macrocosmic orbit

[Non]

I've read some people mentioning this exercise but have found differing explanations and exercises on the internet.

 

Which one is the real one? Who teaches it?

[z00se]

I've read some people mentioning this exercise but have found differing explanations and exercises on the internet.

 

Which one is the real one? Who teaches it?

 

You should think that you are lucky that you have found many different versions. Gives you a chance to try them all and see which one works best for you. After a while you'll realise it doesn't matter how you do it. Then later after you won't do it at all, it will do it's self and you'll be slowing it down by trying to do anything at all....

[soaring crane]

I've read some people mentioning this exercise but have found differing explanations and exercises on the internet.

 

Which one is the real one? Who teaches it?

 

Hey Non - there are a lot of ways to go about it, there is no "real one". Searches for the "real" anything always lead down blind alleys. I learned a complex system with one exercise per meridian, plus two opening exercises and a special conclusion. I looked around at youtube but didn't see anything similar. You know that it's essentially the flow of Qi through the 12 meridians, right?

 

There's a shorter, less "accurate" but imo more relaxing and really more effective way to do it, but still not something you can learn in a forum post. You basically breathe along the rough outline of the meridians - from the chest DOWN the inside of the arms, UP the back of the arms to the head, DOWN the back side of the body and legs to the feet, UP the front side of the legs and torso to the chest, etc... but you really have to have a good solid foundation in the meridian structure to understand what's going on and to find the real start and end points.

 

Also, WHOLE BODY BREATH is, imo, essential for this to really work.

 

Aha, I remembered something - when we learned this, we were first taught finger and foot breathing as a way of developing the whole body breath. That really is an easy way to do slide into it.

 

Commonly, you'd fist build up the Qi in the Lower Dantian, circulate it through the Small Circulation and then progress to the Grand Circulation. But that's just one variation on a large theme.

 

If you poke around the internet, look for "Meridian Qigong" as well - there are some videos at YouTube, but nothing like what I learned. The other name would be Grand Circulation like I wrote above.

 

Why are you looking into it? It's more a medical thing and not as "cosmic" as the small circulation, if that's what you're wondering. The MCO is the biggie, don't let the name fool ya

Edited February 8, 2010 by soaring crane

[Gerard]

IMA, Zhan Zhuang & Vipassana style walking meditation to name the ones I practice.

[Aetherous]

For information on MCO, check out Yang Jwing Ming. I have his small circulation DVD, and it contains pretty good info...although there wasn't enough emphasis on how the mind should lead the qi, and you shouldn't be pushing your sensations around and having the flow be jerky, etc...

[soaring crane]

For information on MCO, check out Yang Jwing Ming.

 

He's supposed to be bringing out a book specifically on the Macrocosmic Orbit which Non is asking about...

 

I checked back in to add that maybe what Non is really asking about is the 24-hour circulation, which is a related topic.

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest sykkelpump]

this is a good exercise for macro orbit,but its best to do all the falun dafa exercises in correct order

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OORiI-19Qtc

[jinjujitsu]

 

 

If you poke around the internet, look for "Meridian Qigong" as well - there are some videos at YouTube, but nothing like what I learned.

 

 

This question is for Dainin

 

I read your extremely helpful review on Amazon for Dr. Love's Meridian Qigong. Would you care to elaborate more on it? As it what it's purpose is, what the benefits have been for you and share some tips? Greatly appreciate your inputs.

[Birch]

I've heard/read the "real" MCO is when you have built up "enough" dantien through various means that will concentrate qi there, that it will then "naturally" spill over into MCO. Traditionally, from what I have understood = up back channel, over the top of the head - tongue to roof of mouth - and then down front channel.

 

I have come to consider that pretty much ANY technique to reduce "head-play" and allow awareness to flow elsewhere in the body (or the cosmos, for that matter) is something worth doing. The only reason for me to do it is the aforementioned reduction of headplay. I don't think I'm much more than a wind player right now but I also allow that there may be no baseline for individual experience of this.

 

Try it and see?

[Guest sykkelpump]

I've heard/read the "real" MCO is when you have built up "enough" dantien through various means that will concentrate qi there, that it will then "naturally" spill over into MCO. Traditionally, from what I have understood = up back channel, over the top of the head - tongue to roof of mouth - and then down front channel.

