India's Top Guru is Fake Perv

[gendao]

No offense to the victims, but some dude tries oiling up my junk...and I'm peacing out. Well, first off I would have already been highly skeptical of his sleight-of-hand stage tricks to begin with. Show me some actual healings of real people, and then I might be more impressed.

 

Some of these New Age nut flakes just need to use some common sense. And also quit seeking "instant gratif-enlightenment" from gurus who will do all the "work" for them. It's often lazy seekers who don't want to walk their own long, arduous path themselves who are going to be far more prone to falling for these "get enlightened quick" cons.

Edited February 27, 2010 by vortex

[Stigweard]

Everything you fight for strengthens you, everything you fight against weakens you.

 

[MBZ]

It is interesting. it might not be old news to some. It could be useful to some.

 

Drew deserves more respect than your answer gave. As does anyone, in fact.

Indeed!

 

BLESSINGS!!!

[Enishi]

It's mostly anectodal, but I have heard of Sai Baba giving VERY powerful energy transmissions.

 

Having good energy skills and a degree of enlightenment does not make you immune to human weakness. It might not only be Sai Baba though, but rather, the environment around him. When you have thousands or even millions of fawning devotees who see you as infallible, perhaps you then start believing it yourself and rationalize your sexual perversions or other flaws. Arguably, an ordinary person who had that much unrealistic blind faith directed towards them would handle it even worse...

Edited February 27, 2010 by Enishi

[That Guy]

It's mostly anectodal, but I have heard of Sai Baba giving VERY powerful energy transmissions.

 

Having good energy skills and a degree of enlightenment does not make you immune to human weakness. It might not only be Sai Baba though, but rather, the environment around him. When you have thousands or even millions of fawning devotees who see you as infallible, perhaps you then start believing it yourself and rationalize your sexual perversions or other flaws. Arguably, an ordinary person who had that much unrealistic blind faith directed towards them would handle it even worse...

I am sorry, but you think an ordinary person in his position would you be getting young boys to suck them off?? Thats just ridiculous, if he was sleeping with women ok maybe, but giving young boys some "healing" would not arise from that kinda situation unless you're sick

 

I've heard his transmissions start off by him oiling up your balls....

 

I just can't believe you're in some way placing this man above "an ordinary person"

 

seriously! omg!

[Enishi]

I am sorry, but you think an ordinary person in his position would you be getting young boys to suck them off?? Thats just ridiculous, if he was sleeping with women ok maybe, but giving young boys some "healing" would not arise from that kinda situation unless you're sick

 

I've heard his transmissions start off by him oiling up your balls....

 

I just can't believe you're in some way placing this man above "an ordinary person"

 

seriously! omg!

 

I'm not desputing that he's crazy and immoral. It's not a matter of him being 'above' the average person in his current state, but how the average person would react if given the same level of devotion (in this context Sai Baba is 'not average' in that he might have more control over energy and better perception of the non-dual. those factors do not automatically make you balanced or moral). Think of warlords or dictators who have murdered millions.

 

The percentage of the population who have passing or chronic pedophile tendencies is around 4%. The average person is pretty neurotic in general in my experience, but due to having less freedom than someone like Sai Babam they tend to hide or repress it more (and not always on a conscious level)

 

The energy transmission/healing I heard of was in this article:

 

http://www.kheper.net/topics/gurus/Sai_Baba.htm

Edited February 27, 2010 by Enishi

[That Guy]

I'm not desputing that he's crazy and immoral. It's not a matter of him being 'above' the average person in his current state, but how the average person would react if given the same level of devotion. Think of warlords or dictators who have murdered millions.

 

The percentage of the population who have passing or chronic pedophile tendencies is around 4%. The average person is pretty neurotic in general in my experience, but do having less freedom than someone like Sai Babam they tend to hide or repress it more.

 

The energy transmission/healing I heard of was in this article:

 

http://www.kheper.net/topics/gurus/Sai_Baba.htm

BUt you still believe he has "good energy skills and a degree of enlightenment"?

