GARY CLYMAN DEMONSTRATES EMPTY FORCE!

[Kameel]

Stig,

You want to see magic? Guess what happens when double-blind placebo controlled studies don't show what the people/company paying for the studies want to see. Ta-dah. They vanish (or the study parameters change or info. is fudged, or etc.) I'm not much of a conspiricist, but have seen this with my own eyes. See if you can get involved (behind the scenes) with a study sometime. Your stance on this may change.

[MBZ]

wow im actually shocked by some of the responses. Gary does come on a little strong but i find that it is due to his intense passion for what he does. Gary is the type of person that will help anyone he can. He is largley misunderstood.

 

 

 

Now about his emotional lyposuction he has cured many many diseases with it even demonic possesion.

 

Emotions are thought forms we have charged with a personal feeling. That gets stored in the body's organs. These charged thought forms vibrate inside the body and it is this vibration that unbalances your internal organs and body overall. Now when a jing based pratitioner has cultivated the jing his own vibration will actually vibrate inside his own body and vibrate his being and release those negative lower vibrations from his organs and body. Now each organ actually has its own vibrational level these lower vibrations (negative emotions) actually vibrate slower than what that organ should. Get it? Higher the vibration the higher the vitality. At certain points these lower vibrations can be removed. When Gary touches somebody he actually just vibrates his own internal power to the resonant frequency you should be vibrating at. When he touches those points this causes your organs to vibrate (by induction he is not projecting anything)and activates that point if it hurts then you still have some of those lower vibrations in your organs neuro system. When Gary has done his test he then activates his internal vaccum and runs his vibrational wave power(the current) backwards and sucks out the adnormal vibration.

 

When this happens sometimes the patients will actually relive some of the momments that cause that negative charged vibration. When he is done most patients feel like a bliss or nirvana feeling and overall lighter.

 

You cant do what HE does unless you have jing(internal power)

I hope this clears some things up.

Listen, I don't know the guy and I've never felt his "stuff". I'm only commenting on his verbal skills as I encountered them over the 2 phone conversations I had with him. There wasn't a humble bone in his body and I fail to see how that translates into passion.

 

BLESSINGS!!!

[electric chi magnet]

edit

Edited June 14, 2010 by electric chi magnet

[Stigweard]

very inteligent stigeward.even chi has not been scientific proof.so how do you expect clyman to proof his abilities.

but then again maybe a moderator on tao bums dont belive chi exist

Ahh ... so nice of you to try and make it personal

 

True it is that the "substance" of Qi has not been measured directly with confidence, however, the effects of Qi have been well researched and documented within the environs of double-blind research. Here is a sample of some of the excellent work that has been done:

 

Qigong Institute

 

I believe Ya Mu would also be able to add to this list.

 

OK now to Mr Clyman. A double-blind protocol to test his abilities would be incredibly easy. Simply gather a random sample of test subjects who have no contact with or knowledge of Mr Clyman or any of his students. One by one have them sit in a room blindfolded and then randomly (i.e. flip a coin to determine if an attempt is made on this subject) Mr Clyman does his thing until at least 20 attempts have been made. The results are measured and documented.

 

@Kameel Sure, it isn't breaking news that such things happen. Which is why such experiments are best undertaken by independent, unbiased organizations.

[Guest sykkelpump]

Ahh ... so nice of you to try and make it personal

 

True it is that the "substance" of Qi has not been measured directly with confidence, however, the effects of Qi have been well researched and documented within the environs of double-blind research. Here is a sample of some of the excellent work that has been done:

 

Qigong Institute

 

I believe Ya Mu would also be able to add to this list.

 

OK now to Mr Clyman. A double-blind protocol to test his abilities would be incredibly easy. Simply gather a random sample of test subjects who have no contact with or knowledge of Mr Clyman or any of his students. One by one have them sit in a room blindfolded and then randomly (i.e. flip a coin to determine if an attempt is made on this subject) Mr Clyman does his thing until at least 20 attempts have been made. The results are measured and documented.

 

@Kameel Sure, it isn't breaking news that such things happen. Which is why such experiments are best undertaken by independent, unbiased organizations.

you think that is a scientific proof?

no scientist would accept that.

[SFJane]

you think that is a scientific proof?

no scientist would accept that.