 

I have come to consider that pretty much ANY technique to reduce "head-play" and allow awareness to flow elsewhere in the body (or the cosmos, for that matter) is something worth doing. The only reason for me to do it is the aforementioned reduction of headplay. I don't think I'm much more than a wind player right now but I also allow that there may be no baseline for individual experience of this.

 

Try it and see?

 

yes this is how it first happend to me.it spilt over when chi accumulated in dan tien

[Guest sykkelpump]

I've heard/read the "real" MCO is when you have built up "enough" dantien through various means that will concentrate qi there, that it will then "naturally" spill over into MCO. Traditionally, from what I have understood = up back channel, over the top of the head - tongue to roof of mouth - and then down front channel.

 

I have come to consider that pretty much ANY technique to reduce "head-play" and allow awareness to flow elsewhere in the body (or the cosmos, for that matter) is something worth doing. The only reason for me to do it is the aforementioned reduction of headplay. I don't think I'm much more than a wind player right now but I also allow that there may be no baseline for individual experience of this.

 

Try it and see?

 

yes this is how it first happend to me.it spilt over when chi accumulated in dan tien

[Dainin]

This question is for Dainin

 

I read your extremely helpful review on Amazon for Dr. Love's Meridian Qigong. Would you care to elaborate more on it? As it what it's purpose is, what the benefits have been for you and share some tips? Greatly appreciate your inputs.

 

 

Hi Jinjujitsu,

 

The basic purpose of the set is to work on opening blockages in the meridians and channels, allowing for improved flow of qi. There are 14 sections to the set, that each work on a specific function. The sections usually have several exercises each. At the beginning and end of each section we do a deep microcosmic orbit breath accompanied by raising of the arms overhead on the inhale and lowering down on the exhale. Sort of like jumping rope in slow motion. Also at the end of each section, there are 9 complete breaths where we focus on sending energy from one palm to the other.

 

This was my primary qigong practice for about 5 years, and really the first one I learned. Since then I've studied a good number of different forms, but I often find a lot of what I learn is already contained in this set. Benefits have included better health in general (less sickness), and improved sleep when I do it in the evening.

 

Besides his dvd, Dr. Love also has a book on meridian qigong that is not sold on Amazon, you can get it through his web site: Four Doors to Health The book goes into a lot more detail about the how the set works regarding the meridian system, if that's your area of interest.

 

I should also mention that I think there may be more than one form called meridian qigong. There is another book that I haven't read called Meridian Qigong by Li Ding. It is listed on this page I don't know if this is the same, or if Li Ding is related to Master Li Bing Yuan, who was Dr. Love's teacher. I'll try to get it eventually and compare them. I'm going to resume practicing this form more often starting next week, when I begin a juice fast with Dr. Love. By the way, it is especially nice stacked with a round of Pan Gu Shengong before or after, which would make for a little under an hour practice session.

 

Hope this helps --Dainin

[gendao]

Hey Non - there are a lot of ways to go about it, there is no "real one". Searches for the "real" anything always lead down blind alleys. I learned a complex system with one exercise per meridian, plus two opening exercises and a special conclusion. I looked around at youtube but didn't see anything similar. You know that it's essentially the flow of Qi through the 12 meridians, right?

 

There's a shorter, less "accurate" but imo more relaxing and really more effective way to do it, but still not something you can learn in a forum post. You basically breathe along the rough outline of the meridians - from the chest DOWN the inside of the arms, UP the back of the arms to the head, DOWN the back side of the body and legs to the feet, UP the front side of the legs and torso to the chest, etc... but you really have to have a good solid foundation in the meridian structure to understand what's going on and to find the real start and end points.

 

Also, WHOLE BODY BREATH is, imo, essential for this to really work.

 

Aha, I remembered something - when we learned this, we were first taught finger and foot breathing as a way of developing the whole body breath. That really is an easy way to do slide into it.

 

Commonly, you'd fist build up the Qi in the Lower Dantian, circulate it through the Small Circulation and then progress to the Grand Circulation. But that's just one variation on a large theme.

 

If you poke around the internet, look for "Meridian Qigong" as well - there are some videos at YouTube, but nothing like what I learned. The other name would be Grand Circulation like I wrote above.

