Master Eric Yudelove

[宁]

Well, to tell you the truth Craig, i for one don't mind people not agreeing with my posts, i don't even mind being insulted that much... on one condition thou:

if i'm offered some good alternative

a valuable thought

a new idea

perspective

...

I'm here to learn, and possibly share. And ready to give and take anything, harshness included.

If we were complete and satisfied, would we ever be on the TTB in the first place?

[thelerner]

Hurry Mal, Hurry...stop Erdweir before he posts again. He can't help himself. He's an admitted postaholic.

 

 

 

Give us a break (by not answering this ) quit the drama and don't look, don't post, just... like... that... simple...

 

 

 

[Taomeow]

Are you sure it's an index finger?

I'm hoping it is. Otherwise all those bird-gods of antiquity take on a whole new meaning.

[sifusufi]

RE: HAIR BREATHING!

 

Eric, Hope you see this, never fails to put a smile on my face!

 

[sifusufi]

Since my last post I have been in the backyard Rooting as described on pages 114-116 of Taoist Yoga and Sexual Energy, facing east next to a pine tree enjoying being alive.

Threw in some Ginga(the foot is healing well)and was wondering?

 

Why aren't we discussing the "GOOD STUFF" Eric has shared with us?

I picked up my first Taoist Yoga in Glendale, AZ in Jan 2004

 

My 2nd in Highland, IND after the binding on the first broke, if I find a good thing I am wont to share it with others.

 

In the Dedication Jimmy Page appears, selling point # 1 !

 

NO ONE!!! has mentioned any of the techniques (good bad or indifferent)

 

I personally have yet to find anything as cool in any commercial of privately owned bookstore.

No one else has offered up (thrown down) any "product" that is superior, inferior, posterior...

 

So before we pickup our Guitars, Sitars ...(read toys)... and go home lets discuss what is good, what works

and lets ROCK!!!

[Mal]

An opportunity to engage someone in conversation is what TTB should afford.

For many who dare to expose themselves personally TTB becomes a public venue for personal attacks.

 

All in all this exchange seems like an opportunity missed.

 

A few days ago I thought myself "this represents an opportunity to get guided through those 100 day programs by the person who wrote them" People raised some good practice related questions. (Sifusifu I remembered that I have not practiced hair breathing for a while.) But opportunity missed, or just wrong place wrong time, either way

 

Anyone is free to call BS in any situation but what's the point? are you going to protect all the poor souls out there who might be led astray by evil sorcerers?

 

After reviewing this thread I must also wonder if the poor souls really need protection? Sure we have youngsters and people starting out on their journey, but also people with a lot of life experience more than capable of making their own informed decisions. The few calling BS may well have good intentions, but once again the actions of the few have overshadowed the actions of the many.

 

[Sahaj Nath]

LOL!

 

you guys make it sound like people were talking about his mother or telling him to go F himself or something. as far as message board quarrels go, this thread is really small-time.

 

maybe i missed the really bad stuff because those posts were edited or something? but i doubt it. most (if not all) of the editing has been from eric and his wife. because they were just SO hurt, right? not at all because some of what they wrote was sketchy.

 

maybe his Taoist Yoga book IS great, and maybe he has no business guiding anyone through that material. maybe both are true. and maybe the bigger tragedy his how he chose to represent himself here, and how he reacted to people calling BS. people keeping quiet when dubious claims and questionable characters arise is NOT my definition of respect. and i really don't see this gross disrespect that many of you are talking about. MUCH, MUCH worse has occurred here.

 

so WHATEVER! what sifusufi said was a good idea. how about you all start talking about the actual practices? what was good? what was not so much?

 

i have the book myself. and yes, i actually read it. so i wouldn't mind seeing or maybe even engaging in a practical discussion.

[Mal]

[quote name=Hundun' date='14 March 2010 - 03:55 PM'

timestamp='1268546124' post='180931]

and maybe the bigger tragedy his how he chose to represent himself here, and how he reacted to people calling BS.

Yes lets blame the victim. The way Eric and Dian posted was practically an open invitation to attack them.

 

[quote name=Hundun' date='14 March 2010 - 03:55 PM'

timestamp='1268546124' post='180931]

and i really don't see this gross disrespect that many of you are talking about. MUCH, MUCH worse has occurred here.

