Psychic Powers

[zhoupeng]

I was not going to post this but seeing how this discussion is going I would like to remind certain people that everyone has their own path. This is determined by many things, but personal choice is one of the most important ones. People see different things as important to them at various points in time and this can change depending on their experiences. We each need to explore what we choose to explore in order to progress. It is a matter of individual choice and it should be, as ultimately everyone is responsible for themselves.

 

With regards to the direction of their own personal development each person is a sovereign and this should be respected. On the other hand, imposing one's values and priorities on the someone else's chosen path according to what one believes will be good for them is not cool.

 

If there is something you don't agree with that someone else is pursuing but it doesn't affect you or cause you any harm, then please just let it go. There are better uses for your time.

 

Just do what you think is good for you and just let other people seek their Truth.

[forestofclarity]

I don't think its a taboo topic, either. Historically, for every person seeking so-called enlightenment, there are always 100 seeking the powers. I would wager that everyone on this forum either is or had been searching for some sort of powers at one time or another.

 

The question Zhang seems to have is: should I spend my time cultivating powers, then moving on to the Big Game?

 

Shinzen Young has described the pursuit of power as a horizontal axis, and the pursuit of enlightenment as a vertical. The vertical eventually leads to what he calls The Source. The horizontal has no limit, it goes on forever. If he's right (and I'll leave that for each of us to decide), then pursuing enlightenment may lead to power, but pursuing power may not lead to enlightenment. In fact, pursuing power may lead to pursuing more power, and on and on. A person may have great power, but still suffer. But some one who has gone beyond suffering won't care whether or not they have power.

 

His advice was to find the source, than develop the powers to help others if you choose.

[Sloppy Zhang]

I don't think its a taboo topic, either. Historically, for every person seeking so-called enlightenment, there are always 100 seeking the powers. I would wager that everyone on this forum either is or had been searching for some sort of powers at one time or another.

 

The question Zhang seems to have is: should I spend my time cultivating powers, then moving on to the Big Game?

 

Shinzen Young has described the pursuit of power as a horizontal axis, and the pursuit of enlightenment as a vertical. The vertical eventually leads to what he calls The Source. The horizontal has no limit, it goes on forever. If he's right (and I'll leave that for each of us to decide), then pursuing enlightenment may lead to power, but pursuing power may not lead to enlightenment. In fact, pursuing power may lead to pursuing more power, and on and on. A person may have great power, but still suffer. But some one who has gone beyond suffering won't care whether or not they have power.

 

His advice was to find the source, than develop the powers to help others if you choose.

 

Mine looks like this for the domain x>0

 

[Taomeow]

6 out of 25! Yeah!

 

(I was writing an essay while doing the quiz too!)

 

Impressive that you combined it with writing an essay, but 6/25 is almost what you get by pure chance, which is 5/25.

 

I get close to 25/25 (excluding all possibility of pure chance) but only about half of that is on the spot while the rest is one card ahead (i.e. if I don't get the immediate one, then the one I got is the immediate next one). Might be because I've been playing chess (a taoist game) and divining the I Ching -- you start getting a feel for "the next move." That, and a habit of continuously checking invisible "conspiracy theories" against visible political and economic practices.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Impressive that you combined it with writing an essay, but 6/25 is almost what you get by pure chance, which is 5/25.

 

I get close to 25/25 (excluding all possibility of pure chance) but only about half of that is on the spot while the rest is one card ahead (i.e. if I don't get the immediate one, then the one I got is the immediate next one). Might be because I've been playing chess (a taoist game) and divining the I Ching -- you start getting a feel for "the next move." That, and a habit of continuously checking invisible "conspiracy theories" against visible political and economic practices.

 

Occasionally that will happen to me too, I'll get a strong image of a shape and it'll be the next one.... but I don't know if that's precog or just random chance

[Taomeow]

Occasionally that will happen to me too, I'll get a strong image of a shape and it'll be the next one.... but I don't know if that's precog or just random chance

 

If it's the immediate next one, it's pregoc officially -- when the Zener cards were tested at Stanford U (for a few decades, with a huge database of results and the stellar psychics promptly hired by government agencies to remote-spy -- I've read a book by one of them), anyway as I was saying, this was happening a lot and was registered as legit precog. In my case, the reason I can't tell the immediate one from the immediate next one half the time is that I see them both but can't tell which one comes first -- they oscillate or overlap. This is the main pragmatic problem with psychic spying, by the way -- it's easy to see an image but really hard to place it in time correctly. Where these things take place time is loopy...

