Amazing diagnosis of TCM doctor

[z00se]

This doctor i've been seeing here in Tianjin... he is amazing.

 

I've SEEN him tell patients about the following things without them giving him any information about it. Only feeling the pulse. He assures me he doesn't 'see' anything else, only uses the pulse. He works in many small clinics and has no contact with any previous medical histories of the people. Theres a huge line waiting to go see this guy. He's an expert at helping people have a baby. He said he will try teach me after chinese new year which i'm pretty excited about, but i'm sure it will be hard since my chinese is pretty crappy and my wife can't translate every day.

 

He knew a lady had just eaten a sweet potato.

Somebody ate too many sunflower seeds - he loved them.

Knows if your hungry or not

knows blood sugar level

That a lady had a real metal key inside her belly

That a woman had a misscarage, how long it was into pregnancy and that it was due to a chromozone issue.

Knew that a lady had a cancer removed and the exact size of it.

Asked me if i got a run in the morning, i said no? then he said soon you will and so i did.

Knew that a lady had semen still inside her body.

Knows when sperm and egg have connected

Knows when the sperm/egg has stuck on the wall of the womb

When someone is pregnant.

After a couple of big nights on the booze he said my sperm had no tails haha

He knows if your baby will be a boy or a girl just according to the egg and it's position... nothing to do with the sperm

He can try to alter things so you can have a boy if u want or a girl if you want.

A girl came in she couldn't walk had to be carried by 2 people. After 1 month of eating herbs she can walk around and play normally. (the girl's sister said it was true)

He knew someone had cancer (they already knew but they didn't tell the doctor) and her referred them to a big hospital.

Knew a pregnant girl had a sore rib, and said it was because the baby's leg was pressing against it.

 

He gives qigong healings but these don't just magically fix people though.

 

He's done many more but i can't remember, and these are only things that i've seen while i've been there.

 

Thing is in china theres no private room and people just line up behind you in the doctors so anything said is heard by the whole line. haha

 

I mean i can't understand how he can do it. It seems impossible to my logical mind but there i see it in front of my eyes. Anyone seen anything like this before?

 

Edited because my missus just came back from the doctor with a couple of extra storys heheh.

Edited January 31, 2010 by z00se

[Eternal_Student]

This doctor i've been seeing here in Tianjin... he is amazing.

 

I've SEEN him tell patients about the following things without them giving him any information about it. Only feeling the pulse. He assures me he doesn't 'see' anything else, only uses the pulse. He works in many small clinics and has no contact with any previous medical histories of the people. Theres a huge line waiting to go see this guy. He's an expert at helping people have a baby. He said he will try teach me after chinese new year which i'm pretty excited about, but i'm sure it will be hard since my chinese is pretty crappy and my wife can't translate every day.

 

YES!!! Great stories!

Why do you think I spent nearly 105,000 dollars to learn the medicine. And that's why Chiro's and MD's should NOT do acupuncture after a 200 hour certification. I have a FOUR year Master's degree and I am still learning.

 

Pulse taking is an art and a science.

 

I have: predicted baby's sex, felt the iron levels in blood, know when and how much a person has eaten, felt prostate issues, detected cancer in my patient's colon, know when a person has had an argument in the last 24 hours, can differentiate between an ex smoker and current smoker or child of a smoker, can tell you how you dream and what about, felt genetic heart valve issues, felt what type of relationship a person is in energetically and emotionally, detected an aortic aneurysm, can tell when you've last had sex, nailed a person on stimulant use, drug use and abuse, etc...

 

 

And I am just a beginner.

 

I have been around Master pulse takers who can tell you some even more unbelievable things!

 

[tyler zambori]

I reckon I won't go to an acupunturist then...unless I am

having a health diagnosis problem.

 

It's a little too Sherlock for me .

[soaring crane]

Wonderful Post, thank you!

 

Yes, please add to the list when you can...

[David Yeh]

Fascinating. I can do hints of that but nothing near that level of accuracy, z00se. How long does this doctor take the pulse, and how does he do it (both sides at once, one at a time, etc?). Would love to know more details.

 

Eternal_Student, who did you study from?

 

 

 

David

[Eternal_Student]

Fascinating. I can do hints of that but nothing near that level of accuracy, z00se. How long does this doctor take the pulse, and how does he do it (both sides at once, one at a time, etc?). Would love to know more details.

 

Eternal_Student, who did you study from?

 

 

 

David

 

 

My degree is from Southwest Acupuncture College.

I have a couple main teachers, but one of whom is a founder of the NQA. I don't like to name drop...

