Marijuana and the tao?

[Will@Peace]

I was just curious on how marijuana can impact ones spirtual progression?

I smoke on a daily basis--mainly for its curing properties, it helps me to focus, alleviates anxiety/depression, and I use it for aiding in my meditative practices. I find smoking to much of it does cause anxiety/distracts from my focus. So I can't smoke to much of it for healing effects.

 

 

What are your guys thoughts?

What does the tao say?

I'm not addicted to the substance-nor have I even been addicted to any substance before. And I don't abuse the plant by intaking to much. I don't need to smoke everyday either.

[Guest paul walter]

I was just curious on how marijuana can impact ones spirtual progression?

I smoke on a daily basis--mainly for its curing properties, it helps me to focus, alleviates anxiety/depression, and I use it for aiding in my meditative practices. I find smoking to much of it does cause anxiety/distracts from my focus. So I can't smoke to much of it for healing effects.

What are your guys thoughts?

What does the tao say?

I'm not addicted to the substance-nor have I even been addicted to any substance before. And I don't abuse the plant by intaking to much. I don't need to smoke everyday either.

"the Tao says": whatever white man believes is true, is true.

[fiveelementtao]

According to TheEternalStudent, the Traditional Chinese Medicine perspective on marijuana use and energy cultivation is...

"Marijuana flares the ming men fire out of its normal position.

The Ming Men fire resides behind and around your kidneys.

It is a false sense of awareness because the extra heat rises up the Du channel and gets into your head.

While there, it ups the amount of seratonin you produce, momentarily.

After long term use, you slowly drain the good feeling hormones from your brain and adrenals. Eventually leads to insomnia and depression without the drug. The addiction comes from the lack of stimulation on the adrenals, not receptors in your brain.

 

In terms of spiritual growth, it can give you a glimpse though the keyhole. That's all.

But it leaves you open and vulnerable because while the ming men fire is in your head, its not powering your wei chi, your defensive energy. Leaves you open to energetic, emotional, psychic and pathogenic influences.

 

The ultimate goal is to be able to alter your own hormone system without any external influence.

So I am capable of getting "high" by tweaking my own pituitary and pineal glands. Its way cheaper than relying on external sources, energetically and monetarily."

 

This subject has been thoroughly discussed many times. I would type in Marijuana into the Tao Bums search option...

 

But just out of curiosity... You say you smoke everyday, but you are not addicted and don't need to smoke everyday... You do understand that sounds somewhat incongruous and exactly like something an addicted person in denial might say, right? Maybe try quitting pot altogether for 6 months and see if you really can stop and don't need it...

Some avid pot smokers on here will tell you differently but all recognized Tao teachers and masters discourage Pot smoking to anyone serious about Tao cultivation or spiritual progress...

Edited January 18, 2010 by fiveelementtao

[Encephalon]

According to TheEternalStudent, the Traditional Chinese Medicine perspective on marijuana use and energy cultivation is...

"Marijuana flares the ming men fire out of its normal position.

The Ming Men fire resides behind and around your kidneys.

It is a false sense of awareness because the extra heat rises up the Du channel and gets into your head.

While there, it ups the amount of seratonin you produce, momentarily.

After long term use, you slowly drain the good feeling hormones from your brain and adrenals. Eventually leads to insomnia and depression without the drug. The addiction comes from the lack of stimulation on the adrenals, not receptors in your brain.

 

In terms of spiritual growth, it can give you a glimpse though the keyhole. That's all.

But it leaves you open and vulnerable because while the ming men fire is in your head, its not powering your wei chi, your defensive energy. Leaves you open to energetic, emotional, psychic and pathogenic influences.

 

The ultimate goal is to be able to alter your own hormone system without any external influence.

So I am capable of getting "high" by tweaking my own pituitary and pineal glands. Its way cheaper than relying on external sources, energetically and monetarily."

 

This subject has been thoroughly discussed many times. I would type in Marijuana into the Tao Bums search option...