[Guest paul walter]

I don't think its a taboo topic, either. Historically, for every person seeking so-called enlightenment, there are always 100 seeking the powers. I would wager that everyone on this forum either is or had been searching for some sort of powers at one time or another.

 

The question Zhang seems to have is: should I spend my time cultivating powers, then moving on to the Big Game?

 

Shinzen Young has described the pursuit of power as a horizontal axis, and the pursuit of enlightenment as a vertical. The vertical eventually leads to what he calls The Source. The horizontal has no limit, it goes on forever. If he's right (and I'll leave that for each of us to decide), then pursuing enlightenment may lead to power, but pursuing power may not lead to enlightenment. In fact, pursuing power may lead to pursuing more power, and on and on. A person may have great power, but still suffer. But some one who has gone beyond suffering won't care whether or not they have power.

 

His advice was to find the source, than develop the powers to help others if you choose.

 

 

 

When people lack understanding of the principles of life/identity/time-space etc then there is a necessary indulgence in plurality. People, saddled with an identity they mistake for a 'reality' will need to justify the 'lostness' of that identity by bringing in concepts like 'to each his own' , 'life's rich tapestry' or 'my journey' when it would be more honest to say--"help me, I'm fucking lost and want a way out, I'm trying to change my situation but have no idea how to". A discovery that isn't all that controversial(since it is in all the 'wisdom' traditions) is that one can't really begin the 'journey' until one has learnt to stop , otherwise the 'journey' is simply a circling of the already 'full' ideas each person is trying desperately to slough off. Of course if you want to use the logic of the intellect that can be a personal 'journey'. Since real achievement (this even proved in the mundane realm of psychology) is an uncovering of dross the proper 'method' would entail just sitting and dissolving, waiting for the original 'self' to re-appear. Perhaps when that stage is reached one can talk of a journey since then one can get one's bearings, look in a certain direction and take a step in achieving what wasn't 'achieved' in the previous life or what and whenever. The use of language concepts to create and maintain states of desire are false, as fasle as those ever-changing desires themselves (because they are those desires). This view must obviously be very unpopular in a cultural milieu like this since it undercuts the whole foundation of the social arrangement. Also, you can't really talk on and on about it without it appearing depressingly ironic and hypocritical. Anyway, as a culture it is obviously high time to change the most basic paradigms we live by (through discarding and not replacing them) because of how it kills everything it touches. I understand most people live by the rule of fear and would not accept change/the unknown without conditions etc. but that is the problem. Pursuit of 'powers' is the goal of all powerless people (let's just be honest for a second) and expresses a deep lack of faith/fear in/of life. We've all seen this in others and have pointed it out , and especially when we don't want to see it in ourselves. The thing is to apply it to ourselves without conditions.This is all based on what I live because I have seen it to be so and have had to change all my ideas of accomplishment etc. in light of it. Its a very nice way to be, super-efficient too--you get everything because you accept the 'truth' that you already have everything , and what you think you don't have is what you forgot you had.... Again, I understand this can't be acceptable to most all people since they are trying to make a life out of their existence.

Paul

[Sloppy Zhang]

"help me, I'm fucking lost and want a way out, I'm trying to change my situation but have no idea how to"... Pursuit of 'powers' is the goal of all powerless people (let's just be honest for a second) and expresses a deep lack of faith/fear in/of life.

 

Yes, you have hit the nail on the head.

 

I have no power, I want some. I'm tired of being a victim, tired of being blown about, or washed around by whatever forces are out there.

 

So now what?

[zhoupeng]

Pursuit of 'powers' is the goal of all powerless people (let's just be honest for a second) and expresses a deep lack of faith/fear in/of life. We've all seen this in others and have pointed it out , and especially when we don't want to see it in ourselves. The thing is to apply it to ourselves without conditions.

 

This is correct and is a very good point. People pursue power because they feel powerless and in fear. And they Should do so. Being honest with yourself is definitely good advice for everyone; it is only then that one learns to work correct one's weaknesses and in doing so gain power.

 

The path of the renunciate should be respected as should the path of power.

 

I understand this can't be acceptable to most all people since they are trying to make a life out of their existence.

 

I am glad you wrote this. We are all stuck here. Better make something out of it, no?

