limitless

[3bob]

Lets say you have a transformer, (not unlike an electrical transformer) and on one side of it is an unlimited Ocean of pure, deathless, blissful energy along with all the laws and forms that that energy can take, from the "One" to "Ten thousand". And on the other side of that transfromer there is an Absolute, beyond any powers of mind. (since the mind of light is and can only exist on the Ocean side of the transformer) Now in between the Absoulte side of the tranformer and the Ocean side of the tranformer is an area that transformation can take place and flow in either direction... I'd call that area the "void" because it is not yet the Ocean and it is no longer the Absolute but an in between. (where things and also you disappear, which can be kind of disconcerting. So from my very limited experience I believe that until most of us are extremely old souls we will opt to remain on the Ocean side of the transformer for almost countless eons - although at some point choosing to enter all the way into the void and disappear/dissolve into that unknown and undergo a final transformation and merger to the Source side of the transformer. Btw, there are no disconnects anywhere at any time (or at any no time) on either side of the transformer or in the void, it's all a whole grand kit and caboodle.

 

Om

Edited January 31, 2010 by 3bob

[Marblehead]

Lets say you have a transformer,

 

Hi Bob,

 

You did pretty darn good with that. I need to go look at the definition of 'void'.

 

Later.

 

Peace & Love!

[Apech]

Hi Apepch7,

 

Neat.

 

However, hehehe, that is what I call trickery. What they did was to take the frequencies of what is thought to have been the energy escaping from the center point outward and convert those frequencies into audible frequencies. Kinda like listening to a radio station. The energy exists but if you do not have a radio capable of recieving that radio station's frequency and converting that energy into audible frequencies you will hear nothing.

 

There are some animals on this planet that generate sound waves that we humans cannot hear. So the people in the field build recievers and convert those frequencies into frequencies we can hear.

 

Peace & Love!

 

 

I know what you mean but actually if you read stuff on the early universe you will find that scientists talk about the role of mechanical vibration (which they call sound) in the formation of structure immediately (well first few million years) after the big bang. Sound is just compression waves in matter - it doesn't have to be in the audible range.

[Marblehead]

I know what you mean but actually if you read stuff on the early universe you will find that scientists talk about the role of mechanical vibration (which they call sound) in the formation of structure immediately (well first few million years) after the big bang. Sound is just compression waves in matter - it doesn't have to be in the audible range.

 

I know. Hehehe. I was just being difficult.

 

Peace & Love!

[Marblehead]

Okay. Void and Absolute Nothingness.

 

From what I can gather, void is equal to the word emptiness in Buddhist philosophy. If this is so then I think that, in Taoist terms, void could be called the state of 'wu'.

 

The pure state of wu is total disattachment, including disattachment from the body. Now, if we are disattached from our body it pretty much means that we have died. But we would still be within the limits of Tao. This is because Tao is all things and all non-things. All the energies of what we were still exist - its just that they (the energies) are not all in the same place. We are scattered. Hehehe.

 

Now, this non-thing that we (our energy) have become is not a thing in itself because 'we' no longer exist. But the energy remains. (At this point all Buddhists have the opportunity to reincarnate.) They have entered the void which is the transition point from one manifestation to the next as in the "Book of the Dead".

 

However, all remains within the realm of Tao. Beyond the realm of Tao is Absolutele Nothingness. We cannot go there because if we go there it will become within the realm of Tao.

 

So from what I see 'void' would be no-thingness, a transition point whereas Absolute Nothingness is not-no-thingness. Impossible to describe because it does not have any atributes in order to compare it with anything else. It is beyond time and space.

 

Peace & Love!

[Tao99]

Edited July 10, 2010 by Tao99

[Apech]

tao

-wu

----

you

 

 

tao

-you

----

wu

 

 

wu

+you

----

tao

 

 

 

not wu

+ not you

--------

not tao = Absolute Nothing = the Mysterium

 

 

Just thinking out loud. Wu is non-things (void) and you is things. tao is the flow of everything, all things and non-things

 

Not sure what 'not tao' means.

 

Absolute nothing = absolute no-thing , things are finite , no-things are infinite. Things are named, no-things are nameless and the Tao is beyond both.

[Tao99]

Edited July 10, 2010 by Tao99

[Apech]

I don't know. Is that a Buddhist rendition of terms? It seems in your way I would need to understand:

1. things (you), that are named,

2. non-things (wu), that are nameless (is this the same as void?), and

3. Tao, which is beyond both of them.

 

Is that right?

 

Hi

 

No I wasn't being Buddhist. A thing is an object (maybe an abstract one a 'think' also ? ha ha) and as such is finite and named. Yes I think the nameless is void. You could say Tao is nameless I suppose because:

 

The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao.

The name that can be named is not the eternal name.

The nameless is the beginning of heaven and Earth.

The named is the mother of the ten thousand things.

 

but I prefer to think that once you have named things - then you have that which is nameless and I am not sure if that is the the same as 'that which cannot be named' = Tao.

 

If you think of sets then you could draw a circle within which is all the named = 10,000 things, that which is outside the circle is the nameless.

 

The Tao is the reality beyond the definitions of circles/things/names.????????

 

Just my thoughts.

[rex]

Space

[Marblehead]

Spaced out!

 

Peace & Love!

[Aetherous]

The only thing that's limitless is garbuock.

[shaolin]

Thanks for taking the time to explain. Its starting to get deeper and deeper!

 

When one theory runs in to another then we go on a mind trip, thats why I try to avoid theories because they are unproven ideas. We can talk about the existance of something that may or may not exist rather than what we know actually exists in reality. I know Im using unqualified loaded words like "reality" but you know what I mean.