 

Why are you looking into it? It's more a medical thing and not as "cosmic" as the small circulation, if that's what you're wondering. The MCO is the biggie, don't let the name fool ya

Would doing this also help open the microcosmic orbit, or would it be better to focus on filling up the dantien for that first...and THEN doing this to open up the macrocosmic once your microcosmic has been opened? Edited February 10, 2010 by vortex

[Aetherous]

Commonly, you'd fist build up the Qi in the Lower Dantian, circulate it through the Small Circulation and then progress to the Grand Circulation. But that's just one variation on a large theme.

 

Question to everybody...

 

I wonder why the small circulation is taught first. Why not just do the grand circulation at the same time?

[Mal]

[Aetherous]

sort of interferes/overwrites the micro visualisation/sensation

 

Yes, I suppose that could be the reason! Thanks Mal.

[Reader]

Question to everybody...

 

I wonder why the small circulation is taught first. Why not just do the grand circulation at the same time?

 

Here is my two cents:

 

As Kate and Sykk mentioned: traditionally we need to fully build up Qi in the Dantien. Once Dantien is full, it will first travel in the Microcosmic Orbit not to the legs because of the lotus sitting. That is why Microcosmic Orbit is likely to obtain first. Since you follow some of Dr. Yang instructions, you may want to read his book titled "Qigong for Health and Martial Arts" for more details.

 

I hope it helps.

 

Best.

[Reader]

Here is a 1st Ed. of the book:

 

http://rapidshare.com/files/245052007/Yang.Jwing.Ming-Chi.Kung-Health.And.Martial.Arts-Assassin.rar

 

If you like it, you can order it.

[soaring crane]

Question to everybody...

 

I wonder why the small circulation is taught first. Why not just do the grand circulation at the same time?

 

 

Oceans overflow before rivers run. Fill the oceans and the rivers take care of themselves. Rivers depend on Oceans, but not vice-versa. Rivers are child's play compared to Oceans.

 

I think the GC is easier to affect with things like self-massage and general gymnastics than with strict meditation on the exact circulation through the twelve meridians.

 

That said, it was on a Sunday afternoon after an extremely intense weekend of strict Meridian Qigong that I crashed my car, and laughed about it My wife was very upset. About the laughing, not the crappy car

 

Qi High

[Aetherous]

Oceans overflow before rivers run. Fill the oceans and the rivers take care of themselves. Rivers depend on Oceans, but not vice-versa. Rivers are child's play compared to Oceans.

 

What if your rivers have already run from the oceans overflowing, and you just want to dredge them? That's what the purpose of these exercises are for...otherwise we might as well just constantly do dan tien work. But that's kind of limiting...

 

I think the GC is easier to affect with things like self-massage and general gymnastics than with strict meditation on the exact circulation through the twelve meridians.

 

Oh, you're saying that the GC involves moving energy through each of the 12 meridians? That would suck. I thought it was much simpler...

[Vajrasattva]

there are ways that strengthen you & then there are ways that weaken you so you have to simply do some tests.

 

Most of the "ways" in books is actually to some extent "off".

 

Also keep in mind what you really need for alchemy to occur. Its all about polarity.

 

peace

 

s

[dao zhen]

On 2/10/2010 at 11:35 AM, Aetherous said:

 

Question to everybody...

 

I wonder why the small circulation is taught first. Why not just do the grand circulation at the same time?

 

There are so many different practices and approaches - even though some may use the same names such as Dantian or Small Heavenly Cycle, the method, or approach and even underlying theory can be quite different...

Some are from a Qigong lineage, others maybe from the Martial Arts branch - and also half teachings, or things made up... 

 

I can not try and say I know an absolute way or the 'correct' way - but I was taught in a living manner in China, and have had wonderful personal experiences and development - which in my opinion exactly mirror what I read in many of the old books and classics.

So I am replying as my Teacher taught me, which is from the branch of practice often called the Taoist 'Immortal Tradition' - and also from my personal experience in Self Practice.

 

My Teacher spoke that generally there are two paths found when we get into the realm of Taoist Inner Alchemy Practice:

 

1. - Following the Path - using technique, or distinct methods to try and force or create a result or outcome - this is what we usually find in the public - and even with many masters - technique and method based - can be use with direction of the Mind Will, Visualisation Methods, and a method seeking a specific outcome or result (having an intention to 'do' something and also to 'gain'..