 

But just out of curiosity... You say you smoke everyday, but you are not addicted and don't need to smoke everyday... You do understand that sounds somewhat incongruous and exactly like something an addicted person in denial might say, right? Maybe try quitting pot altogether for 6 months and see if you really can stop and don't need it...

Some avid pot smokers on here will tell you differently but all recognized Tao teachers and masters discourage Pot smoking to anyone serious about Tao cultivation or spiritual progress...

 

 

I remember coming in here last spring with similar questions. Got a lot of very sound advice, Eternal Student's feedback figuring most prominently. There's no question that this herb can relax you, which in turn contributes to a mind/muscle connection, which furthers an ultimate union of body and mind. But the stuff is unwieldy if you use it everyday, and you will soon lose the ability to feel any energy without it.

 

For Tao-mined folks who positively, absolutely cannot let it go completely, take Dr. Andrew Weil's advice and smoke it once a week, say, on a Saturday night. Immerse yourself in the reverie of stretching and deep relaxation, take notes, experience breakthroughs with you screenplay. And then hang it up til next Saturday night. You'll get the benefit of the inspirational effects, without steeping in the delusional element that the herb invariably introduces when ingested chronically.

 

PS - I'm going to give this a try and see if my adrenals can be revitalized.

http://www.discount-vitamins-herbs.net/Adrenal-cleanse.htm

Edited January 18, 2010 by Blasto

[Sunya]

^ Everything Mike said is true. I know from experience.. I was a chronic smoker.. and tried to meditate... I actually thought I was progressing! Hah! All that progress was gone once I quit, lol. Also, Mike forgot to mention that pot clouds the mind and kills your concentration skills, along with memory. But you already know that. Stop smoking if you want to actually make progress. I used to smoke to kill depressing/anxious feelings too... but the more I smoked the worse I got without pot. So what I did was: whenever I felt those feelings I'd just sit and breath.. and low and behold they were gone! Marijuana is like training wheels, you gotta learn to ride the bike yourself.

[glooper23]

Marijuana is like training wheels, you gotta learn to ride the bike yourself.

 

Bingo.

[Will@Peace]

Hey guys.

Sorry for my late response.

I actually didn't smoke for a long time until recently.

I only smoke when all priority's are out of the way. I'm a college student-I don't attend my classes under the influence of weed-and I get good grades.

I'm very focused and concentrate hard on my studies.

I only use the substance when everything is out of the way and I can make room for it-it doesn't take priority-and I'm in complete control of it.

 

I have gone days without smoking with no side effects/negative "withdrawl" symptoms.

Eventually I will most likely drop it all together or save it for weekends etc.

 

 

 

Side topic---how does one power their defensive energy? (wei-chi) If marijuana builds up ming fire-can it still be used for spirtual cultivation assistance? If it was to be used how would it be used without leaving other areas vulnerable? Moderation?

[fiveelementtao]

Denial is a bitch. Denial of denial is the first sign of denial...

Nothing personal but nothing you've said indicates that you have the power of choice over weed. In fact, it indicates the opposite to me. It's great that you wait until your work is finished and that you can go "days" without it. What would indicate that you had real power of choice is if you could go six months without it. Do that and if you are successful, then maybe you aren't addicted...

Addiction is a funny thing. I used to work as a chemical dependency counselor in a treatment facility and I have heard it all. I will share with you a story about a guy who was definitely not addicted.

He came to me one day and said, "I think I may be an alcoholic. I want to go to one of those A.A. meetings." "How do you know you're an alcoholic?" I asked... "Because I have been drinking alot lately to overcome the sadness of my breakup." "You're not an alcoholic." I said... "How do you know?" he asked. "Because alcoholics spend a huge amount of time and energy explaining how they aren't alcoholics and they can quit anytime they like. If you are wondering whether or not you are an alcoholic from a few weeks of binge drinking and have no resistance to the idea of being addicted... You're not."

 

I have gone days without smoking with no side effects/negative "withdrawal" symptoms.

that is not enough time to determine whether or not you are having withdrawals... The beginning stages of withdrawals is simply the desire to smoke. If you are consistently feeling the desire to smoke weed every few days, that is a sign of addiction. The proof that you have the desire to smoke every few days is that you smoke every few days... I suspect it is a little more frequent than a few days... Most likely, those intervals between days will shorten until it is every day...

