Disturbing conclusion

[Non]

And as far as your practice "not working", I'd say to not be so eager with results. Don't expect them to work like magic. If what you mean is that they're not increasing your success with women, that's not their purpose. That would be a by-product and not a definite one either.

 

If you're not enjoying your practice, do something else. Spiritual practice should be enjoyable. Make love with the universe.

 

I'm gonna go ahead and give the Inner Smile another shout out

 

No, I'm saying they haven't worked to transform my sexual energy whatsoever.

[RyanO]

But you've done 36 days of retention? Most guys I know couldn't accomplish that.

 

If retaining is making things worse I'd say to practice a healthy, sacred, loving, moderate form of masturbation. It's really not as bad as the fundies say.

 

Retaining beyond a month is getting into advanced territory...

[Non]

I probably wouldn't even care that much about my loneliness, or lack of sex or female interaction if society or both men and women in general didn't have to make me feel bad for being alone. ie for instance making sex out to be like some kind of harsh competition where 20 percent of the men get 80 percent of the women and the rest get sloppy (and very sloppy) seconds or left overs. That, and that while there are a vast number of not so good men getting a majority of the good women while good men are left to be alone. It would also make me feel better if I was to be alone by choice. But, the fact is, the reason why I'm this way is because I have no other choice. It's involuntary, and I'm just trying to make the best of it, but retention practices are hard when you have all the above in mind, and that this society is not very conducive or helping. Sex is being thrown around, and a very brutish and hard sexual reality, where it's 'survival of the fittest' and every man for his/herself, and pretty much the only thing that attracts women is how violently aggressive or how much of a baddass you can display to be, or how Violently you can display to beat another male at something. What matters most though is the display just like apes attract attention by loud and proud displays and/or fronts.

 

of course this is not to say that I wouldn't by my own choice choose to indulge in retention practices, but I would most likely make that choice on my own if I already felt kind of satisfied or fulfilled a normal domestic life. it is rather hard to start when you're really young and have not even lived life completely and are forced into it, and not because you have no choice due to some kind of disability of some sort but also due to simply that women 'do not find you fiercely attractive enough'. Which says quite a lot about one's manhood, and general biological well-being and of one's whole life, all the way down perhaps to the soul level.

 

SO yea I feel like they've got me by the freakin balls and are dragging me by them.

Edited February 25, 2010 by Non

[Lucky7Strikes]

More ass.

Edited February 25, 2010 by Lucky7Strikes

[RyanO]

Also check out this website and book: http://www.nomoremrniceguy.com/

 

The title is meant to be humorous but it's pretty interesting. His point is that some men think they are being 'nice' when in fact they are being insecure and trying to manipulate people into liking them. It doesn't work, and 'nice guys' can end up jaded as a result.

 

Edit: Rewording.

Edited February 25, 2010 by RyanO

[Non]

well if that's what you think about helping people, that means anyone who needs help is simply a vampire or parasite. kinda snobbish don't you think? it's like when people betray you when you're going through a rough time but then when things are going better in your life that's when they come to you for help, they just come when they want something from you.

 

ok, if you say so. desperate people in need of help are more dangerous and brutal and actual serial killers and such.

[Lucky7Strikes]

I'm speaking out of my ass.

Edited February 25, 2010 by Lucky7Strikes

[Lucky7Strikes]

Listen to ShaktiMama. I'm stupid.

Edited February 25, 2010 by Lucky7Strikes

[ShaktiMama]

well if that's what you think about helping people, that means anyone who needs help is simply a vampire or parasite. kinda snobbish don't you think? it's like when people betray you when you're going through a rough time but then when things are going better in your life that's when they come to you for help, they just come when they want something from you.

 

ok, if you say so. desperate people in need of help are more dangerous and brutal and actual serial killers and such.

 

 

so here's the honest deal...i know men like you...of all different ages

 

they make my skin crawl...

my wei chi feels dirty and invaded if they come in contact with it so I usually turn away before they can get close enough

 

they believe they are so right in their position that nothing that anyone says can make them change their mind

 

i can think of one man in particular who was continually raped by his mother when he was a child

 

when he gets in near proximity to me...his aggressive neediness feels like someone is crushing me under a ton of bricks. it leaves me exhausted and feeling panicky and terrified... fortunately I have strong, balanced male friends who support me...