Hes a con man, a fake, a fraud etc

If he had any level of enlightenment, if he was a good man, practised what he preaches he would have never done what he did. He would know and care about those boys enough to realise he would RUIN their life to a great degree, it will haunt them forever. he is an obvious monster for doing what he did and possibly continues to do

 

I will not read the article, because well i'm gonna just say its fake, at best the receiver got some placebo effect from the transmission. I can't say I know what a holy man is, but I m sure I can tell what is not.

 

And the good things he has done seem more like an investment for self preservation.

 

some real scientific testing could help a lot of people see him for what he really is, but oh well....

[Enishi]

I don't 'believe' that he definitely has energy skills or enlightenment, I'm saying it's 'possible'. And no, having a level of non-dual perception doesn't automatically make you a good person, especially if you're unrooted. There lots of old people who are very nice and kinder than gurus like Sai Baba, but arent enlightened. Having a measure of enlightenment can increase one's ethical behavior and disciple, and vice versa, but based on what I've seen the presence of one doesn't 'necessarily' include the other.

Edited February 28, 2010 by Enishi

[RyanO]

http://www.strippingthegurus.com/

 

Let's not limit this to Sai Baba, shall we? No one is safe!!!

[squib]

Hi, yes you may as well say this about anyone who claims paranormal skills, including many of the Taoist practitioners here, or associated with this forum. Which is fine if you apply this across the board. Perhaps it's true they are all frauds con-men or self deceivers. Years of attempts at scientific testing of yogi's for instance, never leads to anything conclusive, there is a youtube doc where a sadhu is locked up in a controlled environment and does not eat or drink or urinate ( for several weeks? I think) still they think he may be smuggling food in, or the control is not good enough, bottom line it's never conclusive to the scientific mind or attitude that is already "prejudicial"

 

 

 

BUt you still believe he has "good energy skills and a degree of enlightenment"?

Hes a con man, a fake, a fraud etc

If he had any level of enlightenment, if he was a good man, practised what he preaches he would have never done what he did. He would know and care about those boys enough to realise he would RUIN their life to a great degree, it will haunt them forever. he is an obvious monster for doing what he did and possibly continues to do

 

I will not read the article, because well i'm gonna just say its fake, at best the receiver got some placebo effect from the transmission. I can't say I know what a holy man is, but I m sure I can tell what is not.

 

And the good things he has done seem more like an investment for self preservation.

 

some real scientific testing could help a lot of people see him for what he really is, but oh well....

[de_paradise]

It is interesting. it might not be old news to some. It could be useful to some.

 

Drew deserves more respect than your answer gave. As does anyone, in fact.

 

Fake gurus or semi-fake gurus, or real but immoral gurus is extremely relevent for this board because we can actually critically review a person with some degree of insight about siddhis, etc., comparing to the spiritually uninitiated who tend to throw out the baby with the bathwater in the name of scepticism.

 

Lashing out at Drew only makes me wonder what your complexes are Songs, as it could be great learning experience for you too as it has revealed a weakness. Are you hurt that the title is associated with India and hurts Indians pride?

[Mal]

After consideration I'd decided he is a fake. I'm so ashamed. I'm going to burn all my boxes of this stuff

Yes that's a joke, obviously I have not considered anything. I really only know the name Sai Baba from the Nag Champa incense that I buy. Sorry to tangent but I LOVE Nag Champa and the Satya Sai Baba one is readily available.

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Fake gurus or semi-fake gurus, or real but immoral gurus is extremely relevent for this board because we can actually critically review a person with some degree of insight about siddhis, etc., comparing to the spiritually uninitiated who tend to throw out the baby with the bathwater in the name of scepticism.

 

Lashing out at Drew only makes me wonder what your complexes are Songs, as it could be great learning experience for you too as it has revealed a weakness. Are you hurt that the title is associated with India and hurts Indians pride?

