I Ching translations

[Pietro]

I have the Wilhelm, the Alfred Huang and the Eranos translation. I also have the Wu Jing Nuan (mostly because Trip gave it to me as a gift, but I do consult it too).

 

What other important translations am I missing?

 

I still have somewhere Cleary's "Taoist I Ching" but was unimpressed and it's still lying in a box in my father's house. Similarly I was unimpressed (but more for gut reasons, can't really point out what) by Ni translation.

 

What other important translations am I missing?

 

Pietro

[mindspring]

I think you've listed most of the translations available today, except maybe James Legge. There is another translation by Stephen Karcher but I am not familiar with it.

 

Personally I like the Wilhelm translation. I got it because one of my favourite authors, Adeline Yen-Mah, recommends the Wilhelm translation when she discusses the I-Ching in her book Watching the Tree. My grasp of the Chinese language is average, but I've found Wilhelm to be quite close to the original text.

[Mal]

Not sure if you have these links, lots of various "stuff"

 

Change, change, change

http://deoxy.org/iching

I Ching on the net

Transformations

Virtual Yarrow Sticks

 

Huang and Eranos are the books I use most frequently.

[~jK~]

I have the Wilhelm, the Alfred Huang and the Eranos translation. I also have the Wu Jing Nuan (mostly because Trip gave it to me as a gift, but I do consult it too).

 

What other important translations am I missing?

 

I still have somewhere Cleary's "Taoist I Ching" but was unimpressed and it's still lying in a box in my father's house. Similarly I was unimpressed (but more for gut reasons, can't really point out what) by Ni translation.

 

What other important translations am I missing?

 

Pietro

 

The Buddhist I-Ching {16 th century China} by Chih-hsu Ou-i ISBN 0-87773-408-9

as Translated by Thomas Cleary PhD is turning out to be Cleary's best work to date. With this 1987 translation he finaly begins to earn his PhD-from-Harvard-in-East-Asian-Languages-and-Civilization credentials. The book gives Buddhism from it's four main applications: The individuals {1}interaction and {2}progress within their {3}Social and {4}Meditation spheres as well as the changes

 

As with most Chinese texts - this book contains the most important information in the first two chapters which total 30 pages as compared to either 4 or 2 pages for the next 62 chapters -{I-Ching's have 64 chapters}- In the first chapter the book gives a rare to find guide whereas a person can gauge themselves as to where they are at in meditation and how far is left to go.-Truly exceptional.

 

=====================

 

A SHORT HISTORY OF CHINESE PHILOSOPHY

 

By Fung Yu-Lan

 

Princeton Press

 

A systematic account of Chinese thought from its origins to the present day.

 

--

 

This book has been the standard reference for anyone studying Chinese history or philosophy since it was written in 1948.

 

***

 

Books structured on the I Ching principles of investigating and describing a subject by using eight opposites.

 

 

The Taoist I Ching

 

Written by Liu I-Ming in 1796 AD

 

Translated by Thomas Cleary PhD (Harvard)

 

Shambhala Press ISBN 0-394-74387-3

 

 

The Tao of Organization

 

The I Ching for Group Dynamics

 

Written By Cheng Yi in the Eleventh Century AD

 

-Confucianism-

 

Translated by Thomas Cleary PhD (Harvard)

 

Shambhala Press ISBN 1-57062-086-5

[Taomeow]

I have the Wilhelm, the Alfred Huang and the Eranos translation. I also have the Wu Jing Nuan (mostly because Trip gave it to me as a gift, but I do consult it too).

 

What other important translations am I missing?

 

I still have somewhere Cleary's "Taoist I Ching" but was unimpressed and it's still lying in a box in my father's house. Similarly I was unimpressed (but more for gut reasons, can't really point out what) by Ni translation.

 

What other important translations am I missing?

 

Pietro

Aleister Crowley's.

[mYTHmAKER]

I have the Wilhelm, the Alfred Huang and the Eranos translation. I also have the Wu Jing Nuan (mostly because Trip gave it to me as a gift, but I do consult it too).

 

What other important translations am I missing?

 

I still have somewhere Cleary's "Taoist I Ching" but was unimpressed and it's still lying in a box in my father's house. Similarly I was unimpressed (but more for gut reasons, can't really point out what) by Ni translation.

 

What other important translations am I missing?

 

Pietro

 

Check out A Guide To The I Ching - Carol K Anthony

 

also

the Philosophy of the I Ching same author

[buscon]

Aleister Crowley's.

 

I think that Aleister Crowley translated just the Tao Te Ching, even if he could not really speak good chinese, here:

http://deoxy.org/taowley.htm

 

but he used for sure the I Ching

[Taomeow]

I think that Aleister Crowley translated just the Tao Te Ching, even if he could not really speak good chinese, here:

http://deoxy.org/taowley.htm

 

but he used for sure the I Ching

 

Um... Aleister Crowley translated the I Ching under the name "Master Therion" and I use it without confusing it with TTC.

[buscon]

Um... Aleister Crowley translated the I Ching under the name "Master Therion" and I use it without confusing it with TTC.