 

he refuses to get help cause he knows better than anyone else and he thinks I am the one who is oppressing him and I am the bad person cause I won't help him. He blames me because I won't let him cross my boundaries at the risk of my own personal health and sanity. Why, because to me it feels like rape. Almost evey woman on this planet has been raped or been close to being raped at least once in her life. Women want to feel safe with a man not be afraid they are going to be sucked dry or physical harmed. Your aggressive neediness is scary to women.

 

those are the qualities of the vampire...one feels exhausted, drained, sucked dry of energy in transactions with themfor they do not respect boundaries. and we have been manipulated and shamed by the vampire because we can't do what they want us to perform...quite a bit different than someone who honestly needs some help and will listen to some instruction

 

so honestly, you are an unconscious vampire... you come to this board asking questions over and over again..that have the same theme...

 

no one understands me

women hate me

i need help but I can't get it

but you all don't know how to help me so i am going to tell you why you can't help me so you are all responsible for my sufferring

 

translates into

feed me feed me feed me feed me feed mefeed me feed me feed me feed me feed mefeed me feed me feed me feed me feed mefeed me feed me feed me feed me feed mefeed me feed me feed me feed me feed mefeed me feed me feed me feed me feed mefeed me feed me feed me feed me feed mefeed me feed me feed me feed me feed mefeed me feed me feed me feed me feed mefeed me feed me feed me feed me feed mefeed me feed me feed me feed me feed mefeed me feed me feed me feed me feed mefeed me feed me feed me feed me feed me

 

this is an energy vampires game

 

so since the only way to stop it is to stop giving vampires energy...and one way to do is to stop listening to them

 

last post on this I am going to make on this subject

[Birch]

Maybe want to cut down the retention for a while. It's only adding fuel to fire.

A good therapist will help you transcend "society's fault" issues and more importantly will help you find your way of doing things. Call it "enlightened self interest."

 

Your ideas are only that. Very small scared paper dragons you're shining too much light on.

 

As far as practice goes, I'm with the "all in good time" suggestion. I personally have a lot of dross to kick out and there are days when I feel like total shit. Today for example. This too shall pass.

 

I wont engage you (much) on your take on women but I've heard some of them say EXACTLY the same type of stuff about men. Stop watching shit TV that reinforces your stereotypes for a while.

 

I'd also say you have full advantage, you're young and you can get through this.

 

Kate

[Guest paul walter]

Non--CONTACT ME NOW!! You'll get through it if you talk with people who know what you're going through, not with those who have no idea. It'll be the only concrete 'help' being offered so I suggest you take it-it's free, it's compassionate and IT knows! I know there is no reasoning with your pain/confusion and that's fine since that is the state you are in. If you keep posting others will make your wish come true of being perenially misunderstood and reviled -as it rapidly is. Remember Non, you have no idea of how to have a proper relationship with anyone, not just girls--lets get this show on the road by you establishing one with yourself first and we'll see what we can do together ok. I can't keep telling you I'm your friend when you have no concept of the notion, so just take a breath and take a leap into the idea of getting well/feeling better, ok. DO IT!! Paul

[longrhythm]

I'm sorry man but I gotta say it- you're a total wuss. You are afraid of competing among men and you blame women for inspiring in you a desire to compete.

 

Don't get mad at women for it- you only do it because it feels safer than taking issue with the men who are getting them. That's a cowards way. A man who picks on a woman because he's afraid to pick on a man.

 

Be a man. You feel self destructive? Go start a fight with one of these "alpha males" you're so mad at women for wanting. Maybe you'll violently show how you can beat another man, and actually get some female attention. Or maybe you'll get your ass kicked, and realize you're not so fragile. Maybe you'll grow some balls.

 

Nobody can drag you by the balls til you grow them. Go take all this aggression out on someone your own size. Seriously. Too much sexual frustration, meditation won't help, talking won't help, you gotta take action.

 

I personally like to fight, it's how I blow off steam. Maybe you prefer basketball, football, weight lifting. But whatever it is, BE A MAN and take out your aggression on something a little tougher than women.

 

Cut the crap.