Let me know how you feel after six months without ANY weed...

 

Side topic---how does one power their defensive energy? (wei-chi)

Well, one way is to not do things that severely deplete their wei chi...

If marijuana builds up ming fire-can it still be used for spirtual cultivation assistance?

To quote the previous quote... "in terms of spiritual growth, it can give you a glimpse though the keyhole. That's all." So, the ultimate answer is no.

 

If it was to be used how would it be used without leaving other areas vulnerable? Moderation?

what I hear you saying is... "I know weed is bad for me but I am going to do it anyway, is there any way to make it good for me?" Sounds like you are searching for justification... If you're going to do it, do it with your eyes wide open knowing the consequences don't B.S. yourself... I would have more respect for your post if you simply said, "Well, I know it's bad for me and my cultivation, but I like it too much to stop, so I'm going to keep doing it." If you said that, I would stay silent and respect your clarity of choice. It's hard for me to stand by and watch someone look for justification to BS themselves....

 

Hey guys.

Sorry for my late response.

I actually didn't smoke for a long time until recently.

I only smoke when all priority's are out of the way. I'm a college student-I don't attend my classes under the influence of weed-and I get good grades.

I'm very focused and concentrate hard on my studies.

I only use the substance when everything is out of the way and I can make room for it-it doesn't take priority-and I'm in complete control of it.

 

I have gone days without smoking with no side effects/negative "withdrawl" symptoms.

Eventually I will most likely drop it all together or save it for weekends etc.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 20, 2010 by fiveelementtao

[suninmyeyes]

STOP all drugs! our minds and bodies are so poisoned anyway.

get high on being TRUTHFUL and spread your light

[宁]

what I hear you saying is... "I know weed is bad for me but I am going to do it anyway, is there any way to make it good for me?"

 

Yes, this is what hear too

I followed your way of thinking over a few threads, Will@Peace.

Your mind is under some kind of influence, and now i know why... It's sad.

[glooper23]

Yes, this is what hear too

I followed your way of thinking over a few threads, Will@Peace.

Your mind is under some kind of influence, and now i know why... It's sad.

 

Perhaps it's great that he's going through the process of figuring out what works for him?

[Mal]

I only use the substance when everything is out of the way and I can make room for it-it doesn't take priority-and I'm in complete control of it.

 

I believe that recreational use is certainly possible, I much prefer weed over alcohol.

 

But I wouldn't try and link it with meditation or spiritual progress. It can be an enjoyable experience to do things like that under the influence but I wouldn't call it practicing.

 

After about 3 years I also noticed my lung capacity decreasing and an evolving smokers cough. I recommend investing in a good vaporiser if this is happening to you. Usage will also taper off naturally over time IMHO.

[宁]

Perhaps it's great that he's going through the process of figuring out what works for him?

It's alot more difficult for a consummer to figure a way out. He has to quit first, and then think about how to fix the situation, paradoxically.

Why? Well, here we enter the discussion about the entities that are associated with usage of toxics... Not my specialty.

[Capital]

As someone who has smoked weed quite often for well over a year now, nearly every day and often many times a day, I'm going to go 'the distance'.

 

I'm stopping for at least the six months that Fiveelementtao speaks of. When those six months are over, I may decide to start smoking again every once in a while, or I may not. I'll tell you all what happened, what I felt, and how it changed my meditation.

 

Sound good?

 

EDIT: Btw, I'm doing this because I'm planning to start doing Ya Mu's system daily, and I feel that doing so while often times intoxicated by a Psychoactive drug will be doing both him and I a disservice.

Edited January 21, 2010 by Capital

[King Kabalabhati]

In my experience, daily qigong will automatically lessen the desire to smoke or otherwise ingest marijuana. Example: this morning I felt like toking, but instead practiced Spring Forest Qigong. After that I no longer felt like toking. I felt too good

[fiveelementtao]

Hi Capital...

