Relaxation, attentiveness, visualization

[Encephalon]

All three are extremely important, of course. Which ability did you have to work harder to cultivate? What came naturally? How would you characterize your own progress with respect to these three abilities as your meridians/gates opened up?

 

Karma Koupons for thoughtful replies.

Edited February 11, 2010 by Blasto

[Ya Mu]

All three are extremely important, of course. Which ability did you have to work harder to cultivate? What came naturally? How would you characterize your own progress with respect to these three abilities as your meridians/gates opened up?

 

Karma Koupons for thoughtful replies.

Not a fan of visualization techniques. Not a fan of attentiveness (if you mean mental). Big fan of relaxation.

[Marblehead]

Hehehe. Yeah, relaxation was a natural for me.

 

Attentiveness is still work in progress.

 

I gave up visualization because I always got in trouble when I did it.

 

Peace & Love!

[Phoenix]

All three are extremely important, of course. Which ability did you have to work harder to cultivate? What came naturally? How would you characterize your own progress with respect to these three abilities as your meridians/gates opened up?

 

Karma Koupons for thoughtful replies.

Visualization was very difficult for me at first. For energy cultivation, I'd say attentiveness is more important, though. I tend to prefer a tactile awareness to a visual one, but without very close attention, neither is very useful.

 

All three of the things you mention go hand in hand, though. Cultivate one and you're automatically cultivating the others.

[rex]

Feeling and trust.

[bindo]

Relaxation with a light concentration,(just enough to not fall asleep) has worked best for me.

[Chitoryu]

Attentiveness. Relaxation does not mean unattentive or unware. The 365 Tao talks about the stillness of a crane, while it is still attentive enough to catch a fish.

 

Relaxation, if it is peaceful enough, recharges the body and mind, so energy is restored. Your chi and energy need the battery and generator to be in good shape.

[de_paradise]

Energy tends to run itself, just like blood. When you relax it runs smoother and takes out blockages. (ya, the old Nan and Bodri line) Im not sure where attentiveness plays a part, unless you mean focus, because one-pointed focus of your conscious mind allows the energy to not get distracted in its flow, so to speak. Visualization is also a form of one-pointed focus, but here it is a subset of intent, so finding where pure intent makes the energy flow the strongest is a higher level than finding which visualization makes energy flow the strongest.

 

I would like to contribute an example of strong intent that I recently found, and perhaps you can use the feeling/state and apply it to increasing your energy flow. It sounds a bit corny, but you know in grade school, you have those kids at their desk, and the teacher asks a question, and this one kid really REALLY wants to answer, he's pretty much hopping on his seat, with his hand up, and making little "uh uh uh" noises, so the teacher chooses him. Well, thats the kind of feeling state that really moves energy as well. There's a kind of childish inner gleefulness and wanting to contribute that drives this state, and makes it superior and closer to the Tao.

Edited February 12, 2010 by de_paradise

[Ya Mu]

...Visualization is also a form of one-pointed focus, but here it is a subset of intent, so finding where pure intent makes the energy flow the strongest is a higher level than finding which visualization makes energy flow the strongest.

...

Wow oh wow - you GET it! Bravo!

Visualization, as powerful as it is, will never be as powerful as pure INTENT. I NEVER use visualization.

[gendao]

Energy tends to run itself, just like blood. When you relax it runs smoother and takes out blockages. (ya, the old Nan and Bodri line) Im not sure where attentiveness plays a part, unless you mean focus, because one-pointed focus of your conscious mind allows the energy to not get distracted in its flow, so to speak. Visualization is also a form of one-pointed focus, but here it is a subset of intent, so finding where pure intent makes the energy flow the strongest is a higher level than finding which visualization makes energy flow the strongest.

 

I would like to contribute an example of strong intent that I recently found, and perhaps you can use the feeling/state and apply it to increasing your energy flow. It sounds a bit corny, but you know in grade school, you have those kids at their desk, and the teacher asks a question, and this one kid really REALLY wants to answer, he's pretty much hopping on his seat, with his hand up, and making little "uh uh uh" noises, so the teacher chooses him. Well, thats the kind of feeling state that really moves energy as well. There's a kind of childish inner gleefulness and wanting to contribute that drives this state, and makes it superior and closer to the Tao.

