Beginner question on Tan Tien breathing

[tyler zambori]

hi,

 

My understanding is that, after you touch the tongue to the roof of the mouth,

You then breathe down to the Tan Tien, in stages, making sure to feel the breath

all the way.

 

Ok but, breathing stops at the bottom of the lungs. I can't breathe down to

the Tan Tien because my lungs don't go down that far!

 

So how do you really do this? Think of the Tan Tien while breathing in?

Visualize a column of air going down to the Tan Tien? What!?

 

Thanks!

 

Tyler

[Guest sykkelpump]

hi,

 

My understanding is that, after you touch the tongue to the roof of the mouth,

You then breathe down to the Tan Tien, in stages, making sure to feel the breath

all the way.

 

Ok but, breathing stops at the bottom of the lungs. I can't breathe down to

the Tan Tien because my lungs don't go down that far!

 

So how do you really do this? Think of the Tan Tien while breathing in?

Visualize a column of air going down to the Tan Tien? What!?

 

Thanks!

 

Tyler

 

 

when you inhale,try to feel the air coming down to dan tien,you dont have to feel every millimeter of the way down,just focus on trying to feel the air reaching the dan tien.If this method work or not depends on how open your energy channels are.many people never learn this and waste years of practice on this instead of learning meditation.

you can also use many other tricks helping you do dan tien breathing,for example visualize air as color or particles and then visualize the air going into the body and down to dan tien on inhale and reverse on exhale.you should also try to use slow relaxed natural breathing.

you know you are doing it right when you feel tingling or warmh in dantien.

if you cant learn this I would recomand anapanasati.which is breathing meditation,in this meditation dan tien breathing and other things happens natural,but you do NOT focus on trying to making it happen.

http://www.dhammasukha.org/Study/Books/Pdf/The%20Anapanasati%20Sutta%202.pdf

[tyler zambori]

Oh dear, I'd rather stick with the Tan Tien breathing....

 

If I can just visualize colors or particles that would be fine.

The slow relaxed breathing is quite do-able.

 

I suppose there could be air in the body, but it wouldn't be

*breath.* That comes in through the lungs. And only enters

the rest of the body through the blood!

 

Thanks, I will try that. Or I guess visualizing air

going down to the TT would be good too, if just colors can

work.

[Guest sykkelpump]

there is also this one,I know peolpe who used this to learn it.

you wisualize a little light ball inside you at dan tien.when you inhale the ball goes up to throat area,and on the exhale it sinks bak to dan tien.repeat

ps,the meditation i showed link is actually VERY easy,just seems complicated at first sight

Edited February 2, 2010 by sykkelpump

[Reader]

Oh dear, I'd rather stick with the Tan Tien breathing....

 

If so, I would like you to read this:

 

http://www.taoiststudy.com/content/mind-fasting-meditation-chuang-tzu

 

Also, check for posts by Dao Zhen on this forum.

[Sloppy Zhang]

All right, so I have found that really good dan tien breathing is a mixture of a few things, which you pretty much put into effect simultaneously:

 

1) Feel energy go down your throat past your lungs and into the dantien. You can start by feeling the air, but even more important is feeling the subtle energy that is carried by the air, and it's THAT which is drawn into the dantien.

 

2) Try feeling your dantien as a lung, as in, when you breath, focus on expanding the dantien and allowing air to flow into it (while again, feeling the energy from point 1)

 

3) Relax, and rather than "breathing air into you", relax, expand your lungs and your belly, and allow the air to come into you naturally. Things go where there is a void, and as your lungs expand, air rushes in to fill that space, it's how breathing works. Using your belly to breathe helps clear more space for your lungs to expand, thus getting you more air. So don't think so much about "drawing in breath", but on "allowing breath".

[erdweir]

you should look at "The Primordial Breath" volumes 1 and 2, published by original books. They contain texts from the Taoist canon that will answer your questions.

[tyler zambori]

Thank you all...I will try all these things, and do the forum search on

Dao Zhen.

 

I got "The Primordial Breath" in my amazon wish list , but volume 2

seems a bit rare and pricey.

 

Thank you....I think I am finally learning how to still the mind with

this.

[Trogdorf]

It helps me when I:

 

 

* Relax my whole body and mind before I start the breath (especially the belly area) (become Shoong).

 

* Draw the air in slowly, almost as if you are breathing through a straw.

 

* Focus exclusively on the Tan Tien area/ where you need the breath to go (feel it out).

 

* Don't force it! The more you do it, the more the Tan Tien area will expand in time. Take it slowly. It is hard at first but becomes easier later on.

 

 

* Then gently contract your stomach muscles from the lowest to highest when you expel the breath..

[soaring crane]

Hey there

 

There are a lot of ways to go about this, and I'll just add one small technique that's easy to repeat.

 

You do it standing, feet shoulder width, toes forward, knees loose and relaxed, sacrum and lumbar spine sunken and relaxed.

 

Lay the hands on top of one another deep down low on the abdomen, lower than the "official" location of the Dantian, your arms will be long, shoulders relaxed.

 

Relax.

 

Relax everything that has to do with normal breathing.

 

Relax the face - eyes, ears, nose, mouth, temples. Relax the the tongue and allow it to swell up a little so that it touches the roof of the mouth naturally (you don't have to force this and the jaw can remain soft and relaxed).

 

Relax the shoulders, allow them to sink forward a little.

 

Relax the chest and the diaphragm.

 

Relax the belly, let it sink, all tension should melt out of the belly, it'll feel heavy.

 

Feel the breath down there where your hands are. Just breath naturally without intentionally influencing the process.

 

Feel, feel, feel. Relax and feel.

