masturbation and attractiveness

[Biff]

[Biff]

Just to add.... using this woman as an example....

 

 

Do you think if men are 'selective' towards here it is their own fault? Are we not to have free will? If I want to get a job I need to fit the profile. It's not the companies fault for not hiring me.

[Non]

my god biff.

 

That was so lame.

 

Of course it's not that extreme.

 

That level of direct honesty is wonderful when you really fancy someone: it's a turn on. That level of "direct honesty" from someone you dont fancy isnt 'direct honesty' anymore: it's intrusive boundary crossing. Men who think women are 'soo complicated to seduce' arent getting with women with whom they have chemistry. Between two people who have the chemistry, its EASY.

 

Isn't it a shame though, that this is a double standard. In that, if you dont have chemistry with the woman, she not only rejects you, but she says that you are crossing over some legal boundary or they call you a perv, weirdo or something, and can call it sexual harassment. But someone else does this, with confidence, and not caring whether she'll get offended or not, she's all over him.

 

And it usually has only to do with confidence. One cares not to offend her, the other cares whether he'll offend her or not. Usually the one that doesn't care about offending her will get her simply because of so called "confidence" the other one is lacking. But the one who doesn't have confidence isn't just being unconfident, but also sexually harassing and etc, while the other one is doing the same exact thing, except with confidence, or in an authoritative way.

 

Whatever you mean by chemistry too, whether chemistry is a type of constitutional factor, or it's something 'in the moment' kind of 'special bonding/connection' that occurs.

 

Most people would think it's part of one's constitution and physical make-up of the body, rather than some sort of chemical bonding/connection. But when you think about it, the word chemistry is manipulated all the time with women. So what decides really what is chemistry or not, if chemistry happens just by a short glance at someone you hardly even know?

Edited January 25, 2010 by Non

[suninmyeyes]

there's also no denying the fact that women these days are extremely, and superficially selective. To the point that it's really messed up. And people support this unfairness. But unfairness is justified for woman.

kiss your bitterness goodbye and open the door for new you with big sexy heart . becouse it aint gonna work your way .

you relly do sound as if your thinking is confused.

try volounteering at local womans centre,im not joking ,youll learn so much.

[Non]

I dont have time for volunteering.

[Non]

when women talk about confidence, more than likely they just want to see a Display of confidence.

 

Which is the same thing apes and monkeys or other animals do, ie with the use of displays/fronts.

[witch]

[Biff]

 

Nice, that's a nice firey look in those eyes. I'd let her stick it up my ass if she wanted.

 

 

[witch]

Nice, that's a nice firey look in those eyes. I'd let her stick it up my ass if she wanted.

 

Are you flirting with me? I would say my eyes are more "crazy" than "fiery" but that's just me.

[Birch]

Huh, looks like my posts have been somewhat misconstrued.

 

- I didn't say "marriage is bad" I said I had some pretty screwed up ideas about it. Me, my ideas, not a declaration of truth. I may start a list of such ideas in my private forum with a goal of exorcising them. I'm sure I was influenced by old 50's sitcoms...shudder.

 

- The idea about honesty in what one is looking for: first of all this obviously includes oneself. Why can't (some) men pony up and just admit it a) when all they want is a regular lay without the relationship trappings and/or actually have fallen in love with you? I was thinking about this and I don't have any answers;-) Methinks it's a 3rd chakra issue;-)

 

I don't want readers to imagine I recommend putting it out there online like a laundry list - although I don't care if people do.

 

There's a LOT of lying online.

 

I didn't much like what our PUA friend said. I'm waiting for this to be shown as proof that what he says is true despite myself. Whatever.

 

I liked what Cat said.

 

Witch, cool pic!

[Enishi]

Some of those pictures look photo shopped .

[Non]

 

- The idea about honesty in what one is looking for: first of all this obviously includes oneself. Why can't (some) men pony up and just admit it a) when all they want is a regular lay without the relationship trappings and/or actually have fallen in love with you? I was thinking about this and I don't have any answers;-) Methinks it's a 3rd chakra issue;-)

 

That seems like a belief you want to cling to. Do you use that excuse to justify doing harm?

 

Always, some woman has to bring this up, thinking all men are the same way. They are not. I am one of them. Although an extremely bitter 'ex-nice guy', but I am one of them. And I'll continue to be a good guy, but I can't stop the bitterness of being the good guy that women like to step all over because they think "goodness isn't manly or strong, it's weak and pathetic" etc.

