How detremental is external locking method?

[Trunk]

.. a couple seconds of pressure -- even if overly hard -- could cause such discomfort! Although it obviously did. I re-read Multi-Orgasmic Man to look for "troubleshooting," and the author(s) mention that discomfort is normal at first, but pain is not. Presumably I pressed too hard, or too far forward.

 

Um, "The Multi-Orgasmic Man" has been repeatedly recognized as perhaps one of the worst irresponsible presentations of esoteric sexuality. You'd do yourself a favor by throwing it away and considering as highly suspect anything you've 'learned' by it.

 

I know I mentioned this earlier in the thread, but again here's a link to Michael Winn's comments re: dangers of external locking using the "million $ point".

[rif]

Um, "The Multi-Orgasmic Man" has been repeatedly recognized as perhaps one of the worst irresponsible presentations of esoteric sexuality. You'd do yourself a favor by throwing it away and considering as highly suspect anything you've 'learned' by it.

 

I know I mentioned this earlier in the thread, but again here's a link to Michael Winn's comments re: dangers of external locking using the "million $ point".

 

So I've seen, after the fact. I did read that linked article as well, thanks.

 

Does this sentiment hold against other books from Chia as well?

 

Ugh, I'm more sore than I was earlier, as I type this -- sitting at work all day is still uncomfortable! If I wasn't me, I'd be smiling sympathetically.

[Trunk]

Does this sentiment hold against other books from Chia as well?

 

In short: yes.

Though MOM is the worst, Chia's books on sexuality and iron shirt are also quite bad. Injury rates are predictably too high (though certainly not everyone gets injured).

 

Of course, opinions vary, and this is sometimes a heated topic of debate. There are undeniably plenty who arrive in the e-communities w/ similar patterns of injury after reading & experimenting w/ Chia's works.

[EagleShen]

Any suggestions on a better book to use (for those without access to a direct teacher)?

[Trunk]

Any suggestions on a better book to use (for those without access to a direct teacher)?

 

imo, There is no clear responsible treatment of the subject in english. (I assume that there is in Chinese, though even in historical China this has been a controversial topic.)

 

A foundational treatment of jing gong would have to include:

1) Healing - That is, the medicine. What can go wrong and how to remedy. (Most people don't know even the basics of what can go wrong, so they don't even know if they're headed in the totally wrong direction.)

2) Healthy Normal - Practices for basic normal healthy sexuality.

3) Advanced - Advanced esoteric principles and practice.

 

We're just not there yet. This doesn't exist.

 

My (free) site, alchemicaltaoism.com, has some broad treatment of various aspects and is sort of an accumulation of insights from the e-community. Some valuable insights. But still: we're not there yet.

 

If you're one of those that must engage in this topic (it's unavoidable for some) then learn from where you can, and be wary.

 

- Trunk

[dragonfire45]

My teacher studied with a lot of masters including Yan Xin. Three months of three sessions of 100-breath counting dantien meditation is the best foundation, till you can retain clear awareness all the way upto 100th breath. And then you move on to the common standing practice. Simple enough to start off without the need for a teacher. With that foundation, you have a strong base to move to other advanced practices. And if you can do that in full lotus, nothing like it! A highly cultivated teacher, I was told, did just this, some standing and ran for 30 minutes everyday. He cultivated faster and better than many famous qigong masters in China in the 60s and 70s. I can't remember his name now.

 

Or were you asking for a testicular breathing-specific practice?

Edited May 18, 2010 by dragonfire45

[mjjbecker]

It's all been discussed to death more than once.

 

What Trunk said. There are mistakes in some of Chia's books. There are a lot of stories regarding people injuring themselves using practices from these books (and I've noticed this over a period of more than ten years). I have seen and tried some of his stuff, and I know that was wrong (not just from the personal experience of practice, but also comparing it to direct instruction from an authentic lineage holding instructor).

 

You want good instruction? Really, I would say a teacher is strongly recommended. The KAP course by Santiago would be one recommendation-and can be done online. Go and see Michael Lomax and do 'Stillness Movement' neigong. Using the search function and reading these teachers comments will show you why I recommend them (particularly Michael Lomax's comments regarding 'retention'). I suspect saving up the money and attending a seminar by either would be well worth the effort.

 

If you want books and such like, Spring Forest, Chu's Nei Kung and Eternal Spring are good. There are DVD's also. Build your qi and your health. Find a nice person if you haven't already and get laid when the mood takes you both. And smile. Enjoy life. This fixation on retention really is beyond me...