 

You're reading too much into it. I guess I was over-reacting to the term 'perv' in the title... why slam India? The great beings that were once there like Nityananda, Ramana Maharshi and Neem Karoli Baba, to name a few are long gone. Muktanada fucked many of the young disciples (and no, I don't buy that he was practicing tantra with them, as there were many many accounts of his lechery with young women who had not a chance with this powerful shaktipat master), and now there is very little shakti pr power in the remaining dimmer gurus...

[Gerard]

95% of India's spiritual Gurus are fake with nothing much to offer. True spiritual traditions of India have long been extinct there, while others escaped and took refuge in places outside India like Tibet and other parts of Asia.

 

Tibet is under Chinese commercial control, so I doubt Tibetan Buddhists will have any freedom there. Gedhun Choekyi Nyima, a rebirth of Panchen lama, was abducted with his family by the Chinese in 1995 and no one has ever heard of him or his family. They vanished in thin air!

 

About India, they are still true spiritual seekers in India but unfortunately (or fortunately for some) THEY DON'T GO PUBLIC. You might come across them in a Kumbh Mela or by other means if that's your yuan fen; pure and simple "law of attraction."

Edited February 28, 2010 by durkhrod chogori

[Aetherous]

Sorry to tangent but I LOVE Nag Champa

 

Me too.

 

Regarding Sai Baba...

 

 

Worshiping human beings is not good for anyone.

[enouch]

Well, well, where to start? That video was pretty nasty and disturbing. However, just to be fair to Sai and his followers, he has reportedly performed feats Chunny Lnn, Wang Liping,John Chang and others can only dream about. It should also be noted Jesus was slandered in the talmud under veiled references. So I'm always reluctant to immediately judge without evidence. Swami Rama was also called a charlatan and like Jesus he refused to speak out against his accusers.Leaving him open to a vicious lawsuit and extreme finacial penalties.

 

One of our own members visited Baba and claims his powers are real[sky or starjumper]yet he derives them from evil spirits. Barbara Brenan [i think] visited him and said ''It appeared as though all tthe energy centers in the universe were centered around him'' Her own healing powers increased after that encounter,so who can say?

 

It should also be mentioned in the book of Enoch it reads''The serpent landed in India'' Anyway,here is a book detailing some f his amazing feats:http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Miracles-Investigative-Phenomena-Associated/dp/0803893841 His charity work-building schools and hospitals should also be marked. Unlike eastern spritual leaders L Ron Hubbard fought back against his accusers [infiltrating goverment instiutions,ecetera] and is criticized for doing so. It is similar to the problem of evil brought up on university campuses: If God is good then why won't he stop evil? Yet in certain passages he is called a juding God and takes action against evil and that is used against him, it seems you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. It all comes down to how people feel about you.

Edited February 28, 2010 by enouch

[That Guy]

54:07

Interviewer: "Even if it was proven to you that Sai Baba was a pedophile and a serial sex abuser, you're saying it wouldn't change the fact that he is your guru."

 

Sai Baba disciple: "Absolutely not. Absolutely not. He could go out and murder someone tomorrow, as I said, it's not gonna change my evolution. It's not gonna change the good things that come out of my relationship down there." And then he admitted: "...absolutely, I believe there is truth to the rumors."

 

 

Yeah that part is pretty scary, it's things like this that can make spiritual followers seem a little crazy If people can simply look past these negative actions from their gurus and remain fully devoted to them, putting it politely, they're not thinking straight.

 

@ squib

 

Yes you are right, scientists never reach any conclusions after their tests, they're all "prejudicial", that's why science isn't moving forward at all. They just stay there in the same place.....and they'll remain there forever because they'll never reach any conclusions...

 

Science is not as subjective, tests are repeated several times, and across many different institutions even, before any conclusion is reached and published. It has to make sure the data is accurate and reliable, there are standards to be kept.

Yes there are corrupt science reports, yes there are prejudices in scientists, but those things aside, be it a sadhu or be it a scientist with a theory they both have to be tested several times and under supervision of other parties before they can be confirmed.