 

You learn the basics from a book, but after that, you need serious instruction and time.

Its the HARDEST part of Chinese medicine, next to herbal prescribing.

 

I had a teacher who could tell you your weekly qi report, both week past and week coming. She could also see into your general life for about 10 years to come. Predictions she made 5 years ago have all come true for me...

[orb]

This doctor i've been seeing here in Tianjin... he is amazing.

 

 

I met a tibetan doctor in US and he checked my urine and also my pulse on both hands in a that looked like he was playing the pipe with his fingers. After 5 min of checking my pulse he was able to give me an exact diagnosis like the traditional american doctors plus some extra details and explanations that helped a lot. I need to mention that the regular doctors withdrew a lot of blood and I had to wait for 2 weeks for the results to come back from the lab, while the tibetan doctor told me all that and more after only 10 min without using any machines or chemsitry etc.....

[David Yeh]

I have a couple main teachers, but one of whom is a founder of the NQA. I don't like to name drop...

 

Fair enough. I just wondered what system(s) you studied.

[Eternal_Student]

Fair enough. I just wondered what system(s) you studied.

 

 

Five Element Acupuncture.

Traditional Chinese Medicine.

Esoteric Acupuncture.

Neuro-qi gong emission.

Scalp Acupuncture for stroke.

 

Medical qi gong.

Endocrine qi gong.

Taoist internal alchemy.

 

Etc.

 

I've been lucky with some great teachers.

 

[z00se]

How long does this doctor take the pulse, and how does he do it (both sides at once, one at a time, etc?). Would love to know more details.

 

 

David

 

The guy does each arm, 1 at a time, 3 fingers accross the wrist for about 10 seconds or so each. I also saw him take the pulse of some girl on the wrist but on the side of it with the hand in a verticle position and his fingers just down below her thumb.

 

I've seen him do a bit of accupuncture and normally puts several needles into the head.

 

I mean the sweet potato thing was his 3rd guess. He said have you eaten (some vege) they said no... he thought for a sec and said (some vege) she said no..? then he goes ah, yes sweet potato! and she said yes, only 1 bite. Like WTF?! So it's not like he even got a smell of sweet potato on her breath or anything haha.

 

Eternal Student: Is it some kind of mathematical equation that you can use to find out the diagnosis from the pulse? Like could it be computerized? First finger qualities, 2nd finger qualities and each finger represents different possible diagnosises? Or is it just a general "feeling" you get overall that allows you do diagnose?

[David Yeh]

Eternal_Student, I was more asking specifically about pulse diagnosis systems you've learned.

 

I mean the sweet potato thing was his 3rd guess. He said have you eaten (some vege) they said no... he thought for a sec and said (some vege) she said no..? then he goes ah, yes sweet potato! and she said yes, only 1 bite. Like WTF?! So it's not like he even got a smell of sweet potato on her breath or anything haha.

 

z00se, I'd be interested in more details/stories on each of those things you've described. I honestly could not figure out how he could tell how a lady had eaten a sweet potato, however, now I can see that he may have felt something on the pulse describing a category, and maybe he was throwing out examples of that food category to see which one stuck.

 

The way I learned pulse diagnosis was according to variables such as position (placement on the wrist), depth (how deep you push), and quality (the type of sensation). Different positions correlate to different organs or functions in the body, and different qualities correlate to different diagnoses or pathological functions.

 

I've heard of people trying to computerize it, but I doubt it can be done with much refinement. Still, it can be as simple a matter as feeling sensations at particular positions and then determining the diagnosis from what you've been taught the sensation at that position means.

 

My favorite story is of pulse diagnostician John Shen feeling a patient's pulse, then pulling aside his two observers (one of which was his longtime student Leon Hammer) and correctly stating that this person had killed someone. Not only that, but correctly predicted the year!

 

Anyway, z00se, I'd especially like to know the story of what happened when you observed these! If you feel like telling:

 

That a lady had a real metal key inside her belly

That a woman had a misscarage, how long it was into pregnancy and that it was due to a chromozone issue.

Knew that a lady had a cancer removed and the exact size of it.

Knew that a lady had semen still inside her body.

Knows when sperm and egg have connected

Knows when the sperm/egg has stuck on the wall of the womb

Knew a pregnant girl had a sore rib, and said it was because the baby's leg was pressing against it.

