can females lose energy during a climax?

[gendao]

I can flex my PC muscles indefinitely without orgasming if I am not thinking of someone. It gets me aroused, but I do not orgasm.

 

I didn't realize that about myself. I had to delay the experiment because I was fighting off a cold.

Do you still feel that you gain energy, though?

 

Basically, I'm trying to isolate specifically what it is that makes you feel like you gain energy. You don't require a man or toy, so the question now is if you require an orgasm too? And if not - then it appears to result solely from PC flexing? (And I wonder if that would work for guys too?)

 

 

 

PS - I thought sahajoli was a form of male SKF, tho?

Edited January 26, 2010 by vortex

[JustARandomPanda]

Yes, that is what I do. Except he seems to say not to orgasm. I do orgasm.

 

The reason he says that is that the woman not orgasming is for one reason only - gaining Enlightenment. If you don't care about attaining Enlightenment and just only want to awaken chakras then it doesn't matter if you don't orgasm or not. Although I did gather that trying to extend the time one flexes before orgasming is how those chakras are awakened in the first place. In other words...the instructions reminded me of how similar they are in telling men to try to hold off for as long as possible orgasming. Go long enough and enough "steam" is built up that it must seek an outlet. Since the usual path is denied it begins it's ascent to the Heart and Ajna chakras (in women...haven't read far enough in the book to see if it does the same with men).

 

Oh...get this...one of the things he says the uniting of Mooladhara energy with Ajna creates is....ENTITIES! And it indicates there are still blockages because the entity or entities created are expressions of Mooladhara's ancient blood karmas (or...as he said might be thought of in modern terms...energy patterns finally expressed from one's DNA). If this happens it still indicates blockages that have yet to be worked out. Again this only matters to women who desire to work for Enlightenment. If you don't give a hoot about that goal then don't bother with whether there are blocks or not.

 

 

Do you still feel that you gain energy, though?

 

Basically, I'm trying to isolate specifically what it is that makes you feel like you gain energy. You don't require a man or toy, so the question now is if you require an orgasm too? And if not - then it appears to result solely from PC flexing? (And I wonder if that would work for guys too?)

 

 

 

PS - I thought sahajoli was a form of male SKF, tho?

 

 

According to Swami Saraswati flexing mooladhara is what generates the sex energy. Orgasming is not required. In fact...to awaken the other chakras the woman tries to go longer and longer before doing so. And of course...if she wishes to attain Enlightenment ideally she would not submit to an orgasm at all...thus forcing the sex energy to unite with her crown chakra and exploding into Awakened Consciousness. However...the results will be fleeting if she doesn't work at opening the MCO along with all the other chakras.

 

He was clear about this tantric difference.

 

In men the Mooladhara bindu point is the perineum.

 

In women the Mooladhara bindu point is just behind the cervix.

 

And sahajoli is for both men and women. It's just that the bindu point focused on is anatomically different.

[witch]

Oh...get this...one of the things he says the uniting of Mooladhara energy with Ajna creates is....ENTITIES! And it indicates there are still blockages because the entity or entities created are expressions of Mooladhara's ancient blood karmas (or...as he said might be thought of in modern terms...energy patterns finally expressed from one's DNA). If this happens it still indicates blockages that have yet to be worked out. Again this only matters to women who desire to work for Enlightenment. If you don't give a hoot about that goal then don't bother with whether there are blocks or not.

 

Well now THAT explains a lot!

[JustARandomPanda]

Just read something else the Swami said. He says it is much easier for women to open their third eye than for men (thus perhaps lending some credence to the idea that women are more naturally intuitive than men since Ajna is the chakra associated with intuition).

 

Also the reason for the red dot between the eyes is that it provides a direct physical stimulation connection to Ajna. Certain substances placed there will continually stimulate the pineal gland and thus speed awakening Ajna. However...he says the vast majority of modern-day Indians have forgotten the real reason for this practice and now do it for habitual cultural reasons.

[witch]

They also do it too low on the forehead.

 

By the way, I have had a crown chakra outpouring of sexual energy. Does that mean, according to his definition, that I have reached enlightenment?

[gendao]

Just read something else the Swami said. He says it is much easier for women to open their third eye than for men (thus perhaps lending some credence to the idea that women are more naturally intuitive than men since Ajna is the chakra associated with intuition).

Wow, some very, very interesting info there! Would have been very useful in some older debates...

 

So, I wonder how or why uniting the 1st (root) chakra with the 6th (3rd eye) chakra creates entities? Very fascinating connection though - which is why real traditional knowledge can still be so valuable. Time-tested ancient wisdom can help connect dots and add verification for us less-experienced n00bs today.

 

And I also wonder if PC pumping really generates energy from scratch...or perhaps just transmutes jing into qi?