[Taomeow]

Yes, you have hit the nail on the head.

 

I have no power, I want some. I'm tired of being a victim, tired of being blown about, or washed around by whatever forces are out there.

 

So now what?

 

Power is good. Abuse of power is bad. Take it from there. If you're going to get great power, get into a habit of not abusing the tiniest smallest bits thereof first -- everybody has some, even powerlessness can be used as a manipulative tool and amount to abuse of power, strangely enough --

so, train yourself to handle power by using it wisely and consciously with an eye on "am I abusing it by doing this?" --

this is the royal road to great power without power trips, The Way And Its Power (the correct translation of TTC, by the way) is not The Way And Its Powerlessness, contrary to what many people believe who have seen much power abuse and have grown suspicious of power as such. Power as such is not suspicious. Tao is powerful, not powerless...

...to be able to use power without abusing it is absolutely the heart of the matter. The cat's meow of tao.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Power is good. Abuse of power is bad. Take it from there. If you're going to get great power, get into a habit of not abusing the tiniest smallest bits thereof first -- everybody has some, even powerlessness can be used as a manipulative tool and amount to abuse of power, strangely enough --

so, train yourself to handle power by using it wisely and consciously with an eye on "am I abusing it by doing this?" --

this is the royal road to great power without power trips, The Way And Its Power (the correct translation of TTC, by the way) is not The Way And Its Powerlessness, contrary to what many people believe who have seen much power abuse and have grown suspicious of power as such. Power as such is not suspicious. Tao is powerful, not powerless...

...to be able to use power without abusing it is absolutely the heart of the matter. The cat's meow of tao.

 

I've already had a taste of abusing power- it's quite repulsive and it's something that I worry about on a daily basis. I have no way of knowing how I impacted the life of the person involved, and it's not something I care to get involved in ever again.

 

That said, I really have no idea what I'd do with any power once I got it, just that it's something I feel a need to do

[Guest paul walter]

Yes, you have hit the nail on the head.

 

I have no power, I want some. I'm tired of being a victim, tired of being blown about, or washed around by whatever forces are out there.

 

So now what?

 

 

You really want an answer? Your ego won't like it.

You have described both your problem and its answer in the above comments. Your feelings expressed above are a perfect circuit that feeds powerlessness and its need to overcome that state of feeling. Agreed? If you keep feeding (through thinking this way)this you will create the mind-state of hopelessness, since there is no way out of a closed and perpetually self-referential system. This desire of yours is not an answer to helplessness but a symptom of helplessnes--you with me? The more this goes on the less options will be available to you for escaping a trap of your own making. You have made this trap without the tools you have at hand--the ego, plus desire, plus culture , movement away and towards things....ALL these 'tools' can be seen as corrupt to the point of uselessness. That's simply because they reflect the culture that tells you to escape your pain, that it's not you causing it (or internalising it if that is more acceptable to you)-it's someone or something else. This is a lie! It's fine for selling escapism and running an economy that never wants to end but is not useful for those who truly want their lives to change. You ever wonder why the world around you never qualifiably changes?-this is the reason (or a reason). I know those new age bastards have polluted the pure waters of positive thought with their use of such mind-states in order to get 'wealth' and 'power' over themselves but that is indeed the state you will need to connect with in order to truly escape the world you are in and the world you are . In honesty, despite you being on a taoist/buddhist forum, do you really believe (have the faith) that simply by sitting and forgetting one can overcome empires of pain and confusion, seas of powerlessness washing back on you everyday despite all your muscled attempts to hold it all back? Well, heres my message--its the only way. Scientifically speaking the less you do the more your nervous and other systems have a chance to relax and recouperate, the muscles/tensions of the body are not so stressed, the blood/oxygen flows more smoothly and the rain uses less energy/glucose so your whole ody benefits from less use. And this is just the beginning--there are immediate benefts from giving up--the problem for the un-principled life we live is that we won't STOP until we've used up the options of logic,intelligence, rhetoric and all the actions that those things give birth to. we often don't learn til we crash and urn..or die. There has to be another way and so there is, of course. Power is not about the will, which is a common misunderstanding in a culture that trains people to believe in themselves as if they were gods. Powers are finite. Do you know the pronciples of taoist science? Do you know Tai Chi, Bagua, meditation, being rooted to the earth and a part of it (not stuck in the head ,which is one of the ways to control people easily)--do you understand the nature of empowerment through not desiring? The whole of taoism is based on the understanding that human civilisations as we know them now are wrong. You can't fix a problem with the same tool that got you into the mess in the first place (Einstein).Power as I know and experience it every day is invisible, empty, non-assertive, like a cat not like a dog, profoundly influences both myself and others for the better, makes me give rather than take, makes me whole rather than oppositional (in fact if there is the slightest assertion of myself as a desiring being or as one who has so little faith in himself/life that I seperate myself from the 'source' and demand then I LOSE EVERYTHING ). I know all this may sound highly esoteric, a higher practice, years of this and that, maybe I'm insane but it can't be denied that the proof is all around me for such an 'outlook' and when I could see it without using my language brain, well that's the day my life started. And as for 'powers'--don't get me started--I GIVE you YOUR power man! Any questions Paul.