Edited January 26, 2010 by Non

[Birch]

Non, oh dear.

 

I'm not doing anything cruel, nor looking for excuses to do cruel things. What on earth did you get from my post that suggested I was??

 

On purpose, I put the (some) in brackets to indicate that I didn't mean "all".

 

Now I've tried to be clear about my feelings and (limited, obviously) understanding about this topic because I'm interested in it. Yes, from a very personal standpoint. But not just that.

 

I've admitted to more personal shortcomings and weaknesses and wrong perceptions in this thread than I can presently stand ;-)

[Non]

alright. I'm sorry.

[Dainin]

I dont have time for volunteering.

 

You might if you spent less time online feeling sorry for yourself.

 

Some time spent in a VA hospital might give you a different perspective regarding your "problems".

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

 

- The idea about honesty in what one is looking for: first of all this obviously includes oneself. Why can't (some) men pony up and just admit it a) when all they want is a regular lay without the relationship trappings and/or actually have fallen in love with you? I was thinking about this and I don't have any answers;-) Methinks it's a 3rd chakra issue;-)

 

 

There is a simple answer to this Kate, if I went on a date with you and I made it clear I just wanted sex you may be repulsed.... many women would be, there are some women who wouldn't mind at all...but much fewer than I've met.

 

So if the man tried this approach of being totally honest unless he's in a club and both parties are fairly drunk, the lady in question will go elsewhere....unless she thinks she may be able to change his mind and she thinks he is worth the risk.

 

I tried total honesty a few times, total failure.... not in the womans opinion as she could separate the wheat from the chaff, but in my view it was.... as nothing happened! There have been woman who have been totally honest(first)as to what they wanted, ie. only sex... but those always changed their mind after(maybe they had already made up their mind in fact, but just wanted to convince themselves otherwise).

 

Men don't always know if a relationship will be long term or not, sometimes we do.... but very occasionally you can be pleasantly surprised that a woman you thought would perhaps be only temporary turns into someone you really get along with and also deeply love.... but it doesn't happen that often.

 

If all the men in the world were honest to women(I mean totally honest)they would all be at home starting masturbation threads and/or masturbating.... We don't always know until we try.... and in our mind we lost nothing if it doesn't work out, we gained in fact, which can be quite opposite from a females view point. Hence the ongoing issue.

 

In defence of men I will say this, if you were a man for a day and had a penis you would know how very distracting it can be....VERY distracting... and very demanding too I might add. That's not a justification or an excuse, it's just a reason.

 

It is also dependant on how attractive a man is, you can keep the average guy for life, and he may be happy....but throw a lot of temptation his way for a consistent period of time and he will change(he may think he won't.... but a man can only take so much). So.... if you want mr average you can get him and keep him, whether your attracted to him is another matter. The only exception with this I've seen is an older guy... around about 30 plus(30 is low balling, higher is better)simply because he's probably already done it all before and now understands true value within a relationship.

 

If you want a normal guy Kate and marriage you can get him today. There in lies the problem. If you find him attractive, so do other women(temptation), if you find him funny, so do other women(temptation)...and on and on. There must be some exceptions...but they are exceptions.

 

edit: I should make something clear that could be misunderstood.... I consider mr average to be very 'dao' like... and often much happier than the other kind in the long term.

Edited January 26, 2010 by Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that

[Non]

women play a wicked cruel game. I just realized.. that women tell you that to attract women, u must be nice, not mention anything sexual, etc. And they make themselves out to be chaste and shit.=, and they say they expect you to be chaste and shit.

 

That really is a bunch of BS. On the inside, all women care about is whatever makes them horny.

So here I've been, Chemically Masking myself, because in front of women I didn't want to be too sexual, and serious.

 

Turns out women do not want anything serious until after they've fucked a couple times.

 

So I guess, what I gotta do now is not care about anything serious, don't act serious, just act like a PLAYER. Be sexual, all the time. It's kind of hard because I grew up with the mentality being hammered into me that women want a chaste man who can control his desire and focus on things other than sex, be "mature", this and that.

 

But when you get them alone, they are different. So now what you have here is manipulation. Women tell men that you have to be nice, respectful, etc. be serious. Be good to her, etc. All this is often times viewed as weak for a man, and unmasculine. At the same time it does nothing in terms of 'chemistry' ie, lust. What they want is probably what they say, but it's not the complete story. It's also not the deal breaker, far from it. They'd rather have a guy who makes them horny than a good guy.