[Taoist81]

Look again. Page 64, to be more exact.

And Deer Exercise is not anal clinch.

Interesting that Chinese masters seem to agree on these matters.

 

You must mean pg 64 of the ToS book, that one isn't on hand so we'll have to take your word. As for the Deer Exercise, while there are different "instructions" given by people all over the net (and maybe even in the Tao of Sexology), in the Internal Exercises book Chang specifically says contract the muscles around the anal sphincter. He even repeats it in step 3 by saying to "repeat the anal contraction". So, one version, at least, of the Deer Exercise is an "anal contraction".

[宁]

You must mean pg 64 of the ToS book, that one isn't on hand so we'll have to take your word. As for the Deer Exercise, while there are different "instructions" given by people all over the net (and maybe even in the Tao of Sexology), in the Internal Exercises book Chang specifically says contract the muscles around the anal sphincter. He even repeats it in step 3 by saying to "repeat the anal contraction". So, one version, at least, of the Deer Exercise is an "anal contraction".

 

Perineum power is a part of Dear Exercise, yes.

 

It's interesting how, when you want to climb the ladder of spiritual evolution, you have specifical trials that are the same on every spiritual path you choose.

There's no way around them.

If you take the mild approach, you fail the trial.

One is sex, two is food, three is money, four is power.... five maybe fame.

'cuz after you master the first three or four, you're not just anybody.

You're the Real McCoy.

 

But me, I'm just here for the fun in it.

And at least to me there's no fun in taking things the easy way.

Either you put your mind in it, your soul in it, your spirit in it, and you try until you get it right.... or you just skip it and go ahead living a happy life, with no worries about spiritual cultivation and such.

 

Bye now

 

L1

[Taoist81]

Perineum power is a part of Dear Exercise, yes.

 

It's interesting how, when you want to climb the ladder of spiritual evolution, you have specifical trials that are the same on every spiritual path you choose.

There's no way around them.

If you take the mild approach, you fail the trial.

One is sex, two is food, three is money, four is power.... five maybe fame.

'cuz after you master the first three or four, you're not just anybody.

You're the Real McCoy.

 

But me, I'm just here for the fun in it.

And at least to me there's no fun in taking things the easy way.

Either you put your mind in it, your soul in it, your spirit in it, and you try until you get it right.... or you just skip it and go ahead living a happy life, with no worries about spiritual cultivation and such.

 

Bye now

 

L1

 

 

...?

What is under discussion here is not "right" or "wrong" or even "spiritual cultivation". You made a claim about Stephen T Chang's exercises, which he presents in a physical/mental health perspective more than a spiritual perspective (the distinction or lack thereof between these two is a wholly different discussion). You gave a page number for a supposed external locking method advocated by him, akin to the "million dollar point" of Mantak Chia. Then you claimed that the Deer Exercise was "not an anal clinch". But when asked for your sourcese on this (ie what book the pg 64 was in or what book you were getting the claim about the Deer Exercise from) you simply dismiss the question? Perhaps you felt that this was a challenge of the silly sort that go on often on the internet. All it was is what was stated, a request for where you were getting the information from. It is entirely possible that Chang gave contradictory information in his different books, or that a translation error exists in one of the versions.

[宁]

...?

But when asked ...

 

Where was the question, and how did I dismiss it?

Chill out, man, you assume way too much of me.

I read your last post, there was no question in it.

And since you asked clearly just now, the book is, as you said, ToS.

[Taiji Bum]

HOWEVER... if instead of locking anything, u simply masturbate (without clenching the perineum) and just stop stimulating yourself in time for the orgasmic build-up to subside, u can direct a lot of that Jing up the spine without external locking or muscle clenches. This way of doing it doesn't cause any congestion at the perineum or cause any problems and IMO is just as effective.

Yeah. What he said.

[Taoist81]

Where was the question, and how did I dismiss it?

Chill out, man, you assume way too much of me.

I read your last post, there was no question in it.

And since you asked clearly just now, the book is, as you said, ToS.

: )

No assumptions made about you, and no need to "chill", just a failure of clarity due to the limits of "text-talk". Thanks for your answer.

[宁]

: )

No assumptions made about you, and no need to "chill", just a failure of clarity due to the limits of "text-talk". Thanks for your answer.

 

Hey no problem.

 

And what Darin says is also possible... question is, what do you do with that power.