[Sloppy Zhang]

In honesty, despite you being on a taoist/buddhist forum, do you really believe (have the faith) that simply by sitting and forgetting one can overcome empires of pain and confusion, seas of powerlessness washing back on you everyday despite all your muscled attempts to hold it all back? Well, heres my message--its the only way. Scientifically speaking the less you do the more your nervous and other systems have a chance to relax and recouperate, the muscles/tensions of the body are not so stressed, the blood/oxygen flows more smoothly and the rain uses less energy/glucose so your whole ody benefits from less use.

 

So far the only benefits people have been listing is better health and being able to accept your current situation.....

 

I'm down with better health, and I accept my situation....

 

Now I would like to change my situation, and I would like something beyond just "health and well being."

 

 

And this is just the beginning--there are immediate benefts from giving up--the problem for the un-principled life we live is that we won't STOP until we've used up the options of logic,intelligence, rhetoric and all the actions that those things give birth to. we often don't learn til we crash and urn..or die. There has to be another way and so there is, of course. Power is not about the will, which is a common misunderstanding in a culture that trains people to believe in themselves as if they were gods.

 

What's wrong with believing in yourself? Oh, right, the whole ego thing....

 

Powers are finite.

 

I know, and I want more finite things

 

Didn't you see the graph explaining my path? Sure, transcendence and freedom and stuff is all good and well, but I'd like to at least accumulate a few more material experiences before I start letting them all go. Can't let go of something you don't have

 

Do you know the pronciples of taoist science? Do you know Tai Chi, Bagua, meditation, being rooted to the earth and a part of it (not stuck in the head ,which is one of the ways to control people easily)--do you understand the nature of empowerment through not desiring? The whole of taoism is based on the understanding that human civilisations as we know them now are wrong. You can't fix a problem with the same tool that got you into the mess in the first place (Einstein).Power as I know and experience it every day is invisible, empty, non-assertive, like a cat not like a dog, profoundly influences both myself and others for the better, makes me give rather than take, makes me whole rather than oppositional (in fact if there is the slightest assertion of myself as a desiring being or as one who has so little faith in himself/life that I seperate myself from the 'source' and demand then I LOSE EVERYTHING ). I know all this may sound highly esoteric, a higher practice, years of this and that, maybe I'm insane but it can't be denied that the proof is all around me for such an 'outlook' and when I could see it without using my language brain, well that's the day my life started. And as for 'powers'--don't get me started--I GIVE you YOUR power man! Any questions Paul.

 

I'm not looking for an outlook. I'm not looking to physically be a bum (no offense to the tao bums ) but mentally be all "transcendent". I'm not looking to be in the same crappy situation as everyone else, but just feel good about it.

 

I'm looking to be able to TANGIBLY move from one tangible position (the one I am at now) to another TANGIBLE position... using non-tangible means

 

Again, all that higher stuff, "let go" "change outlook" blah blah blah, yeah, I get it, I've been working on that for a long time. I am not as stressed out as I used to be, am more healthy than I used to be, I get along well with others which is nice..... but I started this whole journey 4 years ago looking for psychic abilities, and all I'm getting is health stuff. Again, nothing inherently wrong with it buuuuuuut........ well let's just say every time someone comes on this forum and asks how to meditate or what to do, everyone asks:

 

"What's your goal?"

 

My goal is attaining psychic abilities. My practice then, should be geared toward that. If I'm not getting that after four years, then obviously I'm not doing the right practice, or I am doing the practice the wrong way. So.... yeah.

Edited January 27, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[Tao99]

... and I would like something beyond just "health and well being."