[z00se]

 

Anyway, z00se, I'd especially like to know the story of what happened when you observed these! If you feel like telling:

 

In every case he prescribes herbs (pretty expensive mind you) which you need to boil up or can pay the pharmacy to boil for you. Last 2 times i've been he hasn't given me any herbs though because i've been fine. Cost to see him is only about 8rmb and after insurance it ends up only being 2rmb. Herbs are about 180rmb for 1 weeks worth. He wanted a photo with me because i'm his first westerner to deal with and he's got the photo up in his practice now hehe.

 

That a lady had a real metal key inside her belly.

He said she had a key in her belly surprised. She said yes, she had tried to kill herself and swallowed a key or something. It was still in her gut from about 5 years ago.

 

That a woman had a misscarage, how long it was into pregnancy and that it was due to a chromozone issue.

My wife's friend. She came there on my wifes advice and didn't tell her about her misscarage and yes he knew after a quick pulse check.

 

Knew that a lady had a cancer removed and the exact size of it.

My wife's friends mum. Didn't tell him anything that was wrong and he just told her this exactely.

 

Knew that a lady had semen still inside her body.

Said straight up, u have it in you. Then he said after he was considering if it was vaginal fluid or semen but he rekons jingzi - sperm. asked the lady have you been with your husband last night and she shyly admitted it infront of the line of people haha.

 

Knows when sperm and egg have connected

Knows when the sperm/egg has stuck on the wall of the womb

 

Knew a pregnant girl had a sore rib, and said it was because the baby's leg was pressing against it.

The lady didn't say anything, he just asked her if she felt sore and pointed where, and she said yes. He said it was from the baby's leg. Don't know what he said about fixing it.

 

I can't here all the conversations directly, only what gets translated to me. But it's case after case that he does amazing things with. He said after one month of being with him i should learn quiet a bit, after 1 year i would be as good as him. I'm not going to be staying here a year but from what he is saying if ur getting taught properly it shouldn't be a long time to learn. He doesn't brag about his abilities or anything, and he only works in small hospitals not the big ones. He just speaks about it matter of factly like there is nothing so special about what he does. It just seems amazing to me because i can't understand it so it seems magical.

 

Still it is chinese medicine though. It is more more slow working than western medicine. Some people take herbs for a year and are still not fully cured. But some are fixed much more quickly. I think the main thing is that people progressivly improve faster than without the herbs, and definately don't decline in their health.

[everseeking]

"My favorite story is of pulse diagnostician John Shen feeling a patient's pulse, then pulling aside his two observers (one of which was his longtime student Leon Hammer) and correctly stating that this person had killed someone. Not only that, but correctly predicted the year!"

 

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT!?!?!?!

 

This is completely new to me, the idea that stuff besides what I thought tcm diagnosis consisted of--like, yin deficincy, and so on.

 

could you please share more about this story?

 

 

Amazing.

 

 

thanks-

 

Nathan

[Baguakid]

I spent nearly 105,000 dollars to learn the medicine.

 

Wow.... When I had the chance to learn the total cost was around 12k for a 3 year program. That was in the late 80s but unfortunately I wasn't able to start.

 

I can't believe how much people pay today for TCM education.

[Eternal_Student]

Wow.... When I had the chance to learn the total cost was around 12k for a 3 year program. That was in the late 80s but unfortunately I wasn't able to start.

 

I can't believe how much people pay today for TCM education.

 

 

I know huh. Four years. Its a 4000 credit hour education. Its med school. Full time, 3 trimesters a year. Break in between each trimester. Below an 80% and you fail. Fail 2 classes and your out. People don't get how hard the school is. One formula class has about 120 formulas in it. Each formula has 5-12 herbs contained within it. And then you have to know it in Chinese and English plus the chemical actions of each herb.

 

Our national boards have 5 exams on them. One of which is a Western medical exam where the questions can be from essentially ANY western symptom, problem, issue, cranial nerve or diagnosis. We have to pass their medicine as well.

 

Its around 80,000 for the education. You just have to take out extra loans because you essentially can't work during the school since its 9-9pm daily, depending on clinic rotations.

 

I actually did it in 3 years and a semester.

 

My pulse diagnosis is Japanese actually.

 

Each position represents a depth of structure in the body. 3rd position being the deepest qi in the system. 2nd position is the middle qi of the body while the first is the lightest and highest qi in the system. Then there are organs associated with each position and depth. 3rd position deep is the kidney yin on the left side of the body. 3rd position deep on the right is kidney yang...

 

Its very complicated and you must have proper training to be able to practice.

You have to have a minimum of 3000 hours and 1,500 of those come from clinic time to even sit for the exam.

 

[Ya Mu]

This doctor i've been seeing here in Tianjin... he is amazing.

