masturbation and attractiveness

[Non]

Non, go to any Salsa club and observe the mating rituals there

 

yea well, all dance especially nowadays is dry sex so I wouldn't be surprised.

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

Edited January 27, 2010 by Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that

[Non]

Non, I can understand that you feel bitterness about the fact that a man with a superficial and arrogant cocky confidence will do much better with women than a polite and well intentioned man without any confidence. I can also understand that you get bitter thinking about how women does not NEED confidence to be able to get men (although it sure makes them more atractive to most and many would not date a woman without confidence there are still plenty that will). However, all you need is just a bare minimum of self ACEPTANCE and self confidence to be attractive to quite a large group of women. I that is coupled with other nice qualities such as being a gentleman, being kind, being charming and being fun and interesting. Please go to charismaarts.com and ask your questions there. You will find that they teach a form of pickup where you can still be yourself and where you do not have to come of as overly strong or superior or anything like that. They even actively flaunt negative qualities about themselves (without fear) to women they pick up to not come of as aproval seeking. Insecurities can be such a quality because if you come of as BRAVE in not trying to hide it that is attractive. Sure some level of confidence is key, but you do NOT need al that much. Most men actually get laid once in a while and almost all men get girlfirends but most men are not all that confident either in apearance or in reality. Sure if you want to be a player you will need a strong apearance of confidence but to get a nice sweet girl you don`t. YOu HAVE to GET OVER the fact that some of thses things are a bit unfair. An enormous aount of other stuff in life are more unfair and often unfair for women. This is actually a quite minor problem compared to what else one can get worked up about.

 

There are also tons of people that has learned juggler method that started out as virgins and without ANY friends high up in their twenties and thirties. SOme bums have told you similar stories. Why are you any different. These people were seriously depressed. Actually you are better of because you practice cultivation stuff and kung fu that will help you a lot with your "inner game" and apearance and with having an attractive lifestyle in the long run. Actually I think you should start to emphasize towards yourself a couple of points. You are in COLLEGE. That is highly attractive to women. Women respond much better to people who take a higher education. You are inteligent and well read. WOmen respond very well to that. You practice a martial art. You also practice meditation and qigong and yoga. Women LOVE that. Because it shows you lead an active life and are not lazy but do more than you "need" and don`t just play playstation. They love the fact that you are interested in self development through these things. They love that you take care of your heatlh with it. They love that you have the sensitivity to be interested in such things. I seem to remember you have said that you do not look bad. That is also very important. You are a kind person with love and integrity. As long as you have the minimum level of confidence required that will also be sexualy attractive. Really all you need is some mental balance, some development of basic social skills and a little bit of confidence and you will get women. Once you do it will be quite easy for you to develop the ability to have multiple orgasms and practice tantric stuff because of your cultivation practice: that will blow their minds. You are not worse of than many who have used pickup arts to get the basic level of social skills and confidence needed and when that happens all of your good qualtiies and skills will come in and be to great use.

 

You have complained a lot about the catch 22 of this situation because you are deprived of the touch, aproval, social interaction and sex that you feel would give you the confidence and skills needed to get those very same things. I understand that and that is a difficult situation for sure. However, tons of people have broken that exact Catch 22 before. Especially in the world of pickup huge numbers have done that exact thing. So your situation is not unbeatable at all. If you can learn to acept yourself and love yourself to a certain degree that will be enough to get the ball rolling.

 

There are a couple of things that could help. Touch therapy/tactile stimulation therapy will boost your oxcytocin levels as much as you need them and that will help with all your problems. There has to be someone in Miami that does that kind of therapy.

