Systema, Aikido

[Sloppy Zhang]

So if anyone has read the book "Qi Dao- Tibetan Shamanic Qigong: the Art of Being in the Flow", the author, Lama Somananda Tantrapa says that his grandfather aided in teaching martial arts to the Soviet military, and some of the principles he taught can be seen in arts such as systema. I've seen a few demos and explanations like

which, while I don't understand what's being said, seems to talk about relaxed power in punching.

 

B.K. Frantzis in an article here says that he is convinced that much of Morihei Ueshiba's skill came from some sort of internal martial arts training, most likely bagua, which he might have learned from time spent in China, but due to the political atmosphere during the time he taught he was unable to give proper credit for the source of his techniques. Watching a video like

, I can almost directly see someone walking the circle, or doing a palm change.

 

Does anyone have any experience with either of these two arts? Or has anyone trained in or seen another art that also has very apparent internal principles, but is not generally talked about in terms of "internal martial arts"?

 

As always, any thoughts would be appreciated

Edited February 20, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[hajimesaito]

It is apparent that systema was heavily influenced, if not based upon, an Asian internal martial arts (most likely Chinese). For an advanced internal style to exist in a region, we should find many other external styles; for it is the evolution of martial arts that take them slowly from external to internal levels. In China, if there is one Tai Chi, there are many other hard styles. Or in other words, there is a martial tradition. Also, in places like China, India etc, you find mind-body philosophies like Tantra/Yoga, Taoism etc, that were essential for the creation of many martial arts. But you dont find such beliefs in Russia either.

 

I am sure there is something that is being hidden by the Systema practitioners, perhaps because of extreme feelings of patriotism or whatever. Even the PM Putin practices Judo (a Japanese style) and not that ultimate badass Russian internal martial arts that was devised by its military. Many Russian strongman, boxers etc were defeated in China by many masters (or so is the rumour that is circulating). I wish they used Systema back then instead of being strong man.

[Stigweard]

LOL ... nice timing.

 

Just got back from a 5 hour Systema intensive today. I have to say it is a fantastic MA system ... absolutely fluid with strikes and takedowns coming at you from all angles and angles you would never expect.

 

Been training for a year now and can't speak highly enough about it. Fits seamlessly with my Taiji training.

 

[dwai]

So if anyone has read the book "Qi Dao- Tibetan Shamanic Qigong: the Art of Being in the Flow", the author, Lama Somananda Tantrapa says that his grandfather aided in teaching martial arts to the Soviet military, and some of the principles he taught can be seen in arts such as systema. I've seen a few demos and explanations like

which, while I don't understand what's being said, seems to talk about relaxed power in punching.

 

B.K. Frantzis in an article here says that he is convinced that much of Morihei Ueshiba's skill came from some sort of internal martial arts training, most likely bagua, which he might have learned from time spent in China, but due to the political atmosphere during the time he taught he was unable to give proper credit for the source of his techniques. Watching a video like

, I can almost directly see someone walking the circle, or doing a palm change.

 

Does anyone have any experience with either of these two arts? Or has anyone trained in or seen another art that also has very apparent internal principles, but is not generally talked about in terms of "internal martial arts"?

 

As always, any thoughts would be appreciated

 

I trained in aikido for a few years. I found the training provided lacking in "internal" stuff. I wasn't at the Yudansha level however, but I didn't find the Yudansha demonstrate any internal skills. My Sensei was and is a phenomenal individual, with the aura and presence of a benevolent Sage. He doesn't teach Aikido any more but is a Taiji Chuan student. My Taiji Teacher is also his teacher.

 

In much of the aikido training that I underwent, there is a great emphasis on balance and lightness, but no element of internal MA, imho. The way we can activate and move Chi in Taiji Chuan is not there in Aikido -- maybe in higher levels, but after studying Aikido for 3 years I hadn't learnt any internal techniques (could be my shortcoming as a student). When I started Taiji, I started feeling Chi flow within 3 months and after three years I was able to generate significant internal flow.

 

That said, from a MA perspective, I think learning Aikido is very good from a strategy perspective -- the maxim "When pulled Enter, when pushed Yield" is a very effective strategy to use not only in fighting but in life in general.

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

.

 

winpro, what's the story with making posts then deleting them? Why bother posting at all? I just don't understand.

[Sloppy Zhang]

LOL ... nice timing.

 

Just got back from a 5 hour Systema intensive today. I have to say it is a fantastic MA system ... absolutely fluid with strikes and takedowns coming at you from all angles and angles you would never expect.