 

 

I probably wouldn't even care that much about my loneliness, or lack of sex or female interaction if society or both men and women in general didn't have to make me feel bad for being alone. ie for instance making sex out to be like some kind of harsh competition where 20 percent of the men get 80 percent of the women and the rest get sloppy (and very sloppy) seconds or left overs. That, and that while there are a vast number of not so good men getting a majority of the good women while good men are left to be alone. It would also make me feel better if I was to be alone by choice. But, the fact is, the reason why I'm this way is because I have no other choice. It's involuntary, and I'm just trying to make the best of it, but retention practices are hard when you have all the above in mind, and that this society is not very conducive or helping. Sex is being thrown around, and a very brutish and hard sexual reality, where it's 'survival of the fittest' and every man for his/herself, and pretty much the only thing that attracts women is how violently aggressive or how much of a baddass you can display to be, or how Violently you can display to beat another male at something. What matters most though is the display just like apes attract attention by loud and proud displays and/or fronts.

 

of course this is not to say that I wouldn't by my own choice choose to indulge in retention practices, but I would most likely make that choice on my own if I already felt kind of satisfied or fulfilled a normal domestic life. it is rather hard to start when you're really young and have not even lived life completely and are forced into it, and not because you have no choice due to some kind of disability of some sort but also due to simply that women 'do not find you fiercely attractive enough'. Which says quite a lot about one's manhood, and general biological well-being and of one's whole life, all the way down perhaps to the soul level.

 

SO yea I feel like they've got me by the freakin balls and are dragging me by them.

[Mal]

We have suspended Non from posting for 7 days (currently) {thank you for hitting report post people}

Non will still be able to read the board and post PM's

 

-Mod Squad-

[Mal]

Non as mentioned TTB is not therapy. In Australia for the cost of a phone call you can contact Lifeline 13 11 14 I'm guessing the US has similar available.

 

"Sometimes it helps to just know that someone is listening, that you never have to be alone" Get in touch with a professional NOW - please.

[MBZ]

I'm sorry man but I gotta say it- you're a total wuss. You are afraid of competing among men and you blame women for inspiring in you a desire to compete.

 

Don't get mad at women for it- you only do it because it feels safer than taking issue with the men who are getting them. That's a cowards way. A man who picks on a woman because he's afraid to pick on a man.

 

Be a man. You feel self destructive? Go start a fight with one of these "alpha males" you're so mad at women for wanting. Maybe you'll violently show how you can beat another man, and actually get some female attention. Or maybe you'll get your ass kicked, and realize you're not so fragile. Maybe you'll grow some balls.

 

Nobody can drag you by the balls til you grow them. Go take all this aggression out on someone your own size. Seriously. Too much sexual frustration, meditation won't help, talking won't help, you gotta take action.

 

I personally like to fight, it's how I blow off steam. Maybe you prefer basketball, football, weight lifting. But whatever it is, BE A MAN and take out your aggression on something a little tougher than women.

 

Cut the crap.

 

You LIKE to fight??? Common bro, as much as I disagree with that one, it's certainly your perogative to do something as stupid as that but to basically advise others to do the same is irresponsible. That's the last thing he needs to do.

 

BLESSINGS!!!

[longrhythm]

I totally disagree. I'm a boxer and as far as I understand, martial art and cultivation are closely related very far back. Isn't there a martial application for Tai Chi?

 

It's just a means of sublimating sexual energy. And if Tao is nature and we strive to live within it how do you seperate physical conflict from the bigger picture?

 

Regardless my advice was to find a physical outlet, engage in healthy male competition, whether my preferred method or another.

 

And just to address your choice of words, the only stupid fight is the one you aren't prepared for. Personally I think it's smart to have the foresight to be experienced and prepared for physical conflict.

 

To each their own, although I bet you've never been sucker punched.

 

You LIKE to fight??? Common bro, as much as I disagree with that one, it's certainly your perogative to do something as stupid as that but to basically advise others to do the same is irresponsible. That's the last thing he needs to do.

 

BLESSINGS!!!

[MBZ]

I totally disagree. I'm a boxer and as far as I understand, martial art and cultivation are closely related very far back. Isn't there a martial application for Tai Chi?

 

It's just a means of sublimating sexual energy. And if Tao is nature and we strive to live within it how do you seperate physical conflict from the bigger picture?

 

Regardless my advice was to find a physical outlet, engage in healthy male competition, whether my preferred method or another.

 

And just to address your choice of words, the only stupid fight is the one you aren't prepared for. Personally I think it's smart to have the foresight to be experienced and prepared for physical conflict.

 

To each their own, although I bet you've never been sucker punched.