 

Explain why please.

[Guest sykkelpump]

Explain why please.

 

they need to measure the power with some kind of instrument otherwise they would never accept it.why isnt there any scientific proved qi gong masters,is it because they dont exist or is it because a blind test is not good enough

[Stigweard]

they need to measure the power with some kind of instrument otherwise they would never accept it.why isnt there any scientific proved qi gong masters,is it because they dont exist or is it because a blind test is not good enough

Sorry my friend there most definitely are "scientifically proven" qi gong masters. The link I gave you should satisfy your queries in that regard. Specifically, read this paper:

 

An Analytic Review of Studies on Measuring Effects of External Qi in China

 

The bottom line is that, whilst measuring Qi directly is difficult, there is a growing body of research that can confidently measure its effects. In referencing this paper, Mr Clyman makes claim that his abilities fall under category 5) detectors using the human body, that is, a human biological response to the external Qi he is emitting.

 

If Mr Clyman wants to establish some credibility for himself, maybe he should engage in the same studies that have been highlighted, because none of the vids posted are in any way shape or form verifiable proof that he is the "real deal".

 

And truthfully, if Mr Clyman could produce his effects on people under the strict double-blind protocol I have briefly outlined, then scientists would have no option but to take notice.

 

I find it interesting that the individuals who are trying to "make a name for themselves" hide behind their delusional trump-card of "science cant prove it so I wont do these experiments", whilst the real workers quietly participate in scientific studies, like those at the Qigong Institute.

[Mal]

they need to measure the power with some kind of instrument otherwise they would never accept it.

 

You don't need to measure something with an instrument to be scientific. However it is usually done that way in physical sciences but the instrument could be something as simple as a piece of paper recording your observations. Behavioral science uses those sort of forms to record repeatable behavior over time.

 

But it's all just more - yes it can / no it can't

[Guest sykkelpump]

Sorry my friend there most definitely are "scientifically proven" qi gong masters. The link I gave you should satisfy your queries in that regard. Specifically, read this paper:

 

An Analytic Review of Studies on Measuring Effects of External Qi in China

 

The bottom line is that, whilst measuring Qi directly is difficult, there is a growing body of research that can confidently measure its effects. In referencing this paper, Mr Clyman makes claim that his abilities fall under category 5) detectors using the human body, that is, a human biological response to the external Qi he is emitting.

 

If Mr Clyman wants to establish some credibility for himself, maybe he should engage in the same studies that have been highlighted, because none of the vids posted are in any way shape or form verifiable proof that he is the "real deal".

 

And truthfully, if Mr Clyman could produce his effects on people under the strict double-blind protocol I have briefly outlined, then scientists would have no option but to take notice.

 

I find it interesting that the individuals who are trying to "make a name for themselves" hide behind their delusional trump-card of "science cant prove it so I wont do these experiments", whilst the real workers quietly participate in scientific studies, like those at the Qigong Institute.

 

you dont seem to understand.I know they have measured some strange things happening to qi gong practioners.but they cant explain it,because they cant measure or regisrtate the energy (chi),just the effect of it.

so qi gong masters have never documented any superpowers that I know of.but you want clyman to do it.

[Mal]

Totally unrelated but whenever someone mentions machines I always think of Egely wheels

[Andrei]

they need to measure the power with some kind of instrument otherwise they would never accept it.why isnt there any scientific proved qi gong masters,is it because they dont exist or is it because a blind test is not good enough

 

do you know how the scientists decides if a drug is effective treating some ilness or not?

 

they took two groups of patients diagnosed with the disease, they give the drug to one group and a placebo pill (sugar) to the other. of course the patients don't know what they receive, the nurses don't know what they give to the patients (double blind). then they record the statistics, if the group that received the drug had more than 50% of the patients number some effects, with the condition that the other group with placebo did not have any significant effect, then they consider the drug effective. so, yes this is very much a scientifically method of testing on humans, without using instruments.

 

if you want the method detailed, you find it described in "DMT spirit molecule" by Rick Strassman

[Guest sykkelpump]

do you know how the scientists decides if a drug is effective treating some ilness or not?

