Pain and Energy

[Makyea]

Alright let me start of by saying I do not know much about energy at all. For my whole life I have been able to feel my blood, my inside move around as I move, and the electricity in my brain move around. Lately this feeling has become pain. The pain comes and goes an my doctors have done plenty of tests on me without finding a reason for it. I looked on here and thought maybe it could be energy. The pain has been around my ribcage. One pain around my heart, another in my side, and then the pain when I change position(I can feel the organs moving and it hurts). The pains come and go without warning or any cause I can think of. So could this be an energy problem? If so how can I fix it?

(I have tried meds and they did not work, I have also tried increasing and decreasing exercise and neither helped)

[NeiChuan]

Have you been doing qi gong? If so have you been doing closings?

[Makyea]

Have you been doing qi gong? If so have you been doing closings?

No I have not been doing Qigong

[NeiChuan]

Well you could try "exhaling" it out. Visualizing it leaving and then visualizing cleaner better air/energy coming in down into the abdomen.

 

 

I've had the same pain in the ribs cage/same areas but only twice has it been bad enough to think something of it. The only thing I can think of related is strong breathing when relaxed or in meditation. I remember around the time when I was doing a breathing method I would either stronger a big too much exhaling or start an inhale way to fast, later resulting in pain.

 

Just thought I'd say incase you would find something related.

[Tao of Pooh]

Pain is usualy stuck/blocked energy or in a case of healing can also be part of the detox but should not take ages to disapear.

 

I would suggest an easy to do Ki-breathing exhercise which will help you in cleansing stagnant energies and keeping the fresh Ki flow run through your whole being.

For best results do it once a day for 15-20 minutes in the morning or just before bed time. I do it in the morning after my Qigong excercise.

http://ki-aikido.net/KASHIWAYA/Excerpts.html#HowToKiBreathing

 

Do you drink planty of water ? If not start drinking 2 litres per day, we humans easily forget to drink enough water.

[Trunk]

Sounds like "Liver chi stagnation". Likely that a dr of chinese medicine could easily, and relatively cheaply, fix this. (Unlikely that western drs could do anything but be puzzled. )

 

If you wanted to work some on it yourself you could do various self acupressure (lots of various would help), especially the Liver channel.

 

Ideally though, you'd go to a dr of Chinese medicine (acupuncturist), get a treatment/s, plus also tell that dr that you'd like recommendations of which acupoints and channels you could self-massage at home in addition to the in-office treatment the s/he would give you.

 

- Trunk

 

p.s.

Per the Ch.medicine view of how the seasons influence the body, this could become especially exacerbated during the spring time. I really suggest that you consider the above strategy right away.

 

It's almost as if you're reading right down the list from a Ch. medical textbook, which is a good sign for resolution via that modality.

For my whole life I have been able to feel ... Lately this feeling has become pain. The pain comes and goes .. around my ribcage. .. heart, another in my side, ..

[Aetherous]

It can take a really long time to heal the body and not have any pain. Maybe years of work. Also, as you heal you become more sensitive, so maybe pain never fully goes away.

 

I like others' suggestions. Drinking water is so important.

 

Bowen Therapy (sometimes called Bowenwork) is a really interesting treatment to try. I had it done once and it worked pretty well. Swedish massage may be a bit too rough.

 

Baolin Wu's Qigong for Total Wellness gives a good routine of different self massages and movements. A very good one for liver stagnation is to stand on your left leg, then kick the calf from top to bottom with the right foot for a few minutes...then switch legs. You may notice that later in the day, you anger more easily (anger is related to the liver meridian).

 

(In Taoism, it's good to experience your emotions. We release it rather than hold it inside...but at the same time, it's important to be a good person and not start screaming at your friends and family or something )

 

Studying trigger points and massaging and stretching yourself can be useful sometimes, but it won't take care of everything. Here is my favorite book on it.

 

The best thing that's worked for me is using a stress eraser for 100 points a day. Relaxation is the key to releasing what holds you in tension.

 

Also, exercise is good...keep it up! It's not necessary to wear yourself out, like some people do at the gym. Just moving your muscles around in any way you like helps you heal.