 

Been training for a year now and can't speak highly enough about it. Fits seamlessly with my Taiji training.

 

 

Wow, really glad to hear about that. Who did you train with?

 

I trained in aikido for a few years. I found the training provided lacking in "internal" stuff. I wasn't at the Yudansha level however, but I didn't find the Yudansha demonstrate any internal skills. My Sensei was and is a phenomenal individual, with the aura and presence of a benevolent Sage. He doesn't teach Aikido any more but is a Taiji Chuan student. My Taiji Teacher is also his teacher.

 

In much of the aikido training that I underwent, there is a great emphasis on balance and lightness, but no element of internal MA, imho. The way we can activate and move Chi in Taiji Chuan is not there in Aikido -- maybe in higher levels, but after studying Aikido for 3 years I hadn't learnt any internal techniques (could be my shortcoming as a student). When I started Taiji, I started feeling Chi flow within 3 months and after three years I was able to generate significant internal flow.

 

That said, from a MA perspective, I think learning Aikido is very good from a strategy perspective -- the maxim "When pulled Enter, when pushed Yield" is a very effective strategy to use not only in fighting but in life in general.

 

Nah, I don't think it was you as a "bad student". I've heard mixed things when it comes to internal development in aikido. Apparently various people within Aikido have had conflicting views on the role of "ki" development in aikido, what it is, and how to make the most effective use of it.

 

I've also heard it's one of those things that is "discovered" rather than "taught". So rather than developing some system of exercises that will develop it naturally over the course of practice (like tai chi and other IMA's seem to do, even if you train in them solely for martial applications), in aikido it's one of those "the students with the proper attitude will get what they need to know." Not to say you didn't have the right attitude but.... you know it may also be something that some teachers don't even understand fully themselves, so it's just not talked about.

 

winpro, what's the story with making posts then deleting them? Why bother posting at all? I just don't understand.

 

Maybe that was an identical third message in the triple post?

 

But yeah winpro, you've made a lot of good posts in the past but then go back and delete them

[Guest paul walter]

principles of the art aikido were a gift from the kami sama to Ueshiba.

He was in 18 hours a day misogi when he received the art. The art its self

harmonies the mind-tantien through three technique that existed already in

aikiken and practiced in shinto for a very long time. He brought the principle

of an ancient esoteric system to the world. The unusual abilities seen in him and

some other aikido teachers since then have been happening behind the scene and acquired from shinto alchemical practices for a long time. Some develop ability from aikido alone because it harmonies the three, but aikido does not directly lead to the higher alchemical practices found in shinto and taoism. They are akin leading to a similar place

 

 

 

The Japanese would have loved it if they could have killed their mother (China) but unfortunately.... It's not for nothing that there has been no Aikido practitioner who could equal Ueshibas fa jin. For them chi is the impentrable mystery their cult status depends on--an obfuscation we see in Reiki and other Japanese 'cults'--they just don't want others knowing about the ready availability of this sort of thing, it would put these guys out of a job and help pull down the impenetrable class/race divide, both within Japan and in relation to China. The Japanese, ninjas that they are, love smoke and mirrors where clarity could equally dwell. When Ueshiba was in China with the rest of the Japanese conquistadors he changed his style, obviously learnt bagua (all them circles), spent time in a monastery (so the rumour has it) and took the theories of yin and yang and chi wholesale from taoist texts and put them in his own sometimes silly writings and aphorisms. Of course all this fits in with Shinto quite nicely--shamanistic earth practice. Read Bruce Frantzis' 'The Power of Internal Martial Arts and Chi' for some comments on his theory about the origins of Aikido as we now know it, and for his comments on the 'higher' practices of 'secret' Japanese martial arts e.g. Okinawan lineages. Also see 'Aikido and Chinese Martial Arts' (2 vols) for a further showing of how the Japs like re-inventing the wheel in relation to their now 'sacred' cultural practices. I can accept the Shinto practices but lets try and fill in the missing history while we're at it--no contradiction there (just the end of Aikido as it has become known ). Paul.