 

Anyhow, wudangquan has noted before that in order to break through your current paradigm, you must keep increasing the pressure (and minimize leakage to do so). Until at some point, the system will either break down from that higher pressure (FAIL)...or finally push you out of the box to the next level (SUCCESS!).

Edited January 26, 2010 by vortex

[JustARandomPanda]

They also do it too low on the forehead.

 

By the way, I have had a crown chakra outpouring of sexual energy. Does that mean, according to his definition, that I have reached enlightenment?

 

Sadly no. There are a whole host of other conditions that one needs to do in order for one to reach it.

 

And Get this!

 

He mentions there are potentially-scary Ultra-Fast methods to reach that state (he described some methods similar to Kunlun!) and much slower but much safer methods of getting there. Very few modern day people - in his opinion - have the resources to draw upon to go the Ultra-fast route even with a guru to turn to. If they have success with this method he says that means their karma is such that they would've had success no matter what route taken.

 

Modern-day people he thinks should stick with slower, safer methods and be under the supervision of a guru. There are just too many factors in modern society that sabotage one's efforts. And it can be worse off for people in Western Societies because we don't have a general culture that supports or understands the psychology or methodologies of someone going through periods of energy-upheaval and purging to attain Enlightenment.

[rain]

there has been SO much talk and thinking about loosing and how not to loose energy at The Taobum Forum.

Ok. The old ones said it was so.

tao says?

who says..?

doc drew you?

who?

 

lessay its like loosing some blood.

what happens when you donate some blood.

 

do you loose it?

what happens in your body?

 

just TRY to think different just ONCE in a while. please

Edited January 26, 2010 by rain

[witch]

What happens when I donate some blood is I feel like hell until my body makes new blood. Also faint a lot. That's why I don't give blood anymore, low blood pressure.

 

I'm being a moron. I had tea this morning--I couldn't have a spontaneous orgasm if Stephen Colbert were standing in front of me naked. So ignore what I said about the flexing, I can't draw conclusions from my current state--it tamps down the sexual energy.

 

When I had the crown chakra orgasm, it felt like this:

 

 

except it only lasted for about twenty minutes as far as I could tell. I had aftereffects for several months afterward, including for a couple weeks an inability to have orgasms at all, if I'm remembering correctly.

[JustARandomPanda]

I'm being a moron. I had tea this morning--I couldn't have a spontaneous orgasm if Stephen Colbert were standing in front of me naked. So ignore what I said about the flexing, I can't draw conclusions from my current state--it tamps down the sexual energy.

 

Well Witch he wrote the book first for Indians and only later was it translated. I'm guessing perhaps Indians have a more natural diet than the overly-processed, chemical-laden, Omega 3-stripped diet the typical American has.

 

So it may be your book contributes something truly and genuinely new to Tantric and energy-practices knowledge. that is...what happens when a society's cultural diet is no longer primarily natural-based. Just one more "blockage" (dietary) to try to overcome perhaps on the road to Enlightenment (or at the very least in increasing one's internal chi).

[ShaktiMama]

I was just wondering.. because I've read that females don't lose energy, or at least as much as men do when they climax and that this puts her at an advantage over the male.

 

I've also heard that some women can ejaculate, so could she lose as much energy as a male during this ejaculation, or at least, somewhat more than the non-ejaculatory orgasms?

 

Perhaps she can lose as much energy if she just has more and more and more sex? Would it perhaps equal the amount of male energy loss if we also take into account menstruation?

 

I've just always wondered this...

 

Especially as regards if men masturbate, and tend to be weaker because they do it alone, ie without a partner to perhaps make up for some of that energy loss, or at least to understand. Why? Well, if women aren't aware and men lose energy, doesn't that put the men at risk of being judged as weak around or in close proximity of ejaculation periods?

 

Perhaps women also lose as much energy but it's just so drawn out and over a longer period of time, that it's just not as noticeable? Well, anyways, women are much more allowed to be weak, than men. And they dont become more "masculine" whenever they do have orgasms, or menstruate, just as men might become more 'feminine' or whatever whenever they ejaculate.

 

Perhaps, during menstruation, that all changes?

 

I've also read that, if a woman can do the 6th tibetan rite, the right way, over time, she can actually stop the menstruation process, but that might mean that she also transmutes her sexual energy?

 

I dunno whatever. But I do know women have the tendency to judge a man, and if most men masturbate, and don't make up for it, then there's a lot of weak and effeminate men as least around the time they ejaculate. But maybe they can "make up" for it by seeming "stronger". hah... or eh.. whatever. Perhaps even aggressive. And men do tend to be dominant and aggressive at times, solely for the woman's opinion, or for territory because they are so damned stressed that they cannot come up with any better way to live or deal with 'problems' than to start wars and kill each other, etc.