 

@ Enishi

 

Well this guy is "god on earth", an avatar for the big man himself.(according to devotees, and who would know him better than those devoted to him right? ) And hes a gay pedo

 

Well I'm not changing anyones mind, so I'll just leave this as my semi final word. My final word though is that if sai baba calls anyone you know or yourself for a private blessing you should probably proceed with caution, if you you really have to proceed at all....

[Gerard]

 

...One of our own members visited Baba and claims his powers are real[sky or starjumper]yet he derives them from evil spirits. Barbara Brenan [i think] visited him and said ''It appeared as though all tthe energy centers in the universe were centered around him'' Her own healing powers increased after that encounter,so who can say?

 

Hmmm. This is interesting. Two years ago I came across this Tai Chi guy and Fire Qigong teacher who told me he had a recurring dream about an Indian guru who was asking me to come to India and donate money to his cause. He didn't have a clue of who the man was until I mentioned to him the story I read about this suppossedly Indian saddhu with Afro hairstyle who was surrounded by controversy. Then he uttered (after right I mentioned the word "Afro"):

 

That's him! That's the guy I saw in my dreams!

 

Interesting.

[markern]

Well, well, where to start? That video was pretty nasty and disturbing. However, just to be fair to Sai and his followers, he has reportedly performed feats Chunny Lnn, Wang Liping,John Chang and others can only dream about. It should also be noted Jesus was slandered in the talmud under veiled references. So I'm always reluctant to immediately judge without evidence. Swami Rama was also called a charlatan and like Jesus he refused to speak out against his accusers.Leaving him open to a vicious lawsuit and extreme finacial penalties.

 

One of our own members visited Baba and claims his powers are real[sky or starjumper]yet he derives them from evil spirits. Barbara Brenan [i think] visited him and said ''It appeared as though all tthe energy centers in the universe were centered around him'' Her own healing powers increased after that encounter,so who can say?

 

It should also be mentioned in the book of Enoch it reads''The serpent landed in India'' Anyway,here is a book detailing some f his amazing feats:http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Miracles-Investigative-Phenomena-Associated/dp/0803893841 His charity work-building schools and hospitals should also be marked. Unlike eastern spritual leaders L Ron Hubbard fought back against his accusers [infiltrating goverment instiutions,ecetera] and is criticized for doing so. It is similar to the problem of evil brought up on university campuses: If God is good then why won't he stop evil? Yet in certain passages he is called a juding God and takes action against evil and that is used against him, it seems you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. It all comes down to how people feel about you.

 

Well, I have only seen the Danish documentary but in it there is crystal clear video footage proving that his manifestation abilities are tricks. Unless there is a black hole in his sleave that he pulls stuff out of I am not impressed. A bunch of magicians and mentalists that will readily admit to having no supernatural abilities would be able to do anything that Sai Baba does. Derren Brown most certainly could. What Derren Brown demonstrated on a martial artist beats any Fa Jin stuff I have ever seen. In rality he used hypnosis and suggestion.

 

Swami Rama fucked his female students. That is abuse! The testimony is plenty.

 

The evidence in the Danish documentary alone is enough to convict him of pedophilia several times over. Defending the guy is, in light of the evidence, just sick and twisted. I would cut his balls and penis of.

[That Guy]

Well, I have only seen the Danish documentary but in it there is crystal clear video footage proving that his manifestation abilities are tricks. Unless there is a black hole in his sleave that he pulls stuff out of I am not impressed. A bunch of magicians and mentalists that will readily admit to having no supernatural abilities would be able to do anything that Sai Baba does. Derren Brown most certainly could. What Derren Brown demonstrated on a martial artist beats any Fa Jin stuff I have ever seen. In rality he used hypnosis and suggestion.