 

 

What If?

 

What if ...

 

There are no supernatural powers,

guides or gods on earth.

 

There is only mechanical, cause-effect nature,

and the natural art of change.

 

And true, essential, transcendent, eternal "Health and well-being"

is the supreme ultimate, supreme medicine, and supreme apex

 

What if ...

Edited January 27, 2010 by Tao99

[Sloppy Zhang]

What If?

 

What if ...

 

There are no supernatural powers,

guides or gods on earth.

 

There is only mechanical, cause-effect nature,

and the natural art of change.

 

True, essential, transcendent, eternal "Health and well-being"

is the supreme ultimate, supreme medicine, and supreme apex

 

What if ...

 

Yeah maybe.

 

UNLESS

 

they are real and all you gotta do is go after them.

 

In which case, better to try and be wrong while having the chance of being right than not try at all and be wrong

 

Like I said, I am not questioning their existence. I have had a few experiences which are good enough for me. The issue is that they are all sporadic, uncontrollable, and any time anybody mentions it all you get is, "that's not the point." Well stuff is happening, I am experiencing things that I want to understand, and people are all going on and on about all this tangentially related stuff.

 

It's like, I'm at a batting cage and I'm just swinging a bat randomly at balls, and every once in a while I hit one, but if I just keep wildly flailing about I'm just relying on chance, sometimes I miss, sometimes I hit, sometimes I get hit. I only have a vague notion of what it is I'm supposed to do. What I'm looking for is someone to teach me how to swing the bat, not to tell me, "don't waste your time playing baseball, go get a real job."

Edited January 27, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[Tao99]

Edited July 10, 2010 by Tao99

[Sloppy Zhang]

Ok. But the answer to the "what if that's the case" is to therefore 1)study and understand (non-supernatural/evolutionary) nature and 2)study and understand the skill of the natural art of change.

 

Yeah, I got the mundane bases pretty much covered.

[Tao99]

paul walter, on 26 January 2010 - 06:19 PM, said:

"help me, I'm fucking lost and want a way out, I'm trying to change my situation but have no idea how to"... Pursuit of 'powers' is the goal of all powerless people (let's just be honest for a second) and expresses a deep lack of faith/fear in/of life.

 

Yes, you have hit the nail on the head.

 

I have no power, I want some. I'm tired of being a victim, tired of being blown about, or washed around by whatever forces are out there.

 

So now what?

 

Ok no problem, it was above that urged me to input. Its just that from the above it seemed like your "mundane" bases are not all that covered, and you could learn more about natural art and nature. Huge quantities of power come from understanding nature and the natural art of change as humanity engineers more and more effects. For example, if you are being bullied in your neighborhood, nature and natural art say to learn specifically the physics of a martial art. This happens in every field in the University, and where most power comes from. So before you said psychic powers are first on your list, but natural power, (and more natural power), should probably be your #1. That's all.

Edited January 27, 2010 by Tao99

[zhoupeng]

Before anyone starts talking about someone else's ego, please do everyone a favour and take a minute to examine yourself.

 

 

 

 

 

There.

 

To anyone reading this, let's play a game: lets go through this thread and read all the posts that purport to give some sort of 'advice' and play 'Spot The Ego' . Pay special attention to use of punctuation and tone of expression. Try to guess what the person's facial expression behind the computer screen is like when he is writing it. Is the writer feeling interested in the topic of discussion, got a chip on his shoulder, trying to prove something, or just trying his genuine best to help others?

 

Personally I find it distasteful to talk down to others if clearly you have the same problem.

Hypocrisy does not have a high rate of success when you want to persuade others to see things as you do.

[3bob]

There is no amount of manipulative power at any level of the mind that exists in the universe that is enough to make anyone truly happy!!

 

Only the deepest purity of Love and Spirit are enough,

 

...and that is seeking itself.

 

Om

Edited January 27, 2010 by 3bob

[Guest paul walter]

Power is good. Abuse of power is bad. Take it from there. If you're going to get great power, get into a habit of not abusing the tiniest smallest bits thereof first -- everybody has some, even powerlessness can be used as a manipulative tool and amount to abuse of power, strangely enough --

so, train yourself to handle power by using it wisely and consciously with an eye on "am I abusing it by doing this?" --

this is the royal road to great power without power trips, The Way And Its Power (the correct translation of TTC, by the way) is not The Way And Its Powerlessness, contrary to what many people believe who have seen much power abuse and have grown suspicious of power as such. Power as such is not suspicious. Tao is powerful, not powerless...