 

And so all these wars, and weaknesses. All because of the lack of sexual mastery. And they think they know what "masculinity" is, when most of the time it's simply a made up concept, of their own minds. And women fall for it.

 

Regards

 

 

I will respond to your original question of females losing energy during a climax.

 

Speaking as a female whose kundalini is fully awake and developed, I will say no. In fact, it becomes even more energizing to climax with a developed kundalini awakened male. He does not lose energy either. That is because we know how to draw energy from the heaven and earth into the orgasm and share with each other. We can also share the orgasmic energy with other people in the room and with the planet.

 

Ejaculation and orgasm/climax are not related at that level. These are the higher tantra practices of which sexual practice is a small part.

 

Just speaking from personal experience.

[witch]

whoops, was responding to SereneBlue

 

Yes and no. On the one hand, the Indian diet would be a decent source of omega-3 fatty acids if there was ghee in it--the Indian cows eat grass so their milk is high in omega-3s. On the other hand, they eat a lot of starchy food, and starches, particularly without oils or proteins, can interfere with this effect.

 

Were there dietary recommendations for women? I would say, to get the best effect--complete avoidance of tea, and eat a diet high in ghee and other animal fats, then a fast for a day or so before trying, with maybe breaking the fast with pure ghee, or maybe mixed with something like honey to make it palatable. Did he say anything like that?

Edited January 26, 2010 by witch

[JustARandomPanda]

Were there dietary recommendations for women? I would say, to get the best effect--complete avoidance of tea, and eat a diet high in ghee and other animal fats, then a fast for a day or so before trying, with maybe breaking the fast with pure ghee, or maybe mixed with something like honey to make it palatable. Did he say anything like that?

 

There are chapters on diet but I haven't gotten to that point in the book yet. From flipping through it there appear to be Ayurvedic recommendations based on one's type and goals. But he does appear to say that diet can help or hinder.

[Guest sykkelpump]

I wanted to share something I've just learned recently. I think I now understand why Witch's 3rd Eye is open as is her Heart Chakra.

 

It appears she independently re-discovered an ancient Yogic Tantric technique for women that is specifically designed to do exactly that - open the 3rd Eye and Heart Chakras.

 

I am currently reading the book Kundalini Tantra by Swami Satyanada Saraswati. In it he describes some women-only tantric techniques for opening various chakras.

 

One of them is flexing Mooladhara chakra - the sex chakra. Or to put it in modern terms - kegels + awareness. If a woman does this exercise often enough and long enough it WILL (not just maybe but *will*) open those chakras.

 

On p. 105 he states....

 

 

 

In another chapter he goes into detail how this practice - flexing mooladhara chakra is one of the easiest ways for women to open their third eye. It can also open their heart chakra.

you misunderstand his point.what he says is meditation on root chakra will build energy there.that energy will help open the oters chakras.But first you need to build energy there,then circulate.you need something to circulate.and you need a one point concentration on this spot to succed.that means so much concentration on that spot that thoughts slow way down or preferebly stops.this produces energy.muscular exercises helps circulating after meditation

[JustARandomPanda]

you misunderstand his point.what he says is meditation on root chakra will build energy there.that energy will help open the oters chakras.But first you need to build energy there,then circulate.you need something to circulate.and you need a one point concentration on this spot to succed.that means so much concentration on that spot that thoughts slow way down or preferebly stops.this produces energy.muscular exercises helps circulating after meditation

 

I didn't get it wrong at all.

 

Swami Saraswati says often times people get it backwards - they attempt to still the mind before they've evened out their energy. He specifically mentioned to expect and ignore the turbulence of one's mind. Often times our energy is too turbulent and scattered and attempts at meditation will fail. He has an entire chapter discussing exactly this point. People in modern societies are particularly prone to this because so much of our society is geared to intellectualization of everything. By the time people graduate from High School most have greatly over-developed higher chakras at the expense of the lower ones. This creates societies of a lot of unbalanced, energetically-taxed people.

 

 

He mentions that since Meditation fails for many people then the obvious route is to go with the body first. The mind will be dragged along. it's not unlike the philosophy of KAP and certain other Yogic or Qi Gong practices. Do the exercises and don't worry about the monkey mind. The body's energy will steady and only THEN will many people finally see success with meditation.

 

 

I'll post directly some of his commentaries on exactly this point later so one can see for themselves how Witch attained her abilities without worrying about whether her mind or thoughts were "slow" enough or "absent" at all.

 

 

p.s. He did say that Awakened Kundalini and Enlightenment are two different things. The former is just a first step on the road to the latter.

[Guest sykkelpump]

I didn't get it wrong at all.