Edited February 22, 2010 by Scotty

[Ya Mu]

Alright let me start of by saying I do not know much about energy at all. For my whole life I have been able to feel my blood, my inside move around as I move, and the electricity in my brain move around. Lately this feeling has become pain. The pain comes and goes an my doctors have done plenty of tests on me without finding a reason for it. I looked on here and thought maybe it could be energy. The pain has been around my ribcage. One pain around my heart, another in my side, and then the pain when I change position(I can feel the organs moving and it hurts). The pains come and go without warning or any cause I can think of. So could this be an energy problem? If so how can I fix it?

(I have tried meds and they did not work, I have also tried increasing and decreasing exercise and neither helped)

I find that salt baths using one lb of salt help with many folk's pain. I take tumeric and fish oil, this seems to help. An Asian Bodywork therapist or TCM doctor should be able to help. I can help with Taoist Medicine therapy if you are ever in my neck of the woods.

[gendao]

Alright let me start of by saying I do not know much about energy at all. For my whole life I have been able to feel my blood, my inside move around as I move, and the electricity in my brain move around. Lately this feeling has become pain. The pain comes and goes an my doctors have done plenty of tests on me without finding a reason for it. I looked on here and thought maybe it could be energy. The pain has been around my ribcage. One pain around my heart, another in my side, and then the pain when I change position(I can feel the organs moving and it hurts). The pains come and go without warning or any cause I can think of. So could this be an energy problem? If so how can I fix it?

Western allopathic doctors are not going to be able to diagnose any energetic disorders or even many odd general detoxing processes that don't have clinical names. Often good to still give them a shot though just to cover the bases...

 

But if they find nothing (or regardless), I would go find a good energetic healer for some diagnosis and treatment.

 

Then later on, as you develop your own abilities through your own practice, you will be better able to fix it yourself. And if you already have this degree of fine sensitivity, you will actually probably be a natural and quite talented at qigong.

[Makyea]

Western allopathic doctors are not going to be able to diagnose any energetic disorders or even many odd general detoxing processes that don't have clinical names. Often good to still give them a shot though just to cover the bases...

 

But if they find nothing (or regardless), I would go find a good energetic healer for some diagnosis and treatment.

 

Then later on, as you develop your own abilities through your own practice, you will be better able to fix it yourself. And if you already have this degree of fine sensitivity, you will actually probably be a natural and quite talented at qigong.

This is what I was thinking. They have poked, prodded, and x-rayed me without any explanation. Any advice on how to find a good energetic healer?

[markern]

Google mindfulness baseds stress reduction. It is an extreemly well reseached meditation program tought in hospitals++. It started as an atempt to reduce the pain of pasients with extreeme and chronic pain that had not found help in conventional medicine. The patients had an average of 8 years of other treatments with little effect. Within two months of mindfulness meditation the pain was reduced by arround 40-50% in addition to various other benefits such as a well researched and quite massive jump in happiness and immune function. Also the patients reported being able to cope with the pain that was left much, much better. Pain could still be there but not be perceived as much of a problem. Shinzen young has written a book about how that mechanism works and parts of it can be read on his webpage. The initial pain of life is inevitable but most of what we experience as problematic is the suffering we add to this because we resist and do not want it. Once we let go pain will not necesarilly be so bad. I have sat with horrible pains in my legs, almost unbearble at times, when I meditate and after ten to fifteen minutes I have often been able to just be present in the pain without resistance. Once I do that at least 90% or more of what I felt was a problem was gone but the pain is still there. It is just that it is more like a phenomen that I observe, there is pain but no one who suffers because of it kind of. this is not denial but the oposite. It comes from going head first into the pain and experiencing it fully without resistence. Then things just are and Suffering goes away but pain stays and we find that most of what we perceive as inevitable pain is optional suffering. Shinzen young goes into depth on the pain vs suffering distinction. In a way this is all at least budhism is about. Just be and suffering goes away. You will not be without pain (the buddha has lots of pain on old age) but suffering is the real problem and it can be let go of. Same thing with emotional pain. Even enlightened people experience emotional pain. But without attatchment they do not experience the added suffering that is most of the problem. In a way they experience more emotional pain than others because they are so present to whatever happens and is felt but it just does not bother them all that much. A lot of this is available at lower levels of meditation and mindfulness training as well.

[z00se]

Even enlightened people experience emotional pain. But without attatchment they do not experience the added suffering that is most of the problem. In a way they experience more emotional pain than others because they are so present to whatever happens and is felt but it just does not bother them all that much. A lot of this is available at lower levels of meditation and mindfulness training as well.