 

you're right, sorry for the mistake: thank you for the info, I'll look into it

[EagleShen]

The best thing about Ni's book is actually his explanation of the I Ching at the start, it's really quite thorough. With his translations, i always get the feeling he is trying to say too much, not enough use of 'poetry'.

 

I've only a small experience with Cleary's Taoist translation, but have had some very profound readings with it, more so than with Wilhelm which was great as an introduction, but it never felt to me like it 'had' the deeper more subtle aspects - but that could have reflected my more limited understanding at the time.

 

I really crave a translation that goes back to first principles, by this i mean clearly explaining the meaning of the lines, of the trigrams, etc rather than just interpreting the whole hexagram. Any suggestions?

[Taomeow]

I really crave a translation that goes back to first principles, by this i mean clearly explaining the meaning of the lines, of the trigrams, etc rather than just interpreting the whole hexagram. Any suggestions?

 

Yup -- the Eranos I Ching (Shantena/Sabbadini). Once I started using it, there's no going back to Wilhelm et al. However, it's been my experience that you need experience to use it. I went through all the versions Pietro has mentioned and more (a rather unique Russian one, e.g., by Schutsky), and kept progressively "growing out of them" to the point where the translator's ideas as to what is being communicated were becoming more and more just a source of distraction and/or irritation.

 

The Eranos version is better than what a native speaker would read in the original, because it lists all meanings of every word, including historic ones no longer in circulation but meaningful at the time the book was written. Some of these meanings are explicitly and refreshingly taoist or even proto-taoist, and can only be understood in conjunction with wider taoist studies and practices. The attempts to tie judgements into actual sentences are mere suggestions (prepositions and conjunctions between words given in a different font, indicating they are absent from the original), and even these I'm finding superfluous. In the preface it is suggested to interpret what you get the way you would interpret a dream -- YOUR dream I might add, which makes sense to you and not necessarily anyone else. With every other version, you wind up with someone else's dreams and their interpretations. Nice to know what the combined mind of Wilhelm/Baynes or the combined mind of Liu I-Ming/ Thomas Cleary can dream up, but most of the time it has nothing whatsoever to do with what the great book is telling ME.

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

I Ching Oracle of the Cosmic Way by Carol K. Anthony and Hanna Moog

 

 

An excellent secondary I Ching to accompany the Wilhelm/Baynes.

 

 

 

 

 

Yessiree.

[Birch]

Great post!

 

So perhaps this may "explain" the vibe I get from my version - a rather curt and traditional old guy. I guess he reminds me of my grandfather in some ways;-) He's been nicer to me recently than he has in a while. He disproved of KAP immensely but is sort of coming around, he despises self-indulgence of any type, is a stickler for "character" and will be parsimonious with "good news" more often than not. Besides, he will always remind me it'll never last. But he sort of has my best interests at heart, I guess

[Guest paul walter]

Yup -- the Eranos I Ching (Shantena/Sabbadini). Once I started using it, there's no going back to Wilhelm et al.

 

 

This is the one I use- profound stuff. It's like a 4-D (sometimes 5-D!) version of what most know as the I-Ching. You forgot to mention it's hardcore --I got given mine from someone who has a life-long interest in the I-Ching but couldn't handle the 'complexity' of this one. Their loss. Paul

[Apech]

Yup -- the Eranos I Ching (Shantena/Sabbadini). Once I started using it, there's no going back to Wilhelm et al. However, it's been my experience that you need experience to use it. I went through all the versions Pietro has mentioned and more (a rather unique Russian one, e.g., by Schutsky), and kept progressively "growing out of them" to the point where the translator's ideas as to what is being communicated were becoming more and more just a source of distraction and/or irritation.

 

The Eranos version is better than what a native speaker would read in the original, because it lists all meanings of every word, including historic ones no longer in circulation but meaningful at the time the book was written. Some of these meanings are explicitly and refreshingly taoist or even proto-taoist, and can only be understood in conjunction with wider taoist studies and practices. The attempts to tie judgements into actual sentences are mere suggestions (prepositions and conjunctions between words given in a different font, indicating they are absent from the original), and even these I'm finding superfluous. In the preface it is suggested to interpret what you get the way you would interpret a dream -- YOUR dream I might add, which makes sense to you and not necessarily anyone else. With every other version, you wind up with someone else's dreams and their interpretations. Nice to know what the combined mind of Wilhelm/Baynes or the combined mind of Liu I-Ming/ Thomas Cleary can dream up, but most of the time it has nothing whatsoever to do with what the great book is telling ME.

 

Hi,

 

Is this the one you mean?

 

I ching

 

I still use Wilhelm ... but will buy this if you think its better.

 

Cheers.

 

A.

[Uncle Screwtape]

Stephen Karcher's Total I Ching is beautifully poetic and allows further insights into the historical context of the texts. A very good addition to anyone's collection.

 

The Ernaos is sumptuous. Meaning applicable to you in the moment seems to float up out of the text. It is hard work and I still need my Wilhelm open beside me for the while, but it is the daddy of them all in my opinion. And beautifully presented too.