 

There are also much better alternatives than a regular escort. There are "tantric godesses" taht absolutely LOVE what they do for work and that can provide you with the physical contact and stimulation that you crave and can also train you in basic lovemaking skills. May of thses do not provide intercourse but many also do. There are also sexual surrogates that specialize in helping out and training people in your EXACT situation. They slowly counsel you through talking and when it feels ok for both, touching, whcih eventually escalate up till intercourse if you so wish. These are also people who are ok with and like what they do. The New School of erotic touch trains people in sexual massage also for providing a professional service. The people who run the organisation and those who take their courses realy belive in what they are doing and you would not hurt anyone in taking services from someone that they have trained and recomend. Send them an email or ask a question in their forum:

 

http://www.eroticmassage.com/

 

 

I also suggest that you start with the inner smile meditation instead of some of the other stuff you practce. This is because it will do so much to boost your happiness/oxcytocin/lightheartedness/optimism/confidence/contentment etc. etc. all the things you need. And it will put a smile on your face. IT will be so usefull for achieving what you want to achieve with regards to scoial interaction. Start by just conciously making s small smile and feel arround the mouth and eyes untill you can feel an uplifting smiling energy. Then let it grow and expand and you take it from there (micahel IWnn has good instructions for it).

As long as your mouth is physically shapped as a smile it will still start producing smilling energy no matter how miserable you are. It is pure physiology.

 

 

Man, it isn't even about confidence. I have more than a bare minimum of confidence.

 

What they want is "BAD." That's what it's all about, that's what SOCIETY is all about, that's what NATURE is all about, that's what REVOLUTION is all about. You need to be remorseless to talk to women. The "bravery" you need is the kind of bravery that lets you talk to a woman like she's a piece of meat, like a predator, and not care about it, once u do care about it, you are no longer attractive.

 

You can say it's not like that, but at it's fundamental level, it is all predatory. Only "accepted" behavior, and non accepted behavior.

Edited January 28, 2010 by Non

[Tao99]

closed

Edited January 29, 2010 by Tao99

[gendao]

You can say it's not like that, but at it's fundamental level, it is all predatory. Only "accepted" behavior, and non accepted behavior.

You make it sound too 1-sided, with the woman always getting ripped off because she gets nothing out of it.

 

When in fact, the woman could get the same or even more out any "relationship" with a man. So to me it's more like you both lay out your cards and if you mutually consent (feel it's symbiotic enough to be worth it)...then you agree to make a deal. If not, then you don't.

 

It's just like any other "deal" you may consider making. They are usually "fair enough" to both parties (minus con jobs)...cuz otherwise the deal wouldn't have been made to begin with.

 

 

Why don't we reframe this self-limiting belief that "I have nothing to offer a woman and so would only be using her" with "I can offer a woman a great time!"

Edited January 28, 2010 by vortex

[Gjeken]

How about you stop making up stories in your head about how society and women works.

You have no fucking clue what you are talking about and you are insulting all women with your stupid talk.

[Non]

I treat woman like I can take em or leave em, no big deal to me, plenty of other fish in the sea, and not care about it in any way, shape or form. So we are talking about the same thing only there is nothing harmful or inferior-izing in it. It could be called the SELF-SUFFICIENCY ATTRACTION SWITCH. It'l put hair on your chest! Good luck with it!

 

Exactly. Its like, they want a guy who doesn't care about them at all, who treats them like Nothing.

 

I couldn't do that.

 

Besides, it's not like I've had tons of sex that I can actually play that part without any sort of inconsistency.

 

So I guess women are attracted to the player types, and then complain about it, then go back to the same player.

 

Maybe it's because they rely on other people's opinions to decide whether a man is attractive or not? Like, freakin monkey see monkey do. If you see a crowd of women over one guy, he's automatically the most desireable man. Doesn't matter if he mislead all of them.

Edited January 28, 2010 by Non

[Tao99]

Edited July 10, 2010 by Tao99

[Aetherous]

What they want is "BAD." That's what it's all about, that's what SOCIETY is all about, that's what NATURE is all about, that's what REVOLUTION is all about. You need to be remorseless to talk to women. The "bravery" you need is the kind of bravery that lets you talk to a woman like she's a piece of meat, like a predator, and not care about it, once u do care about it, you are no longer attractive.

 

This is so ridiculous.

