From Zazen to the Microcosmic Orbit.

[balance.]

Edited October 18, 2010 by balance.

[Encephalon]

As I've only recently beamed down here... some basic history of mine seems like a helpful addition to this first serious post of mine.... and so it begins.

 

For the last two years, although I've certainly strayed from the grind from time to time (Don't we all?), I've maintained daily Zazen practice.. A routine supplemented by a fitness regimen that I've pilfered from the troves of Pavel and Crossfit (amongst others)...... My physical work has a more far-reaching history than my spiritual pursuits.. And it was through looking for superior methods to harmonize my movement, muscle and bone that I began to search for practices with longer fingers and deeper influences... it wasn't long before I found myself shanghaied by Zen Buddhist theory, and soon after, delving into its practice... It's within this spirit that I've walked for the last two years. Recently though, I've wanted to expand my horizons... looking to endow myself with a fresh and more informed perspective... And so it's to the Tao and it's concepts and practices that I've turned my attention... A change of pace I've found both refreshing and exciting.

 

I will continue to go deeper (Into the Tao), but understand that my knowledge and understanding thus far is only cursory... but within the few, shallow dives that I've taken into this vast pool of knowledge, I can't help but make note of the tremendous emphasis placed upon energy manipulation and movement.. and also, the apparent embodiment of this ideal, the Micro-Cosmic Orbit.

 

As I'm eager to learn more, and to launch upon this new voyage well equipped with cautionary and helpful tales from the locals.. I'm hoping that someone (though certainly not limited to the solitary individual haha) could explain why learning to manipulate your energy is so important within the Taoist context... and perhaps the benefits aptitude in such an area offers... Feel free to pass on any other bits of information you think the greenhorn may benefit from. I'm eager to learn and begin.

 

Oh, and as both a disclaimer and an nod to the Taoist prevailing winds here, I'd like to stress that I'm not attempting (nor interested) in proving (as if such a thing were possible anyway) the superiority of one path over the next, only looking to broaden my understanding.

 

 

thank you.

 

Okay. From one Pavel-Head to another, between deadlifts and kettlebell swings, here goes.

 

Certain physiological changes will have occured by the time you can "run your energy," many of them supported by your physical routine already. If your strength hasn't outpaced your flexibility, if you can hang loose and not tighten up, you will have the capacity for deep levels of relaxation, the kind that will allow you to slip from "fight or flight" response (sympathetic Nervous Sys.) into "rest and digest" mode(parasympathetic NS). Along with proper breathing techniques and deeply oxygenate your bloodstream, the entire hormonal chemistry of your body switches into deep-healing mode. Your nervous system, the intersection of body and mind, gets freakishly efficient at transmitting information between the two. By learning to run your energy at will, you seize the reigns of your own healing process, with all the psychological and spiritual implications that entails.

 

So, you probably have heard about how millions of devoted yogis in India and elsewhere lament that practice of harnessing the power of yoga for improved sports performance. Likewise, it would be kind of a drag if Taoism got reduced to a hip new training methodology. Nevertheless, in our pursuit of body/mind union, there are huge advantages in working through the body to the mind.

 

Just my own spin. For the record, I subscribe to Pavel's strength theories, and am convinced that strength training can build up mind/muscle connection more quickly than other forms of training. Then it's a relatively short and pleasant trip to mind/body connection, and I'm pretty sure it's because of the strong muscles to relax most easily.

 

Pavel's "Relax Into Stretch" is pretty darn handy, too, btw.

Edited February 22, 2010 by Blasto

[balance.]

Edited October 18, 2010 by balance.

[markern]

Quite a lot of people, several KAP students for example, report that they get quite a bit physicaly stronger jsut from their meditations and breathing rpactices. Santiago says that five point breathing combined with Tummo naturally gives you a lot of iron shirt development (able to withstand blows to the body). Glenn Morris wrote that he and most others who go through Kundalini get A LOT stronger, way more suple and smooth and much faster in reactions and better in control of the body, and better able to withstand blows. That is just from having the kundalini awaken, move arround, heal some stuff and find its place in the body not from conciously doing this or that with it. Read dr. Morris` Path Notes book if you are interested it is great, not only for martial aritsts.