WOW, thanks! That totally explains intent in a crystal-clear way to me (that was otherwise always too intellectually vague)...

 

BRILLIANT!!! I think more points should be dumbed down with real-life "childlike" examples - because scholarly concepts simply aren't real.

Edited February 12, 2010 by vortex

[Encephalon]

May I please request a clarification of visualization? I think I understand the concept of intent as you defined it. But if I use the "spiraling" imagery as described by Chia, spiraling the energy around my limbs or meridians, connecting one gate to another, am I using visualization? I think I'm obliquely trying to ferret out the role of imagination in this process.

(And I still think a certain amount of anatomical awareness helps, but that's a different story).

 

Thanks for all the thoughtful feedback, folks.

[Sloppy Zhang]

I'm good at visualizing. Since I was a kid I have been able to create entire settings, using all five senses, all in my head. It helped me run scenarios, practice telling jokes, go over speeches I had to give, imagine meeting new people.

 

Terrible for running energy.

 

It was like the mental process went on top of the energy, and pretty much squashed it.

 

Now, that's just for me.

 

Relaxation for me is most important. I've always been a "mellow" person, so I found that relaxation techniques are right up my alley. And relaxation, I feel, leads to other things. When you relax and let go of everything, you can naturally focus on one thing (stay attentive). Not because you are focused on one thing, but because you have let go of everything else, so that only the thing you want remains.

 

I will agree with what other people have said- visualization is really about intent. The word visualization suggests a definition which is a little bit different from what most people mean when they say "visualize" (at least I think). What they mean is closer to "intent", but it is also like a feeling. I guess if you ever take Japanese martial arts from a Japanese instructor, a lot of times they will do a technique and say, "it's done with this type of feeling." They are trying to say the same thing, I think, as westerners when we say "visualize" or "imagine".

 

So if a technique is done by avoiding the attack, but sticking to the opponent, a westerner might say, "imagine that you are like water", or "imagine that you are like air, and can easily breeze past a strike while staying close". But a Japanese might say, "water conforms to a vessel, and air constantly stays in contact, but doesn't stop movement, the technique is done with this type of feeling."

 

In energetic practices one might say, "visualize/imagine energy spiraling through your body." Or, as a Japanese might say, "energy spirals through the body, it's that kind of feeling". It's an experience. And it's that experience that you seek to bring into your practice. Which is your intent. But it's also not just the intent that's like, "I want to cross the street." It's something you do with your being.

 

If that makes sense.

Edited February 12, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[Eternal_Student]

If qi is the father of blood, and blood is the mother of qi, how can you "visualize" moving energy without moving the physical body. Even meditation has micro movements of the physical body.

 

Even if its slight, moving qi is like moving your arm. You use intention and actual movement to illicit the response. Its a combo of mental projection, energetic substance, physical micro movements, and the physical medium through which the energy passes.

 

Any one of those things without the other will give you a lessened sensation.

 

[Creation]

I will agree with what other people have said- visualization is really about intent. The word visualization suggests a definition which is a little bit different from what most people mean when they say "visualize" (at least I think). What they mean is closer to "intent", but it is also like a feeling. I guess if you ever take Japanese martial arts from a Japanese instructor, a lot of times they will do a technique and say, "it's done with this type of feeling." They are trying to say the same thing, I think, as westerners when we say "visualize" or "imagine".

 

So if a technique is done by avoiding the attack, but sticking to the opponent, a westerner might say, "imagine that you are like water", or "imagine that you are like air, and can easily breeze past a strike while staying close". But a Japanese might say, "water conforms to a vessel, and air constantly stays in contact, but doesn't stop movement, the technique is done with this type of feeling."

 

In energetic practices one might say, "visualize/imagine energy spiraling through your body." Or, as a Japanese might say, "energy spirals through the body, it's that kind of feeling". It's an experience. And it's that experience that you seek to bring into your practice. Which is your intent. But it's also not just the intent that's like, "I want to cross the street." It's something you do with your being.