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

The Japanese would have loved it if they could have killed their mother (China) but unfortunately.... It's not for nothing that there has been no Aikido practitioner who could equal Ueshibas fa jin. For them chi is the impentrable mystery their cult status depends on--an obfuscation we see in Reiki and other Japanese 'cults'--they just don't want others knowing about the ready availability of this sort of thing, it would put these guys out of a job and help pull down the impenetrable class/race divide, both within Japan and in relation to China. The Japanese, ninjas that they are, love smoke and mirrors where clarity could equally dwell. When Ueshiba was in China with the rest of the Japanese conquistadors he changed his style, obviously learnt bagua (all them circles), spent time in a monastery (so the rumour has it) and took the theories of yin and yang and chi wholesale from taoist texts and put them in his own sometimes silly writings and aphorisms. Of course all this fits in with Shinto quite nicely--shamanistic earth practice. Read Bruce Frantzis' 'The Power of Internal Martial Arts and Chi' for some comments on his theory about the origins of Aikido as we now know it, and for his comments on the 'higher' practices of 'secret' Japanese martial arts e.g. Okinawan lineages. Also see 'Aikido and Chinese Martial Arts' (2 vols) for a further showing of how the Japs like re-inventing the wheel in relation to their now 'sacred' cultural practices. I can accept the Shinto practices but lets try and fill in the missing history while we're at it--no contradiction there (just the end of Aikido as it has become known ). Paul.

 

Paul, interesting points, but the use of the term 'Japs' is insulting and considered an ethnic slur.

[sifusufi]

B. K. Frantzis telling the story about having his head handed to him by the bald pot bellied chain smoking cook who asked him if he wanted to play is classic! Thanks just had to share that

[zhoupeng]

Re: Aikido

Aikido as it exists now is not internal. This can clearly be seen in its practitioners and in my opinion, is not up for debate. However, Ueshiba clearly had internal abilities that allowed him to manifest power and martial applications that went beyond the realm of the physical and this too is a fact. It should be noted though, that his abilities came from training in Daito Ryu and prior to his invention of Aikido. Daito Ryu is very much an internal art with japanese jujutsu as its basis and includes a whole regimen of solo training methods to develop the qi and whole body sensitivity/coordination that makes internal arts possible.

 

If there are any Aikido practitioners out there who can demonstrate internal martial art qualities then they would have cross trained in other styles that have it. The Aikido training system by itself does not have these elements and there no way someone can get it from just doing Aikido alone.

 

Re: Systema

Systema is a very effective martial method, the training of which is centred on building efficient and coordinated use of the body in a framework of realistic fighting applications. This is the strength of the system and is based on the concepts of relaxation, natural body movement and sensitivity coupled with fine motor control of one's body. What makes Systema special is the method of teaching a person to integrate this quality of natural movement and sensitivity to real world fighting applications. This, I feel, is an area in which many traditional martial arts can learn from.

 

As to whether Systema can be classified as internal, I would have to say that it depends upon the practitioner. The systema drills will develop a high degree of flexibility, coordination, sensitivity and body control and coupled with the proper relaxation, can simulate the FEEL of internal martial arts. Internal arts encompasses all these qualities but training in them alone does not necessarily make one's art internal. An example would be Scott Sonnon and his Rmax program. Clearly he is someone who took the above qualities to a very high level in his training (which has R.O.S.S as its basis) but I am sure we can agree that he is not 'internal' like Ueshiba was.

 

That said, systema also has a breathing/meditation component to it which I know little about but may be the bridge to the internal qualities of that system. Vladimir Vasiliev has a book out explaining some of the basic breathing methods called "Let Every Breath". I have also heard that the high level russian systema practitioners have certain abilities that are absent in even the most experienced of the foreign (non russian) students. So perhaps they are holding back something for their own.

[Guest paul walter]

Paul, interesting points, but the use of the term 'Japs' is insulting and considered an ethnic slur.

 

sorry, wasn't aware of that. Paul.

[Stigweard]

Re: Systema

Systema is a very effective martial method, the training of which is centred on building efficient and coordinated use of the body in a framework of realistic fighting applications. This is the strength of the system and is based on the concepts of relaxation, natural body movement and sensitivity coupled with fine motor control of one's body. What makes Systema special is the method of teaching a person to integrate this quality of natural movement and sensitivity to real world fighting applications. This, I feel, is an area in which many traditional martial arts can learn from.

 

As to whether Systema can be classified as internal, I would have to say that it depends upon the practitioner. The systema drills will develop a high degree of flexibility, coordination, sensitivity and body control and coupled with the proper relaxation, can simulate the FEEL of internal martial arts. Internal arts encompasses all these qualities but training in them alone does not necessarily make one's art internal. An example would be Scott Sonnon and his Rmax program. Clearly he is someone who took the above qualities to a very high level in his training (which has R.O.S.S as its basis) but I am sure we can agree that he is not 'internal' like Ueshiba was.