 

I'd like to find an actual thing that exists that does not have a beginning, end, height , weight, width or is measurable or dependent on anyithing else.

Just one of these qualities is a limitation.

 

Thats why if the world is made up of limited things and the universe contains these limited things as part of it, then it is limited. Even if only in one small way, but it is limited in many more ways than that. The absence of oxygen or gravity is also a limitation. I understand , as we have already seen in previous posts , that something unlimited is beyond human comprehension, but we should still be able to be sure of its existance if it really exists. Sure meaning knowing rationally and without doubt, that it is actually there. At least by its attributes which should be exclusive to it and not to anything else.

 

Im gonna take it easy, I feel insanity creeping in!

[3bob]

Hi Bob,

 

You did pretty darn good with that. I need to go look at the definition of 'void'.

 

Later.

 

Peace & Love!

 

Hi Marblehead, thank you,

Imo terms such as these can not exactly be cross-correlated in meaning because definitions more or less depend on the tradition and or school we associate with or are wired into - thus I don't think we can really find or have complete agreement about such terms unless we agree to agree on the meanings that the terms point to as if we were all in one school or traditon and speaking the same language.(so to speak) Such would be nice as far as reducing arguments that arise along these lines but it would also be an attempt to reduce or deny aspects of the wonderful and incredible diversity arising out of the Ocean side of pure energy!

 

Shall we enjoy the swim...

Edited January 31, 2010 by 3bob

[rex]

Spaced out!

 

Peace & Love!

No not, "Spaced Out!"

 

"Limitless Space", it's a term used in various cosmologies.

[Athanor]

Human stupidity is limitless

[OneSeeker]

Thanks for taking the time to explain. Its starting to get deeper and deeper!

 

When one theory runs in to another then we go on a mind trip, thats why I try to avoid theories because they are unproven ideas. We can talk about the existance of something that may or may not exist rather than what we know actually exists in reality. I know Im using unqualified loaded words like "reality" but you know what I mean.

 

I'd like to find an actual thing that exists that does not have a beginning, end, height , weight, width or is measurable or dependent on anyithing else.

 

(snip)

 

Im gonna take it easy, I feel insanity creeping in!

 

Nine out of 10 mystic masters agree:

 

To know the indescribable limitlessness that gives birth to all things, turn inward, stop thoughts, dwell in the clarity and stillness of no mind, and It will be there. This is direct knowing, true knowing, not the half-true shadow-knowing of rationality.

 

Now, do I know this is true? No. But the brief flashes of it I've seen once or twice are enough to keep me trying.

[awake]

from my experience of it, it is like the tiniest thing possible, which is everywhere.

[Marblehead]

I'd like to find an actual thing that exists that does not have a beginning, end, height , weight, width or is measurable or dependent on anyithing else.

Just one of these qualities is a limitation.

 

Im gonna take it easy, I feel insanity creeping in!

 

Well, in my opinion, the only thing (which is a non-thing) that meets your criteria is Tao. (If we do not want to consider Absolute Nothingness, which, of course, is also a non-thing.)

 

Yeah, insanity does creep in when we start thinking too much.

 

That was the cause of my "Spaced Out!" comment yesterday.

 

Peace & Love!

[Marblehead]

Such would be nice as far as reducing arguments that arise along these lines but it would also be an attempt to reduce or deny aspects of the wonderful and incredible diversity arising out of the Ocean side of pure energy!

 

Shall we enjoy the swim...

 

Agree. This is the base of this entire thread. When we limit anything (as we are trying to do here with words) we destroy its full essence and potential.

 

Yes, the water's fine. Let's continue swimming.

 

Peace & Love!

[Marblehead]

No not, "Spaced Out!"

 

"Limitless Space", it's a term used in various cosmologies.

 

 

Yes, if we travel in one direction and reach the outer-most object and then continue to travel we will be travelling in limitless space.

 

But I think that is a contradiction although I can't say why at this point in time.

 

Peace & Love!

[Marblehead]

Human stupidity is limitless

 

Hehehe. I am very tempted to agree with you on this one.

 

Like I just recently read last year's Darwin Awards. Told the story of a robber who was conducting a hold-up. Pulled the trigger of his hand gun and nothing happened. So he looked down the barrel of the weapon and pulled the trigger again. It worked the second time.

 

Peace & Love!

[Marblehead]

Nine out of 10 mystic masters agree:

 

To know the indescribable limitlessness that gives birth to all things, turn inward, stop thoughts, dwell in the clarity and stillness of no mind, and It will be there. This is direct knowing, true knowing, not the half-true shadow-knowing of rationality.

 

Now, do I know this is true? No. But the brief flashes of it I've seen once or twice are enough to keep me trying.

 

I think you are on the proper path.

 

Peace & Love!

[Marblehead]

from my experience of it, it is like the tiniest thing possible, which is everywhere.

 

Yeah. Kinda' like numbers. Think of the smallest we can think of and there is always one smaller and think of the largest and there is always one larger.

 

Peace & Love!

[shaolin]

very true 3bob, thats why I defined limitless as anything with a height, width, weight, beginning, end or is measurable or dependent on something.

 

From this point we can move forward by applying these attributes to see if such a thing exists. I know it may seem "dry" and restrictive, but without that we will end up in poetry, when we really want to find if such a thing exists.

 

When we clear the fog and understand what these words we use really mean, we can find that they are words describing something that is unreal or non existant.

 

We want to find an actual thing that does not have even a single limiting attribute. With such a topic its very easy to get caught up on words , I think its unavoidable.