 

And often times they wont feel horny unless you are sexual with them. Unless you boast and display "strength" or "aggression".

 

Now I have to find a way to stop bein fearful of offending women by being sexual around them. It's kind of hard too when if there isn't some kind of like, confidence she will see it as awkward and label you a freak of society perv, serial rapist or something. And if you're too nice, regardless she'll also see that as a bit unmasculine because you know, all men have to be violent, aggressive and non-assertive. Theyalso can't have feelings, be dicks, and not serious.

So yea.. there u have it.

 

The difference between making her feel like you're her brother and the guy she wants to fuck all night until she has multiple mutual climaxes and then calls that "love".

 

And guys are the ones who are supposed to be known for being lustful...

Edited January 26, 2010 by Non

[Non]

There is a simple answer to this Kate, if I went on a date with you and I made it clear I just wanted sex you may be repulsed.... many women would be, there are some women who wouldn't mind at all...but much fewer than I've met.

 

So if the man tried this approach of being totally honest unless he's in a club and both parties are fairly drunk, the lady in question will go elsewhere....unless she thinks she may be able to change his mind and she thinks he is worth the risk.

 

I tried total honesty a few times, total failure.... not in the womans opinion as she could separate the wheat from the chaff, but in my view it was.... as nothing happened! There have been woman who have been totally honest(first)as to what they wanted, ie. only sex... but those always changed their mind after(maybe they had already made up their mind in fact, but just wanted to convince themselves otherwise).

 

Men don't always know if a relationship will be long term or not, sometimes we do.... but very occasionally you can be pleasantly surprised that a woman you thought would perhaps be only temporary turns into someone you really get along with and also deeply love.... but it doesn't happen that often.

 

If all the men in the world were honest to women(I mean totally honest)they would all be at home starting masturbation threads and/or masturbating.... We don't always know until we try.... and in our mind we lost nothing if it doesn't work out, we gained in fact, which can be quite opposite from a females view point. Hence the ongoing issue.

 

In defence of men I will say this, if you were a man for a day and had a penis you would know how very distracting it can be....VERY distracting... and very demanding too I might add. That's not a justification or an excuse, it's just a reason.

 

It is also dependant on how attractive a man is, you can keep the average guy for life, and he may be happy....but throw a lot of temptation his way for a consistent period of time and he will change(he may think he won't.... but a man can only take so much). So.... if you want mr average you can get him and keep him, whether your attracted to him is another matter. The only exception with this I've seen is an older guy... around about 30 plus(30 is low balling, higher is better)simply because he's probably already done it all before and now understands true value within a relationship.

 

If you want a normal guy Kate and marriage you can get him today. There in lies the problem. If you find him attractive, so do other women(temptation), if you find him funny, so do other women(temptation)...and on and on. There must be some exceptions...but they are exceptions.

 

edit: I should make something clear that could be misunderstood.... I consider mr average to be very 'dao' like... and often much happier than the other kind in the long term.

 

hah, the reason why honesty doesn't work is that you're supposed to have no remorse doing it. If you've been told all your life that being totally honest is offensive to women and a crime (and it usually is, until there is "chemistry/lust" in her, or you've been cool headed too, and a bit nicebut point being cool and indifferent because hey you get laid all the time, otherwise you wouldn't be cool headed) it will be kind of hard, especially to change that mentality. Because in one POV u feel like u want to protect women, because you've been told it's offensive, and a crime (ie sexual harrasment) and on the other hand, you will also pretty much be bred out and die off ala darwinism. So it's a lose-lose situation. Both situations would get you either in jail or killed if it even goes that far.

 

So you have to find that healthy balance. ie, u make them feel good about what they're doing. Even if it's wrong. You just SEDUCE their asses. It's like.. like, touching a woman, u want to do it gently, but nonetheless TOUCH THEM, and they're yours.

 

And usually all u gotta do is act confident, and u can be a serial killer, criminal, rapist, drug dealer, anything, but as long as you act confident (right) she's yours because it display "authoritay", and it's damn masculine and sexy too to be seen as if you own the world, and put everyone else to SHAME, and are Bad-ass because in this society, bad=good.

And sex= taboo, which makes sex associated with 'deviancy'.

 

And you NEVER want to seem too serious. Save that for AFTER you've had enough mutual orgasms to make her feel "love". Otherwise she will RUN AWAY like you're a plague.

