GARY CLYMAN DEMONSTRATES EMPTY FORCE!

[enouch]

Athough by accident...yet still impressive! At the end of part three he projects through a wall. I think Paul Dong would be happy yet Gary's ability comes from another system and he doesn't have control. Some taobums swear by his stuff others criticize it.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvsZuTEmEbg&feature=related

 

 

Edited February 28, 2010 by enouch

[enouch]

[Mattimo]

Total load of shit. This guy is faker than fake.

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

No, he's for real. He's a very hard-charging and overbearing though. And his name is spelled 'Clyman', not 'Cyman'.

Edited February 28, 2010 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[Mattimo]

You think so? The thing that gets me is the apparent pain that the black fellow appears to me in when Clyman is demonstrating his technique(s). Seems a little contrived to me. What system is his alleged skill attributed to?

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

You think so? The thing that gets me is the apparent pain that the black fellow appears to me in when Clyman is demonstrating his technique(s). Seems a little contrived to me. What system is his alleged skill attributed to?

 

Tai Chi. The guy used to sell a dvd course for chi development for $600 dollars about 12 years back. I think others here have had experience with him. He has some good wushu skills/development, but is a total loudmouth type, likes to brag about kicking so and so other martial artst/teacher's ass. Do a search here, there's a lot of info. Some useful stuff on energy development. Blasto has worked with him, I think.

Edited February 28, 2010 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[h.uriahr]

Master Gary Clyman has been nothing but kind and very helpful to me in every conversation I've ever had with him. He's really ramped up energetically but I think I would say that's he's just extremely passionate about his system, like on fire passionate. I would never ever describe him as being an asshole.

 

Before saying anyone is fake you should either meet them in person first or at the very least try the system with diligence and determination. Fake is another word I would never use to describe him.

[NeiChuan]

Yeah he diden't seem to be trying either.. As of now though hes full of energy. (So I hear).

[Aetherous]

Some of the video is obviously fake...but some is legit. Of course, the student is really exaggerating it or perhaps falling for it.

[MBZ]

I spoke with him once over the phone and he was very loud and bragged a lot. Because he knew I was training with the Gracies he went on and on about how he wanted to test his stuff against Rickson Gracie.

[Mattimo]

Before saying anyone is fake you should either meet them in person first or at the very least try the system with diligence and determination. Fake is another word I would never use to describe him.

 

Fair enough. What I would say though, is that normally there is a certain quality in legitimate demonstrations, which I couldn't perceive in the videos above. At the very least, the black fellow is definitely exaggerating. Nonetheless, it's good to know that there might be some skill here. Will look into it some more.

 

Thanks,

 

Matt

[That Guy]

I spoke with him once over the phone and he was very loud and bragged a lot. Because he knew I was training with the Gracies he went on and on about how he wanted to test his stuff against Rickson Gracie.

if it happens, please tape it

[MBZ]

if it happens, please tape it

I no longer train with them but I doubt he would have done it let alone let me record it. My personal belief is Rickson would have wiped up the mat with him. He may have some skill in something but like many people, even here on TTB, it amazes me that their egos are still so big after claiming to be so advanced spiritually.

 

BLESSINGS!!!

[gendao]

You think so? The thing that gets me is the apparent pain that the black fellow appears to me in when Clyman is demonstrating his technique(s). Seems a little contrived to me. What system is his alleged skill attributed to?

That appears to be a healing, not martial, technique though. So, he very well may be feeling pain as blockages are being released. Pain in qigong healing is usually proportional to the severity of the blockage & amount of qi being used. You can also see similarly painful reactions in his "emotional liposuction" vids (although those do involve physical contact).

 

As far as applying "empty force" in combat - Master Cheuk Fung probably explains it best here:

Student: What about push hands and bouncing exercises where no contact is used?

Master Fung: You're talking about field strength exercises. You know field as in 'magnetic field'. Field strength exercises are used for the same purpose as other push hands and bouncing exercises....to help us appreciate and develop our strength.

 

Student: I don't understand....how can we be training strength when there is no physical contact?