 

I don't believe enlightened people experience emotional pain. When i've been practicing lots something like almost breaking up with a very long term girlfriend gave me absolutely no emotions at all. My emotional feeling was like it was nothing, like i didn't care at all it was just happening infront of my eyes. I didn't like the experience of not feeling anything and consciously began trying to feel sad and smoking cigarettes and drinking so that i would begin to have some 'feeling'. It only took me a day or so but i really had to try to make myself sad. I didn't care and i didn't want to throw away so many years of being together with her just by seeming cold and uncaring. Thankfully we are still together and i think showing some emotion did help.

 

If you look at the movie someone posted about a real enlightened person (forget his name probably only a couple of pages back in the list "The real deal" or something post) he says that he didn't get a single feeling for nearly 10 years. It took him years of sitting and watching tv and reading newspapers to get his first feeling back.

[Sloppy Zhang]

I know I keep repeating this across almost all threads, but seriously, "Opening the Energy Gates of Your Body" by B.K. Frantzis teaches an excellent method to not only feel your energy, but release tension and blockages in your physical and your energetic body.

 

You will start to feel how everything is connected, and you will eventually be able to directly feel how various TCM channel work is helping, and what areas you need to focus on.

 

The fact that you can feel your own blood and the electricity in your brain means you have a good potential for feeling inside of yourself, which is perfect for Frantzis' method

[markern]

I don't believe enlightened people experience emotional pain. When i've been practicing lots something like almost breaking up with a very long term girlfriend gave me absolutely no emotions at all. My emotional feeling was like it was nothing, like i didn't care at all it was just happening infront of my eyes. I didn't like the experience of not feeling anything and consciously began trying to feel sad and smoking cigarettes and drinking so that i would begin to have some 'feeling'. It only took me a day or so but i really had to try to make myself sad. I didn't care and i didn't want to throw away so many years of being together with her just by seeming cold and uncaring. Thankfully we are still together and i think showing some emotion did help.

 

If you look at the movie someone posted about a real enlightened person (forget his name probably only a couple of pages back in the list "The real deal" or something post) he says that he didn't get a single feeling for nearly 10 years. It took him years of sitting and watching tv and reading newspapers to get his first feeling back.

 

Then you were doing something wrong and so was he. My teacher says taht noen of the bodhisatvas he met when he was a monk in the Tibetan tradition were free from emotional pain just from suffering. The Zen tradition is crystall clear on emotional pain not going away. If you read Jack Kornfields a Wise heart budhist psychology for the west it is also absolutely clear that budhism does not see emotional pain, only suffering, as going away. If you go to Dharmaoverground and ask the people there that have achieved first, second, third or fourth path they will all confirm that it does not go way. Shinzen young writes about this as well on his homepage in one of his articles. A lot of people interperate equanimity as indiffrence or feeling nothing whereas in reality it is about to fullest most unhindered experience of feeling. As far as I remember indifference is listed as the near enemy of non attatchement in Budhism meaning it is somehow close to it but still its enemy and oposite. The Dalai Lama cries frequently and gets sad frequently but he is still fundamentally happy beneath that at the same time and he recovers VERY quickly. That is the correct way not being a zombie or so much of a bliss junkie that you can not take in what is happening arround you. After the Extacy the Laundry by Jack Kornfield deals with exactly these things. He came home from Asia after having gotten really far and thought he was above regular emotions etc. but found that this was an illusion.

 

Here is Shinzens article about equaniity:

 

http://www.shinzen.org/shinsub3/artEquanimity.pdf

Edited February 24, 2010 by markern

[joeblast]

A lot of people interperate equanimity as indiffrence or feeling nothing whereas in reality it is about to fullest most unhindered experience of feeling.

 

"the Xin is the master of the entire body, the commander of hundred spirits. When it is calm, wisdom is generated and when it is moving, then confusion is initiated. Bewildered or not is decided within the moving, or the calmness."

 

Perhaps its easy to misinterpret "unperturbed" as "indifferent"?

 

 

When I saw the topic I was thinking on a more physical level - i.e. when my back is bad, it is most certainly a significant energy drain.