 

Derren Brown is a disinformation agent sent by the powers that be to trick us! He is really a high level practitioner of Magick out on the world stage to discredit the existence of the paranormal!

really, some of the stuff he does is just too good At least thats how it looks on TV anyway

Thorough scientific testing can help us distinguish the real from the false, if you're the real deal why not get yourself a "100% True" certificate? If not for yourself, then for the sake of those who are being fooled by frauds. (which can lead to really bad consequences.)

 

Mind Punch Video:

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/67471/derren_brown_kung_fu_mind_punch/

Funny Mind control:

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1110383/derren_brown_uses_mind_control_to_take_money_learn_how_to_nlp_h/

[minkus]

One of our own members visited Baba and claims his powers are real[sky or starjumper]yet he derives them from evil spirits.

 

I dont wonna intertwine in the discussion. I dont have any knowledge of Sai Baba.

 

Yust wanted to mention Starjumper7 and he's many alt-accounts here are not a reference to anything. He is known here to try to stir things up and try to make other practices look bad by making sometimes absurd claims ..

 

I highly doubt Starjumper7 ever visited Sai baba. The guy is highly dellusional and i would be carefull to believe about anything he says.

 

Cheers

[enouch]

L. Ron Hubbard is the object of a Tool song.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here's an interesting journey of one man with an enquiring mind. Also the study tech in scientology is quite nice.

Edited March 3, 2010 by enouch

[Mark Foote]

Sorry, I disagree. The title to the thread "India's Top Guru is a Fake Perv" does not invite particularly serious discussion. And I have strongly defended drew previously when the mods wanted to ban him, so I respect him. I am not a Sai Baba devotee, although I saw him once in India, but if I were, I would be offended by the title of this thread.

 

I'd have to say that it was news to me, that Sai Baba abuses his young male followers. Guess I just missed out on that one; I watched the whole video last night, thanks, Drew.

 

I think the moral of the story, if in need my friend, is a man of amazing presence does not know what to do with his own sexual nature. I personally don't believe Jesus performed any miracles, but then, I'm a fan of the Gospel of Thomas (and of Mary), not particularly of John. I think Gautama the Buddha knew the most amazing things about suffering and human well-being, and I'm not sure he understood correctly what goes on with spiritual insight and human sexuality. He certainly had some strong and unfavorable views of the role of women in a male spiritual seeker's life.

 

At least Gautama stated publicly that the ability to communicate the teaching was the greatest miracle, and correctly identified the performance of miracles and fortune telling as sideshows (my opinion, the "correctly" part, I admit).

 

Wasn't it amazing that in the video, the Hard Rock Cafe founder who is a disciple of Sai Baba said he believed the alegations against Sai Baba (vis-a-vis pedophile activity), but it didn't change the feelings and respect he had for Sai Baba.

[Owledge]

About L. Ron Hubbard: He himself said (as far as I know even wrote) once that you can't make much money with writing SF novels, but if you want to become rich, found a religion! And there are enough people who are ignorant to these things.

 

Derren Brown is a disinformation agent sent by the powers that be to trick us! He is really a high level practitioner of Magick out on the world stage to discredit the existence of the paranormal!

really, some of the stuff he does is just too good At least thats how it looks on TV anyway

 

The "disinformation agent"-claim is kind of a classic. I examined some cases and it seems too much following a rigid pattern. It is often used by people who wouldn't evn consider the possibility that it is no aimed disinformation, but comes out of sincere personal conviction. It might be caused when people learn what SOMETIMES happens (performed by secret agencies) and then build up fear out of this knowledge. Well... of course you could also sum it up in the single word "paranoia".

By the way... An open mind also has to consider it the other way round: Just because someone is obviously paranoid doesn't mean he's not right sometimes.

[三江源]

Just because someone is obviously paranoid doesn't mean he's not right sometimes.

 

The thing about the paranoid mentality is that it is very perceptive, and there is usually a grain of truth at the root of the paranoid ideas, but that grain in misconstrued/distorted/overblown.

 

So it works on two levels : (i) the perception, and then (ii) what the mind does with it.