Master Fung: Hunyuan strength is not just physical strength. Typically we study three aspects of Hunyuan strength, the actual physical strength, the flexibility of that strength and strength of the associated energy field. By physical strength we mean the actual capacity of the body to generate force. Flexibility refers to the capacity to deliver that physical strength at various angles and circumstances. Field strength refers to the concentration or quality of the practitioner's energy field. Field strength exercises help us directly develop and utilize this energy field to further refine Hunyuan strength.

 

Student: Where does the field come from?

Master Fung: The field or aura is simply the radiation that we give off as living beings. Just like an electric motor generates an electro-magnetic field, our bodies also generate an energy field that surrounds us or, more accurately, is simply part of us.

 

Student: Does practicing Yi Chuan affect this field?

Master Fung: Of course it does. The various exercises we use in Yi Chuan help to charge up the field, others teach us how to condense or compress it in coordination with the use of actual strength. The quality of the energy field and the ability to control it are achievements for Yi Chuan practitioners.

 

Student: How does energy field strength relate to actual physical strength?

Master Fung: In the same way the strength of an electric motor depends on the amount of current being sent. Like we talked about before the Yi controls the intensity of the energy current sent to the muscles. More current means more strength. Your energy field is directly affected by your Yi just as every other part of your being is.

 

Student: Does a strong energy field mean having strong physical force?

Master Fung: Not necessarily...it's very easy to break the link between the field strength and actual strength. Only when the field strength is used as a base for actual strength and not broken while being applied will Hunyuan strength result. Accomplishing this can be more difficult than it sounds because it requires awareness of the field and control over the frame.

 

Student: What do you mean by breaking the link?

Master Fung: By linking I mean unite. The basic formula requires 4 types of linkage; intent, energy, structure and strength united as one. When arranged in the proper proportions its like cyanide. Carbon and nitrogen are harmless independently but when they combine in the right proportion to make cyanide its a totally different story. So break one of the linkages and Hunyuan strength disappears. One of the most common problems to overcome is breaking the linkage between the energy field and the actual strength.

 

Student: Why is field strength commonly referred to as empty force?

Master Fung: Empty force is a direct translation of 'lin kong jin'. I'm not sure how the term originated....maybe its a reference to how using it feels? Anyway, I don't much care for the term empty force. It gives the idea that there is this separate energy that is being shot out at the opponent, which of course is not the case at all. Field strength does not exist independent of the other aspects of strength. Its not a technique or even a goal from a self defense point of view but more a by-product of proper training.

 

Student: Can field strength be used for self defense?

Master Fung: Yes, but not in the way you are thinking. Let me be very clear here, field strength is NOT useful for self defense independent of actual strength. In other words never think you're going to defend yourself by controlling opponents with field strength, that is just foolish. Just the same as it's foolish to think that the increased sensitivity and strength that come with developing the field have no use in self defense, because they do. With field awareness the ability to intercept the opponents strength greatly increases, more leverage can be applied and the strength has a deep penetrating quality.

 

Student: So field strength exercises are really just an extension of our other training, a further refinement of the basics?

Master Fung: Now your on the right track. Field strength exercises will help develop the proper timing for using Hunyuan strength against an opponent. The basic idea is to intercept the opponents intent so he ends up receiving not only your strength but a reflection of his strength as well.

 

Student: Is that why you get such strong reactions from your students when you bounce them?

Master Fung: Yes! That's what I've been trying to tell you. You in particular are always trying to figure out how to get me by using more strength. The reason you flip up and fly away so much is a result of your strength reflecting off my frame back to you. Most of the time I don't even have to use any strength of my own to bounce you...you supply all the strength that's needed.

 

Student: Are you saying that I've been beating myself up?

Master Fung: In a manner of speaking, yes. That is how the method is designed, to literally use your strength against you. Typically this idea is interpreted as moving out of the way at the last minute as attacker charges in, like a matador with a bull. That's not what I mean here. I mean your strength is literally a handle I can use to grab, hold and throw you out.

 

Student: Is that why people act differently when encountering Hunyuan strength, because it depends on how they are applying their own strength?

