Personal Mudra

[Sloppy Zhang]

So a little while ago I was taught a mudra in a dream. Now, I have started to use this mudra in my daily practices, but the other day was a long day, and I hadn't done my scheduled practice, and I was on the bus home, when I decided to do a little meditation, and I formed the mudra as I leaned my elbows on my knees, and the mudra was between my legs. It's not a real flashy mudra.

 

However, I looked up a couple minutes later and someone across and off to the side from me (she was an older woman, around 50) was staring quite intently at my hands, I got a sinking feeling like I had just been "observed", I put my hands in my pockets and leaned back, and didn't use it for the rest of the day.

 

The next day I used the mudra, and it had a very different feel to it- not at all as it had been feeling in the past couple of days.

 

Now certain traditions and systems say that one must keep personal things, like personal mudras and things, secret, because when you use something like that it gathers power in a certain way, and if someone else were to find out about it they could tap into the power that you had spent so much work making.

 

My question is.... am I just being paranoid? Was this lady tapping into my power (even if it was subconsciously), stealing it? Or am I just jumping at shadows? Is it still safe to use?

 

The thing is that in the context of my dream, I was in a group of people all learning the mudra, so it does have some sort of a "group" component, but I'm not sure if it was meant to be limited to just that group... so I was hoping if I could get everyone's thoughts on the matter.

Edited February 11, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[Aetherous]

Maybe the mudra was just what you needed at the time, and the lady simply gave its power a boost by giving you her energy. Maybe you don't need it anymore.

 

Who knows man.

Edited February 11, 2010 by Scotty

[Phoenix]

 

My question is.... am I just being paranoid? Was this lady tapping into my power (even if it was subconsciously), stealing it? Or am I just jumping at shadows? Is it still safe to use?

 

 

Traditions that keep practices secret have several very important reasons for doing so. The first is to keep the practices themselves pure and uncorrupted. The more people start doing a practice casually, the more it loses its gravitas. Our perception of it changes; we no longer consider it all that profound, and therefore, when we practice it, we don't benefit from it as much.

 

Sometimes, practices are also kept secret in order to keep people who might do them under less than adequate circumstances from hurting themselves.

 

Finally, though, and I think this is the reason that applies to your case, spiritual practices are supposed to erode the ego. When someone watches you doing a practice, it becomes a performance in the sense that you become self-conscious, aware that you're being watched. That's the opposite of what the practice is supposed to achieve. The more self-conscious you are, the stronger your ego becomes.

 

I've seen a video of a Tibetan lama doing yoga exercises that for centuries were shown to no one except initiates. He gives a little schpiel about how you shouldn't try this at home, and then records all of it. If people shouldn't try it on their own, why is he recording it for public distribution? Unfortunately, it seems that he's given in to his ego; he thinks he knows something special and will be regarded as a more interesting specimen because of it.

 

Someone I know has a name for this sort of thing; she calls it "dharma exhibitionism." It's the opposite of spirituality.

 

So what I would advise in your case is that if someone noticing your mudra makes you self-conscious, by all means don't display it in public.

[center888]

I've seen a video of a Tibetan lama doing yoga exercises that for centuries were shown to no one except initiates. He gives a little schpiel about how you shouldn't try this at home, and then records all of it. If people shouldn't try it on their own, why is he recording it for public distribution? Unfortunately, it seems that he's given in to his ego; he thinks he knows something special and will be regarded as a more interesting specimen because of it.

 

Someone I know has a name for this sort of thing; she calls it "dharma exhibitionism." It's the opposite of spirituality.

Is it only me or wasn't one of the main points in the documentation you are refering to that they have started to go more into public so their techniques won't get lost as the world around them has changed?

Edited February 11, 2010 by center888

[Phoenix]

Is it only me or wasn't one of the main points in the documentation you are refering to that they have started to go more into public so their techniques won't get lost as the world around them has changed?

I'm not sure if you're referring to the same video I am. It's been a few years since I saw it and I don't have a copy. I do remember that the subject of the one I saw said something like that, but it makes no sense to say "but don't try this" in the same breath. If he simply wants to preserve the technique for future generations of practitioners, he can make a video and store it on a shelf somewhere; he doesn't need to release it publicly.