...to be able to use power without abusing it is absolutely the heart of the matter. The cat's meow of tao.

 

Yes but Taomeow, even the use of the word 'power' has to be qualified in polite society. The power of tao is wholly unlike what most people have come to know power as. Its more like 'internal' power perhaps, as oppossed to 'externalised'. It is completely self-regulated as oppossed to needing any sort of validation through interaction (though of course it always interacts). While it doesn't cause 'harm' as such , one had better not think one can stop it since it is a force that follows rules, not human whims. The nature of 'Te' is I think not very understood since it has to be 'felt' to be understood properly, has to rise from a person to connect to the universe then you can feel the meaning of 'power' (through empowerment) and take your everchanging place in the scheme of tao. How does a socialised person relate to the true acquisition of power as a giving up of the selfs desire for power as armouring? Perhaps there is no use of power as such, only a harmonious understanding between 'used' and 'user'? If ANY of this makes sense do let me know. Paul.

[Guest paul walter]

So far the only benefits people have been listing is better health and being able to accept your current situation.....

 

.

 

Now I would like to change my situation, and I would like something beyond just "health and well being."

 

 

..Didn't you see the graph explaining my path? Sure, transcendence and freedom and stuff is all good and well, but I'd like to at least accumulate a few more material experiences before I start letting them all go. Can't let go of something you don't have

 

 

 

I'm not looking for an outlook. I'm not looking to physically be a bum (no offense to the tao bums ) but mentally be all "transcendent". I'm not looking to be in the same crappy situation as everyone else, but just feel good about it.

 

I'm looking to be able to TANGIBLY move from one tangible position (the one I am at now) to another TANGIBLE position... using non-tangible means

 

Again, all that higher stuff, "let go" "change outlook" blah blah blah, yeah, I get it, I've been working on that for a long time. I am not as stressed out as I used to be, am more healthy than I used to be, I get along well with others which is nice..... but I started this whole journey 4 years ago looking for psychic abilities, and all I'm getting is health stuff. Again, nothing inherently wrong with it buuuuuuut........ well let's just say every time someone comes on this forum and asks how to meditate or what to do, everyone asks:

 

"What's your goal?"

 

My goal is attaining psychic abilities. My practice then, should be geared toward that. If I'm not getting that after four years, then obviously I'm not doing the right practice, or I am doing the practice the wrong way. So.... yeah.

 

 

If you can't see the brick wall you've already crashed into then even though you've survived you may in the long term die of starvation from refusing to get out of the wreck. Paul.

[Taomeow]

Yes but Taomeow, even the use of the word 'power' has to be qualified in polite society. The power of tao is wholly unlike what most people have come to know power as. Its more like 'internal' power perhaps, as oppossed to 'externalised'. It is completely self-regulated as oppossed to needing any sort of validation through interaction (though of course it always interacts). While it doesn't cause 'harm' as such , one had better not think one can stop it since it is a force that follows rules, not human whims. The nature of 'Te' is I think not very understood since it has to be 'felt' to be understood properly, has to rise from a person to connect to the universe then you can feel the meaning of 'power' (through empowerment) and take your everchanging place in the scheme of tao. How does a socialised person relate to the true acquisition of power as a giving up of the selfs desire for power as armouring? Perhaps there is no use of power as such, only a harmonious understanding between 'used' and 'user'? If ANY of this makes sense do let me know. Paul.

 

It makes sense, Paul, in the light of what I mentioned in passing earlier -- that people are distrustful of power because almost all power they've ever seen was power in the process of being abused. My assertion was, however, that just because something can be abused doesn't mean it's something bad in and of itself. (Examples: food, water, shelter, safety, freedom, love. One may ask how anyone can possibly abuse water, of course. Well, believe it or not, Mongols in Genghis Khan's time had a strict religious law against "fouling water," and pretty much any use of water was considered abuse except for internal intake. Amazingly, they were one of the healthiest peoples to ever have lived, despite the fact that hygiene of any kind was against their religious law! Now what we have today is "fouled water" -- abused water -- pretty much everywhere. Who'd have guessed that it can be done... it can be done, and it's done. Alas.)