 

Much worse certainly has occurred here, and that is not a good thing.

 

i have the book myself. and yes, i actually read it. so i wouldn't mind seeing or maybe even engaging in a practical discussion.

 

I would like that too, but it's sort of pointless now. Books are out of print and the author chased away. Long term posters leaving too. Heck I'm a moderator and even I won't discuss my own practices here, it's just not worth the flack. The whole episode just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Which is unfortunate as the overwhelming majority of 'bums have such useful things to say. And Hundun is correct, it was not even that bad by Tao Bums standards, but in this case it was more than enough.

[Sahaj Nath]

c'mon, Mal. blame the victim? not even close, brother. and shame on you for even going there. so they have ZERO responsibility in any of this? they shouldn't be held at all accountable for their claims, conduct, actions? really? and how they represented themselves and reacted to criticism said nothing at all about their character?

 

last i checked, they were adults. and educated, successful adults at that. you're crying foul, over what? their own words and behavior being thrown back in their faces? THAT'S the victimization that has occurred? is it even possible for a lawyer/mercenary to be so thin-skinned? i doubt it. more likely a tactical ploy to save face and garner sympathy in a single motion. a tactic that you seem to be eating up quite readily.

 

 

and why would a practical discussion be pointless? the author is not the authority on the techniques. practice of the techniques is the authority! and at least 2 of his books are readily available. both his 100 days book (kinda weak) and his Taoist Yoga book (much better) are available on Amazon, and plenty of people have them already. so why would it be pointless? only if you consider the "VICTIM" identity you've conferred on him more important than the practical discussion would it be pointless. and even then, only pointless for you and the bums who agree with you. but it's certainly not objectively or practically pointless.

 

YOUR OWN PRACTICE is the authority on the techniques. NOT the author (who who was not the creator).

 

if you don't want to talk about it, it's not out of futility. it's in protest. and that's fine. that's your call.

[Mal]

Yes, I almost deleted the victim thing twice, but I immediately thought of that parallel. Even I have strong opinions now and then. So I went with it and I still feel that way and feel no need to clarify further, if at all possible. However I will clarify pointless. I would personally be interested in Eric's opinion, not much chance of that now.

 

I really don't have anything I can say about the books. I have not read them. My apologies as they are not out of print, I was only looking for one of them and made an assumption. While I did track down a well priced copy of Tao and the Tree it will take a while for it to arrive.

 

While I practice Hair and Bone breathing along with sexual kung fu. I don't know how my methods would relate and doubt I would have much of value to offer a discussion. Given my teacher gets tarred and feathered on TTB I also have no motivation to try. But I should not have suggested others could not contribute, especially since previously in this thread I asked others for their opinions and received helpful responses.

[Eric Yudelove]

c'mon, Mal. blame the victim? not even close, brother. and shame on you for even going there. so they have ZERO responsibility in any of this? they shouldn't be held at all accountable for their claims, conduct, actions? really? and how they represented themselves and reacted to criticism said nothing at all about their character?

 

last i checked, they were adults. and educated, successful adults at that. you're crying foul, over what? their own words and behavior being thrown back in their faces? THAT'S the victimization that has occurred? is it even possible for a lawyer/mercenary to be so thin-skinned? i doubt it. more likely a tactical ploy to save face and garner sympathy in a single motion. a tactic that you seem to be eating up quite readily.

 

 

and why would a practical discussion be pointless? the author is not the authority on the techniques. practice of the techniques is the authority! and at least 2 of his books are readily available. both his 100 days book (kinda weak) and his Taoist Yoga book (much better) are available on Amazon, and plenty of people have them already. so why would it be pointless? only if you consider the "VICTIM" identity you've conferred on him more important than the practical discussion would it be pointless. and even then, only pointless for you and the bums who agree with you. but it's certainly not objectively or practically pointless.

 

YOUR OWN PRACTICE is the authority on the techniques. NOT the author (who who was not the creator).

 

if you don't want to talk about it, it's not out of futility. it's in protest. and that's fine. that's your call.

