Disturbing conclusion

[Non]

My friend tells me that all women get off on pain, that a woman does not get off until she feels pain, and that's the difference between guys, and what makes it so hard, and why women always go for the bad guy.

 

In the end, bad guys win, good guys lose.

 

They're all masochists, without even being aware of it, which also probably makes them sadists.

Edited February 20, 2010 by Non

[rain]

My friend does not think so.

[Non]

My friend does not think so.

 

well just think of it. women have to get their cherries popped. at the same time they feel pain they might just feel pleasure, and then associate pain with pleasure thereafter. I guess most women do.

 

people see animals pretty much rape each other, and the men have to dominate and war over each other to get the female. And the female is thus also attracted to brutality and violence.

[Non]

And you dont think the fact that because I do something logical, and I get something illogical back ie unrequited love, that this doesn't drag me down?

 

It most definitely does. In fact, your general success in society depends on how well you are able to 'dominate', and 'agress' other men and women and 'coerce' women, and therefore people. One cannot get respect with assertion, because society is built up on violence and aggression and coercion, prostitution, etc.

[awake]

"Theyre all fucked up"

 

Coolbeans.

 

Now what?

 

Did you have a point to make or just complaining you aren't satisfied with the world?

 

There are alternate theories to each of your points. But what is it you're trying to gain from this thread?

[yangluchan]

Hmm... I think you are trying to wrap your head around the concept of women, and understanding what they are all about, am I right? Perhaps you are not the one all the girls flock around, and you can't really understand why?

 

I don't mean this in a negative way, I just kind of get that vibe from you, and I know what that's like. I used to be that way too. Just in really the past year did I understand more of women, and I actually realized that a lot of girls were into me before (I thought that almost no girls were attracted to me), but in general girls don't make the first move. The only girlfriends I had had before that were girls that were attracted enough to actually approach me and make the first move.

 

Now that I actually understood this, and made my interest more apparent, girls were opening up to me, and now I have a wonderful girlfriend, the first in 4 years!

 

I would recommend you read some David Deida by the way.

 

Now, you say that girls are into pain. I think this is not correct, but girls are into EMOTIONS on a quite different level than we guys are. I guess it might stem from the fact that they are such social creatures, much more than we are, and very tuned in to these things.

 

Now, emotions can be "good" or "bad", but both kinds make girls (and men too of course) feel alive. That's why girls would rather prefer a bad boy which takes her on an emotional rollercoaster of good and bad feelings, as opposed to a nice guy who is all nice and good all the time, and never evoke such strong emotions in her.

 

I think all girls will agree they'd much rather be with a kind but strong man, who has all the "good" traits of a bad boy, but is kind and is not out to fuck with the girl's emotions to make up for his own insecurities.

 

Oh, and yes, most girls are submissive and want the man to take charge and be "dominant". This evokes strong emotions with her, that's the problem with nice guys (oh yeah, I was there!), they think "oh no, I can't do that! She wouldn't approve of that!", when in fact she probably would love it if you just grabbed her and kissed her because that was what you wanted! In general, women are yin and men are yang, and women don't feel comfortable when having to play the aggressive part or have you ask permission for these things.

 

Oh well, a lot of rambling, but no, I don't think girls are into pain, only emotions! :-)

[gendao]

Those who have been numbed by abuse or trauma do require higher stimulus to feel anything. These are typically the ones who like S&M..

 

Otherwise, women do instinctively get turned on by power and aggression. And when they get turned on, they no longer care if the guy is "bad" anymore. See married cheater Tiger Woods.

As the old PUA adage says...women would choose 5% of a stud over 100% of a dud.

 

So if you want to satisfy a woman in bed, you do need to be more "Rob Zombie" than "Mr. Rogers."

[Non]

Hmm... I think you are trying to wrap your head around the concept of women, and understanding what they are all about, am I right? Perhaps you are not the one all the girls flock around, and you can't really understand why?

 

I don't mean this in a negative way, I just kind of get that vibe from you, and I know what that's like. I used to be that way too. Just in really the past year did I understand more of women, and I actually realized that a lot of girls were into me before (I thought that almost no girls were attracted to me), but in general girls don't make the first move. The only girlfriends I had had before that were girls that were attracted enough to actually approach me and make the first move.