 

If that makes sense.

Wonderful explanation of how to approach visualization practices, Zhang!

[Encephalon]

Wonderful explanation of how to approach visualization practices, Zhang!

 

Yes, indeed. My trinity - relax, attent., visual - needs to be reconceived. I'd be grateful if we could all get on the same page here, for my own sake, but for everyone else's too.

 

What about relaxation? To be purely western about it, I've always thought that strength training combined with flexibility exercises would yield a very relaxable body, kind of like yoga, but without the breathing element. As long as the strength/flexibility relationship doesn't become to skewed in either direction, you can initiate a deep relaxation response in most people; just my musings as a trainer. Deeper states of relaxation require the breathing component (blood oxygenation), but I'd be curious to know what other factors you've all deciphered.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Yes, indeed. My trinity - relax, attent., visual - needs to be reconceived. I'd be grateful if we could all get on the same page here, for my own sake, but for everyone else's too.

 

What about relaxation? To be purely western about it, I've always thought that strength training combined with flexibility exercises would yield a very relaxable body, kind of like yoga, but without the breathing element. As long as the strength/flexibility relationship doesn't become to skewed in either direction, you can initiate a deep relaxation response in most people; just my musings as a trainer. Deeper states of relaxation require the breathing component (blood oxygenation), but I'd be curious to know what other factors you've all deciphered.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

I'm not a physical fitness expert or claim to know how the body works best in athletics, and you might know more from being a trainer, but from what I can tell...

 

Everything works better when you are relaxed. Even in sports requiring the most muscular exertion, the top athletes train to relax. If you are tense you won't be able to use muscles as effectively, and you will waste energy. The link to the fight science video from about a week ago on the "crane kung fu" guy had the narrator say that we can keep our body balanced more easily when we are relaxed. I've done some experiments with that and found it to be true.

 

Same with mental focus. It's easy to focus on something when you are relaxed.

 

As for how to get to that relaxed state.... you need to practice relaxing. All there is to it. Stretching and working out will give you a flexible body, but not necessarily a relaxed body. B.K. Frantzis has an article on that here But increase in physical activity can create a level of body awareness in which you figure out where you need to relax, and over time you learn naturally how to conserve energy and things as you go, which usually involves some sort of relaxation.

 

But I guess I should also throw out there that "relax" doesn't mean "go limp". I remember I was in 7th grade when I first found out about wing chun. All my life I had done karate, which was very much, you know, "tough", right. So I went to this wing chun school and the guy showed me the arm position, held at 45 degrees to deflect blows. He said, "relax." I said, "okay." Then my partner threw a punch, and my hand flew back and hit me in the face The teacher was like, "relax, don't go limp! Firm, but not rigid."

 

So when many people hear "relax" they think, "oh yeah, like you're going to sleep." And then their body goes limp. But it's not like that. I don't know if I could put it in any sort of category (like a trinity), as I don't know what it would be paired up with... but relaxing is very important.

[Encephalon]

So when many people hear "relax" they think, "oh yeah, like you're going to sleep." And then their body goes limp. But it's not like that. I don't know if I could put it in any sort of category (like a trinity), as I don't know what it would be paired up with... but relaxing is very important.

 

You're right. There are a lot of people who buy gym memberships who are similarly disconnected, only some of them have been at it for 30-40 years.

 

I guess it would be cool to run an experiment to see deeply a person can relax themselves physically before the application of any chi kung or yoga breathing techniques. The breath is what switches your nervous system from "fight or flight" to "rest and digest," and completely changes the entire hormonal environment of your bloodstream, much for the better. That's where all the magic starts to happen, but I'm still curious about how far sheer physical strength contributes to relaxation. I think Bruce Lee was right; strength really is the godfather of all other fitness criteria, including your capacity to relax. I'd be interested to know what the contrary arguments are, if any.

[Ya Mu]

May I please request a clarification of visualization? I think I understand the concept of intent as you defined it. But if I use the "spiraling" imagery as described by Chia, spiraling the energy around my limbs or meridians, connecting one gate to another, am I using visualization? I think I'm obliquely trying to ferret out the role of imagination in this process.