Edited February 24, 2010 by joeblast

[z00se]

Then you were doing something wrong and so was he. My teacher says taht noen of the bodhisatvas he met when he was a monk in the Tibetan tradition were free from emotnal paioin just from suffering. The Zen tradition is crystall clear on emotional pain not going away. If you read Jack Kornfields a Wise heart budhist psychology for the west it is also absolutely clear that budhism does not see emotional pain, only suffering, as going away. If you go to Dharmaoverground and ask the people there that have achieved first, second, third or fourth path they will all confirm that it does not go way. Shinzen young writes about this as well on his homepage in one of his articles. A lot of people interperate equanimity as indiffrence or feeling nothing whereas in reality it is about to fullest most unhindered experience of feeling. As far as I remember indifference is listed as the near enemy of non attatchement in Budhism meaning it is somehow close to it but still its enemy and oposite. The Dalai Lama cries frequently and gets sad frequently but he is still fundamentally happy beneath that at the same time and he recovers VERY quickly. That is the correct way not being a zombie or so much of a bliss junkie that you can not take in what is happening arround you. After the Extacy the Laundry by Jack Kornfield deals with exactly these things. He came home from Asia after having gotten really far and thought he was above regular emotions etc. but found that this was an illusion.

 

Here is Shinzens article about equaniity:

 

http://www.shinzen.org/shinsub3/artEquanimity.pdf

 

Since all the literature you have mentioned i guess you are fairly well learned in these things. I'm not so it's quiet possible i'm doing it wrong most of my time has been spent in practice. I've read the pdf article you posted and i've got some thoughts for you.

 

When you start to have an emotion comming, there is a change of energy within your body (always) and usually some tension. Releasing the tension doesn't remove or release the emotion it just sucks it back into where it came from. So like squeezing a wet sponge, the emotion comes out with some energy 'flavour/colour' (the type of emotion) then if you relax, the sponge is released and all the water goes back into the sponge (even the surrounding area isn't wet, it all goes back in), unless you let it linger on for some time or have some physical emotional outburst. Of course the earlier you stop squeezing the sponge and release it the less water needs to go back into the sponge, the less strained your muscles and so the process is much easier. But after you become more and more relaxed finally the delay of your muscles to squeeze the sponge increases. You have more time to relax and stop squeezing before any water comes out. Further later your muscles don't even tense at all. You can see something very disturbing but not be affected at all. Yes i believe you become indifferent. INDIFFERENT: lack of interest or concern. If you get a feeling you lose your balance and infact it's an effort to have a feeling or thought. It's work! I believe spiritualality is about relaxing and being taken by the divine or the tao. Not fighting against it with your tensions thus creating emotions. If you relax all the energy can join together in the perfect white light, love, or peace as it is put in the pdf you posted. If you have tension some light frequencies are blocked and an emotion is experienced. So its not a total lack of interest that you dont' care about anything, but you have no desire to change anything. Your not emotionally attached to the things and you don't get the emotional pain. Why would you? everything is perfect how it is! There is no better or worse, good or bad it's just all one and the same, the one and ultimate.

 

We DO however need emotions to keep our physical bodies healthy and have a good physical life. I need to get angry (anger is the most useful one i find) or at least act so, so that people listen to me or they try to take advantage of me. I do need to have some tension when i get hungry so my body can stay healthy. I do need to act sad or people think me uncaring. To be honest when i've been practicing so frequently that i get to this stage i even have some tiny feeling that i should be feeling guilty for acting and pretending these things, though i dont' actually 'feel' the guilt. It's like i feel surprised i feel nothing. It really is unbelievable sometimes.

 

I mean you could see emotions and see emotional pain in others i'm sure, but you wouldn't experience it unless you wanted to, by tensing up and fighting the tao's love.

 

The Dalai Lama is a spiritual leader. If he acted indifferently people wouldn't follow him. He's also a king too. His monachy had their own country and his and other lama royal familys have ruled large areas of land for 1000s of years. I don't think his people would follow him if they thought he was indifferent. They wanted to be a part of china a long time ago for protection because his millitary wasn't so strong.

 

To be honest, reading my own post i feel you have read too much into it and have none of your own ideas. Maybe you can print it out and give it to your teacher. I'd be interested in what he has to say because i don't have a teacher, except my chinese taiji teacher and he only speaks chinese and through the translator we end up just talking around in circles for hours and i can't get some clear answers out of him. If you know the chinese way it's always circle circle circle

 

Going to Tai shan the taoist mountain tomorrow morning n won't be back till sunday but i'll look for your post when i come back.

[markern]

I haven`t got time right now to write much but will give you a better reply later.