 

they took two groups of patients diagnosed with the disease, they give the drug to one group and a placebo pill (sugar) to the other. of course the patients don't know what they receive, the nurses don't know what they give to the patients (double blind). then they record the statistics, if the group that received the drug had more than 50% of the patients number some effects, with the condition that the other group with placebo did not have any significant effect, then they consider the drug effective. so, yes this is very much a scientifically method of testing on humans, without using instruments.

 

if you want the method detailed, you find it described in "DMT spirit molecule" by Rick Strassman

 

please,I hope you understand more than this.its not compareable.you cant prove that chi exist with a blind test.

[SFJane]

do you know how the scientists decides if a drug is effective treating some ilness or not?

 

they took two groups of patients diagnosed with the disease, they give the drug to one group and a placebo pill (sugar) to the other. of course the patients don't know what they receive, the nurses don't know what they give to the patients (double blind). then they record the statistics, if the group that received the drug had more than 50% of the patients number some effects, with the condition that the other group with placebo did not have any significant effect, then they consider the drug effective. so, yes this is very much a scientifically method of testing on humans, without using instruments.

 

if you want the method detailed, you find it described in "DMT spirit molecule" by Rick Strassman

 

This is my understanding as well. I agreed with Stig's idea and did not agree with sykkel that this does not constitute valid evidence.

 

You can detect the existence of something by it's effects on something else that is being observed. Like the way they discover planets now. Scientists can't image planets but they can detect the presence of a planet by analyzing gravitational perturbations of the star that they orbit.

 

Even if the magnetic chi that we feel in our hands and bodies can not be measured with a device (yet), the effects of focusing it in certain ways can be detected by changes in the states of the objects being targeted. If someone can use chi to reliably vacuum someone's physical or emotional blocks that can be determined with strict protocols.

Edited March 5, 2010 by SFJane

[Mal]

Actually science can't "prove" anything, only fail to disprove it. That's what experimental hypothesis testing, the basis of the scientific method, is all about.

 

But this is a pointless argument.

[Guest sykkelpump]

Actually science can't "prove" anything, only fail to disprove it. That's what experimental hypothesis testing, the basis of the scientific method, is all about.

 

But this is a pointless argument.

 

yes,you are right.its pointless argument

[Mal]

I was just about to rewrite as

"but this argument has no value" apparently acceptable. All these "to be's" I feel like I have returned to the part of English I really hated in school.

[Stigweard]

you dont seem to understand.I know they have measured some strange things happening to qi gong practioners.but they cant explain it,because they cant measure or regisrtate the energy (chi),just the effect of it.

so qi gong masters have never documented any superpowers that I know of.but you want clyman to do it.

Interesting term that: "superpowers".

 

Is the ability to reduce cancer growth a superpower?

 

Is the ability to intentionally increase or decrease bacteria growth in petri dishes a superpower?

 

Is the ability to cure paralysis a superpower?

 

These double blind studies have proven that, when a well-trained qigong practitioner enters into the qigong state of mind, these effects are possible defying conventional models of bio-medicine.

 

You have to accept that the process of scientific study is just that ... a process. It is a process of accumulated data and research, of proving and disproving theorums, of honing and rehoning our understanding of a subject.

 

The benefits and effects of qigong have been scientifically proven ... that is now a stand alone fact. And the research continues to find a way to measure qi in quantifiable ways. Can we be so arrogant as to say that Qi will "never" be detected and measured with external instruments? Scientific history proves that such bigoted stances are destined for embarrassment.

 

And back to Mr Clyman, I don't know the laws in the US, but here in Australia it is an offense against the law to produce marketing material that "claims" benefits to people's health without being able to substantiate those claims up with independent scientific verification. Now by Mr Clyman broadcasting his services with these videos he is most certainly making a claim of "superpowers", and so, from the point of view of the law, the moral and legal imperative is on him to accompany these claims with the relevant proofs of validity.

[Guest sykkelpump]

Interesting term that: "superpowers".

 

Is the ability to reduce cancer growth a superpower?

 

Is the ability to intentionally increase or decrease bacteria growth in petri dishes a superpower?

 

Is the ability to cure paralysis a superpower?

 

These double blind studies have proven that, when a well-trained qigong practitioner enters into the qigong state of mind, these effects are possible defying conventional models of bio-medicine.