 

Now, when you're ready (you decide when that is), start to coordinate a small expansion of the lower abdomen when you feel that the next inhalation is coming. Use the gentle abdominal expansion to do the work of the breath. All the air passages remain open, unhindered, and the lower abdomen does the breathing. Just like a bellows in the belly.

 

Let the air flow into and out of the nose, unless the nose is stopped up. If the nose is an obstacle, then open the mouth a little and just forget about it. "Work" in the lower abdomen. Enjoy the work.

 

When you're ready to exhale, draw the abdomen in and slightly up, "push" the old air gently upward through the air passageways.

 

Keep the transitions soft and natural, don't rush, don't anticipate.

 

Keep the thoughts in the lower abdomen. If they wander, don't react badly, don't get aggravated, just feel your hands on the belly again and remain in the present, the here and now.

 

And remember - when you breathe, literally every single cell in your body breathes with you. Thousands of billions of cells are there, everywhere from the tips of your fingers to the tips of your toes, actively doing on a micro scale exactly what you're doing - taking in new fresh Qi, and expelling the old. If it's easier to think of oxygen, then do that, it'll work better for you if it's less abstract. So, the statement that "breathing stops at the bottom of the lungs" is just not true. The truth is much bigger than that

 

Do this meditation for as long as you like, but when you're done, be sure to really stop the practice, move the hands up a little, to the real lower Dantian and hold them there without actually influence anything. A good final movement is to then bring one foot to the other, closing the stance and taking one big, really big breath and on the exhale separate the hands and take a step forward. Little rituals signifying the beginning and conclusion of your meditation are a good habit to get into.

 

Have fun

[joeblast]

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/12618-learning-to-breath/

 

*thumbsup*

[Trunk]

Ok but, breathing stops at the bottom of the lungs. I can't breathe down to

the Tan Tien because my lungs don't go down that far!

Yeah, but it feels like you can and that's good enough. You're drawing the chi from the air to different places and chi~air feel so similar that we talk about them as if they were the same thing.

 

p.s.

This gets more and more fun as you progress, like inhaling through the bottom of your feet!

[tyler zambori]

Thank you all! I will check out everything recommended here.

 

Oh so it's really CHI were' dealing with1 So why do people call it the breath???

 

Chi is easy...but I can't breathe down below the lungs. Ok then...

 

I am familiar with how chi feels, but am not yet used to trying to

do things with it, or direct it.

 

Can I do this dan tien breathing in sitting meditation?

[Birch]

Qi is NOT air. What is it? No idea, *energy*? But it keeps getting informed by every which way (some of which one might decide for oneself, but that's another topic best left IMO to some of the very experienced chi-master TTBs to explain;-) I'd hazard still that we feel "chi-effects" much more than chi. Anyway.

 

IMO (in my opinion) it would be helpful to throw away the idea that it is "air", because no-one can breathe anywhere apart from their lungs, right? No breathing through skin for example?

 

007's Goldfinger was against that! (if you don't know the movie, the villain painted a girl from head to toe with gold paint - which caused her death)

 

But maybe we can breathe through/with diaphragm, right - remember being a kid?? Having a pot belly?

 

However, *respiration* happens all over and in and out and back and forth in the body. Almost can't help itself sending atmospheric gases all over the place, in and out and rushing between cells and blood vessels, circulating...

[Aetherous]

But maybe we can breathe through/with diaphragm, right - remember being a kid?? Having a pot belly?

 

However, *respiration* happens all over and in and out and back and forth in the body. Almost can't help itself sending atmospheric gases all over the place, in and out and rushing between cells and blood vessels, circulating...

 

Yeah!

[Maddie]

I've taken up Dan Tien breathing again and after having done it a few weeks now notice this feeling like a golf ball there when I breathe. Is this normal and if so what does it mean?

[SAMANTABHADRA]

Just to tag onto this since this thread has been nudged... should one avoid Dan Tien breathing or sinking Qi to the Dan Tien when one is sick?  I have a cold right now - stuffy, runny nose, cough, etc.  Would Dan Tien breathing be good for my immune system or does it risk drawing pathogenic qi deeper into the system?  Thanks

 

Warm regards

[freeform]

33 minutes ago, SAMANTABHADRA said:

Just to tag onto this since this thread has been nudged... should one avoid Dan Tien breathing or sinking Qi to the Dan Tien when one is sick?  I have a cold right now - stuffy, runny nose, cough, etc.  Would Dan Tien breathing be good for my immune system or does it risk drawing pathogenic qi deeper into the system?  Thanks

 

Warm regards

Generally if you catch it early, before the sickness has settled in, it’s best to mobilise Qi (taiji, for instance, would be great - especially if your jin is mobile).

 

Once the sickness has settled in though, it’s best to just rest - otherwise, as you say, it can draw the illness deeper into the system, or simply stress your system when it’s already burdened.

 

Hope you start feeling better soon  

[SAMANTABHADRA]

Thanks, freeform.

[SAMANTABHADRA]

@freeform should I avoid Tai Ji in general too?  I'll probably spare myself the arduous standing nei gong practices but what about some song gong practice or form?

[freeform]

1 hour ago, SAMANTABHADRA said:

@freeform should I avoid Tai Ji in general too?  I'll probably spare myself the arduous standing nei gong practices but what about some song gong practice or form?

 

If you're not feeling too depleted, then sure.

 

If I'm ever unwell I do moving forms, but I kind of 'coast' on whatever level of skill I've developed - rather than 'work' on developing more skill. This way the form itself takes the lead, and I don't intervene, correct, refine or anything like that - just let it do its thing. This way it's not stressful or uncomfortable at all, but very pleasant and nourishing.