Electric Qigong School

[Aeran]

You bring up an excellent point, Aeran!

 

The video of the guy lighting the light bulb in front of a distant but adoring crowd is intended to be a public demonstration of his energetic abilities.

 

I went back and rewatched the video, and I think you're overstating it a bit. the "crowd," from what's visible in the video, is about a dozen people, standing a few meters behind him, clapping politely when the bulb lights up. I don't think "distant but adoring" is an accurate description.

 

 

As such, using one of the most easily faked parlor tricks of the 21st century is decidedly unconvincing.

 

I would argue that, within the context of the Chinese internal arts, the whole "point at a student and have them bounce around a bit" routine is far, far more common than the lightbulb routine. 

 

And I never said that the video should be convincing. What I said was that people shouldn't jump to conclusions.

 

Perhaps he followed it up with impartial qualitative investigation and demonstrated an ability to generate significant potential difference, charge and current in a controlled environment but none of that is in evidence.

 

That's kind of my point. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't, we don't know. Therefore why not say "we don't know" instead of responding with rudeness, dogmatism and derision?

 

 

Note that this does not mean that people can't generate electricity, or that there aren't people who can make things materialize and vanish -- it just means that the video is about as convincing as an eight-year-old with a deck of cards.

 

I never argued that the video is convincing, or unconvincing. And we have no way of knowing whether it was intended to be convincing or unconvincing. I can't read Italian so the corresponding links are useless, so all we're debating about is an out of context video.

 

 

 

Ya Mu, on the other hand, has posted a few video snippets of a workshop in progress. The one which gets the most attention is actually showing one of our own Bums, who has written about that experience first hand. I've not only met that Bum IRL but I was in the room at the time -- I am in the video, too. Even with that personal, first-hand experience, I wouldn't expect anyone to be convinced of anything from watching one of those videos -- in fact, I would look askance at anyone who took them as proof of anything,

 

An admirable attitude, but shouldn't it cut both ways? If a video as a medium is poor evidence that an individual is a master, shouldn't it be equally poor evidence that the individual is a fraud?

 

 

If you were posting a "highlights" reel of a neigong workshop, you probably wouldn't post several minutes of someone sitting motionless, would you? Neither would you post highlights of a soccer match by showing 30 seconds of two guys passing the ball back and forth as they approach mid-field. Instead, you would post something with action that, hopefully, would spark a little interest and curiosity within the viewer. A small fraction of the viewers might be sufficiently curious to want to find out more, and Ya Mu's videos are presented within that context.

 

Personally, if I was making a "highlights reel" of a nei gong workshop, I'd have it consist of the most interesting snippets of what the individual hosting the workshop has to say during his/her lectures, giving the viewer a feel for the teachings of the individual, their worldview, understanding of their own practices, etc. Because as you said, video's can't prove anything.

 

 

I would challenge you to find an example in which Ya Mu or any of his students have ever presented one of those videos as proof of anything. On the contrary, Ya Mu has repeatedly advised people to NOT go seeking special powers at all, and has urged people to try the system for themselves and report on their own personal experiences.

 

And this is just an out of context video - sure it could be the case that the man in question had the video filmed and uploaded it with the specific intention that it serve as proof of some kind of power he possesses. On the flip side, it could have been taken by someone who was randomly invited to come along to a lecture or training session hosted by the guy, consisting of a few out of context seconds of a much larger chain of interactions and teachings, and then been uploaded without the man's knowledge. We have no idea.

 

 

 

This is in stark contrast to the "just because it's the most easily faked trick in the book doesn't mean this particular lightbulb-lighter isn't the real-deal" attitude in this thread. Heck! The OP states that guy (don't know whether it is the same guy as that original 5-year-old link doesn't work for me) "uses some type of electrical device to enhance energy."

 

I would argue, again, that the "point and bounce" routine is the oldest trick in the book by far. And I'm not ripping on Ya Mu, from what I know of the guy my opinion is that he's most likely a legitimate teacher, just saying that the videos are more or less on-par.

 

You're kind of mis-stating my case. If people had just responded to the OP with "yeah dude, it's just a grainy video of something which can be faked, I wouldn't take it as evidence of anything either way," then I never would have chimed in. Cause that's how I feel myself. But people are taking it as evidence, just of the opposite kind that the OP implied - instead of taking it as evidence that the guy is real, they're taking it as evidence that the guy is a fraud, when in truth it is evidence of neither. It's shoddy thinking and it's a pretty crappy attitude for a community based around discussing energetic arts and spiritual cultivation. And that's not even touching on the response of certain individuals when I responded with something other than jumping aboard the hate-train.

 

 

At the risk of opening this can of worms again...

 

Yeah, let's not go there

Edited November 9, 2015 by Aeran

[vonkrankenhaus]

Re:

-----

"I guess I just hoped at least some people posting on a board about practicing arts which entails phenomena which are well outside the mainstream scientific materialist/reductionist view of reality would be a bit less dogmatic about these things and more able to accept that there are possibilities within existence which they aren't aware of either way, since they've (presumably) actively experienced things which are, by society's standard, impossible, but it appears that isn't the case."

-----

 

Nothing I have written is "dogma".

 

I invoked no "principle" that has been violated.

 

I did not even use your "logic" that you attributed to me.

 

However, your insistence on a specific logic and response IS quite dogmatic.

 

And holding onto that in the face of someone telling you they have decades of experience is.

 

And THAT is more the real reason why people don't understand.

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Brian]

When I see a bird that walks like a duck and swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, I call that bird a duck.

 

James Whitcomb Riley

[Aeran]

When I see a bird that walks like a duck and swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, I call that bird a duck.

 

James Whitcomb Riley

 

What about when you see a grainy image of something that may or may not be a bird at all?

[Synchronic]

 

 

What do you think of these video Krankenhaus?

 

 

 

 

Guy has a whole bunch of videos showing different phenomenon if you have the time/willingness to check them out.

[Silent Answers]

Why bother? When we tell you it's more stage magic, you'll only disapprove.

[vonkrankenhaus]

Those videos are not showing qi cultivation.

 

I will look for some that do.

 

If I cannot find any, I will make some.

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Synchronic]

Those videos are not showing qi cultivation.

 

I will look for some that do.

 

If I cannot find any, I will make some.

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

Ok thanks Krankenhaus, I personally believe those videos are legit but I am happy to be disproved, I personally have managed to manipulate the wind, and I have a friend who when was younger with a bunch of friends managed to part the clouds in a circle above them when it was raining by what he described as an "anti-rain dance", which was apparently repeated again that day after the clouds rejoined and started raining on them again.

 

Obviously they knew nothing of chi as they were 10 (or so) year old British kids messing around in the woods, but that is probably an ideal age to naturally be intune with your energies and those of universe.