 

Now that I actually understood this, and made my interest more apparent, girls were opening up to me, and now I have a wonderful girlfriend, the first in 4 years!

 

I would recommend you read some David Deida by the way.

 

Now, you say that girls are into pain. I think this is not correct, but girls are into EMOTIONS on a quite different level than we guys are. I guess it might stem from the fact that they are such social creatures, much more than we are, and very tuned in to these things.

 

Now, emotions can be "good" or "bad", but both kinds make girls (and men too of course) feel alive. That's why girls would rather prefer a bad boy which takes her on an emotional rollercoaster of good and bad feelings, as opposed to a nice guy who is all nice and good all the time, and never evoke such strong emotions in her.

 

I think all girls will agree they'd much rather be with a kind but strong man, who has all the "good" traits of a bad boy, but is kind and is not out to fuck with the girl's emotions to make up for his own insecurities.

 

Oh, and yes, most girls are submissive and want the man to take charge and be "dominant". This evokes strong emotions with her, that's the problem with nice guys (oh yeah, I was there!), they think "oh no, I can't do that! She wouldn't approve of that!", when in fact she probably would love it if you just grabbed her and kissed her because that was what you wanted! In general, women are yin and men are yang, and women don't feel comfortable when having to play the aggressive part or have you ask permission for these things.

 

Oh well, a lot of rambling, but no, I don't think girls are into pain, only emotions! :-)

 

Nah I think they're ALL into pain, and are masochists and sadists.

 

And forget that David Deida guy, that misogynist.

 

ALL of what you're saying is still supporting the original conclusion my friend and I made.

 

 

About the "men have to make the first move" thing, as well.

 

Men have to risk being labeled a stalker, rapist, criminal, pervert unless she thinks you're 'righteous' for the kind of behavior you exhibit (ie being a bad boy, ashole, etc) but anything she does is considered cute. she couldn't help us out at all, knowing that we could risk our lives, because she could get a bunch of her gangster friends to beat you up or kill you, or you could land in jail for 'sexually assaulting her'/ 'attempted rape'/ 'sexually abusing/molesting' her, etc.

 

But a woman does the same thing, and it's considered cute.

 

It's also usually the guys who actually care for her, and are afraid to scare her off too, that are usually feared of. So a guy basically has to be remorseless.?

 

Don't get me wrong, I do try to make a move when I can, but when I can't, I'll usually try to show it. And again, I just don't want to scare her off. Men are scary, women are not. So wth? Why do I have to risk my life, my job, my career, etc. just for simply showing a girl that I am attracted to her, or just want to talk to her of course depending on how 'bad' your natural character is, when she can do things, 100000 times 'worse' and it's considered ok.

 

Women are obsessed with 'bad-assedness'.

 

Society itself is obsessed with violence and cruelty. Society RUNS on that shit. Most don't even know it.

 

Women should be glad that I'm not all in their face and shit and have some humility, and I'm just trying to be careful. Not, think of me as some weak coward feminine pussy or something, cuz they all like to talk smack about that, about how we don't take action supposedly. We're just trying to be careful and scare you off and do the right thing, we still do understand that we shouldn't take things so harsh, but when our life is on the line? Like I said, I'll try when I can man but I can only do so much.

 

Why can't it be equal? Why do the men have to be the aggressors, and HAVE to be aggressors, why cant it just be assertive? No assertiveness doesn't even work because society thinks assertion is aggression.

Edited February 20, 2010 by Non

[3bob]

Get off it already... blame game.

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Nah I think they're ALL into pain, and are masochists and sadists.

 

And forget that David Deida guy, that misogynist.

 

ALL of what you're saying is still supporting the original conclusion my friend and I made.

 

 

non, your many posts and topics all point out your isolation, anti-social nature, loneliness and unwanted celibacy. Honestly, I'm not sure why we keep replying, you seem so angry and bitter and you don't seem to have let go of your resentments that the world and women especially owe you something. And yet, many of us can identify with at least part of your difficulties.

 

When I was young, I too felt alienated from women. Never had a date in high school, never went to the prom. I too was angry at women for not realizing who I was. But as long as I was stuck in this bitterness and resentment, women stayed far away from me. If I tried to be different, before long I would go back to being angry, because they still didn't pay any attention to me. It was not until I began to live my life, get involved in other things, worked as a bartender, continued school, worked in political campaigns, did I really lose the bitterness and begin to turn things around.