 

How in the HELL do people get past these double standards without feeling remorse, and then women not caring to help us out and expecting that WE DO EVERY GODDAMN THING FOR THEM@!!!!!!

Edited January 26, 2010 by Non

[Non]

*sigh*

this is so messed up.

[Pietro]

Cat said:

That level of direct honesty is wonderful when you really fancy someone: it's a turn on. That level of "direct honesty" from someone you dont fancy isnt 'direct honesty' anymore: it's intrusive boundary crossing. Men who think women are 'soo complicated to seduce' arent getting with women with whom they have chemistry. Between two people who have the chemistry, its EASY.

 

There are a few things here.

1) attraction comes first.

2) even when there is attraction my experience is that you just cannot jump in and be totally blunt about your feelings, and who you are. As a man you will make women run away so fast you can't say "but Cat...". :-).

 

Women, unless you are a lesbian, you would not know how to seduce a woman.

You might think you know it, but you don't. And this is why men who follow suggestions from women are unsuccessful.

Don't get suggestions from women, get suggestions from successful men.

 

[Pietro]

I don't want readers to imagine I recommend putting it out there online like a laundry list - although I don't care if people do.

Thanks for clarifying this up, Kate.

[Pietro]

*sigh*

this is so messed up.

 

No, no, no, Non

You are so messed up,

we are ok

 

 

[三江源]

Cat said:

 

 

There are a few things here.

1) attraction comes first.

2) even when there is attraction my experience is that you just cannot jump in and be totally blunt about your feelings, and who you are. As a man you will make women run away so fast you can't say "but Cat...". :-).

 

Women, unless you are a lesbian, you would not know how to seduce a woman.

You might think you know it, but you don't. And this is why men who follow suggestions from women are unsuccessful.

Don't get suggestions from women, get suggestions from successful men.

 

 

you know why you cant be totally 'blunt' about your feelings, even if there is attraction? because being 'blunt' suggests a lack of finesse, a lack of sensitivity, a lack of a sense of the art of the slow reveal and of nuance.. so it is a bad sign. being 'direct' is not the same as being 'blunt'... and you CAN be totally 'direct' and it isnt a turn off.. but you cant do it too soon. because again it suggests a lack of sense of timing : a lack of finesse. and that suggests a lack of timing as a lover. and who wants a lover with a lousy sense of timing?! turn off again.

 

idk if women dont know how they 'get seduced', but I do know that seeing ( ie. noticing )men strategise to get sex with you makes them comical, which is a turn off. Sex can be funny, but you should be laughing together, not at the blokes strategies.

 

 

basically painting by numbers people need to be really good looking, or, like Mystery says, wear a big hat.

[Pietro]

you know why you cant be totally 'blunt' about your feelings, even if there is attraction? because being 'blunt' suggests a lack of finesse, a lack of sensitivity, a lack of a sense of the art of the slow reveal and of nuance.. so it is a bad sign. being 'direct' is not the same as being 'blunt'... and you CAN be totally 'direct' and it isnt a turn off.. but you cant do it too soon. because again it suggests a lack of sense of timing : a lack of finesse. and that suggests a lack of timing as a lover. and who wants a lover with a lousy sense of timing?! turn off again.

 

idk if women dont know how they 'get seduced', but I do know that seeing ( ie. noticing )men strategise to get sex with you makes them comical, which is a turn off. Sex can be funny, but you should be laughing together, not at the blokes strategies.

 

 

basically painting by numbers people need to be really good looking, or, like Mystery says, wear a big hat.

 

I totally agree with you.

 

EDIT: Late Addition:

There is one thing that I would like to add to all this.

Women are much smarter than men in social situation. The amount of brain that is used for understanding social relations in women is nearly 10 times more in women than in men. We are essentially all dumb, blind and deaf to what they feel and perceive in a social interaction. So, for example, this sense of timing Cat speaks about does not come to men naturally. We need to develop it. And here is where the PUA teaching about "not being just your self, but being your best self" comes in. We need to make a conscious effort to be at our best, and then we can start to look a bit less dumb...

 

a bit less

and a bit more

Edited January 26, 2010 by Pietro

[Non]

Guys...

 

see women are always judging men based on appearance. And they say we don't.

 

They come up with justifications for certain behaviours because they've been judging them for so long. It's like superstition.

 

Anyways.. what you're talking about Cat, doesn't necessarily signify that you LACK IN BED.

 

It simply signifies that they want you.

 

It may also signify the skill or the success they have in getting women INTO bed with them but not their skill in the bed already.