 

I've SEEN him tell patients about the following things without them giving him any information about it. Only feeling the pulse. He assures me he doesn't 'see' anything else, only uses the pulse. He works in many small clinics and has no contact with any previous medical histories of the people. Theres a huge line waiting to go see this guy. He's an expert at helping people have a baby. He said he will try teach me after chinese new year which i'm pretty excited about, but i'm sure it will be hard since my chinese is pretty crappy and my wife can't translate every day.

 

He knew a lady had just eaten a sweet potato.

Somebody ate too many sunflower seeds - he loved them.

Knows if your hungry or not

knows blood sugar level

That a lady had a real metal key inside her belly

That a woman had a misscarage, how long it was into pregnancy and that it was due to a chromozone issue.

Knew that a lady had a cancer removed and the exact size of it.

Asked me if i got a run in the morning, i said no? then he said soon you will and so i did.

Knew that a lady had semen still inside her body.

Knows when sperm and egg have connected

Knows when the sperm/egg has stuck on the wall of the womb

When someone is pregnant.

After a couple of big nights on the booze he said my sperm had no tails haha

He knows if your baby will be a boy or a girl just according to the egg and it's position... nothing to do with the sperm

He can try to alter things so you can have a boy if u want or a girl if you want.

A girl came in she couldn't walk had to be carried by 2 people. After 1 month of eating herbs she can walk around and play normally. (the girl's sister said it was true)

He knew someone had cancer (they already knew but they didn't tell the doctor) and her referred them to a big hospital.

Knew a pregnant girl had a sore rib, and said it was because the baby's leg was pressing against it.

 

He gives qigong healings but these don't just magically fix people though.

 

He's done many more but i can't remember, and these are only things that i've seen while i've been there.

 

Thing is in china theres no private room and people just line up behind you in the doctors so anything said is heard by the whole line. haha

 

I mean i can't understand how he can do it. It seems impossible to my logical mind but there i see it in front of my eyes. Anyone seen anything like this before?

 

Edited because my missus just came back from the doctor with a couple of extra storys heheh.

 

Cool. But it doesn't have to be pulse taking. A doctor can get info many ways; the Taoist medicine I practice and teach uses the neurological(neuro-energy)system.

 

One of my teachers had a lady come in and he started palpating nerve synapse for about 1-2 minutes before he rolled his chair to his desk and made 2 phone calls. One to a neuro-surgeon who he told to prep up and one to an ambulance. The neuro-surgeon called later in the day and said if she had of been 10 minutes later getting to the hospital she would be dead.

 

I have my moments as well and am continually having doctors call me up and asking me "How the hell did you know that?" Goes with the territory.

[David Yeh]

Cool. But it doesn't have to be pulse taking. A doctor can get info many ways; the Taoist medicine I practice and teach uses the neurological(neuro-energy)system.

 

Yes. Hope I can make it back to one of your seminars soon, Michael; I've gotten a lot out of the one I took, and I can see how you can develop the ability to "see" just by those practices.

 

 

"My favorite story is of pulse diagnostician John Shen feeling a patient's pulse, then pulling aside his two observers (one of which was his longtime student Leon Hammer) and correctly stating that this person had killed someone. Not only that, but correctly predicted the year!"

 

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT!?!?!?!

 

This is completely new to me, the idea that stuff besides what I thought tcm diagnosis consisted of--like, yin deficincy, and so on.

 

could you please share more about this story?

 

 

Amazing.

 

Okay, had to dig this out of my notes.

 

According to Dr. Hammer, it was actually the first time he saw Dr. Shen. He came out to a small town where Dr. Hammer lived and he was working with another doctor. Finally let him sit in with him one day. After a brief examination, he privately told Dr. Hammer and the other doctor that the man had killed someone in 1943 and also got syphilis that year.

 

They went back and questioned the man and confirmed that he'd been involved in a battle in North Africa between the Vichy French and Free French.

 

Evidently there was a large amount of a quality which in this pulse system is called Rough Vibration, which is associated with shock, trauma, and fear, sometimes fear associated with guilt.

 

Possibly determining the timing of the event had something to do with face diagnosis, though, too.

 

Understandably, this was the event that made Dr. Hammer decide to study under John Shen.

 

I also heard another story where Dr. Shen examined someone who had headaches and within minutes of seeing her said that it was because she'd had head trauma at age 10, or something like that. Kinda crazy.