 

So your quandry: "how do I stop feeling this way (bad, angry, resentful= female repellant) and begin feeling another way (good, worthy, capable, confident+ female attractant)?

 

Well, the answer is not to sit at your computer screen putting up topics on forums about how fucked up you are and daring others to make you feel better about yourself...and shooting down their suggestions.

 

There is hope. Things change. I did well with women from my mid-to late twenties on. By the time I was 30, I became invisible to younger women (early twenties and single) but not to women my own age. Now, at 50, I have worked on myself, developed physically, spiritually and emotionally, grown as a person... and now, believe it or not, I am attracting all types of women...now even young ones. I actually am not interested in younger women (aside from a brief fling with a 23 year old months before my 50th birthday, which I think I did to prove I still 'had it' and to rebel in the face of getting older, perhaps) because I'm at a different place in life. I like a women with character and charisma and experience.

 

Wallowing in your misery, going around in circles at your computer (I'm almost positive you have a strong internet porn habit) will only lead to more of the same. Find yourself a fantastic therapist (and there are some!), get out of your apartment, get involved in something... embrace life, and you will find things slowly beginning to change. The key is not to judge things and get discouraged. If you go back to bitterness and resentment, no women. Find yourself a good female friend or friends(and leave it at friendship, do NOT put out a vibe of wanting to be romantically involved with them) so you can at least begin to see that women are o.k. They may advise you on dating, or clothes or whatever, and that will be good.

 

Practice kaizen...small, incremental, even infinitesimal steps toward changing yourself. You can do it. You have to. Over all these threads and posts you have done here at ttb, you don't seem to have changed at all. Cut that shit out. Don't post your misery here again and again. Start yourself a personal practice forum here and report back on what you are doing, what you are trying to change your situation. (And change your name, Mr. non, non equals nothing. Maybe you feel like that, but then that's where you will stay. Pick out a strong screen name and pick out a powerful image for your avatar).You're allowed to get discouraged, but no self-pity, whining or sniveling. We're already getting tired of that crap from you. Do as i have suggested, and I guarantee you'll have a whole bunch of us cheering you on if you're really trying to get there.

[Non]

non, your many posts and topics all point out your isolation, anti-social nature, loneliness and unwanted celibacy. Honestly, I'm not sure why we keep replying, you seem so angry and bitter and you don't seem to have let go of your resentments that the world and women especially owe you something. And yet, many of us can identify with at least part of your difficulties.

 

When I was young, I too felt alienated from women. Never had a date in high school, never went to the prom. I too was angry at women for not realizing who I was. But as long as I was stuck in this bitterness and resentment, women stayed far away from me. If I tried to be different, before long I would go back to being angry, because they still didn't pay any attention to me. It was not until I began to live my life, get involved in other things, worked as a bartender, continued school, worked in political campaigns, did I really lose the bitterness and begin to turn things around.

 

So your quandry: "how do I stop feeling this way (bad, angry, resentful= female repellant) and begin feeling another way (good, worthy, capable, confident+ female attractant)?

 

Well, the answer is not to sit at your computer screen putting up topics on forums about how fucked up you are and daring others to make you feel better about yourself...and shooting down their suggestions.

 

There is hope. Things change. I did well with women from my mid-to late twenties on. By the time I was 30, I became invisible to younger women (early twenties and single) but not to women my own age. Now, at 50, I have worked on myself, developed physically, spiritually and emotionally, grown as a person... and now, believe it or not, I am attracting all types of women...now even young ones. I actually am not interested in younger women (aside from a brief fling with a 23 year old months before my 50th birthday, which I think I did to prove I still 'had it' and to rebel in the face of getting older, perhaps) because I'm at a different place in life. I like a women with character and charisma and experience.

 

Wallowing in your misery, going around in circles at your computer (I'm almost positive you have a strong internet porn habit) will only lead to more of the same. Find yourself a fantastic therapist (and there are some!), get out of your apartment, get involved in something... embrace life, and you will find things slowly beginning to change. The key is not to judge things and get discouraged. If you go back to bitterness and resentment, no women. Find yourself a good female friend or friends(and leave it at friendship, do NOT put out a vibe of wanting to be romantically involved with them) so you can at least begin to see that women are o.k. They may advise you on dating, or clothes or whatever, and that will be good.