(And I still think a certain amount of anatomical awareness helps, but that's a different story).

 

Thanks for all the thoughtful feedback, folks.

My perspective on this differs from probably the majority.

 

Intention and visualization, to me are linear processes; they use mental as a force. Very powerful, but will always be limited by the mind; measurable linear waves. I believe that energy manipulation using visualization will always fall short of energy manipulation using INTENT.

 

What I call INTENT is an entirely different thing. I am using it as a noun; its own thing. It is a quantum level event; it transcends time. It is something that has to be developed but this development can go hand-in-hand with energetic development. The more developed an INTENT is, the more access to creation one has. So, the link/alignment with the Divine is a must in INTENT development. So Wu Wei awareness is required.

 

Creation requires both energy and INTENT. So, in order to really manipulate the fabric of the universe, we must raise our energy body vibration, LINK and align with the Divine, practice virtue and walk in the Wu Wei. ALSO, we must assume responsibility. The more responsibility one assumes, combined with the energy body development, leads to a more refined INTENT.

 

I think visualization methods are OK to start with, but at some point, if a person wishes to transcend the in-built limitations of visualization, they have to give it up. And if a person started without using visualization but instead developed INTENT, then they will have a much easier time with no transition between visualization and use of INTENT.

 

Not a popular concept as most people LOVE visualization.

 

 

 

And nothing wrong with anatomical awareness as long as it is a tool and not the driving factor.

[Encephalon]

My perspective on this differs from probably the majority.

I think visualization methods are OK to start with, but at some point, if a person wishes to transcend the in-built limitations of visualization, they have to give it up. And if a person started without using visualization but instead developed INTENT, then they will have a much easier time with no transition between visualization and use of INTENT.

Not a popular concept as most people LOVE visualization.

And nothing wrong with anatomical awareness as long as it is a tool and not the driving factor.

 

 

I think you're doing me a service in pointing out the imprecision of my thought. You nailed, above, I believe. For those of us who have only recently acquired some proficiency with internal energy, visualization is great. I would agree with the rest of your sentiment, that it's a tool to be discarded when the channels are open. I've posted some things at length by Franztis and C.K. Chu about some of the advantages of nei kung training over more external forms of chi kung. It wasn't my experience that visualization helped with the initial opening of the Gov. channel and functional channels, only some of the more stubborn spots like the shoulder blades, pelvic bones, and the legs. Arms and hands opened quick, thumbs first, and it's been a blast ever since.

[Birch]

Could someone give me an example of visualization? Do you mean pictures?

 

The only thing I can figure as far as using "anatomical" knowledge is concerned is that that knowledge then conditions whatever you're doing (see the stacking vs floating models for vertebrae, or the "3 brains theory", or the chakras, or the meridians.) All of these are maps.

 

An example would be the major organs. If you "know" them from a Western medical perspective then you know them 1 way and if you "know" them from a TCM perspective, you know them another way. Very probably one way might be "better" than another way - maybe the more connected version rather than the chopped up meat version but still.

 

 

- How do you visualize something other than what you already "know"?

[Encephalon]

Could someone give me an example of visualization? Do you mean pictures?

 

The only thing I can figure as far as using "anatomical" knowledge is concerned is that that knowledge then conditions whatever you're doing (see the stacking vs floating models for vertebrae, or the "3 brains theory", or the chakras, or the meridians.) All of these are maps.

 

An example would be the major organs. If you "know" them from a Western medical perspective then you know them 1 way and if you "know" them from a TCM perspective, you know them another way. Very probably one way might be "better" than another way - maybe the more connected version rather than the chopped up meat version but still.

 

 

- How do you visualize something other than what you already "know"?

 

 

Kate -

 

I think you're contributing to the subject just by asking good questions. I did not take the time to get specific with my terms, which is something I complain endlessly about when performed by others! The term "visualization" is in dire need of an adequate and specific definition. Lot's to chew on. Please chime in. And then I'd like to find out what its proper role and usefulness can be in internal alchemy, if we haven't touched on it already.

[forestofclarity]

Imagine moving your fingers. Then move your fingers. How would visualization ever work?

[Sunya]

Could someone give me an example of visualization? Do you mean pictures?

 

The only thing I can figure as far as using "anatomical" knowledge is concerned is that that knowledge then conditions whatever you're doing (see the stacking vs floating models for vertebrae, or the "3 brains theory", or the chakras, or the meridians.) All of these are maps.

 

An example would be the major organs. If you "know" them from a Western medical perspective then you know them 1 way and if you "know" them from a TCM perspective, you know them another way. Very probably one way might be "better" than another way - maybe the more connected version rather than the chopped up meat version but still.

 

 

- How do you visualize something other than what you already "know"?

 

Visualization is not just using the memory but also the imagination. The key is intent or will. Tibetan Buddhism uses a lot of visualization, I find it very difficult. I've usually favored relaxation and also focusing on tactile sensations and breathing, visualization is a whole different ballgame. It's much harder to visualize a steady image than to focus on the body or to relax. Visualization strengthens concentration to a very high degree, I think this is why Tibetans prefer this method. In Vajrayana the beginning stage is called the Generation stage, which is where you learn to generate and keep an image still in the mind, usually of a Diety representing your true nature. Once you can visualize/concentrate very well then you do the Completion stage, which are methods of playing with the energies similiar to Qi Gong.

 

For those that want quick results, they may not prefer this path as it requires hard work at developing concentration skills, but I think there is something more to visualization than just building concentration. It strengthens the intent, or the will. We tend to, subconsciously, think in symbols. If you want to send energy to someone how do you will it? How do you form the intent? What is the best way? Visualizing it happening is a symbolic way of intending it. I think that after you can symbolically 'will' things, then directly willing things becomes easier.

[Sunya]

Kate -

 

I think you're contributing to the subject just by asking good questions. I did not take the time to get specific with my terms, which is something I complain endlessly about when performed by others! The term "visualization" is in dire need of an adequate and specific definition. Lot's to chew on. Please chime in. And then I'd like to find out what its proper role and usefulness can be in internal alchemy, if we haven't touched on it already.

 

If you close your eyes, or keep them open since it doesn't matter, and remember a fond memory. It will be vivid, you can probably remember it vividly not just visually but possibly emotionally and tactically as well. You are visualizing except you are recalling a memory. When you dream, you're visualizing too. Visualizing is just using the 6th sense, the mind. If you close your eyes again but this time instead of remembering try to imagine something in very vivid detail. A scene perhaps of a beautiful beach with the sun setting on the horizon, or whatever scene you wish. Now add yourself except your body is perfectly translucent and radiating white-golden light. Your body is perfectly pure, all channels are open, all chakras are balanced. Keep this image steady and relax into that state.

 

This sort of visualization has obvious pragmatic purposes if you analyze. One advantage over relaxation is that you won't fall asleep. An advantage over non-visual focus is that it's easier to specify what you're intending, and easier to notice when you're falling astray from your goals.

[Birch]

Thanks to both for the clarifications!

 

So I guess what I've been up to most recently is what I'd call "spontaneous visualization." It just occurs that it would be an idea at one point to visualize myself as a shimmery golden thing, then some other time as a white Torquemada (don't ask ), then another time to see "love" (which I can't exactly describe, as it's a sort of a transparent distortion) being sent from me to others, then another time little spirals going around me to cut away anything that is attached. The chakra colour meditations are a well worn one with me so opening them up into associated symbolism and emotions/feelings through KAP is cool.

 

Today I was "filled with flowers" on the bus home (I didn't smell them but there was a sort of a "sweet" vibe about it.)

 

So I guess I'm starting to "get it" for the other visualizations (informed chi) but I can't quite catch myself in the act of spontaneous invention these days and indeed I'm finding it hard right now to visualize "practical" things.

 

I thought I'd give the spine issue a go but can't yet decide "the best thing" to try. I guess seeing it as nicely in place (whatever that means) would be the way to go, but you don't want them (vertebrae) too closely stacked because then the things start to fuse (because our body is so smart it starts depositing bone as if it were dealing with a break...)

 

Yes, it's all pretty weird.