 

You have to accept that the process of scientific study is just that ... a process. It is a process of accumulated data and research, of proving and disproving theorums, of honing and rehoning our understanding of a subject.

 

The have been scientifically proven ... that is now a stand alone fact. And the research continues to find a way to measure qi in quantifiable ways. Can we be so arrogant as to say that Qi will "never" be detected and measured with external instruments? Scientific history proves that such bigoted stances are destined for embarrassment.

 

And back to Mr Clyman, I don't know the laws in the US, but here in Australia it is an offense against the law to produce marketing material that "claims" benefits to people's health without being able to substantiate . Now by Mr Clyman broadcasting his services with these videos he is most certainly making a claim of "superpowers", and so, from the point of view of the law, the moral and legal imperative is on him to accompany these claims with the relevant proofs of validity.

I am not talking about the benefits and effects of qigong.im am talking about as long as scientist cant measure chi,the ingridiens that cause this benefits or changes in the body.they will not accept it as a scientific fact.nobody else have convinced the scientists that they have this invisible energy,but you want clyman to do it otherwise he is fake.

why are so against clyman,I think he is one of the few with some real internal skills,if you want to sue somebody for produce marketing material that "claims" benefits to people's health without being able to substantiate those claims up with independent scientific verification.well then you can start on this forum first.

[Andrei]

measuring qi through instruments is possible now:

 

[Stigweard]

I am not talking about the benefits and effects of qigong.im am talking about as long as scientist cant measure chi,the ingridiens that cause this benefits or changes in the body.they will not accept it as a scientific fact.nobody else have convinced the scientists that they have this invisible energy,but you want clyman to do it otherwise he is fake.

why are so against clyman,I think he is one of the few with some real internal skills,if you want to sue somebody for produce marketing material that "claims" benefits to people's health without being able to substantiate those claims up with independent scientific verification.well then you can start on this forum first.

Don't get me wrong now friend, I am not "against" Mr Clyman in any way. I am just saying that a little impartial objectivity goes a long way.

 

You are most welcome to think and believe any way you choose.

 

[Guest sykkelpump]

measuring qi through instruments is possible now:

 

he doesnt talk much about chi,but he says about 6 min that it is not accepted yet and there is a lot of objections and discussion about this method.

I dont know why you guys discuss this.Everybody knows it is not an accepted fact yet that chi exists.and before that happens it wont be poissible for qi gong masters to be accepted by the scientists.

[Stigweard]

he doesnt talk much about chi,but he says about 6 min that it is not accepted yet and there is a lot of objections and discussion about this method.

I dont know why you guys discuss this.Everybody knows it is not an accepted fact yet that chi exists.and before that happens it wont be poissible for qi gong masters to be accepted by the scientists.

You see the problem here is that you use a VERY BIG brush when you say make statements that imply 'all scientists'. That assertion is fundamentally incorrect, and I point you toward the Qigong Institute again.

 

Or aren't the researchers there 'scientists'? Aren't their scientific methods valid?

 

To the contrary, they are most definitely scientists and they do embrace the reality of Qi. And it is these scientists who are pioneering the way into creating an ever-increasing body of statistical data to bring more and more credibility to the reality of Qi and the human ability to manipulate it.

 

Just because they are not the predominate main-stream that does not invalidate them and their scientific research.

 

So again, your statements that imply all scientists don't accept Qi is quite simply wrong.

 

Now to stay on topic. Mr Clyman may certainly be the real deal, I just think his 'message' would be more effective if he produced demonstrations that weren't so easily discredited. Maybe you should talk with him about the test I have suggested.

 

[Eternal_Student]

You see the problem here is that you use a VERY BIG brush when you say make statements that imply 'all scientists'. That assertion is fundamentally incorrect, and I point you toward the Qigong Institute again.

 

Or aren't the researchers there 'scientists'? Aren't their scientific methods valid?

 

To the contrary, they are most definitely scientists and they do embrace the reality of Qi. And it is these scientists who are pioneering the way into creating an ever-increasing body of statistical data to bring more and more credibility to the reality of Qi and the human ability to manipulate it.

 

 

 

 

http://www.qigong.se/websideenglish/research/reserch.htm

[Stigweard]

http://www.qigong.se/websideenglish/research/reserch.htm

Nice link ... Thank you very much for that