 

Actually Shinzen Young has an article about becoming emotionless right after enlightenment and how this eventually passes. Very simplisticly he sort of says that once your ego is killed your no self needs time to learn how to respond and feel in the world. After some time it does. So maybe what you experienced was something similar. I don`t remember which article that was but this one is also relevant to this discussion as it is about expressing emotion:

 

 

http://www.shinzen.org/shinsub3/artExpressEmo.pdf

[Athanor]

My suggestion: learn taiji (tai chi) and practice it a lot. First just a little, then a few minutes more every day. Find a master to learn from. Do this for daily routine, it's fun. You can do chigong too, but I prefer taiji because it has more movements and it puts all your parts in motion for a longer time; it enhances energy, but it also gently moves muscles and joints directly. Good taiji masters use qigong exercises as a work off, you'll probably learn such too.

It's definitely good to gain contact with someone who is actually teaching such. Don't rely on students' opinion, ask the master.

 

And for urgent change: I'd suggest you to try craniosacral therapy, but only after you read about it (search google), and only if you think it can help you. Don't do it just because some guy on the forum told you... This therapy is very gentle, and (according to articles) it cures mental, physical and psychical illnesses too; it works like an ignition to your immune system and the body's self-healing mechanism. I'm going to try it too.

[freeform]

It can take a really long time to heal the body and not have any pain. Maybe years of work. Also, as you heal you become more sensitive, so maybe pain never fully goes away.

 

It can also happen in an instant. Please don't limit yourselves or others with preconceptions.

 

Some great suggestions otherwise. Liver stagnation sounds about right... I've found there is a close relationship between liver and lymph flow - massaging neurolymphatic points you'll find ones that are very sore - pay more attention to these points and keep massaging daily for about a week. Drink plenty of water. Take a break for a week (doing mild exercises) then begin again for another week. This clears stagnation powerfully (sometimes making symptoms flare up before they recede completely).

[Aetherous]

No one's healing is limited by what I say, and I will always share my experience without holding back.

[gendao]

This is what I was thinking. They have poked, prodded, and x-rayed me without any explanation. Any advice on how to find a good energetic healer?

Word-of-mouth is usually best. Always check the general user feedback, as if you were shopping for a product.

 

In your locale, Chunyi Lin (and his disciple, Jim Nance) are supposed to be pretty decent. Although Chunyi may have been much more powerful before draining himself with a family & doing many healings & seminars..

 

Ya Mu lives out in Missouri, but may have students or know of good healers in MN.

 

Down in Chicago, Gary J. Clyman does "emotional liposuction" "jing-based" healing. By most accounts, he can be a rather pompous smacktalker...but nonetheless does possess some amount of true gong. One of his teachers, Waysun Liao, is well-acclaimed and teaches in Oak Park there (but I don't know if he does healings).

 

Dan Ferrera in Michigan is supposedly "crackling" with a strong qi field.

 

But I'm sure if you surf & ask around though, there are also many closer, less-publicized healers who can also help out a lot. Try a few out and see what works.

 

Although self-practice is best in the long run, I do think healers are really good for n00bs - because you have no idea what you are doing and may not be that energy-sensitive yet. So, experienced healers can help get you over the hump or learning curve...after which eventually you can DIY.

 

 

 

 

I also agree that while it's good to allow for the possibility of instant healings, establishing a strong foundation of health by clearing & opening all your channels is generally a long, arduous process that takes years. So, EXPECTING instant gratification could backfire if it reduces your work ethic. Which you will typically need a LOT of in this long game. Neidan is a marathon for the tortoise, not the hare (IMO). It relies a lot upon patience, discipline, endurance & perseverance. I'd love to be wrong here, but most anyone who has actually achieved much in this has also put a hella lotta hours in.

There is something called the small orbit or the small wheel. Its the pathway from your pelvic region, up the back of the du channel, and into the solar plexus region. After letting it mingle with the energies of your organs, you recollect the new qi back in the lower dantien. I suggest running this small orbit first for a LONG time before sending the qi up to the head. Its like building a skyscraper with a solid foundation. If you spend more time keeping the orbit moving through the bottom half of the body, your are less likely to "burnout", because you have a solid foundation to grow upon.

 

Too many people try to send the qi up too soon. Traditionally, you are supposed to spend near 9 months of dedicated practice to only moving the small wheel before heading up to higher places in the microcosmic orbit. Gives the body time to refresh, detox and clear stagnation in the emotional organs before you solidify your spirit in the head.

That way you make sure you clear your emotional/karmic patterns before you enter the heavenly levels.