If it becomes really difficult, don't hesitate to seek out 12 step meetings like A. A. or N.A. or M.A. There is no shame in admitting that we need help. I certainly did. I was not able to quit alone... Ya Mu is a great teacher... good luck to you...

 

As someone who has smoked weed quite often for well over a year now, nearly every day and often many times a day, I'm going to go 'the distance'.

 

I'm stopping for at least the six months that Fiveelementtao speaks of. When those six months are over, I may decide to start smoking again every once in a while, or I may not. I'll tell you all what happened, what I felt, and how it changed my meditation.

 

Sound good?

 

EDIT: Btw, I'm doing this because I'm planning to start doing Ya Mu's system daily, and I feel that doing so while often times intoxicated by a Psychoactive drug will be doing both him and I a disservice.

[Capital]

Hi Capital...

If it becomes really difficult, don't hesitate to seek out 12 step meetings like A. A. or N.A. or M.A. There is no shame in admitting that we need help. I certainly did. I was not able to quit alone... Ya Mu is a great teacher... good luck to you...

 

Thank you for the kind words.

[Jack Runner]

Hi Capital...

If it becomes really difficult, don't hesitate to seek out 12 step meetings like A. A. or N.A. or M.A. There is no shame in admitting that we need help. I certainly did. I was not able to quit alone... Ya Mu is a great teacher... good luck to you...

 

It took this thread for me to stop smoking, I'm on a 100 days cleanse of weed and masturbation (lol) to see the difference in my general make up.

 

After about 4 days now of no herb, my dreams have come back more vivid then ever. So that alone lets me know I can do it, and why I should keep it up.

 

A substance only has as much power over you as you allow it to. (That's my personal belief) But I understand that, that is not the case for some, and they do need a lil extra will power "shared from another" to help them through.

[fiveelementtao]

Power to you, my friend, Jack... I agree with your viewpoint. We can choose where we give our power or not. That isn't to say that it is always easy. I have quit some pretty powerful substances in my day, but quitting cigarettes was the worst.. it was more difficult than booze, pills, weed, coke... So, I do not wish to minimize anyone's struggle.

 

I would like to be clear about this. Addiction is NOT a sign of weakness. The reason why quitting these substances is so difficult is because by doing them, we set up an ever increasing chemical cycle which creates dependence on many levels. What many of these substances do is flood our bodies with chemicals that are either identical to chemicals released naturally by our glands or they mimic them. When these substances enter our blood stream our bodies detect their presence and tell the glands in our body to STOP producing them because it is interpreted as an overload. So, that is one reason we become dependent. These are chemicals we need and without them we are out of balance. So, the first part of quitting is the hardest because our glands have to start not from zero but from less than zero... Quitting a substance can be extremely difficult for this reason. Not only do we have to struggle with the detox and any mental or emotional withdrawals, but, our glands have to start back up again and begin producing these chemicals naturally. So, it can be extremely challenging. So, I do not recommend minimizing the struggle. Because of the stigma of dependence being labeled as weakness people naturally want to show that they can do it no problem... It is not that simple. It is OK to be dependent. What matters is on what we are dependent. I am completely addicted to my practice and I totally dependent on the energy I get from the universe. If that makes me weak, so be it... But I want to be dependent on something that feeds me, not something that drains me over time...

 

The other aspect of why so many spiritual seekers use substances is because these substances produce the same chemicals that are produced during energy cultivation. So, it is no surprise to me that people who use substances also are on this forum. It does not indicate to me they are weak, it indicates that they are called to a spiritual lifestyle. The good news is that we can still enjoy similar effects that substances give us, but IME, when they are produced naturally through regular cultivation, it is much, much better and without any negative physical side effects. It does take longer but it is well worth it... I want to be clear about something else... I LOVE getting high. That is one main reason I practice Tao. It gets me really stoned... I have been practicing my art for almost 20 years, and I can tell you that the high I get from my practices now is WAAAAAAY better and more powerful than any substance I used. So, please know that if I am being a hard-ass about this, it is not because I judge anyone for wanting to get high, but because I want people to experience the real thing and sometimes one has to be a hard ass to break through the wall of denial... It is not my intention to tell people what to do. If someone wants to get high, that is their right. I just want people who are serious about spiritual cultivation to know that some of us who have been doing this for awhile have learned through experience that using substances will not help in energy cultivation. So, at least people can make an educated choice. Whatever that choice is, is your right. And as long as I am on this forum and someone wants to say that using substances will help you without any negative consequences, I want there to be at least one voice to give an answer from experience...