[de_paradise]

Interesting concern. I am constantly making mudras and changing them as I move through people and situations. I try not to think about it and just let whatever subconscious or energy body decide. I give a little smile to myself if someone notices, because I have found almost noone notices, and certainly noone asks. I think your story about the lady is just your mind and ego fucking with you.

 

As an aside, the current Scotty profile pic is similar to the mudra I do most when I walk out of the house (fingers pointed down, the pinky is out by itself and the other fingers are scrunched together in various ways.) I had read somewhere it is for grounding energy, but perhaps Scotty has some information to add.

Edited February 12, 2010 by de_paradise

[Guest paul walter]

Finally, though, and I think this is the reason that applies to your case, spiritual practices are supposed to erode the ego. When someone watches you doing a practice, it becomes a performance in the sense that you become self-conscious, aware that you're being watched. That's the opposite of what the practice is supposed to achieve. The more self-conscious you are, the stronger your ego becomes.

 

 

 

 

Yeah this is spot on and often not taken into account Sloppy Zhang. When this happens and when you get self-conscious from being "noticed" you give away your concentrated power and it feels like it is being 'taken'. It should actually show us that we are 'leaking' through not being 'sealed'(having enough conviction) in our practice. Paul.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Thanks for the insights everyone there have been many great responses that have revealed things that never even crossed my mind!

 

If anyone else has something they'd like to share, feel free to do so as well

 

Maybe the mudra was just what you needed at the time, and the lady simply gave its power a boost by giving you her energy. Maybe you don't need it anymore.

 

Who knows man.

 

I never thought to think of it that way, thanks scotty

 

Finally, though, and I think this is the reason that applies to your case, spiritual practices are supposed to erode the ego. When someone watches you doing a practice, it becomes a performance in the sense that you become self-conscious, aware that you're being watched. That's the opposite of what the practice is supposed to achieve. The more self-conscious you are, the stronger your ego becomes.

 

So what I would advise in your case is that if someone noticing your mudra makes you self-conscious, by all means don't display it in public.

 

Yeah this is spot on and often not taken into account Sloppy Zhang. When this happens and when you get self-conscious from being "noticed" you give away your concentrated power and it feels like it is being 'taken'. It should actually show us that we are 'leaking' through not being 'sealed'(having enough conviction) in our practice. Paul.

 

Both great points.

 

So if I didn't care that people are watching, if I were "sealed" in my practice, and if I wasn't doing it so other people would take notice, then it wouldn't matter if I did it in public?

[Phoenix]

So if I didn't care that people are watching, if I were "sealed" in my practice, and if I wasn't doing it so other people would take notice, then it wouldn't matter if I did it in public?

Theoretically yes. However, while it's easy to say "I don't care that people are watching," it is actually quite an advanced thing to genuinely mean it. Once you have that degree of freedom, you won't need your mudra anymore. :-)

[Sloppy Zhang]

Theoretically yes. However, while it's easy to say "I don't care that people are watching," it is actually quite an advanced thing to genuinely mean it. Once you have that degree of freedom, you won't need your mudra anymore. :-)

 

Yeah, but my concern isn't so much of purposefully doing it outside so that people see me. It's doing it when I need to do it and people seeing me by accident.

 

The first time (and only time) I did the mudra in public was because I hadn't done any practice for a while and wanted to get stuff done, because I knew as soon as I got home I'd have to do homework then get to bed for the next day. That was my only time to practice. Then I was seen by accident and was worried about it. Being noticed was not part of the plan.

 

I don't know if it was exactly an ego thing, but it was just a concern I had, on top of the different feeling that accompanied it.

Edited February 12, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[Dreamingawake]

I've seen a video of a Tibetan lama doing yoga exercises that for centuries were shown to no one except initiates. He gives a little schpiel about how you shouldn't try this at home, and then records all of it. If people shouldn't try it on their own, why is he recording it for public distribution? Unfortunately, it seems that he's given in to his ego; he thinks he knows something special and will be regarded as a more interesting specimen because of it.

 

Someone I know has a name for this sort of thing; she calls it "dharma exhibitionism." It's the opposite of spirituality.