 

Practice kaizen...small, incremental, even infinitesimal steps toward changing yourself. You can do it. You have to. Over all these threads and posts you have done here at ttb, you don't seem to have changed at all. Cut that shit out. Don't post your misery here again and again. Start yourself a personal practice forum here and report back on what you are doing, what you are trying to change your situation. (And change your name, Mr. non, non equals nothing. Maybe you feel like that, but then that's where you will stay. Pick out a strong screen name and pick out a powerful image for your avatar).You're allowed to get discouraged, but no self-pity, whining or sniveling. We're already getting tired of that crap from you. Do as i have suggested, and I guarantee you'll have a whole bunch of us cheering you on if you're really trying to get there.

 

 

MAN you people keep SAYING I never do anything and that all I do is sit on my ass on the computer all day and just wallow.

 

What the fuck! That's not what I do. Everything I have been doing is futile. I can't even get female friends.

Edited February 21, 2010 by Non

[thelerner]

yup blame game.

 

 

The real world is made up of people too complex to fit into such a tight box. The person who holds such views is crippling themselves in my opinion. Isn't the second part your friends theory, Men are poor victims unless they're assholes?

 

Don't be an asshole, don't be a victim, don't buy into woman are masochists. Be a good person, find a good person; it might not be easy, but I think it will be impossible if you keep mindset where your friend's philosophy.

 

 

Michael

[yangluchan]

Some of us keep telling you that we recognize your patterns (even if they might be a bit more extreme than most of us have had in the past), and tell you the steps and what made this turn around for us.

 

Now, you complain that things are the way they are, my suggestion would be, seeing as this is a TAOIST forum and all: quit it! You see, things are like they are, and the only way to get progress is to a) realize things for what they are and work with what IS. Complaining about things and wishing things were this way and that way can feel good for a while (and again, I've been there too, "fuck those girls, when they can't see me for the nice person I am"), but it will never make you feel permanently better. If you want a different outcome, perhaps you need to change something?

 

If you are really posting to get some help, my suggestions is to look at what is posted! Might I suggest something that felt really good for me (even though scary as hell), try going around for a day, looking into peoples eyes, and feel that you open your heart up as much as you can. Feel how that feels fucking scary and you feel so vulnerable. But trust me, then, after a while, you might come to realize that you have to have your heart open, to try to keep it open even when you get hurt or when there is a possibility you might get hurt. It might just do wonders...

 

Another suggestion is to try some hypnosis sessions, I did some sessions with Lucas West, which helped me with a lot of old less useful patterns in my mind as well.

 

Anyway, most problems (as I guess is also a more Taoist way to see this I've come to realize) are not because of the way things that are, but because of our mental constructs around them. If we see things for what they are, your mind will go "Aha!", and everything will seem different, yet the same.

 

AND, things are like they are. It's not right to assume that it's only men who have problems, women do too, even though I think yes, post-feminist society has left us with a society where men have probably had a bit harder finding their role. Women of the past decades wanted soft men, but now it seems that isn't enough either, ehh? All hot girls say that they "unfortunately fall for bad boys". It's because of the way they make them feel, not because the liked being treated like shit. If you can elicit those feelings in her and be a nice guy, you'll have a girl that want to stick around (provided she is a mentally stable girl to begin with).

 

I would also like to add that perhaps you should focus on working on yourself for the time being, and not focus so much on trying to fix this problem, but rather on becoming a more happy and centered human being, for YOURSELF. If you do that, other things, girls included, will start falling into place almost automatically... :-)

 

Good luck!

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Alright then, if you're happy with other people regarding you as pathetic, so be it. I'm going to stop reading your posts, you're stubborn in your hopelessness and it's both irritating and boring at the same time. This is obviously the only place in your life where people pay any attention to you, but that too is fading. Good luck to you.

Edited February 21, 2010 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[seththewhite]

Hey Non.

 

I'm not going to tell you that you're wrong, because you're not.

I wont even tell you to stop venting to us... that's what we're here for.