Blessings and Strength to all,

Mike

[Walker]

I was just curious on how marijuana can impact ones spirtual progression?

I smoke on a daily basis--mainly for its curing properties, it helps me to focus, alleviates anxiety/depression, and I use it for aiding in my meditative practices. I find smoking to much of it does cause anxiety/distracts from my focus. So I can't smoke to much of it for healing effects.

 

 

What are your guys thoughts?

What does the tao say?

I'm not addicted to the substance-nor have I even been addicted to any substance before. And I don't abuse the plant by intaking to much. I don't need to smoke everyday either.

 

I don't know enough about spirituality to speak on, "how marijuana can impact one's spiritual progression." However, I've heard a lot of practitioners with decades of experience under their belts in the Buddhist, Daoist, TCM, and IMA worlds comment on this question. Bar only one, all of them stress, stay away from drugs.

 

One teacher trained in Daoism explained that nothing is so disruptive to balance as drugs, and went so far as to tell me not to use any drugs, ever, ever again. To hear this man tell a student what to do is a very rare thing; I've never heard him speak this way, before or since, with any other students or me. Years later I heard him comment on when it is appropriate for a Daoist teacher to tell instead of suggest a student how to behave; only when the teacher senses that the student is in serious danger of destroying his/her own life or the lives of others, and, if I recall correctly, cannot stop himself/herself.

 

The one senior practitioner I've met to support drug use, a rogue Nyingmapa fellow down under who had spent decades in Nepal and India, was sadly very out of his mind. To quash any ideas that I was merely unable to understand his crazy wisdom, consider the following. His main fear in life was that the New Zealand parliament was on the verge of being taken over by a secret Muslim army that would, after usurping control of the country via democratic means, tear their metaphorical masks off and reveal themselves as cogs in the wheel of the mysterious Black Mullah's master plan to enslave and torture all of humanity until the kingdom of Shambhala saves the day, but only after every last human has already been enslaved. These Muslims, it so happens, are also shape-shifting lizards, and all of this, including the entire history of Islam until the present, was predicted and recorded by Padmasambhava. The responsibility of Buddhists, therefore, is to oppose Islam.

 

The above guy used a lot more than marijuana, but I offer this small illustration of one of his endless quirks to illustrate what kind of man in the position of spiritual teacher I have met condones drug use.

 

I used a lot of marijuana off-and-on from the ages of 13 to 21, including during a couple of periods on a daily basis. I did not think I was addicted, until my then-heavily-damaged mental and emotional health led me to have an ever growing number of bad trips. Eventually these became the majority of my highs, and they were deeply terrifying, tormenting experiences. And yet it took me months and months and months to truly kick the habit! Many of my friends from those days who had nothing but pleasant, mellow highs are still deeply glued to the life. I cannot speak about how marijuana affects spiritual development on any esoteric level, but being stuck in endless doldrums, unwilling and effectively unable to even honestly assess one's own position, clearly will have an effect on the spirit.

 

It may be good to keep in mind that as a college student, if you are in the average college age bracket, you are still very much in a developmental period in your life, which will continue until you are 25 or so. What you are doing now can take deep root in your body. After my highs became problematic, one symptom was a feeling of intense cold, sometimes so strong that I would have to bury myself in quilts, literally shivering, even in warm weather. Every Chinese doctor I meet is always quick to tell me that cold is deeply rooted in my body, and although I cannot prove it one way or the other, I would not be surprised if this has something to do with my previous drug use. At the end of the day, if you keep enjoying too many highs, you may find yourself drinking a lot of bitter, expensive herbs to clean up the effects of that other herb. Just something to consider.