[Creation]

Hi balance.

Sorry about the delay, I was in a no posting cycle when this thread appeared.

 

AAnd it was through looking for superior methods to harmonize my movement,and strengthen muscle and bone that I began to search for practices with longer fingers and deeper influences... it wasn't long before I found myself shanghaied by Zen Buddhist theory, and soon after, delving into its practice... It's within this spirit that I've walked for the last two years.

Given this description, I think you would be VERY interested in the work of Peter Ralston:

http://www.amazon.com/Zen-Body-Being-Enlightened-Approach-Physical/dp/1583941592/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1267129662&sr=8-3

http://www.amazon.com/Cheng-Hsin-Principles-Effortless-Power/dp/1556433026/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1267129662&sr=8-5

http://www.amazon.com/Book-Not-Knowing-Exploring-Consciousness/dp/1556438575/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1267129662&sr=8-1

 

As I'm eager to learn more, and to launch upon this new voyage well equipped with cautionary and helpful tales from the locals.. I'm hoping that someone (though certainly not limited to the solitary individual haha) could explain why learning to manipulate your energy is so important within the Taoist context... and perhaps the benefits aptitude in such an area offers... Feel free to pass on any other bits of information you think the greenhorn may benefit from. I'm eager to learn and begin.

Well, if you want to be able to use energy (for martial arts, healing, or whatever), you have to be able to manipulate it. No big conundrum there. As for why running qi around the microcosmic orbit is so emphasized, know that it is not emphasized in all schools and even in those where it is it is only done to get the path firmly established, and then there is no need to consciously run it as a regular cultivation practice anymore. Of course, you might still run it for some reason, but not just for the sake of doing it.

[gendao]

Taoist neidan combines the cultivation of one's true nature (Zen mind) with eternal life energy.

 

So, you're already halfway there..

 

If you already have an empty mind in meditation, now just add intent down at your dantian to cultivate your energy too.

[RyanO]

Taoist neidan combines the cultivation of one's true nature (Zen mind) with eternal life energy.

 

 

I was thinking about how cool this is yesterday. I think the common conception of the emptiness state is that it's stale and lifeless, when in fact the opposite is true: it gets one in touch with powerful spirals of chi.

[Aetherous]

Taoist neidan combines the cultivation of one's true nature (Zen mind) with eternal life energy.

 

Perhaps the greatest thing ever said on this forum.

[RyanO]

This quote from yogi Erich Schiffman has always stuck with me:

 

"You imagine a spinning top. Stillness is like a perfectly centered top, spinning so fast it appears motionless. It appears this way not because it isn't moving, but because it's spinning at full speed. Stillness is not the absence or negation of energy, life, or movement. Stillness is dynamic. It is unconflicted movement, life in harmony with itself, skill in action. It can be experienced whenever there is total, uninhibited, unconflicted participation in the moment you are in - when you are wholeheartedly present with whatever you are doing."

 

from: http://www.movingintostillness.com/book/meditation_moving_into_stillness.html

[balance.]

Hi balance.

Sorry about the delay, I was in a no posting cycle when this thread appeared.

 

 

Given this description, I think you would be VERY interested in the work of Peter Ralston:

http://www.amazon.com/Zen-Body-Being-Enlightened-Approach-Physical/dp/1583941592/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1267129662&sr=8-3

http://www.amazon.com/Cheng-Hsin-Principles-Effortless-Power/dp/1556433026/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1267129662&sr=8-5

http://www.amazon.com/Book-Not-Knowing-Exploring-Consciousness/dp/1556438575/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1267129662&sr=8-1

 

 

Well, if you want to be able to use energy (for martial arts, healing, or whatever), you have to be able to manipulate it. No big conundrum there. As for why running qi around the microcosmic orbit is so emphasized, know that it is not emphasized in all schools and even in those where it is it is only done to get the path firmly established, and then there is no need to consciously run it as a regular cultivation practice anymore. Of course, you might still run it for some reason, but not just for the sake of doing it.

 

 

Taoist neidan combines the cultivation of one's true nature (Zen mind) with eternal life energy.

 

So, you're already halfway there..