 

What I will tell you is that not all women are terrible... same for the rest of society.

You won't find contentment if you observe a characteristic in someone or some people

and write off the rest of a demographic due to bitter feelings.

 

I'd advise you to stop searching.

When you realize there's nothing you can do, then everything will be done for you.

 

Good luck my friend.

[Aetherous]

Non,

 

Best of luck to you.

[doc benway]

My friend tells me that all women get off on pain, that a woman does not get off until she feels pain, and that's the difference between guys, and what makes it so hard, and why women always go for the bad guy.

 

In the end, bad guys win, good guys lose.

 

They're all masochists, without even being aware of it, which also probably makes them sadists.

Your friend makes gratuitous generalizations that are unfounded in reality.

[Gjeken]

Edited February 25, 2010 by Gjeken

[Non]

Yea I dont like David Deida too much with his associations with Adi Da and the whole PUA scene which I don't really like either.

 

and the sinister negative connotations and associations with uncontrolled sexuality and brutality.

Something just tells me he isn't all that pure.

 

Pretty much all of society these days associates sexuality with brutality and negative connotations. AS well as life itself. But in a very clinging way such that, they cannot think of life without suffering, so they seek pain and suffering, and seek to bring that reality onto others'. My idea is to accept suffering if it comes, but not to cling to it, and not to associate life with suffering such that I seek it, and seek to bring others to the same.

 

And I know this is a daoist forum.. but I thought since daoism usually includes sexual practices and discussions of yin and yang, I thought it could be appropriate.

Edited February 21, 2010 by Non

[NeiChuan]

The more you generalize women the more you'll push yourself away from getting one.

[Guest paul walter]

 

Something just tells me he isn't all that pure.

 

And I know this is a daoist forum.. but I thought since daoism usually includes sexual practices and discussions of yin and yang, I thought it could be appropriate.

 

 

 

I don't remember finding any pro-misogyny references in taoist stuff. I know you're hung up on purity, but try to remember it's only to the extent that it hides your lack of it, your guilt complex. Paul.

[Birch]

What kind of "culture" is your friend into?

 

Here's an example.

 

---------------------quote

AKON LYRICS

 

Smack That Ringtone Send "Smack That" Ringtone to your Cell Smack That Ringtone

 

 

"Smack That"

(feat. Eminem)

 

[Akon:]

Shady

Convict

Upfront

Akon

Slim Shady

 

I see the one, because she be that lady! Hey!

I feel you creeping, I can see it from my shadow

Why don't you jump in my Lamborghini Gallardo

Maybe go to my place and just kick it like TaeBo

And possibly bend you over look back and watch me

 

[Chorus (2X):]

Smack that all on the floor

Smack that give me some more

Smack that 'till you get sore

Smack that oh-oh!

 

Upfront style ready to attack now

Pull in the parking lot slow with the lac down

Convicts got the whole thing packed now

Step in the club now and wardrobe intact now!

I feel it down and cracked now (ooh)

I see it dull and backed now

I'm gonna call her, than I pull the mack down

Money no problem, pocket full of that now!

 

I feel you creeping, I can see it from my shadow

Why don't you jump in my Lamborghini Gallardo

Maybe go to my place and just kick it like TaeBo

And possibly bend you over look back and watch me

 

[Chorus (2x)]

 

[Eminem:]

 

Ooh...Looks like another club banger

They better hang on when they throw this thing on

Get a little drink on

They gonna flip for this Akon shit

You can bank on it!

Pedicure, manicure kitty-cat claws

The way she climbs up and down them poles

Looking like one of them putty-cat dolls

Trying to hold my woodie back through my draws

Steps upstage didn't think I saw

Creeps up behind me and she's like "You're!"

I'm like ya I know lets cut to the chase

No time to waste back to my place

Plus from the club to the crib it's like a mile away

Or more like a palace, shall I say

Plus I got pal if your gal is game

In fact he is the one singing the song that's playing

"Akon!"

 

[Akon:]

I feel you creeping, I can see it from my shadow

Why don't you jump in my Lamborghini Gallardo

Maybe go to my place and just kick it like TaeBo

And possibly bend you over look back and watch me

 

[Chorus]

 

Eminem is rollin', d and em rollin' bo

And all marvelous them rolling

Women just holding big booty rolling'

Soon I'll be on Eminem throwing "D!"

