信心銘

[forestofclarity]

The Chinese is going left to right:

 

至道, usually translated as Great Tao, can this also be translated, Great Ancestor?

 

唯嫌揀擇

 

Does the 唯 modify one, two, or three charcters? Or stand on its own?

Edited January 28, 2010 by forestofemptiness

[Procurator]

The Chinese is going left to right:

 

至道, usually translated as Great Tao, can this also be translated, Great Ancestor?

 

there is no reason for it to be translated that way, however 至 is not the Great but rather the Ultimate.

[Procurator]

 

 

唯嫌揀擇

 

Does the 唯 modify one, two, or three charcters? Or stand on its own?

"it is only vexed by choosing and selecting" so just one.

 

here is a good translation

http://yogilin.o3.net/b5files/f0338.html

[Riyue]

The Chinese is going left to right:

 

至道, usually translated as Great Tao, can this also be translated, Great Ancestor?

 

 

for a translation of 至

you can go to

http://www.zdic.net/zd/zi/ZdicE8Zdic87ZdicB3.htm

use the buttons for getting:

the old version of zhi4

have a look at the picture depicting an arrow arriving at earth

---

the modern meanings of zhi4

here you have examples for the many meanings it can have...

----

the explanation given by shuowen

至 : 鳥飛从高下至地也。从一，一猶地也。象形。不，上去；而至，下來也。凡至之屬皆从至。，古文至。脂利切

---

 

道

 

http://www.zdic.net/zd/zi/ZdicE9Zdic81Zdic93.htm

---

translation:

http://www.awaken2life.org/Hsin%20Hsin%20Ming%20-%20Verses%20on%20the%20Perfect%20Mind.pdf

 

The Great Way is not difficult,

for those who have no preferences.

Let go of longing and aversion,

and it reveals itself

-

Here 至 in 至道無難 唯嫌揀擇 is not translated ...

Edited January 29, 2010 by Riyue

[forestofclarity]

TianShi--- thanks for your help.

 

If Ultimate Tao can also be translated as Ultimate Ancestor, then this explains something in the 100 character stele.

 

there is no reason for it to be translated that way, however 至 is not the Great but rather the Ultimate.

[Procurator]

TianShi--- thanks for your help.

 

If Ultimate Tao can also be translated as Ultimate Ancestor, then this explains something in the 100 character stele.

u welcome. what does it reveal?

[forestofclarity]

u welcome. what does it reveal?

 

There is a part about the clan ancestor.

Edited January 30, 2010 by forestofemptiness

[forestofclarity]

I am not happy with these translations--- I feel the English loses some of the nuances of the Chinese.

 

Here is how I "translate" (given I'm just a beginner with the internet) the first few lines:

 

Arriving at the Tao is not difficult

Just hate picking and choosing

(I'm still working on 3; something along the lines of "Cast away hate and love")

Then appears true enlightenment-- Then true enlightenment appears

 

One thing I find interesting is that in line three, the sun character is hidden, then by line four, it comes smashing out.

 

What is revealed in the characters, but not necessarily the English, is the idea that enlightenment is not gained, rather it is revealed--- it is the natural state.

 

The Great Way is not difficult,

for those who have no preferences.

Let go of longing and aversion,

and it reveals itself

-

Here 至 in 至道無難 唯嫌揀擇 is not translated ...

[Procurator]

There is a part about the clan ancestor.

 

and?

 

 

that text makes a fascinating topic for a discussion, except i am having a hard time discerning what you are getting at. if you meant it that way, its all good.)

[Procurator]

 

 

What is revealed in the characters, but not necessarily the English, is the idea that enlightenment is not gained, rather it is revealed--- it is the natural state.

a natural state of what?

and if it is so natural why it has to be revealed?

and..and..and what is the diff between gaining and revealing?

 

))

[forestofclarity]

Tian Shi,

 

The Ch'an masters of old warned their students against seeking a Buddha outside their own mind. If you want to find the answers to your questions, you have to look for them.

 

a natural state of what?

and if it is so natural why it has to be revealed?

and..and..and what is the diff between gaining and revealing?

 

))

[forestofclarity]

My take so far:

 

Arriving at the Tao is not difficult

Just become disgusted with picking and choosing

Only stop loving and hating

True realization appears

[Procurator]

well you posted this presumably seeking constructive critique..may be.

 

anyway its dead wrong. you start by mistranslating a set phrase "the ultimate dao" and it all goes downhill from there. advising the reader to "become disgusted" is as far from the text meaning as it can possibly get.

[Riyue]

My take so far:

 

Arriving at the Tao is not difficult

Just become disgusted with picking and choosing

Only stop loving and hating

True realization appears

 

in Huang Ting Jing you have this line

 

 

 

至道不煩不旁迕

zhi4 dao4 bu4 fan2 bu4 pang2 wu3

 

王羲之 黃庭經 line 27

上清派: 黃庭外景玉經 line 30:

 

 

M.Saso translates: When Dao is touched, there is no disturbance, no confusion

His commentary: From long ago until now, there has been only one pathway to the Tao: the way of peace and simplicity. The Tao is found without outwardly striving or inner confusion. Peace and simplicity must be found in both worlds, the invisible cosmos of the mind-spirit and the visible world touched by the body.

 

Wang Xi Zhi's Huang Ting Jing

[forestofclarity]

I see that Chan and Tao are VERY similar. I notice that the Xin Xin Ming, the 100 Character Stele, and the Zuowang lun (坐忘論) point in the same direction.

 

 

in Huang Ting Jing you have this line

 

 

 

至道不煩不旁迕

zhi4 dao4 bu4 fan2 bu4 pang2 wu3

 

王羲之 黃庭經 line 27

上清派: 黃庭外景玉經 line 30:

 

 

M.Saso translates: When Dao is touched, there is no disturbance, no confusion

His commentary: From long ago until now, there has been only one pathway to the Tao: the way of peace and simplicity. The Tao is found without outwardly striving or inner confusion. Peace and simplicity must be found in both worlds, the invisible cosmos of the mind-spirit and the visible world touched by the body.

 

Wang Xi Zhi's Huang Ting Jing