Master Fung: Absolutely. That's why you never use field strength without actual strength in a fighting situation....the reaction depends on the attacker! Some people don't feel anything at all. Some people get a little disoriented or woozy but never directly react to the field. Some people are so sensitive they fly away at glance. Even the same person will react differently depending on the strength behind his attack. No strength and there is nothing to reflect back at him. In my experience field strength reactions typically occur when two strong fields interact. A weak one and a strong one will seldom see a reaction. Its a lot like magnets...the fields repel each other when lined up in the proper way.

 

Student: How did field strength concepts degenerate into the empty force nonsense that is all over the place?

Master Fung: I don't know...there must have been some irresponsible teaching at some point. Somewhere along the line people learned the phenomenon without properly understanding the context. Without the context the phenomenon can be used to support misconceptions or even delusions of all kinds. Stay away from that, steer clear of that kind of thinking. Study the role of energy directly through your practice and come to your own conclusions and understanding of it. Use the knowledge of your predecessors to reach for a higher understanding yourself, not as stones to wall yourself in with. I've been studying energy most of my life and can assure you there is endless mystery there.

[voidisyinyang]

That appears to be a healing, not martial, technique though. So, he very well may be feeling pain as blockages are being released. Pain in qigong healing is usually proportional to the severity of the blockage & amount of qi being used. You can also see similarly painful reactions in his "emotional liposuction" vids (although those do involve physical contact).

 

As far as applying "empty force" in combat - Master Cheuk Fung probably explains it best here:

 

Yes that's an EXCELLENT fascinating description. I would say that the physical force is the electrochemical energy -- and if someone has their electromagnetic center in their lower chakra then you get that strong "opposite" magnetic charge which causes a strong reaction from the other person.

 

[三江源]

Yes, good point. SO many times people sneer and disbelieve when they see people being flung around and falling to the floor etc without being touched but actually it happens pretty easily when a wave of pure energy is directed at someone who is full of blockages, they fall over or spin backwards or just plain flip out.

[Guest sykkelpump]

Yes, good point. SO many times people sneer and disbelieve when they see people being flung around and falling to the floor etc without being touched but actually it happens pretty easily when a wave of pure energy is directed at someone who is full of blockages, they fall over or spin backwards or just plain flip out.

 

I would say the opposite.when your channels are open and you are very sensitive to energy.

[SFJane]

Yes, good point. SO many times people sneer and disbelieve when they see people being flung around and falling to the floor etc without being touched but actually it happens pretty easily when a wave of pure energy is directed at someone who is full of blockages, they fall over or spin backwards or just plain flip out.

 

Years ago when I first got into tai chi and was a newb at fa jin I was demonstrating tai chi style pushes on some aikidoka. I put my hands on one guy and barely pulsed him and he flew, like five plus feet, arms pinwheeling, hopping and finally near-falling.

 

Thing is, that wasn't me. I did not do that to him. At best he should have gently been displaced about three feet back like a small wave coming into shore moving someone who is hip deep in the surf.

 

Sure, it made my push look like power level 9000 but it was incredibly embarrassing. It was all in his head. If this had happened privately, I would have said something to him but it was in a dojo with other people present.

 

I had an interesting chat with Mr. Clyman once.

[enouch]

Years ago when I first got into tai chi and was a newb at fa jin I was demonstrating tai chi style pushes on some aikidoka. I put my hands on one guy and barely pulsed him and he flew, like five plus feet, arms pinwheeling, hopping and finally near-falling.

 

Thing is, that wasn't me. I did not do that to him. At best he should have gently been displaced about three feet back like a small wave coming into shore moving someone who is hip deep in the surf.

 

Sure, it made my push look like power level 9000 but it was incredibly embarrassing. It was all in his head. If this had happened privately, I would have said something to him but it was in a dojo with other people present.

 

I had an interesting chat with Mr. Clyman once.

 

 

 

So...don't be coy, what did he say? Or are you indirectly telling us what he said? Have you tried his system?

[SFJane]

So...don't be coy, what did he say? Or are you indirectly telling us what he said? Have you tried his system?

 

Alright, alright.

 

Let's see, it helps if you know the background. I was watching a Clyman vid and his moves looked pretty interesting. He was demoing wave energy nei kung or something. He was vibrating his arms and making growling sounds, like an engine revving up. As soon as I saw that video, I recognized his form as something Bruce Frantzis warns about in his Energy Gates book.