 

2. - Reversal of the Path - this was how my Teacher trained me - it is thought of as the way from the Immortal School, and is a living process which you begin or 'turn on' through following specific preparation practices (some of which are physical based) - and then the process is engaged usually in a retreat setting - sitting for specific periods of time - over specific lengths of time - there is much work to purify the Heart and also to reside in the Empty State... 

 

The problem with the Path of Reversal and why most just practice technique methods was as my teacher said, "To follow the Way of Reversal depends on Purification and Transformation of the Heart.  Most do not want to face their Heart, and go through the process of Purification and Transformation.  Most wish to seek Power, Skills and Ability through the use of the Acquired Mind Will..."

 

If we look at the two Circulations in a very general manner - 

 

* the Small Circulation is at the stage of - 'Transforming Jing to Qi' - 
* the Large Circulation is at the stage of - 'Transforming Qi to Shen' - 

 

The way I was taught - the Small Circulation is performed in a cross leg posture. 

The Large Circulation we perform lying on the back.

 

After finishing the Large Circulation stage, we sit back up in the cross leg posture once again.

 

The basic view of the course to take in practice is as outlined :

 

* Use the form of Body to Replenish Jing *

* Transformation of Jing to Qi *

* Transformation of Qi to Shen *

* Transformation of Shen to Emptiness *

* Transformation of Emptiness to Gain Union with Tao *

 

In my tradition we go through a process to first gather and harvest the External 'Yang Qi' in the Dantian,

after going through the process of Tendon Transformation and Opening all of the Meridians. 

At this stage we also go through a process to recover the lost Jing Qi.

 

The gathering and harvesting of 'Yang Qi' is often termed the 'Gathering of External Medicine'.

 

It seems from looking at things in the public this aspect of the practice is not so known or talked about - or just some part is understood....

 

So people will be working with what my Teacher termed - 'Mental Energy' within the 'Realm of Mind' - 

rather than cultivation and developing the 'Yang Qi', within the Realm of No Mind or residing in the Empty State.

 

As my Teacher said, 'Yang Qi is the one which will spiritualize a person, heal the disease, rejuvenate the physical body, and begin the process of Becoming an Immortal.  

 

When the Yang Qi becomes full in the Dantian, it begins to move and stir and there are very exact signs which present themselves, so one may know the time to move into the next step - which is the Circulation of the Water Wheel or the Small Heavenly Cycle (MCO).

There were three stages of the Small Circulation as I was taught - 

 

Before these Three Stages, one may often be taught what my Teacher termed - the Mind Circulation - or Acquired Breath Circulation - 

(this was called the 'False Circulation' or the 'Untrue Circulation' by some other teachers I met later on.)

my teacher taught some exercises, but they were not stressed - just out of the traditional learning he taught them,

the aim is to gain a state of mind and a transformation of Heart - so the circulation takes place naturally and automatically. 

 

*Three Circulations of the Small Water Wheel: 

 

1.  First Circulation of the External Medicine.

2. Second Circulation of the Inner Medicine.

3. Third Circulation of the Inner Elixir 

 

Depending on one's attributes they are born with and ability, they can do one or all or even none of these stages....

Everyone is different, with different inherent conditions and qualities they bring in at birth...

 

Between the First and Second Circulation is the Incubation period - in this stage of constant stillness practice, the 'External Medicine' which has transformed and purified in the Small Circulation, is nurtured and transformed in the Lower Dantian to become the 'Inner Medicine'.   When this is complete, there will be the Circulation of the Inner Medicine in the Small Heavenly Cycle route.

 

In general, to think deeply on these subjects - 

 

* there are methods based around and designed to work with the physical body.

 

* the Immortal Method or the Path of Reversal seeks to work within the Realm of the True Body, sometimes called the Dharma Body, and not the physical body.  The practice and process is taking place not within the physical body or the physical realm -- though as the changes in cultivation takes place within the Dharma Body - there is like an echo which emanates and ripples through the physical body - thus the physical body goes through some changes, transformations and there can also be sensation experiences at times within the physical body....

 

Practice is so rare to come across, so whatever you may find - be thankful - and approach it with a pure and sincere heart. 

 

Even a very simple method, if approached with deep sincerity can yield wonderful experiences...

 

Blessings and Good Luck on your Journey....

 

*** We now seek to share some of our experience online with those who like to practice - and are having gatherings to practice by ZOOM - you can find the details on our website at - http://www.ImmortalArts.org - 

 

 

Edited April 29, 2021 by dao zhen