 

Try being mean to women and see how far it gets you. Seriously...tonight go out, and be a total jerk. You will only get laid if you meet the wrong type of woman.

 

There are many more good ones out there.

 

They obviously aren't at the places you are looking (if you're even looking at all).

 

Good luck.

[Non]

You're close but, a little askew about it - more like who treats them like they can live without them is the point. Makes it feel like you are self-sufficient and standing on your own two feet, and that's attractive. But believe me from years of experience, every year when Valentines Day comes, they all want to hear that you care about them and truly, romantically want them (not needy clinging.)

 

so how do you get over the fact that at 23 your a virgin, never had female friends, or anthing, without making it seem like you really need them, because in fact you do?

 

So I guess the only way is to lie, and become a good actor. Which I can't do because I'm not an actor, nor do I even know the damn role because I've never experienced it.

[Non]

This is so ridiculous.

 

Try being mean to women and see how far it gets you. Seriously...tonight go out, and be a total jerk. You will only get laid if you meet the wrong type of woman.

 

There are many more good ones out there.

 

They obviously aren't at the places you are looking (if you're even looking at all).

 

Good luck.

 

No no, you have to be devious about it.

 

You have to be a jerk, AND funny. You need to not come off as a jerk, yet still are. You need to be deceptive about it.

 

Cuz women want Hard, and ruthless.

[Non]

You are very patient with him.

 

I think the very first thing that a woman checks out in a guy, and guys forget this, is--will this guy stalk me? Being stalked and attempted rape are very very common experiences for women. Now of course guys think, well of course I would never stalk a woman or be controlling with a woman! They are insulted to even think that a woman would be checking them out for these characteristics. Yet that is the very first thing women screen for, and quite right that they do.

 

The useful thing about PUA methods is that the first thing they do is get rid of the false signals that might alarm a woman. Men are taught to be indifferent, to be light and casual, to not come off as obsessive or bitter. Instead they are playful and lighthearted, not really into it, playing a game. This in itself puts them way ahead of the guys who give off the vibe it's SO IMPORTANT to get that girl, because if dating is that important and she does something wrong, he might feel he has to punish her in some way.

 

This is the very first thing, the very first gate a guy has to get through. Non, maybe your pickup demeanor is more lighthearted, but your posts here are coming off as bitter, misogynistic and feeling threatened by women. All of these vibes put together are a surefire trigger to make women run for the exits. This is why everyone is telling you to simply spend time with groups of women, even or especially women that you aren't particularly attracted to, to get rid of this mindset towards women.

 

It's a funny thing u mention that.

 

Women do make themselves more unapproachable, and more colder than the average guy does. At least for the 'good and nice guys'.

 

but besides they also carry a large impenetrable shield or forcefield around them. And they also manipulate it too, letting in the "badboys" and shielding off the "good guys".

 

So, the good guy, just can't penetrate it, so it looks like he's needy, or obsessive. He also doens't want to OFFEND the girl by being too forward, so he comes off awkward. This does send stalker signals, evne if he's not a stalker.

 

But then what do you know, he gets bitter, and set off because no girl wants to even acknowledge his presence.

Edited January 28, 2010 by Non

[Aetherous]

Non,

 

The problem is that you only have the option of meeting strangers. If you join a club or something, then the girls HAVE to meet you and it's easy to talk to them. They aren't mean. They are just normal people, and most normal people think it's weird for a total stranger to come up to them...it's as if that person wants something they aren't entitled to have.

 

No no, you have to be devious about it.

 

You have to be a jerk, AND funny. You need to not come off as a jerk, yet still are. You need to be deceptive about it.

 

Cuz women want Hard, and ruthless.

 

No, you're totally wrong. Why are you telling me how it is when you're the one with the women problems?

[Non]

Nature is survival of the fittest and organisms do what they have to to survive. And yes, deviousness (guerilla warfare) can be one of those strategies. You may not like it, but you can learn to accept it as evolutionary hard-wiring - without taking it too personally. Look, people are still robotic slaves to their biological instincts that evolved over millions of years - not to mention a lifetime of societal programming. So that's not all just going to fly out the window simply once they meet YOU.