 

 

Out of technical curiosity, I tried to emulate and reverse engineer GC's moves just to see how it felt.

 

Then I decided to call GC up myself to find out where he got his stuff from. That's where the lulz begins.

The Good:

 

He was very polite to me and seemed quite forthcoming.

 

He learned some of his nei kung from Waysun Liao and it is the real deal in as much as, he does central channel work, dan tien work, spiraling work and breathing. He can also take quite a punch from most people. He seems very enthusiastic about chi/nei kung and obviously loves practicing and teaching it.

The Bad:

 

I appreciate confidence in one's own abilities but his arrogance and braggadocio is....repellent. It is possible that his ability has made him a little bit psychotic and definitely over confident.

 

The Ugly:

 

At some point in the conversation he started bad-mouthing Mr. Liao's school, skill and personality.

 

He asked me who I had trained with and I named dropped Bruce Frantzis and Peter Ralston.

 

He didn't know who Ralston was but he knew about BF and told me that 'just between me and him' he could lay the smack down on Bruce at any time.

 

!

 

At that point I wrapped up my end of the convo and thanked him for his time.

 

I think he does have some real skill when it comes to absorbing energy and iron shirt type stuff but frankly, his empty force stuff was quite a laugh. Faker than fake was one reply. All I can say to that is, his jedi powers would not work on me.

 

As an aside, I was watching his emotional liposuction vids and for a guy who is so into emotional energy he seemed utterly clueless to the body language cues coming from his female attendees. Personally, I think his wave power stuff is neat but I would never in a million years go to this guy for emotional problems nor recommend him to others for such.

[Spectrum]

Gary & Max for Bliss Suction

[h.uriahr]

It's amusing at how many times I've read posts that say " This guy couldnt do anything to me " or " He has no real power " etc etc etc.

 

I'd like to see a video of someone locking up with Gary. I know he'd let you film it. I dont want some run of the mill person either, I want someone like say SFJane to go out there and film it. Someone who has actually said " His jedi power wouldnt work on me " but who has some cultivation experience as well.

 

I guess I'm not understanding the talking smack aspect of things anymore. Dont talk it, do it.

[Aetherous]

His jedi powers really wouldn't work on someone who doesn't participate.

[h.uriahr]

His jedi powers really wouldn't work on someone who doesn't participate.

 

I may not have a good grasp on jing power so bare with me here. It's my understanding that jing projection works whether you resist or not.

[SFJane]

It's amusing at how many times I've read posts that say " This guy couldnt do anything to me " or " He has no real power " etc etc etc

 

His jedi powers really wouldn't work on someone who doesn't participate.

 

I may not have a good grasp on jing power so bare with me here. It's my understanding that jing projection works whether you resist or not.

 

Let's be clear about what we are talking about.

 

As I stated in my previous post. I am quite sure from what I've seen and heard that he has some skill. I specifically said, that his Iron Shirt and wave energy stuff looks legit and effective.

 

With that said.

 

When I said his jedi powers won't work on me what I meant was. His empty force stuff does not impress me. I doubt he could either help or harm me in any way. He could wave his hands at me at any distance and he would just look silly.

 

I personally, find his nei kung interesting. I was willing not only to try take time to analyze his routine but to practice it as best as I could for a bit despite Bruce's warnings. I am like the Borg when it comes to learning internal arts. I was quite sure that I would not hurt myself just by playing around with it a little.

 

However. Empty force demonstrations generally make me /facepalm. I am one of those skeptical party poopers whose aura somehow magically turns off other people's abilities whenever I ask for a real demonstration. Apparently my 'disbelief' chi is always stronger then their 'believe that they can' chi.

 

 

Dont talk it, do it.

 

I've felt my share of Jin when it comes to being hit from people like George Xu and Bruce Frantzis who threw me around like a rag doll the first time I touched arms with him. I know internal power when I feel it and I can tell if you have it pretty quickly. You seem to feel strongly that GC has helped you. I notice you are in Roseville, H. That's not so far from me in SF. You are more than welcome to email if you have any questions or if you want to demonstrate anything that you have learned in the way of Jin from GC on me.