Look bro, your obviously intelligent and I totally agree with the physical outlet call, but exclaiming you like to fight isn't something to put into a reply to someone who seems a little unstable and might decide to follow that part of your advice. I'm sure you can see where I'm coming from. As for my martial arts training, it ain't tai chi...I'm trained in muay thai, a blue belt in gracie barra brazilian jiu-jitsu, and I also train with Bruce Lee's first student Jesse Glover, that said, I try and avoid fights at all costs and haven't been in one in about 3 yrs. Maybe I misunderstood you and you meant that you liked to spar? If so, my bad!

 

BLESSINGS!!!

[MBZ]

I totally disagree. I'm a boxer and as far as I understand, martial art and cultivation are closely related very far back. Isn't there a martial application for Tai Chi?

 

It's just a means of sublimating sexual energy. And if Tao is nature and we strive to live within it how do you seperate physical conflict from the bigger picture?

 

Regardless my advice was to find a physical outlet, engage in healthy male competition, whether my preferred method or another.

 

And just to address your choice of words, the only stupid fight is the one you aren't prepared for. Personally I think it's smart to have the foresight to be experienced and prepared for physical conflict.

 

To each their own, although I bet you've never been sucker punched.

Oh, and there is another stupid fight, the one you start!

 

BLESSINGS!!!

[markern]

Non, your thinking about bad guys and women and nice guys are just plain wrong. Most guys get girlfriends and have, if they wish, casual sex from time to time. If they are not very attractive in some sense or keep trying a lot they will probably have less sex than they would want but mostly they do just fine. Most guys are nice guys, certainly not bad guys. Of the people I know that are extraordinarily successfull with women only a couple, not the majority, are bad guys. Sure bad guys on average do better than the average guy but who cares when you can be just as successfull at attracting women in other ways. They are also used a lot more for casual sex then for relationships. As I have said before, at charismaarts.com they can teach you to be tremendously successfull with women while being only NICE. If you look at some of the reviews of private coaching with Juggler you will see that wherever he goes he charmes everyone. People are fascinated with him and drawn to him and women through themselves at him but he is still only nice. He also has immense social power while still being only nice. I can`t remember if he was a virgin untill he was in his twenties but at least he was a disaster with women. It is all learnt behaviour. Most of his coaches have the same story.

 

Most of the friends I have that are very successfull with women never, ever aproach strangers on the street, in stores or in clubs or bars. They mostly meet girls through social sircle stuff and various activities. If those guys aproached random women most of them would get blown out quickly despite their attractiveness. Why? because they would get nervous and would seem aproval seeking and have troble figuring out what to say.

 

What you need to do is meet people through context where it is natural and expected of you to talk and get to know other people and where you will interact with them regulary for a long time. A martial arts or meditation group for example or voluntair work for some organisation. You already do some of this stuff. It is through regular interaction with people in these contexts that you will meet people that will give you a chance. Girls on the streets will not. If you work on your own mind and cultivation and you get therapy and you start conciously working on social skills (for example inspired by juggler) in these settings then you will develop the necesary skills in these contexts for getting friends. Once you have gotten these skills and have gotten friends only then will it be meaningfull to think about picking up women. When you have gotten that far you will be able to start having sucess with aproaching women on the street. Not before! You are trying to do kung fu before you have learned to walk. It is like you are trying to raise your kundalini before you have even felt chi.

 

I highly recomend you read the no more mister nice guy book. It seems to describe very acurately where you are right now.

 

It is also wrong to think that people are unhelpfull and unkind because they do not want to give you a chance when you try to talk to them. I am plenty helpfull. I spend quite a lot of time helping people. OFten I do not like it but do it because it feels right. But if some stranger starts talking to me in the streat and he seems to give of a vibe that is needy, insecure, not genuinly friendly I get suspicions and very scared of getting stuck in a situation where I have to politely participate in an akward conversation that I do not like for hours only to then have that person start calling me and wanting to hang out all the time when I do not even like them or enjoy it. I want to stop such a situation as early as possible to save me the trouble. If I had not done so in the past I would have had 10 "friends" that where not my friends that would take up all my time. Why on earht would I do that? You seem to think that these people should magicly understand exactly hwat you rsituation is and help you along in the conversation to help you improve. But they are afraid of what I just described. They also do not know you and people are vary of strangers for good reason. A lot of people are psycho or just not nice. If you want to help someone in a way that brings them into your life you need to have some assurance that this will not mess up your own life. You would also have to know that this person actually needed your help and wanted it. How are these girls to know that you are up for social training from them? Most people would be insulted by the offer. These girls that you see as so evil will often be on their way to help their grandmother instead of hanging with friends or they spend hours on the phone comforting their buddy who is depressed after not getting into the college he wanted etc.