 

Now I come to think of it, Karcher's has fields of meaning too.

 

Richard

Edited February 24, 2010 by Uncle Screwtape

[Mal]

Hi,

 

Is this the one you mean?

 

I ching

 

 

That's it the big red tomb It's a shame the hardcover seems unavailable. I may end up getting mine bound.

 

If I only brought one (hahaha) that would be it, but I do love it in conjunction with Hung as that way I have one persons interpretation and the "raw data" (pluse various copies on line) The Wayfarer Sonnets are also good for inspiration (was thinking of it as I keep all 3 together and it's actually in the banner as I write this, Synchronicity )

[~jK~]

The Buddhist I-Ching {16 th century China} by Chih-hsu Ou-i ISBN 0-87773-408-9

=====================

 

A SHORT HISTORY OF CHINESE PHILOSOPHY

By Fung Yu-Lan

Princeton Press

A systematic account of Chinese thought from its origins to the present day.

--

This book has been the standard reference for anyone studying Chinese history or philosophy since it was written in 1948.

 

***

 

Books structured on the I Ching principles of investigating and describing a subject by using eight opposites.

 

The Taoist I Ching

Written by Liu I-Ming in 1796 AD

Translated by Thomas Cleary PhD (Harvard)

Shambhala Press ISBN 0-394-74387-3

 

 

The Tao of Organization

The I Ching for Group Dynamics

Written By Cheng Yi in the Eleventh Century AD

-Confucianism-

Translated by Thomas Cleary PhD (Harvard)

Shambhala Press ISBN 1-57062-086-5

 

The truth being of the I Ching(s) is that they are not a book - but rather a style of writing. The style is to examine a subject from 8 different sides and then to subdivide it for further analysis.

 

Once you get past the interpreters - you can begin to understand them.

 

It seems that attaching your name to the I Ching is considered the way to try to make people think you are intelligent - although - by interpreting them with confusion - it proves the opposite.

 

The Chinese have a saying: "Complications are a way of telling lies".

(Albert Einstein wrote in childlike simple phrases)

 

One point I forgot to add is that the Chinese name for the I Ching symbol is BaGua - which means literaly "Language of 8"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ba_gua

Edited February 25, 2010 by ~jK~

[Guest allan]

One of the best reviews of Yijing books available on the Web:

 

http://www.biroco.com/yijing/reviews.htm

[soaring crane]

Hi,

 

these are the three that I consult:

 

Richard John Lynn, Wang Bi - Scholarly and thick - surprised it hasn't been mentioned here yet. It's a must-have, imo. Kind of a reference work to check other translations against.

 

The Complete Idiot's Guide, E. Moran barebones slick, goes straight to the heart of the matter, also has top notch historical info. The reviews at Amazon say a lot.

 

I Ching Workbook, RL Wing Insightful interpretations, somehow often spot-on.

 

The first two really complement each other well, really yin and yang, my first suggestions.

 

The third one is less "authoratative", more modern, but I enjoy it. Probably has to do with some synergy between me and the author...

 

I have Wilhelm in German, can't get very far with him, though.

 

The Cleary "Taoist" I Ching is also not up to snuff. I've had it forever, but it never works for me. There was a long article online about the flaws in that book, I can't find it now.

Edited February 25, 2010 by soaring crane

[~jK~]

The extreme of ignorance is to study a philosophy that is originated and developed 1/2 of the way around the world - for the majority of you - and expect it to be within your own levels of experience.

 

Dumb, Dumb, Dumb.

[Apech]

The extreme of ignorance is to study a philosophy that is originated and developed 1/2 of the way around the world - for the majority of you - and expect it to be within your own levels of experience.

 

Dumb, Dumb, Dumb.

 

Oh right, thanks, so does that mean I can only study English philosophy i.e football, beer and reality TV? and/or pragmatic empiricism (take your pick).

 

Cheers mate.

[Birch]

So I guess I'm as dumb as it gets.

 

Despite this, I still strive to undo my knowledge.

 

My cup is empty yet it overflows.

 

All that jazz.

 

What's so dumb about studying things you're interested in? Does it matter where they're from?

 

If it matters, we can at least ask the question. Where is this from? Doesn't it matter just as much "who" is doing the studying?

 

I am preferentially biased towards Apech because he nearly almost correctly guessed where I am (but not exactly ) And I take it for myself too. What's dumb about studying things from where I'm not?

[Mal]

Perhaps in a more PC way, there can be a lot of cultural norms and concepts that people native to that culture intrinsically understand that act as a barrier/handicap to those foreign to that culture. Once you are aware of that it is something you can learn to overcome.

 

Hence why many of us like the Eranos translation for giving as close as possible a one-to-one translation of Chinese to English. I like Huang in conjunction with that translation because his background is traditional Chinese taoist. Therefor his translation helps me to see the I Ching through that lens as my cultural background is different.

[Birch]

Mal, do you mean he manages the translation "just so" to the point where it would be like speaking with a native English speaker? If so then I'm all for.

 

I'm starting to find out there are certain languages I find easier than others. English is terrible I often wonder how it got "chosen" as an "international language".