 

That said, systema also has a breathing/meditation component to it which I know little about but may be the bridge to the internal qualities of that system. Vladimir Vasiliev has a book out explaining some of the basic breathing methods called "Let Every Breath". I have also heard that the high level russian systema practitioners have certain abilities that are absent in even the most experienced of the foreign (non russian) students. So perhaps they are holding back something for their own.

Sums it up nicely

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

.

 

 

winpro07= August Leo?????

[goldisheavy]

So if anyone has read the book "Qi Dao- Tibetan Shamanic Qigong: the Art of Being in the Flow", the author, Lama Somananda Tantrapa says that his grandfather aided in teaching martial arts to the Soviet military, and some of the principles he taught can be seen in arts such as systema. I've seen a few demos and explanations like

which, while I don't understand what's being said, seems to talk about relaxed power in punching.

 

I understand Russian perfectly. What he's saying is that you move in a relaxed manner under the moment of the punch or until the moment the hammer is about to connect with the iron stick.

 

He's not explaining why it helps, he's just telling you to do it and how to do it. He says to keep relaxed until right before contact.

 

It should be obvious why this is beneficial. If you are tense over the entire duration of the punch, you have to overcome the resistance caused by your own muscles in moving your hand forward. If you don't tense at all, not even during the connection, your hand is not intrusive enough to cause maximum damage, and if your hand connects with bones, it can get hurt unless your fist is held together by some tension.

 

What he doesn't seem to be explaining, although I haven't watched the video to the end, is that you tense only the fist, and not the rest of the arm. They call it "brick on a string" in some other Russian systems. The fist is tense but not the shoulder. It's not that easy to achieve this because people tense all over when they do tense, so you have to unlearn that instinct to be able to tense only the fist but not the shoulder and the rest of the body.

 

B.K. Frantzis in an article here says that he is convinced that much of Morihei Ueshiba's skill came from some sort of internal martial arts training, most likely bagua, which he might have learned from time spent in China, but due to the political atmosphere during the time he taught he was unable to give proper credit for the source of his techniques. Watching a video like

, I can almost directly see someone walking the circle, or doing a palm change.

 

Does anyone have any experience with either of these two arts? Or has anyone trained in or seen another art that also has very apparent internal principles, but is not generally talked about in terms of "internal martial arts"?

 

As always, any thoughts would be appreciated

 

My father taught me to punch exactly as explained in this video and as I am explaining to you. Many Russian people know to punch like this. It's not just some secret martial arts voodoo. It's semi-common knowledge and I don't think it has much to do with internal principles, at least superficially. In other words, you can benefit from this style of punching without understanding the first thing about the mind, and the power of beliefs to structure it, and about how intent is limited by the conditioning factors and so on.

Edited February 22, 2010 by goldisheavy

[z00se]

Many Russian people know to punch like this. It's not just some secret martial arts voodoo. It's semi-common knowledge and I don't think it has much to do with internal principles, at least superficially. In other words, you can benefit from this style of punching without understanding the first thing about the mind, and the power of beliefs to structure it, and about how intent is limited by the conditioning factors and so on.

 

The unknown and new things always seem mystical and amazing. Once you understand you realise there's nothing special about it at all.

 

As i get older i find it increasingly amazing how uncommon common-sense is.

Edited February 22, 2010 by z00se

[Sloppy Zhang]

I understand Russian perfectly. What he's saying is that you move in a relaxed manner under the moment of the punch or until the moment the hammer is about to connect with the iron stick.

 

He's not explaining why it helps, he's just telling you to do it and how to do it. He says to keep relaxed until right before contact.

 

It should be obvious why this is beneficial. If you are tense over the entire duration of the punch, you have to overcome the resistance caused by your own muscles in moving your hand forward. If you don't tense at all, not even during the connection, your hand is not intrusive enough to cause maximum damage, and if your hand connects with bones, it can get hurt unless your fist is held together by some tension.

 

What he doesn't seem to be explaining, although I haven't watched the video to the end, is that you tense only the fist, and not the rest of the arm. They call it "brick on a string" in some other Russian systems. The fist is tense but not the shoulder. It's not that easy to achieve this because people tense all over when they do tense, so you have to unlearn that instinct to be able to tense only the fist but not the shoulder and the rest of the body.

