[Ron Goninan]

[Sloppy Zhang]

Yang Lu Chan with Taiji, Yin Fu with bagua, and many others....

 

What was their accreditation? They walked into town and said, "I can beat anyone. If you don't believe me, step right up." Otherwise they said, "I practice martial arts." Other people said they looked feeble and weak, and were proven wrong.

 

Martial arts has ALWAYS been about what WORKS. If you have a system that you think is better, you PROVE IT. Period.

 

It's been fairly recently that people have made a big deal about lineages, about who learned from whom, about whether your technique is "internal", or "external", about whether you are a stand up fighter, or a ground fighter. A lot of that has to do with legality, sure, you can't just walk into town and challenge someone to a public duel in which one or both might have permanent serious injury or death.

 

But there are plenty of avenues in which you can prove you have what it takes to win. If your taiji, for example, is so great, you will be fine in MMA. Your rooted power will prevent you from being taken down, and your ability to stick to and flow with your opponent means you will easily have them in a lock while they sustain a minimum of injury.

 

Real martial arts is about proving you have the stuff. That's how it has always been.

 

If people ask you on what grounds you have the right to speak, you tell them who you have fought and who you have defeated. If you want people to find out about your style, you show everyone what it can do.

 

Pretty straight forward, in my opinion.

Edited February 18, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[MBZ]

Yang Lu Chan with Taiji, Yin Fu with bagua, and many others....

 

What was their accreditation? They walked into town and said, "I can beat anyone. If you don't believe me, step right up." Otherwise they said, "I practice martial arts." Other people said they looked feeble and weak, and were proven wrong.

 

Martial arts has ALWAYS been about what WORKS. If you have a system that you think is better, you PROVE IT. Period.

 

It's been fairly recently that people have made a big deal about lineages, about who learned from whom, about whether your technique is "internal", or "external", about whether you are a stand up fighter, or a ground fighter. A lot of that has to do with legality, sure, you can't just walk into town and challenge someone to a public duel in which one or both might have permanent serious injury or death.

 

But there are plenty of avenues in which you can prove you have what it takes to win. If your taiji, for example, is so great, you will be fine in MMA. Your rooted power will prevent you from being taken down, and your ability to stick to and flow with your opponent means you will easily have them in a lock while they sustain a minimum of injury.

 

Real martial arts is about proving you have the stuff. That's how it has always been.

 

If people ask you on what grounds you have the right to speak, you tell them who you have fought and who you have defeated. If you want people to find out about your style, you show everyone what it can do.

 

Pretty straight forward, in my opinion.

I couldn't agree more Sloppy!

 

BLESSINGS!!!

[de_paradise]

Westerners are accreditation fanatics, and this doesnt suit the nebulous world of cultivation attainments. The most common criticism on a teacher who sets up shop and isnt carrying a piece of signatured parchment is that they have no lineage with the assumption that that makes the teacher inferior. Now obviously that may or may not be true, but the sheeple, or the sleeple would prefer hold their rule in their minds that doesnt force themselves to critically decide for themselves. Many low end schools, frauds, and degree mills continuously cash in on this fact, just by offering people what they want: an official piece of paper. I can give you an example of a high level healing qigong guy who offered to cure a person of their AIDS "Where's your accreditation?" "Dont have one, sorry "You see, even the guys life depended upon it, he still held to his rule that only externally validated healers are real. On this forum, remember how both Max of Kunlun and Santiago of KAP were both criticized and lumped in with charlatans due to lineage accreditations, because certain people can only hold the rule in their mind that tells them to sleep and let others decide.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Westerners are accreditation fanatics, and this doesnt suit the nebulous world of cultivation attainments. The most common criticism on a teacher who sets up shop and isnt carrying a piece of signatured parchment is that they have no lineage with the assumption that that makes the teacher inferior. Now obviously that may or may not be true, but the sheeple, or the sleeple would prefer hold their rule in their minds that doesnt force themselves to critically decide for themselves. Many low end schools, frauds, and degree mills continuously cash in on this fact, just by offering people what they want: an official piece of paper.

 

I dunno, I'm a westerner and I just want what works. Look at UFC and the rise of MMA. That is a prevalent opinion. People don't care about what belt your is or what style your art is called. If you can make the other guy tap or kiss the floor, that's all anyone cares about.

 

My first experience with "frauds" came from martial art frauds. Plenty of them could come up with some lineage, and even had it all on a drawing in front of the dojo. I was really serious into their martial art, really bought into the whole "a trained fighter can beat any guy off the street." I was real into the training and the discipline.

 

Then one guy joined the dojo, and after a couple months started sparring. I was taller than most full grown men when I was 16, so I was picked as a sparring partner a lot. This guy dominated me. Really shook me to the core. Stuff I had been diligently working in, believing every word, was completely useless.

 

Since then, I have put my spiritual seeking in the same as my martial arts seeking. I got into the internal martial arts, and when I started reading about the history of these arts I was really surprised, especially about tai chi. I had always thought of tai chi as this peaceful, relaxing art. A lot of people wrote about "flowing with conflict, not getting caught up." Then I read stories about Yang Luchan, Yang Banhou, Yin Fu, and others, and how these guys were "working hard" and "sweating" during tai chi, and how they fought all these people.

 

I realized that internal martial arts were the same as any other martial art: martial. Spiritual seeking, cultivation, advancing to find "reality" has to have the same amount of discernment and no need for bullshit that any nitty gritty martial artist should have. It should all be reality tested in situations that are as real as possible.

 

I can give you an example of a high level healing qigong guy who offered to cure a person of their AIDS "Where's your accreditation?" "Dont have one, sorry "You see, even the guys life depended upon it, he still held to his rule that only externally validated healers are real.

 

That really sucks. He won't be losing anything by trying.

 

On this forum, remember how both Max of Kunlun and Santiago of KAP were both criticized and lumped in with charlatans due to lineage accreditations, because certain people can only hold the rule in their mind that tells them to sleep and let others decide.

 

Can't comment on Santiago, but I felt a massive wave of energy just by looking at a picture of Max (I remember a picture of him was posted in a thread once). I watched a lecture video on the website, and got a similar rise in energy. He is one of the few people that I can honestly say I got an energy reaction from just by looking at, and that was enough to validate Kunlun, or at least Max, for me.

Edited February 19, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang