I Ching translations

[Apech]

[Mal]

I beleive that, like many things, the I ching reflects what you bring to it.

 

So it's not what is written it's what that means to you.

[Pietro]

All of it. I guess my eyes refused to register what they were looking at.

 

I've an offer... Do you mind if I do a reading on your behalf? I have my own idea as to why she won't talk to you, but I prefer to get the confirmation/refutation of this idea directly from the source. Do you mind if I ask her? If you OK it, maybe the response I get will make sense to you. If it doesn't... no harm done.

 

 

Dear TaoMeow,

the first time I read this I thought you were going to ask a question from me, now as I reread it, I have the sensation you are more thinking about asking a question about me.

 

Absolutely, please feel free.

 

I'm talking real modern sciences, dude, not the lowest-common-denominator obsolete "everybody knows" kind --

to wit, what can be learned from this book by a Nobel prize winning scientist -- "Quantum Mechanics, Diffusion and Chaotic Fractals, " by Ilya Prigogine;

the mathematical theory of fuzzy logic -- as pioneered by Lofti Zadeh;

genetics and computational chemistry -- as in "DNA and the I Ching" by Francis F. Yan, Ph.D., a Cornell U researcher;

to name a few. When I say "science" I mean "science." I know your Popperesque definition and I've always found it amusing, but definitive? -- nah.

 

If you are speaking science you should do it properly.

Cite me passages from peer reviewed papers. And I will humbly read them.

 

The fact is that being outstanding in a field does not make you superhuman, and many people reach top level in a field, just to start saying silly claims in others. This is why it is important to hear the top people what they have to say... in the field they became so good. FOr example Ilya Prigogine is a well known scientist who studied physics. But after that in Physics he is considered someone who is now doing philosophy.

 

That's why the peer review process is so important. Even those big person will (mostly) be blocked from speaking nonsense if they are going to be peer reviewed. (Or else the editor is in trouble).

 

Also another reason why giving the reference is important. Some days ago drewhempel told us that

 

Ionization works through the FEMALE climax -- the vagus nerve -- while male sex (ejaculation) increases STRESS -- the sympathetic nervous system. This is detailed by Professor Robert Sapolsky's books -- MonkeyLuv and Trouble with Testosterone.

 

http://endo.endojour...endo;143/7/2534

source.

 

But then when I read the paper I could not find what Drew was claiming:

Thanks Drew, I have read the paper.

I got a few things from it. But the main is that female, in some parts of their cycle are better equipped to deal with stress. In tho other part of the cycle (post-estrous) they essentially react like male.

 

But this has nothing to do with climax. Those rats were not climaxing. Nor where they sexually stimulated. So I seem to miss how can you claim that:...

 

and again later:

Thanks Drew for the explanation.

I still don't see the relation with the previous paper.

Also I would love to see some studies done on this.

I don't doubt that you do get the success you do by sitting in meditation, I am just not convinced that your explanation is the correct one.

(all those are in the same thread).

I am not telling you this to recover some old threads or poke at Drew.

It is just that when you start to do the (boring) job of tracking down references, and read them, in the light of the claims that are being made thanks to them, often you find that the article did not at all claimed that. although this job is boring, I have to say in our spiritual context I find it really important.

If not of course you can always not ask for Science to cover and support your claims, and I will be absolutely ok with that.

With great respect, looking forward for your I Ching readings.

Pietro

[Taomeow]

TM,

 

I really appreciated what you said about learning how to ask a question. It took me a while to learn I had to learn how to ask, too. It was like fiddling with a combination lock and then suddenly it popped open. I prefer the yarrow method because of the time it takes and the opportunity the I Ching has to talk to me before a hexagram is revealed. She sometimes tells me that I am asking the wrong question; I'll even be told what question I should ask! Once I asked about what role a particular person plays in my life and I was told: 'That's not for you to know; but you know who you should ask about?' Then she told me.

 

So much of the divination takes place even before the final hexagram has been divined. It took me years to get to that stage. That's even before I get to the hexagrams themselves.

 

(For me, the Ta Chuan is more valuable a text than the TTC.)

 

Richard

 

PS Pietro, it was a divination TM did for me that brought me so close to the I Ching and I am thankful to this day. You'd do well to take her up on her generous offer.