 

Perhaps preserving the teachings means reaching out in new ways to entice people to come train. Showing the external technique while withholding the internal means that if you want it you must come learn it properly. Especially if you warn them of the dangers of trying to figure it out themselves. If you keep it secret and way up in the mountains then no one knows who you are or what you know. They have no reason to seek you out and your super-secret-squirrel methods die with you.

Just a thought.

[Sloppy Zhang]

I asked fiveelementtao for his perspective on this issue, and he gave two great responses via PM:

 

Hi Sloppy,

Thanks for your question...

Please share this with the tao bums...

 

Getting a mudra that is well known from well know sources is different than mudras given in dreams or in meditation. mudras or sounds, mantras etc... in dreams are special. Unless you are given instructions otherwise, you should ALWAYS keep such information private, at least for a time. There are numerous reasons for this. They may not all be at play at the same time, but it is possible.

 

First, you don't know what this mudra does until you practice it for some time. It may be something just for YOU. In other words, it may be counterproductive, too powerful or simply not meant for someone else. You don't even know if it is something good for you yet... You need to practice it and really examine it.

 

After lengthy practice, continue to ask your guides to reveal the purpose and meaning of the practice and research it in other traditions. You will learn alot this way...

 

Second,

If you show the mudra to others before you have been given "clearance" to share the mudra, or understand it's purpose, it may stimulate your ego and this will lessen the power of the mudra. So, once our ego gets involved.... Well, you know the rest of that story...

 

Third,

You need to meditate on what the mudra is for. It is possible you have been given a very powerful secret that you are being given stewardship over and you need to meditate on how it should be shared and with whom and for what purpose.

 

I have heard that such teachings given in this fashion are a gift from the ancestors and a gateway to much learning and transformation in one's life. And I have also heard that the ancestors are testing many of us right now to see who can be trusted with powerful, new teachings and who will abuse them. Those that abuse such privileges will not be given the new teachings that are coming and those that are trustworthy will be given more... That is what I have heard anyway...

 

Thanks for the question...

Blessings,

Mike

 

I followed up by asking on whether I should continue with using the mudra:

 

Hi Sloppy,

Share this and the previous answer with the Tao Bums...

 

I would first try and rectify any possible damage... The feeling may or may not be significant. But I would take note of it. Here's what I would do... I would pray/meditate and acknowledge to the ancestors that you unknowingly made a mistake. Thank the ancestors/guides for revealing this sacred knowledge to you. Tell them that you heard them and that you now realize that you should keep these things private until you have clearer directions from them about how/when to share these things. Promise them that you will cooperate with them and listen to them about how to share this knowledge in the future. Tell them that you still want to practice the mudra they gave you and ask for their blessings. (because IME without their transmission, it won't work)

Part of what has happened is that this mudra is an invitation to you by the ancestors to work with them and have them teach you. You need to respond to the invitation by acknowledging that they have given you a gift and that you accept their invitation.

Some of the ancestors are very "Old School" so, I would apologize (as though to a very old school Sifu), plead ignorance and ask for their favor to continue with the practice and tell them you will not make the same mistake again. Then wait and see what happens..

Sometimes the feelings we get are just our own projections and sometimes it is the ancestors letting us know something is wrong. In any case you can't go wrong by asking for their help. It is important for people to understand something... We are in a HUGE energetic shift and the immortals are actively seeking people they can transmit new practices to. The world is in desperate need of teacher who can transmit knoeledge necessary for the evolution of the Human Race. As this shift continues, if people do not adapt things will get VERY challenging for them. If you have been given this knowledge, it may mean you are being called to teach and if you choose to accept this responsibility, you need to show you are worthy of their teachings... Or at least that is what I have heard...

Thanks for the questions,

Blessings,

Mike

 

Thanks again 5ET for the wonderful responses And thank you to everyone else who has contributed to this thread. You all really helped me out a lot.

 

And of course, if there's anything anyone wants to add, feel free to

[Guest paul walter]

[quote name='Sloppy Zhang' date='12 February 2010 - 07:33 AM' timestamp='1265988816'

I don't know if it was exactly an ego thing, but it was just a concern I had, on top of the different feeling that accompanied it.