 

 

 

My father taught me to punch exactly as explained in this video and as I am explaining to you. Many Russian people know to punch like this. It's not just some secret martial arts voodoo. It's semi-common knowledge and I don't think it has much to do with internal principles, at least superficially. In other words, you can benefit from this style of punching without understanding the first thing about the mind, and the power of beliefs to structure it, and about how intent is limited by the conditioning factors and so on.

 

Thanks gold

[Martial Development]

Martial arts history isn't worth the paper it was never written on.

 

And Bagua doesn't have a patent on spiraling motion. If you want to credit a source for that, you'll have to go back to Og the Caveman. Since martial arts history doesn't require evidence, I'll just go ahead and assert that there is no way that Aikido was derived from Baguazhang.

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

LOL ... nice timing.

 

Just got back from a 5 hour Systema intensive today. I have to say it is a fantastic MA system ... absolutely fluid with strikes and takedowns coming at you from all angles and angles you would never expect.

 

Been training for a year now and can't speak highly enough about it. Fits seamlessly with my Taiji training.

 

 

 

Stigweard,

 

Are you still training Systema? Are you working with their breathing practices, which are said to be the foundation of Systema? I would love to hear your impressions.

[orb]

With the Goal in mind to test the efficiency of IMA practice as a fighting skill

I and a few friends (MMA experience 2-4 years) have personally fought Aiki-do black belts (12-16 years of practice) and Russian Systema Special forces guys (Russian Military doesn't pay them much so they are more then happy to demonstrate... We have chosen only the bigger and stronger guys. We used only punches, kicks and take-downs - they were aloud to use all their secrets (except eye poking and biting).

In the end they were all defeated with great ease (no exceptions).

We tried the same thing with guys from Bagua and Taichi.

The same thing happened to a guy from wing tsun kung fu (the best student in the school, after that his teacher got upset and became violent himself... - lack of emotional control ?)

The only style that we have not fought was xing yi (We just didn't find anybody with long enough experience).

If anybody here knows an IMA practitioner that want to test himself against MMA please let me know.

 

V/R,

Orb

 

 

So if anyone has read the book "Qi Dao- Tibetan Shamanic Qigong: the Art of Being in the Flow", the author, Lama Somananda Tantrapa says that his grandfather aided in teaching martial arts to the Soviet military, and some of the principles he taught can be seen in arts such as systema. I've seen a few demos and explanations like

which, while I don't understand what's being said, seems to talk about relaxed power in punching.

 

B.K. Frantzis in an article here says that he is convinced that much of Morihei Ueshiba's skill came from some sort of internal martial arts training, most likely bagua, which he might have learned from time spent in China, but due to the political atmosphere during the time he taught he was unable to give proper credit for the source of his techniques. Watching a video like

, I can almost directly see someone walking the circle, or doing a palm change.

 

Does anyone have any experience with either of these two arts? Or has anyone trained in or seen another art that also has very apparent internal principles, but is not generally talked about in terms of "internal martial arts"?

 

As always, any thoughts would be appreciated

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

With the Goal in mind to test the efficiency of IMA practice as a fighting skill

I and a few friends (MMA experience 2-4 years) have personally fought Aiki-do black belts (12-16 years of practice) and Russian Systema Special forces guys (Russian Military doesn't pay them much so they are more then happy to demonstrate... We have chosen only the bigger and stronger guys. We used only punches, kicks and take-downs - they were aloud to use all their secrets (except eye poking and biting).

In the end they were all defeated with great ease (no exceptions).

We tried the same thing with guys from Bagua and Taichi.

The same thing happened to a guy from wing tsun kung fu (the best student in the school, after that his teacher got upset and became violent himself... - lack of emotional control ?)

The only style that we have not fought was xing yi (We just didn't find anybody with long enough experience).

If anybody here knows an IMA practitioner that want to test himself against MMA please let me know.

 

V/R,

Orb

 

Jeez, not to question you or anything, but I have a hard time believing that. What MMA

are you referring to? What level of Systema training were those opponents? Can you give a more detailed accounting of this? Why not videotape these demonstrations and put them on Youtube?

[mike1234]

Jeez, not to question you or anything, but I have a hard time believing that. What MMA

are you referring to? What level of Systema training were those opponents? Can you give a more detailed accounting of this? Why not videotape these demonstrations and put them on Youtube?

 

It's actually quite EASY to believe! MMA practitioners spend all their time sparring against aggressive unyielding sparring partners. They build a lot of fitness and fighting awareness. Remember the saying--- "You Perform How You Train."