 

Thanks, Richard!

 

Yeah, it's in the asking... and how and why it is in the asking can't be understood without actually asking, and there's many, many other human situations besides a divination that are exactly like that too -- asking directly is what we've been trained not to do in "all" or "most" of our interactions. Every four-year-old knows that already, and the longer we live, the less direct we get with each other and with reality itself. When I was four, I remember getting smacked for asking a neighbor, "are you so fat because you eat too much, or because you have a baby in your belly?" And at five, I got smacked again, when I asked a classmate, "is your mom in jail because she stole something or because she hurt somebody?" And then at six, for asking a teacher, "did you correct a correct spelling of mine because you don't know this word, or because you don't like me and didn't want to give me the highest grade?" Instances like these taught me (and everybody else) by about seven I think that a direct and open question is going to bring about trouble. A pattern of evasive maneuvers "around" the issue instead of open and honest curiosity (which gets punished or otherwise discouraged early on) solidifies in early childhood and then we forget that it wasn't always like that, that our thinking wasn't always evasive, that we were born with an inquisitive mind and faced the world in innocence, wanting to know "everything" about it.

 

Making a habit of the I Ching divinations can break this superimposed pattern of approaching reality on artificially enforced "indirect" terms and take one back to that innocence, that open face-to-face dialog with reality. That's pretty scary for someone shaped by the "evasive" pattern. And pretty painful for someone who might realize there's no human being in his or her world who can be approached like that, in full innocence and courage of uncensored "tell me what I want to know, not what you think I should be wanting to know or can be trusted to know or am allowed to know."

 

After years of using the I Ching for divination, I am still afraid to ask some questions... am embarrassed to ask other questions... am not smart enough to ask yet other questions... so the problem is not whether I trust and understand what she answers, I pretty much always do... the problem is how ready I am to ask and how honest I am -- and how much courage I have reclaimed to actually face the answers, after lifelong conditioning toward having none.

[Taomeow]

Dear TaoMeow,

the first time I read this I thought you were going to ask a question from me, now as I reread it, I have the sensation you are more thinking about asking a question about me.

 

Absolutely, please feel free.

 

 

 

If you are speaking science you should do it properly.

Cite me passages from peer reviewed papers. And I will humbly read them.

 

The fact is that being outstanding in a field does not make you superhuman, and many people reach top level in a field, just to start saying silly claims in others. This is why it is important to hear the top people what they have to say... in the field they became so good. FOr example Ilya Prigogine is a well known scientist who studied physics. But after that in Physics he is considered someone who is now doing philosophy.

 

That's why the peer review process is so important. Even those big person will (mostly) be blocked from speaking nonsense if they are going to be peer reviewed. (Or else the editor is in trouble).

 

Also another reason why giving the reference is important. Some days ago drewhempel told us that

 

source.

 

But then when I read the paper I could not find what Drew was claiming:

 

and again later:

(all those are in the same thread).

I am not telling you this to recover some old threads or poke at Drew.

It is just that when you start to do the (boring) job of tracking down references, and read them, in the light of the claims that are being made thanks to them, often you find that the article did not at all claimed that. although this job is boring, I have to say in our spiritual context I find it really important.

If not of course you can always not ask for Science to cover and support your claims, and I will be absolutely ok with that.

With great respect, looking forward for your I Ching readings.

Pietro

 

Thanks for letting me do this, Pietro -- I did the divination and will write up what I got soon (it's late...) As for references, that's a separate discussion, so -- divination soon, re references later.

[Pietro]

Thanks for letting me do this, Pietro -- I did the divination and will write up what I got soon (it's late...) As for references, that's a separate discussion, so -- divination soon, re references later.

 

 

Sure, no problem.

 

 

(I am still puzzled by your request;

 

we are One

[Pietro]

hm, post repeated, so now we are two.

Thanks for letting me do this, Pietro -- I did the divination and will write up what I got soon (it's late...) As for references, that's a separate discussion, so -- divination soon, re references later.

 

 

Sure, no problem.

 

 

(I am still puzzled by your request;

 

we are One

Edited March 12, 2010 by Pietro

[mYTHmAKER]

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Edited April 13, 2010 by mYTHmAKER