 

This is a huge subject for me, power and its use and its non-abuse, because this was the main lesson of the most deep- and far-reaching series of revelations I got in shamanic ceremonies in Peru -- "do not abuse power" was being shown to me from inside the perceptions of, alternatively, the powerful and the powerless, switching places many hundreds of times, putting me in the position of having and using power and then flipping it over and giving me the perceptions of the receiving end. This was going on on all levels, family to the cosmos, for some 48 hours almost nonstop, there were demo lessons with flipping sides and then empirical practices (again from the inside of any entity I was given a chance to explore) -- I was being tentatively given all kinds and all levels of power and She was test-running me to see what I would do with it. I failed a thousand times, even though I tried and tried and knew that it was the single most important thing to get right -- for all times and for all purposes, the single most important thing to get. Do not abuse power. (It's not as simple as being powerless... that's another thing I learned. No, you don't learn the main thing there is to learn by not learning. You can't learn to not fall off a bicycle by never learning to ride a bicycle. You can't learn to not abuse power by never having power. If you don't have it, you'll have to have it in a different space-time and still learn how to use it and not abuse it. There's no getting off this hook.) Then after some 48 hours, I succeeded... so now I know what power is for and why learning to handle it is something everyone will have to do even if it takes billions of years.

 

What is it for? Well... the power to be or not to be is one application... it's not something you can accomplish without power, believe it or not. Either one. I'm going to grind this soap box into the ground if I don't get off now. I have my mind's eye on another book... "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Power."

[三江源]

Everything Shakti Mama said is spot on.

 

 

Shakti Mama, I am kicking myself that you and Santi were just in London and I dodnt know and didnt get to come and play. BOOOO to my ( non) psychic powers for not telling me.

[3bob]

It makes sense, Paul, in the light of what I mentioned in passing earlier -- that people are distrustful of power because almost all power they've ever seen was power in the process of being abused. My assertion was, however, that just because something can be abused doesn't mean it's something bad in and of itself. (Examples: food, water, shelter, safety, freedom, love. One may ask how anyone can possibly abuse water, of course. Well, believe it or not, Mongols in Genghis Khan's time had a strict religious law against "fouling water," and pretty much any use of water was considered abuse except for internal intake. Amazingly, they were one of the healthiest peoples to ever have lived, despite the fact that hygiene of any kind was against their religious law! Now what we have today is "fouled water" -- abused water -- pretty much everywhere. Who'd have guessed that it can be done... it can be done, and it's done. Alas.)

 

This is a huge subject for me, power and its use and its non-abuse, because this was the main lesson of the most deep- and far-reaching series of revelations I got in shamanic ceremonies in Peru -- "do not abuse power" was being shown to me from inside the perceptions of, alternatively, the powerful and the powerless, switching places many hundreds of times, putting me in the position of having and using power and then flipping it over and giving me the perceptions of the receiving end. This was going on on all levels, family to the cosmos, for some 48 hours almost nonstop, there were demo lessons with flipping sides and then empirical practices (again from the inside of any entity I was given a chance to explore) -- I was being tentatively given all kinds and all levels of power and She was test-running me to see what I would do with it. I failed a thousand times, even though I tried and tried and knew that it was the single most important thing to get right -- for all times and for all purposes, the single most important thing to get. Do not abuse power. (It's not as simple as being powerless... that's another thing I learned. No, you don't learn the main thing there is to learn by not learning. You can't learn to not fall off a bicycle by never learning to ride a bicycle. You can't learn to not abuse power by never having power. If you don't have it, you'll have to have it in a different space-time and still learn how to use it and not abuse it. There's no getting off this hook.) Then after some 48 hours, I succeeded... so now I know what power is for and why learning to handle it is something everyone will have to do even if it takes billions of years.

 

What is it for? Well... the power to be or not to be is one application... it's not something you can accomplish without power, believe it or not. Either one. I'm going to grind this soap box into the ground if I don't get off now. I have my mind's eye on another book... "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Power."

 

Thanks very much for sharing that Taomeow... your hard earned insights from experience!

 

A moments reflection if you will,

The infinite Power of relentless truth and its inherent intelligence is the force that makes the correct choice or takes the correct action without failure, we only make preparation to meet it which entails both learning and unlearning and a measure of faith to match up in principle to it on our small scale; thus if we always pass that test then it can always use us in whatever scale is needed. In other words Spirit then has us - together with it as that which we really are - and not that we have it for any motives or purposes separate from what it IS.

 

Om