 

Let me repeat this: NICE GUYS GET PLENTY GIRLS NICE GUYS GET PLENTY GIRLS NICE GUYS GET PLENTY GIRLS NICE GUYS GET PLENTY GIRLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

SUre you need a basic level of confidence to not seem creepy but that is something COMPLETELY different from cockiness.

 

As I have said before, once you are in regular therapy I will gladly pay for one coaching session with a charismaarts coach but it should focus on regular friendly interaction to get friends not girls.

[RyanO]

I agree with markern. The truth is "bad vs nice" is the wrong dichotomy. It's really more about approval seeking.

 

Some guys make the mistake of acting "nice" towards women, instead of being genuine, as a form of approval seeking.

 

Actually, jerks get girls in spite of their jerkiness, because they are confident and comfortable with themselves and are in touch with their yang energy.

 

Yang energy is the polarizing force that causes sexual attraction.

 

Men are able to have attractive yang energy and have heart at the same time.

 

There are often deep seated psychological reasons for the 'nice guy' syndrome. Again see here: http://www.nomoremrniceguy.com/

 

Perhaps this book might help you reevaluate Deida's work, which I know you have issues with but I think is worthwhile.

 

Also, I second the charismaarts recommendation. I know you have issues with the PUA scene as well. It does have its shortcomings, but being playful with women is important.

 

Hell, being playful with life is important.

Edited February 26, 2010 by RyanO

[gendao]

Let me repeat this: NICE GUYS GET PLENTY GIRLS NICE GUYS GET PLENTY GIRLS NICE GUYS GET PLENTY GIRLS NICE GUYS GET PLENTY GIRLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Evidence, please? And I mean in Non's Gen-Y today, not old couples from 50 years ago...

 

Now if you look at the men in recent history who have gotten the most & hottest women - let's say Wilt Chamberlain, Elvis Presley, Dennis Rodman, Tommy Lee, Tiger Woods, etc...the common denominators are that they were all powerful alpha males at the top of their respective fields. These fields were in either music or sports. Their displays of physical or emotional mastery are what turned women uncontrollably on. And once turned on, any "flaws" (married, cheating, lying, etc) could be forgiven. IOW, it didn't really matter at that point if these guys were nice or mean, good or bad. Once her gina's dripping wet, all of that become inconsequential.

 

So I think nice guys could get girls, but it has little to do with them being nice - but how much they turn girls on. Everything else is really just a red herring.

 

Thus, I think Non has painted himself into a false dilemna here. He wants to get girls, but ONLY as a genuine, nice guy - which he feels is basically impossible since they only like "bad boys." Thus, he sees no ethical way out. He's either stuck as a dateless nice guy...or must sell-out as a bad boy to get girls.

 

However, my thesis is that the nice/bad guy paradigm is ultimately a false one (although there is often some correlation there). And that if you are physically powerful or emotionally evocative and can turn a girl on - the rest doesn't matter anymore. And PU could actually help him improve these aspects of himself. It's not about being bad...and definitely not just nice...but sexy (although that's no easy feat, either ).

[Apech]

I just want to say ... it doesn't matter. Do your practice, follow your interests, have fun ... try to do good. Stop stressing about all this crap.

 

Thank you.

 

A.

[Stigweard]

I just want to say ... it doesn't matter. Do your practice, follow your interests, have fun ... try to do good. Stop stressing about all this crap.

 

Thank you.

 

A.

Word

[trailmaker]

Word

 

 

self-aggrandize - self-efface - the Way?

[That Guy]

I just think it should be noted that the stories of nice guys getting girls doesnt really have the impact as bad boys treating them badly, so chances are you're less likely to hear about it, and if you do hear about it it will be brief.

 

Example:

 

Bad guy story...

"omg! did you hear Johnny cheated of Sheryl with Linda."

"WOW really?! what a pig, tell me more!"

"Well he went to a party saturday night, got sooo fucking drunk, next think we know him and Linda are all over each other"

Scandal scandal gossip gossip

 

 

Nice guy story....

"So anything interesting going on...?"

"hmmm not really, well actually Sheryl started going out with Mike"

"oh, thats cool, Mike is a nice guy"

"Yeah"

THE END