 

Swami Saraswati says often times people get it backwards - they attempt to still the mind before they've evened out their energy. He specifically mentioned to expect and ignore the turbulence of one's mind. Often times our energy is too turbulent and scattered and attempts at meditation will fail. He has an entire chapter discussing exactly this point. People in modern societies are particularly prone to this because so much of our society is geared to intellectualization of everything. By the time people graduate from High School most have greatly over-developed higher chakras at the expense of the lower ones. This creates societies of a lot of unbalanced, energetically-taxed people.

 

 

He mentions that since Meditation fails for many people then the obvious route is to go with the body first. The mind will be dragged along. it's not unlike the philosophy of KAP and certain other Yogic or Qi Gong practices. Do the exercises and don't worry about the monkey mind. The body's energy will steady and only THEN will many people finally see success with meditation.

 

 

I'll post directly some of his commentaries on exactly this point later so one can see for themselves how Witch attained her abilities without worrying about whether her mind or thoughts were "slow" enough or "absent" at all.

ok,yes it looks like i did the mistake.I based it on the quote you had.

But I personally belive that meditation is basic(need something to circulate before other exercises).if concentration doesnt work,watching the mind and let go of thoughts as they arrive might work.But you must continue whatever works for you

[witch]

For the record, and I don't this think will work for men at all, I didn't have monkey mind during this period. My high dopamine gives off a faint stoned feeling most of the time, my thoughts are comically mellow. I'm able to sit and just stare off into space, literally thinking of nothing. When I was mentally focused it was on what was mentioned in another thread here, the lower mind. Three things mostly--penis, the man I was obsessed with, and having sex--and various combinations of those three things. That's what got the energy to rise.

[rain]

What happens when I donate some blood is I feel like hell until my body makes new blood. Also faint a lot. That's why I don't give blood anymore, low blood pressure.

 

I'm being a moron. I had tea this morning--I couldn't have a spontaneous orgasm if Stephen Colbert were standing in front of me naked. So ignore what I said about the flexing, I can't draw conclusions from my current state--it tamps down the sexual energy.

 

When I had the crown chakra orgasm, it felt like this:

 

 

except it only lasted for about twenty minutes as far as I could tell. I had aftereffects for several months afterward, including for a couple weeks an inability to have orgasms at all, if I'm remembering correctly.

 

 

really?

[三江源]

.

Edited March 18, 2015 by 三江源

[witch]

Yes rain, I am frequently an ignorant fool. If I knew what I was doing I wouldn't be here to find things out!

 

I did some experiments early this morning after yesterday's caffeine had worn off. I only generate energy when I orgasm, not simply from flexing my PC muscles. Maybe I'm converting my jing to do that or something like that, but it doesn't feel like it. I don't feel depleted from menstruation either. I think women physically lose jing through breastfeeding and of course giving birth.

 

The best stimulation for these types of orgasms is deep eye contact.

[三江源]

.

Edited March 18, 2015 by 三江源

[三江源]

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Edited March 18, 2015 by 三江源

[Non]

Interesting...so basically you feel you "gain energy" when orgasming from either your G-spot or flexing your PC muscles. Even if there is no man ejaculating jing into you. Sooo...where does the energy come from then?

 

 

Anyhow, we have been accultured to view sex as a recreational pasttime - which has distorted our view of the whole biomechanism.

 

So, let's look at it from an evo-psych perspective. The "real" evolutionary point of sex is procreation, point-blank. Whereby lifeforce (jing) from the parents is donated to their offspring (instead of used to further augment their own lives). Now, since the woman carries the offspring (egg/fetus), it would make sense if she retains her own jing - and receives the man's jing as well - only to give both to the developing child. So in reality, it's ultimately the BABY (not even the woman, except by association) that gets all the jing. Whereas if she loses jing during sex, then so would the potential offspring - thus defeating the whole evolutionary purpose of sex.

 

And although we do often now perform sex solely recreationally - that does NOT change the original design function of it. Now maybe there could be SKF loopholes to all this and modern hedonists may want to rationalize otherwise, but I think the whole biological of sex is still to create offspring and supply it with both parents' jing by default. Or at the very least to supply the woman with a boost of jing which would then help supply the fetus through 9 months of pregnancy and beyond (during which the male could possibly already be long-gone).

 

Which may be why spiritual traditions have generally stressed either sublimating lifeforce for your own spiritual development or having sex only for procreation. Otherwise, (males) merely having it for fun is "wasting" jing since it is not being used to enhance yourself or your offspring. They weren't being "prudish," but prudent.

 

Anyhow, the proof is in the pudding. So, we should compare people who have cultivated while celibate for years vs those who didn't, and also observe any differences in ourselves when we do either. Less speculation, more actual experimentation!

 

 

meh.. men should be able to retain their energy for raising the child as well, or work.