 

 

 

I can't here all the conversations directly, only what gets translated to me. But it's case after case that he does amazing things with. He said after one month of being with him i should learn quiet a bit, after 1 year i would be as good as him. I'm not going to be staying here a year but from what he is saying if ur getting taught properly it shouldn't be a long time to learn. He doesn't brag about his abilities or anything, and he only works in small hospitals not the big ones. He just speaks about it matter of factly like there is nothing so special about what he does. It just seems amazing to me because i can't understand it so it seems magical.

 

Thanks for the details. That is fascinating.

 

If you learn from him and get as good as him, I want to come learn from you! That sounds like a fantastic opportunity.

Edited February 1, 2010 by David Yeh

[EagleShen]

I did a little study with Professor Wong here in Australia, he'd tell these kind of things by just looking at someone... it's weird having someone see through you. I guess that's the next level?

 

Interesting to note that pulse diagnosis used to be a part of the western tradition, it was one of the primary diagnosis techniques in ancient Greece apparently.

[moxi]

this is a great post. thanks.

[Gerard]

This doctor i've been seeing here in Tianjin... he is amazing...

 

So many amazing things in mother China. Let me advice you to stay in Asia as long as you can searching, exploring and learning as much spiritual and allied practices as you can. Remember every lifetime is a miracle.

 

Btw, your thread proves that we are a mirror of the Universe.

[Taoist81]

Wow.... When I had the chance to learn the total cost was around 12k for a 3 year program. That was in the late 80s but unfortunately I wasn't able to start.

 

I can't believe how much people pay today for TCM education.

 

The price listed above is also a California school. It seems that everything is overpriced there. Most schools (with an equivilant program) are closer to the $40-50,000 range. Like most post-graduate level schools now.

[Ya Mu]

Yes. Hope I can make it back to one of your seminars soon, Michael; I've gotten a lot out of the one I took, and I can see how you can develop the ability to "see" just by those practices....

 

You are a good TCM doctor and you are always welcome at my workshops.

[Pero]

Eternal Student: Is it some kind of mathematical equation that you can use to find out the diagnosis from the pulse? Like could it be computerized? First finger qualities, 2nd finger qualities and each finger represents different possible diagnosises? Or is it just a general "feeling" you get overall that allows you do diagnose?

 

My friend/teacher invented a pulse machine many years back, it displays the pulse in "graphs" which then have to be interpreted (or at least that's how I understand it). The program also gives the strength/health of the organ in percentages as well as overall strength. It's very expensive though and you can only get it in Russia.

Interesting topic otherwise, my friend also told me that through pulse it's possible to detect where a blockage is in the channel or organ and even effect them. I thought that was cool but what you describe here is amazing.

Edited February 1, 2010 by Pero

[Taomeow]

My friend/teacher invented a pulse machine many years back, it displays the pulse in "graphs" which then have to be interpreted (or at least that's how I understand it). The program also gives the strength/health of the organ in percentages as well as overall strength. It's very expensive though and you can only get it in Russia.

Interesting topic otherwise, my friend also told me that through pulse it's possible to detect where a blockage is in the channel or organ and even effect them. I thought that was cool but what you describe here is amazing.

 

I worked with a similar machine, my business partner at the time was selling it to TCM practitioners and taught me while at it. It used the Japanese system of pulse taking, Ryodoraku. Work done in Japan, Germany and Russia went into its design. It was very amazing in the skilled hands. You had to understand what you're looking at of course, and interpret it correctly. But it did indeed "see" things that blew your mind. My skeptical husband "challenged" my partner to find out what happened to him a year before. She said (upon consulting the graph built by the machine), you were hiking or climbing, lost your footing, landed on your right knee, but now the knee doesn't bother you as much as the heel, so you don't think it's related, but it is. Everything absolutely true. I treated his knee at the time of the accident, but he didn't do the two weeks I wanted and stopped after a few days once the pain was gone, but then almost a year later his heel started aching... which he attributed to playing tennis and didn't connect with the earlier trauma...

 

The machine "knew" the past and the future, because everything that happens leaves its mark -- and what you see "right now" is a block of past-present-future, not a mere "present" disconnected from "way back when" and "where it's headed." Everything is connected, you can't extract a "pure present moment" out of all the "impure past moments" because the "present" IS the "past" and it's aimed at a particular "future" with the certainty of a bullet in flight toward a particular spot it will hit -- THAT spot, and no other, unless the wind changes enough to throw it off. I wish every "live in the moment" aficionado got acquainted with a doctor like the one described in this thread, or at least the machine... this would blow the cover off this particularly popular in-the-head philosophy quite promptly.

[Guest paul walter]

hey Moxi--is your avatar someone practising Pulse Diagnosis Strengthening Gong?

Edited February 2, 2010 by paul walter