 

 

 

Well everything that doesn't feel 'right' is just an "ego thing" . That should tell you the next 'move' you need to make--let it go. Your ego is your ally once you learn to ignore it's continual prodding through self-sabotage. To talk/think too much about this very immediate 'practice' is to destroy the moment you are given to confront and let go of the problem. As it arises in moments such as you originally related to us the key will be not to misconstrue its meaning through rejecting the discomfort it brings up. Paul.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Well everything that doesn't feel 'right' is just an "ego thing" . That should tell you the next 'move' you need to make--let it go. Your ego is your ally once you learn to ignore it's continual prodding through self-sabotage. To talk/think too much about this very immediate 'practice' is to destroy the moment you are given to confront and let go of the problem. As it arises in moments such as you originally related to us the key will be not to misconstrue its meaning through rejecting the discomfort it brings up. Paul.

 

Ah, I see. That makes sense, thanks

 

Guess I've been missing some good opportunities for practice

[.broken.]

Haven't been here for a while but thought I'd add my two cents, so to speak.

 

If it came to you in a dream then you should consider yourself lucky. My understanding is that such teachings are transmitted from other beings and manifest in the subconscious of a person with a corresponding 'frequency' thus allowing for the teaching to appear, if you will, in one's slumber. Whether you know this being in their physical form is irrelevant; such method of transmission allows for one to have teachers/students without the need for them to find you, or vice versa.

 

The mudra probably felt different the following day because the energy of it developed. It's perhaps more likely that it was the peculiarity of the mudra being performed in public or the energy that it transduced/manipulated that caused the lady to look - as opposed to her look generating some hocuspocus (your average member of the public has little energy capabilities, in my experience at least).

 

Now, to address the matter of secrecy, one should not fear doing one's practices in public, unless one is doing something far beyond the acceptance of the puritanical aftermath that still perpetuates throughout 'Christian' societies - sexual practices would be an obvious example. Spiritual practices are in their nature a very personal thing, that is something no-one can deny, and their existence is necessary for the development of energies/virtues/soul/spirit or whatever one's spiritual tradition elicits. It is this very reason, however, that means that one should never neglect their practices whether in public or not. Spiritual work is of utmost importance and the petty whines of the ego(s) should not be fed. Ideally it will be a 24 hours a day mission and joy. (Needless to say, how far you take your spiritual work is dependant entirely on your own motivations/aspirations... There's plenty of hobbyists out there.)

 

Do not be mistaken that I cannot advocate telling everyone, arguably anyone, what you have been taught. Teachings are transmitted from teacher to student for the sole purpose of being used by the student to develop their being for the benefit of all living creatures. It is for you and no one else. If someone is worthy to receive it then you will know in your heart. Until that time, brother, keep up the practice and see where it takes you

 

Love, light and happiness,

James

[Sloppy Zhang]

Haven't been here for a while but thought I'd add my two cents, so to speak.

 

It was much more than two cents to me. Thank you very much

[Birch]

Oh I dunno. Concerning myself with what I think other people think of whatever I'm doing seems not to be a plus right now. Check this out for a (dumb) example.

 

Say, just yesterday I had 4 men (all kinds of ages) on the bus staring at my groceries - repeatedly. I'm not kidding. I had quite the DrewH moment until I figured it was around 5pm and they must have been hungry.

 

Upset they were as they looked down into the bags and realised there was a lot more salad than they would really enjoy on a regular basis, but still, the gal had gone to the store and was taking the bus after n' all Low maintenance

[Guest paul walter]

Oh I dunno. Concerning myself with what I think other people think of whatever I'm doing seems not to be a plus right now. Check this out for a (dumb) example.

 

Say, just yesterday I had 4 men (all kinds of ages) on the bus staring at my groceries - repeatedly. I'm not kidding. I had quite the DrewH moment until I figured it was around 5pm and they must have been hungry.

 

Upset they were as they looked down into the bags and realised there was a lot more salad than they would really enjoy on a regular basis, but still, the gal had gone to the store and was taking the bus after n' all Low maintenance

 

 

Yeah, a female with a lot of salad will create a strong yin vortex that kind of attracts the male element. I hear carrying a round of cooked beef (yang) in your purse acts as a balance for this sort of thing. Hope this helps...Paul

[Birch]

That was hilarious