Hitting no less than "Three!"

Block wheel style like "Whee!"

Girl I can tell you want me because lately

 

I feel you creeping, I can see it from my shadow

Why don't you jump in my Lamborghini Gallardo

Maybe go to my place and just kick it like TaeBo

And possibly bend you over look back and watch me

 

[Chorus]

 

------------------------------------------------------quote

 

It's kind of a scary song lyric from my perspective. No time to analyze right now. Is your friend doing well with women in general? If not, go ask someone who is.

 

For the record, I'm a woman and I don't like pain but accept that the world is full of it. Suffering because of that is actually an option. I sometimes wonder if you haven't just idealized women in some way and are suddenly upset because you find out that that's not really how things are. It happens to me all the time (last ideal to fall was the free market) but I tend to get over it faster today than I used to thanks to practice.

 

Wishing you well!

 

Kate

[longrhythm]

I find it HISTERICAL that you, in one breath, call "all women masochists" and Deida a "misogynist".

 

What kind of life do you live Non? Don't you get tired of all your hypothetical doom and gloom?

 

Bottom line, the world will not change for you, no matter how much you complain about it on a Taoist forum. If things look bad to you it is UP TO YOU TO CHANGE YOUR PERSPECTIVE.

 

Figure out what it is you really want, and change your view to suit you so that you can get it.

 

 

And honestly to the rest of us, I think we're doing the guy a disservice by indulging this stuff- it validates him in some strange way. Sometimes someone just needs to ramble to an empty room before a useless notion loses its appeal.

 

Non, cultivate a sense of humor. Fo REAL!

 

 

Nah I think they're ALL into pain, and are masochists and sadists.

 

And forget that David Deida guy, that misogynist.

 

ALL of what you're saying is still supporting the original conclusion my friend and I made.

 

 

About the "men have to make the first move" thing, as well.

 

Men have to risk being labeled a stalker, rapist, criminal, pervert unless she thinks you're 'righteous' for the kind of behavior you exhibit (ie being a bad boy, ashole, etc) but anything she does is considered cute. she couldn't help us out at all, knowing that we could risk our lives, because she could get a bunch of her gangster friends to beat you up or kill you, or you could land in jail for 'sexually assaulting her'/ 'attempted rape'/ 'sexually abusing/molesting' her, etc.

 

But a woman does the same thing, and it's considered cute.

 

It's also usually the guys who actually care for her, and are afraid to scare her off too, that are usually feared of. So a guy basically has to be remorseless.?

 

Don't get me wrong, I do try to make a move when I can, but when I can't, I'll usually try to show it. And again, I just don't want to scare her off. Men are scary, women are not. So wth? Why do I have to risk my life, my job, my career, etc. just for simply showing a girl that I am attracted to her, or just want to talk to her of course depending on how 'bad' your natural character is, when she can do things, 100000 times 'worse' and it's considered ok.

 

Women are obsessed with 'bad-assedness'.

 

Society itself is obsessed with violence and cruelty. Society RUNS on that shit. Most don't even know it.

 

Women should be glad that I'm not all in their face and shit and have some humility, and I'm just trying to be careful. Not, think of me as some weak coward feminine pussy or something, cuz they all like to talk smack about that, about how we don't take action supposedly. We're just trying to be careful and scare you off and do the right thing, we still do understand that we shouldn't take things so harsh, but when our life is on the line? Like I said, I'll try when I can man but I can only do so much.

 

Why can't it be equal? Why do the men have to be the aggressors, and HAVE to be aggressors, why cant it just be assertive? No assertiveness doesn't even work because society thinks assertion is aggression.