 

YOU PERFORM HOW YOU TRAIN-- How do most Internal Martial Arts guys train? Do you really think that forms and passive partner drills prepare you to fight? If your training is unrealistic, then expect to get you butt kicked.

 

The biggest lol thing is when you see guys doing forms, and classic punching drills. Get real! In a real fight guys throw hooks shots, flurries, and are spontaneous.

 

YOU PERFORM HOW YOU TRAIN--

 

In defense of 'real' martial arts. Most martial arts styles are not intended for the ring. A ring means an agreed upon fight, squaring off with some street thug is AGREEING to a fight, going into a fighting stance is agreeing to a fight. The martial arts are not about fighting, they are about self-defense and putting an end to an attack ASAP. This means going from Joe model citizen to chain punches and eye pokes in a matter of seconds. This requires a whole different mentality than spiritrock-peace angel- I hope the forms I learned work because this is the first time I've actually met a real opponent.

 

If your training doesn't consist of facing sparring partners that try to kick your butt, then you are not prepared for the ring or the streets.

Edited July 10, 2010 by mike1234

[Sloppy Zhang]

Jeez, not to question you or anything, but I have a hard time believing that. What MMA

are you referring to? What level of Systema training were those opponents? Can you give a more detailed accounting of this? Why not videotape these demonstrations and put them on Youtube?

 

It's not that hard to believe......

 

99% of the time, the schools that teach these arts are not teaching the methods necessary to be successful at fights.

[orb]

Jeez, not to question you or anything, but I have a hard time believing that. What MMA

are you referring to? What level of Systema training were those opponents? Can you give a more detailed accounting of this? Why not videotape these demonstrations and put them on Youtube?

 

 

I will only briefly try to clarify, because I don't have any interest to convince you.

The fact that you don't "believe" things that are common sense to me, make me even less interested ... but who knows maybe you do have a serious mature and practical attitude after all.

 

This was an experiment for myself (because I do believe that there are real IMA fighters its just that they are not the ones with websites, big martial art clubs and traditional chinese clothes). I will not put anything on youtube because it is humiliating to those styles and that's not my aim, also I have respect for some of those guys.

 

This was done in a few different sessions because we couldn't just get everybody together at the same time and in one place and was not always planned either.

 

The Aiki-do guys are aquaintances of mine and they are both instructors (One of them use to practice Taekwondo at some point also). They claimed that their teacher is so advanced that he can disappear in front of you... We never fully tested that part maybe because he never appeared in the first place...

The Taichi and Bagua practitioners belong to the same school.

Their teacher (for whom I have actually a lot of respect) was a former European Champion in Bagua.

They all move very nice and "smooth" but when they have to fight they become rigid and inefficient like old people (although their age ranged between 27 and 35).

 

The Systema guys were working in US during the summer - just to make some extra money (they also had some wrestling/sambo background - so actually striking was their weakest part. We did learn some good things from them and they were the hardest to deal with.

 

 

In the future If I have to do it again you are more then welcome to take part in it.(just find me the opponent).

 

 

 

You can see something similar in this video (somebody else posted it).

Vladimir Starov is one of the top dogs (in systema). He was also claiming after this video that he had a broken arm before the fight.(which is hard to believe...). Also you can see that he is heavier and taller then his opponent and also his opponent didn't know takedowns....

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NIxULhMGZA

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Good points. Actually, I've always thought that it usually comes down to grappling. Probably a solid wrestler is a good bet against most IMA folks, unless the IMA'ers really spend the time in realistic situations.

 

That systema guy in the video was pathetic. It still doesn't mean anything for the system as a whole, though.

I have seen other Systema practitioners who would be able to handle this guy easily.

Edited July 10, 2010 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[enouch]

Good points. Actually, I've always thought that it usually comes down to grappling. Probably a solid wrestler is a good bet against most IMA folks, unless the IMA'ers really spend the time in realistic situations.

 

That systema guy in the video was pathetic. It still doesn't mean anything for the system as a whole, though.

I have seen other Systema practitioners who would be able to handle this guy easily.

 

 

 

 

 

Which is why I always advise my friends learn hardcore, scientific street fighting before the heady stuff. Weights, heavy bag, sparring, running, plyometrics, killer instinct never abandon you! That said, I also agree there are internal masters who can defeat mixed martial artists. Especially after learning about how John Chang took down Mike Tyson[before the Buster Douglas fight] and his bodyguards in Vegas!

Edited July 11, 2010 by enouch