 

If you already have an empty mind in meditation, now just add intent down at your dantian to cultivate your energy too.

 

 

I was thinking about how cool this is yesterday. I think the common conception of the emptiness state is that it's stale and lifeless, when in fact the opposite is true: it gets one in touch with powerful spirals of chi.

 

 

This quote from yogi Erich Schiffman has always stuck with me:

 

"You imagine a spinning top. Stillness is like a perfectly centered top, spinning so fast it appears motionless. It appears this way not because it isn't moving, but because it's spinning at full speed. Stillness is not the absence or negation of energy, life, or movement. Stillness is dynamic. It is unconflicted movement, life in harmony with itself, skill in action. It can be experienced whenever there is total, uninhibited, unconflicted participation in the moment you are in - when you are wholeheartedly present with whatever you are doing."

 

from: http://www.movingintostillness.com/book/meditation_moving_into_stillness.html

 

 

 

 

Woah, I leave for a few days, basking in the sunshine and salt water of the Florida Keys... and I return to find this post inundated with great responses that all provide me with new threads to follow up on...

 

Markern:

 

Is Kundalini the same thing as chi? Just another term for internal energy?

 

And is this the book of which you spoke? http://www.amazon.com/Path-Notes-American-Ninja-Master/dp/1556431570/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1267478654&sr=1-1

 

Creation:

 

Yes. Your post was indeed rather long in the making, but it seems to me that it was well worth it. I've just informed Amazon of my desire to possess all three books... and so I'll be absorbing all of them soon.. My zen practice has by and large been separated from my physical cultivation, so I'm excited to read into this integrated approach. I find it interesting how things I've seen as generally disparate end up proving to be part and parcel... though I suppose that's true of most everything (if not everything..) ... That is, the illusion of division.

 

The benefits derived from conscious manipulation certainly do seem to be manifold... and being able to apply that knowledge to enhance your own path is tremendous.. So thank you for further emphasizing gray area.

 

As for the Microcosmic Orbit, am I right then in seeing it only as a milestone in internal development? And what about not needing to consciously spin your energy within the orbit after you've gained sufficient proficiency? Is that in the vain of muscle memory or never forgetting how to ride a bike? Once you've developed the orbit enough, it continues to spin without you consciously guiding it...? ...allowing you to divert your attention to other areas of the body?

 

Vortex:

 

Neidan? I've only become familiar with the term quite recently... knowing only that part of the practice is to develop qi within the body and then lead it to the limbs to strengthen them.. but I'm curious if you could expand upon it, or point in me a direction where I could learn more myself.... Or is qi naturally developed and distributed by focusing upon my elixir field while meditating? Thank you.

 

RyanO:

 

I was not at all under the impression that Zazen, or emptiness practice was "Lifeless and stale.." ..And I'm sorry if that was the impression I happened to give, but I was only looking to better understand why Taoism emphasizes the importance of conscious manipulation of energy while Zazen emphasizes only the breath, or depending upon the practice, Koans.

 

Reading farther up to the quote you've given me by Erich Schiffman, I feel that we're both on the same page with regards to personal perceptions of stillness/emptiness practices. Breath and energy are, of course, interrelated.. and it's my feeling that Zazen accomplishes a great deal of energy development by focusing on the inhalation and exhalation of the breath.. or the rising and falling of the tide of energy... the cycles Taoist meditation seeks to start in motion may start naturally within Zazen... From what little I've come to learn about Taoist meditative practices, it seems that many coming to such methods for the first time might find focusing on both the breath (learning to still the mind) and the manipulation of energy a bit confusing and heavy.. As Vortex alluded to, Zen could provide the strong foundation necessary for successful energy practice.

 

Scotty:

 

You've given me yet one more reason to pursue Neidan practice in great depth... and I'll ask you as I did Vortex if you could please point me in the direction of some literature so I could move further upon this path. Thank you.

[RyanO]

Hey balance, just wanted to say that I didn't mean that you thought of the emptiness state like that. In fact, your posting proves just the opposite.

 

By 'common conception' I meant the average person who doesn't know much about this stuff. It's easy to misunderstand these terms.

 

Peace,

 

Ryan