[Tao of Pooh]

Men and women who wish to be aware of the whole truth should adopt the practices of the Integral Way. These time-honored disciplines calm the mind and bring one into harmony with all things. The first practice is the practice of undiscriminating virtue: take care of those who are deserving; also, and equally, take care of those who are not. When you extend your virtue in all directions without discriminating, your feet are firmly planted on the path that returns to the Tao. Hua Hu Ching 2

 

[Gerard]

Non,

 

I don't reply to these sort of topics but this time I will from a spiritual perspective, which is the one I know best and got most experience with. I have posted the following stuff in this forum in the past a couple of times, and I hope you find it useful:

 

Reginald Ray¹ relates the 'clear seeing' (vipashyana) of dukkha (suffering) of a student at a rave party, the fruit of their extensive sadhana:

 

A striking example of Vipashyana was provided by a student of mine in her early twenties who had been meditating for some time. Since her late teens, she had been a devotee of "raves," dance parties held at enormous warehouses in our area, attended by literally thousands of young people. Well-known bands are engaged, the music is loud, alcohol and drugs are sometimes consumed, and the dancing goes on until dawn. The atmosphere is said to be usually "mellow" and fun, and the young folks are drawn back to the parties again and again. My student was attending a rave one Saturday night and, for no apparent reason, wanted to feel the cool, the space, and the silence of the night. She left the huge warehouse where the party was happening and walked across an adjacent field onto a a hillock beyond. Turning around, she looked at the building, throbbing with music and blazing with light, packed as it was by several thousand ravers. Suddenly, without warning, it was as if her eyes were opened for the first time and she "saw" the party--so she reported--in all its naked reality. She saw the tremendous desperation of the people inside, their loneliness and hunger, how they had all come there seeking to escape from their suffering. She saw how they had all become predators, preying upon one another, in a fruitless search for happiness. It was an endless game in which, she too, was involved. Overcome by the sorrow and hopelessness of the situation, she broke down and wept. She came to talk to me because, as she said, this experience had shown her something not only about raves, but about life in general, about the many things people do out of their own pain and misery. She told me that she felt, for the first time, the meaning of suffering. She saw her experience as a direct product of her meditation practice and her commitment to her spiritual path. Her experience made her realize, again for the first time, that her meditation was the one anchor in her life and that the spiritual journey she had undertaken was about having her eyes opened, in perhaps shocking and painful ways, to the underpinnings of the seemingly normal, everyday world.

 

 

Non,

 

The person that experienced that was a woman.

 

I have seen the suffering she meant a couple of times, but one day it was exceptional. It happened while I was in a date with a female friend of mine in an area which holds numerous bars and restaurants here in the Gold Coast, Australia. Most of these places are open because the weather here is subtropical. Needless to say there is a lot of pretension but not much allure and lots of alcohol consumption. Well, at one point during our chat and while we were drinking chai tea with soy milk and honey, I got up to stretch my legs and decided to take a quick glance of the people around me, the I looked at the people crossing the street towards our direction; and finally, I looked at the people that were beside us, left and right and people sitting right across on the other side of the street. At that very moment I saw it clearly: I looked at their faces and beneath of each of these humans there was anxiety, sadness, desperation and a cry for help. I saw it so clearly, it was like as if their faces were all one, kind of like the following:

 

 

 

 

Please don't get me wrong and think I saw that; that is only part of the special effects used in a horror flick; what I am trying to describe needs to experienced be personally and it may show up to other spiritual practitioners in a different way.

 

Then at that very moment, my eyes were pouring out tears to the point that I asked my friend to leave because I felt really unwell. She freaked out with me big time to the point I hardly saw her again after that day . I reckon she might have thought I went insane or something like that. Back then she knew I was into spiritual cultivation but not to the point of me being a psychic and very sensitive to various phenomena.

 

After that event I decided to attend a formal Vipassana retreat at least once a year.

 

What I am trying to say is that men and women are equal created (regardless of energetics shaped by yin & yang). They both suffer equally; they both have identical desires, needs and goals. They both have the pretential of becoming a Buddha. All sentient beings do have that ability but humans are in a better position because suffering in this astral plane is just right: not too much like the hellish realms not minimal, like the higher astral planes.

 

Attacking females really means attacking yourself, what you see in the world is only a reflection of yourself.

 

Non, I wish you peace in your heart. Cultivate your mind and realise your true nature, the one you had when you left a woman's womb, your mother, pure and devoid of a self-gratifying mind.

 

 

Notes:

 

1. Ray, Reginald (2002). Indestructible Truth: The Living Spirituality of Tibetan Buddhism. Boston, Massachusetts, USA: Shambhala Publications.

Edited February 22, 2010 by durkhrod chogori