environment, but the moment you start to think yourself separate from anyone here is the moment you separate yourself from them.

 

You create your OWN reality. YOU created your own reactions to others reactions towards you. YOU create the way people view you, yes there are people out there that just go with the fold, and that has ALWAYS been so. To say that you're not the type of person to be able to improve yourself, YOU are throwing away your power to change and putting it in the hands of others.

 

Try taking personal responsibly for who you are and what you want to become!

 

If you detest the world around you so much, take a page out of the book of Gandhi: You must be the change you wish to see in the world.- Mahatma Gandhi

 

I have news for you, Ghandi was alienated by his society, and he CHANGED it by changing himself, and has forever left a mark in the minds of every man, woman, and child for generations to come.

 

Stop worrying about what the "I"'s personal investment is in your life, and start asking the question how does this serve "me". The -I- is your ego, the -me- is all that you are.

 

Wake up and stop being a little bitch. Cause you came to the wrong place to look for a pat on the ass and for someone to say "hang in there kid"

 

I can already tell you didn't have any strong male/female roll models in your life, and I dont even know you. Thats just how transparate you make yourself out to be.

 

Evolve or die.

[Non]

dude. I know there are people who have been alienated by society. But for different reasons. I know too much. That's different from another person who simply "feels out of place" because everyone is simply unique in their own way. That's not the kind of isolation I'm talking about.

 

That and though there are some people who have known too much, they have been able to put it aside and live, fake lives. For one because they have no remorse, and they trained themselves to be absolutely emotional. And they probably

had a lot of experience growing up, before they got into their mess, so they have knowledge to draw upon.

 

The people that always say you consciously choose everything that happens in your life are full of it.

 

Whatever guys. I'm done.

Edited January 21, 2010 by Non

[Jack Runner]

dude. I know there are people who have been alienated by society. But for different reasons. I know too much. That's different from another person who simply "feels out of place" because everyone is simply unique in their own way. That's not the kind of isolation I'm talking about.

 

That and though there are some people who have known too much, they have been able to put it aside and live, fake lives. For one because they have no remorse, and they trained themselves to be absolutely emotional. And they probably

had a lot of experience growing up, before they got into their mess, so they have knowledge to draw upon.

 

The people that always say you consciously choose everything that happens in your life are full of it.

 

Whatever guys. I'm done.

 

If that's what you feel dude, then enjoy your path. I could give you a laundry list of fucked up shit that's happens in my life that has allowed me to shape my own existence, but you feel that anyone that can decide what experience's do to their life's are full of it. Tell that to people who's had their entire country torn down around them, and they still rebuild themselves, and their family's. Tell that to people that fall victim to countless misfortunes daily and still have the strength to keep persistence.

 

We always have the choice to decide how experience's effect us, and how those experience's either strengthen or weaken our resolve. That's what I mean by "choosing your reality".

 

To those people who say it is "hopeless" find that it is, to those who say to themselves that "I can do it, and I wont fall" don't.

 

How can you expect anyone to be empathic to your situation, when you yourself cant see empathy in yourself, let alone others.

 

For you to even begin to condemn someone to living a fake life based off of what they want to see happen in their reality doesn't make your case any stronger or weaker. Stop looking at how other people live, and live how you want to. Shit falls into peoples lap all the time without warning, and they either make it, or they don't.

 

The only difference is there are those who give up, and let shit happen, and there are those who fight to change whats happening to them. Which one are you?

[Guest paul walter]

yeah.. I have a problem with some homeopathy tho. To see a homeopathic doc is expensive here... and I live with my father, so he wouldn't approve of seeing some "fake doctor to solve a problem I should see a psychiatrist for or something".

 

That and many of the formulas aren't vegan.

 

But I will see if I can perhaps find a cheap one?

 

I did try some , ignatia and it did help tho. or some other one I tried that was for calming the nerves. I didn't think it would work, because how could such and EXTREME dilution such that "not one molecule of active components remain", as some TV documentaries have stated. But I took the whole bottle and I did notice relaxation. So I thought, ok there is something in these things...

 

Non, I missed this post so am replying to it now. The expense of seeing a homeopath is usually a one-off when you pay the larger fee for the first consult.--all consults after that are usually something like half the price of the initial fee. That's how it is in my country anyway. Yeah, Ignatia is great stuff, but you DON"T drink the whole bottle LOL!! It's extremely different to all medications in that you need to get your mind around taking LESS of the remedy and often in high dilutions. So, yes it is pardigm shifting for most people. As with acupuncture and 'energy' work a high proportion of those practicing homeopathy came to it through being profoundly 'cured' of something and the resulting shift in awareness about how the world/universe really works (quantum physics, tao and all that). The whole scientist/skeptics argument against homeopathy is a total conspiracy (both a social one and in terms of 'rational' personal response)so it has a good pedigree. A good book detailing its most famous instance of contemporary suppression is 'The memory of water'by Michel Schiff which details how 'science' goes on a witch-hunt when it is threatened with new ideas. The book is about the famous experiments in the 80's by French scientist Jacques Benveniste who had no affiliation with homeopathy when he started his work but got 'converted'. Most of the homeopathic formulas are vegan (from plant and mineral sources) ,though if it means anything usually when animal derived remedies are made they are VERY careful with the animal and certainly do not kill it (they only need tiny amounts of the original substance). Homeopathy is so crazy-- there is a group in England called The Homeopathic Guild who experiment with dilutions of various substances on themselves to see what efficacy they have--they even got a piece of the Berlin Wall and diluted it and found it had an effect on the human organism in a way that mirrored the effects that the Wall had on the consciousness on the people who lived with it, except that it CURED the feelings that such entrapment entails ( the 'like cures like' principle). This means consciousness is implanted in everything, that things absorb human thought patterns. So lets all be careful of what we think from now on. Paul.

[Guest paul walter]

I have to give you credit for your perseverence and single-mindedness. You've managed to ignore virtually every piece of sensible advice offered, while maintaining your conviction that all your problems would be healed if women would just stop treating you unfairly and let you fuck them on a regular basis. Oh, how we pity you so!! Honest, we feel so sorry for your plight. You must be the first human male ever to suffer such alienation. And you're right!! Women truly are to blame for everything. Check the Book of Genesis.

 

I think you're conducting an experiment to see how much sympathy you can suck out of well-intentioned people. How's the experiment going? Is it for a psych class or soc?

 

Blasto, you are also posturing with your macho disregard. You know what the problem is here and you know it takes time to talk someone down from a ledge, especially when they've nailed themselves to it. Non is opening up on this thread, which is all this thread is about. He knows his problems and is learning to see himself in perspective by others offering input. He retreats a little everytime you guys post something you just can't keep to yourselves. Paul.