 

Anyhow, I don't know why you're so down on PU, because it evolved exactly to help a whole generation of post-feminist "AFCs" like you. The founders studied a lot of evo-pysch and reverse-engineered mating strategies of successful "naturals." They field-tested various methods to isolate core principles that actually worked through trial-and error and the process of elimination. So, a million other guys in that community have already had all the same questions and inner conflicts as you. And many answers have now been found! You are hardly unique, so why reinvent the wheel here?

 

At its basis, PU is all about holistic self-improvement and improving your interpersonal skills. Which are going to help your life both personally and professionally, irrespective of dating women. Which all in turn is going to improve your prospects with dating women, irrespectively. So, it basically generates a POSITIVE feedback loop in your life (thus reversing the NEGATIVE AFC loop). Now, how cool is that?

 

Anyhow, I like that you can at least stand up for yourself with some fire in your belly. Getting righteously angry at least shows that you have the honesty and balls to admit the problem and DEMAND BETTER for yourself. Many AFCs never even get that far because their self-esteem is so damn low that they feel they simply deserve whatever they get (or don't get) in life. Which is too bad because many of them are genuinely good guys.

 

The road to the Promised Land is not a short one, though. It's a long process of introverted self-analysis and external feedback. So, I think you may spend another year or so venting and thoroughly analyzing this conundrum. Then, you will accept it as-is and start learning some personal countermeasures (PU or other self-help). Give that some time to marinate for about a year or so and then gradually start applying some of it to your actual life. Eventually, you will notice few results but as you get over the learning curve, you will start reaping some dividends and payback. And after that, you will just keep building on your momentum and enjoy the POSITIVE FEEDBACK LOOP YOU've now created!

 

So, you got a ways to go...but you're on the right path and fortunately, time is on your side. Just be dilligent and patient. PU already has thousands of success stories of guys just like YOU. Yes, YOU can do it, but only YOU can for yourself...

 

 

So what is post-feminist then? Being nice to women?

 

So basically, the PU artists are just teaching to not let them have it, and not take their shit?

 

I mean come on. BTW one also has to realize what one person has said before that sticks to me. Feminism ideally is supposed to be good, but has been corrupted. Feminism only let women bcome more like men but not be like the women they're supposed to be in the first place, so it has kinda failed.

 

And besides that, still human corruption leading it to devious ways.

[Non]

Non,

 

The problem is that you only have the option of meeting strangers. If you join a club or something, then the girls HAVE to meet you and it's easy to talk to them. They aren't mean. They are just normal people, and most normal people think it's weird for a total stranger to come up to them...it's as if that person wants something they aren't entitled to have.

 

 

 

No, you're totally wrong. Why are you telling me how it is when you're the one with the women problems?

 

yea I never got how men could just approach a woman they have on their "radars" for sex without seeming like they want sex. So I thought well this guy just shows no remorse.

 

Besides that even strangers hardly talk to each other for social reasons unless at a social event. But even THEN....

 

Grrrrrrrrr

Edited January 28, 2010 by Non

[Tao99]

[

Edited July 10, 2010 by Tao99

[Non]

In Reality the vast amount of woman over 21 want precisely what you see in this picture.

 

They want the good, reliable man they can count on who is self-sufficient and will take care of them and their children.

 

If he was a jerk, hard and ruthless, he wouldn't be standing there, in the tux she probably picked out for him, smiling and being helpful. That's the Reality. He decided he liked and wanted what lifelong love has to offer, and he turned on the SELF-SUFFICIENCY SWITCH and CHARM. He did the exact opposite as you seem to believe works in Reality. And that's why he is smiling.

 

 

Rofl please. not in this society.

 

Now you have college, and can't settle down until you're in your FREAKING 40s!

 

So until then you just fuck around and have your body and mind worn out of exhaustion.

 

Something I couldn't really do.

 

No girl wants to settle down, not even for a damn BOYFRIEND.

 

Even if it is a boyfriend is a series of boyfriends. or "fuck buddies". or just, a boyfriend for a time. Then, time to leave, and get a new one, etc. Depending on where you are, depending on the time. They have in mind that relationships are to be broken, and to make new ones. Over and over again. How can we do this, we are only in our prime what 5 yrs of our lives more or less before we start to get old?

Edited January 28, 2010 by Non

[Non]

Gahh......

[Guest paul walter]

so how do you get over the fact that at 23 your a virgin, never had female friends, or anthing, without making it seem like you really need them, because in fact you do?

 

So I guess the only way is to lie, and become a good actor. Which I can't do because I'm not an actor, nor do I even know the damn role because I've never experienced it.

 

 

Non, you do realise you've chosen to have a constructive discussion about the intricacies of male/female dynamics with the emotional equivalent of a bulldozer! Tao99/his attitude is what you DON'T want re-inforced, it is immature, irresponsible (to himself mostly) and self-defeating. You are always attracted to that which is the easiest way out--which is that which simply 'proves' your already formed opinions on the subject. You admit you have no experience in the matter so why have a closed opinion on it-in fact you shouldn't have ANY hard opinion at all if you are really looking for the truth of things. Beware of misogynists in wolves' clothing, Non.

 

Have you ever thought for one second that you can't be an actor because you are already committing yourself to the role of a lifetime--there simply isn't any room for further acting engagements because you are utterly dedicated to the role of victim? As always, I'm not being mean-it's just that if a person is not 'open', if they are 'closed' to life then they have assumed the role. Stop identifying with your perceived failure in regards women/yourself so intensely and obsessively and things will begin to open out and flow and change will happen. Solidarity, Paul

[Tao99]

Non, Tao99/his attitude is what you DON'T want re-inforced, Solidarity, Paul

 

And that's why you don't go to the internet for advice. All you get is crap like my ramblings. haha

 

He's right, seek professional help. And I will bail out of this one..

 

The bailed out don't speak

The long black snake of karma shakes

 

Effects follow causes

Nothing I can do

Edited January 29, 2010 by Tao99

[Guest paul walter]

And that's why you don't go to the internet for advice. All you get is crap like my ramblings. haha

 

He's right, seek professional help. And I will bail out of this one.

 

Thanks then tao99, that's responsible of you. Paul

[Non]

and Pick Up artists.

 

You know the pick up artist community started on the FREAKING INTERNET.

[Tao99]

Edited July 10, 2010 by Tao99

[gendao]

No girl wants to settle down, not even for a damn BOYFRIEND.

 

Even if it is a boyfriend is a series of boyfriends. or "fuck buddies". or just, a boyfriend for a time. Then, time to leave, and get a new one, etc. Depending on where you are, depending on the time. They have in mind that relationships are to be broken, and to make new ones. Over and over again. How can we do this, we are only in our prime what 5 yrs of our lives more or less before we start to get old?

Well, if you're looking for a lifelong ball & chain...then I agree. Increasingly unlikely in today's post-feminist (after feminism took effect) era.

 

All metrics are trending away from this. Marriage down, divorce up and almost half of American babies are now born to single baby mamas. So, good luck if that's what you're after.

 

If you're more open to less-committed casual liaisons though, those are far more popular today.

 

 

Again, all of these issues and concerns have already all been addressed on numerous PU forums, though.

[Non]

Well, if you're looking for a lifelong ball & chain...then I agree. Increasingly unlikely in today's post-feminist (after feminism took effect) era.

 

All metrics are trending away from this. Marriage down, divorce up and almost half of American babies are now born to single baby mamas. So, good luck if that's what you're after.

 

If you're more open to less-committed casual liaisons though, those are far more popular today.

 

 

Again, all of these issues and concerns have already all been addressed on numerous PU forums, though.

 

but I dont want a casual relationship. I dont want others having casual relationships either. Idont want my girl to be casual or have had too many casual relationships if any.