 

This is part of an e-mail I sent to Mal a few days ago:

 

"Dian was really shocked and appalled at the behavior on TTB. I wasn't. But what's the point? There are some good people there but overall I was getting nothing from it but flack. Why make myself a target to the lowest common denominator? I have other things to occupy my time.

Forget myself, I really couldn't believe the attacks on Mantak Chia. I 1st knew him when he barely had a pot to piss in. I can't say that he's the greatest thing since white bread, but hey, a little respect. The Internet has seemed to have thrown civility & good manners down the toilet. It is a sad commentary on our times when people who call themselves Taoists behave like self-righteous spoiled nasty brats."

 

This is new:

 

I found nothing to learn here, nothing to share here. I invite anyone who would like to share or seek some advice to e-mail me at [email protected]. But this place has become a cesspool for too many who think "My Tao is better than your Tao" or "Your Tao doesn't live up to My expectations of the Real Tao" or "My Tao Master is a real Tao Master but your Tao Master is an Asshole" or "My Tao Master has sublime lineage reaching back to the Mongol Invasion but your Tao Master has no lineage and must have must have decended from the Mother Ship" or" My Tao is more Spiritual than Your Tao, so you're an asshole."

Tao is something to live in harmony with, not something you think you can possess or hold over someone's head like a sword."

I'm sure this post will again open me up to further attacks, from the Peanut Gallery, that's what I've come to expect here. But hey, I've been attacked by the best of them, people who really wanted to hurt me or worse and I'm still standing. I live the life I choose to live, I don't have to live by your rules. That's enough Tao for me. What's enough Tao for each of you is something you'll have to discover for yourself.

 

Eric Yudelove

Edited March 14, 2010 by Eric Yudelove

[宁]

Eric,

 

you know, there is this saying: what do you prefer, being right or having friends, because you cannot have both.

 

this time i agree with Hundun's last post. these practices were never openly discussed, that is, not by an author facing his readers/disciples, to dismantle the possible problems and issues.

as far as i'm concerned, whether you like it or not, you still have a responsability towards the people that are ready to practice what you write.

master chia couldn't do this, because he is still, in many ways, a Chinese. but you are a westerner and understand how westerners think, and have the experience that allows you not to feel diminished by some random idiotic comment.

 

who do you want people to turn to? eleanor roosevelt once said: those that want be light bearers, must be able to endure burning. i think you already knew this was going to happen.

sure, it's your choise and i can respect it, especially if they attack your wife - who's posts, btw, i enjoy very much. i feel she is a wonderful person. you can tell her that there are alot of people that enjoy her posts. not many write, but that doesn't mean she's not appreciated. the same applies to your posts also!

 

anyway you want to draw a line, we can do little about it. but still,

if you'd choose to speak and share, my feeling is, you will have a great echo...

many nice people can and will listen to what you have to say.

 

sincerely

 

L1

[markern]

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/13975-eric-yudeloves-teachings/

 

I made a thread to discuss Eric Yudeloves actual teachings. The thread is reserved for that alone. No questions about his person allowed ad this thread already fills that function and such questions would ruin discussion of the practices in the thread. Keep those questions here.

[fizix]

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/13975-eric-yudeloves-teachings/

 

I made a thread to discuss Eric Yudeloves actual teachings. The thread is reserved for that alone. No questions about his person allowed ad this thread already fills that function and such questions would ruin discussion of the practices in the thread. Keep those questions here.

Oh wow, the level of nuthuggery on this nut is beyond me; his teachings are mere recycling, and clearly did no good for himself - it bothers me others will be exposed to a potential "dragon master-strip-club-terrorist syndrome". Oh, and for all delusionals who were questioning the validity of a news article, let alone it being from a valid source (albeit when non-political) such as Fox news, have you ever heard of a POLICE REPORT? Public domain? Apparently not, or one is just too blinded by the tempting ways of the DRAGON MASTER. Jesus people, you only think of practicality but disregard the nature of the source? Then again, having an over the top egomania, a stockholm syndrome'd wife, delusions of power/grandeur is undoubtedly appealing to many these days, based on the number of those in itself.

 

edit: oh wow, didn't even read the dragon master's last post where a message he sent to one person (being clearly composed for an audience haha) detailed his hilariously self-unaware hypocrisy and accusations of "self-righteousness". You "found nothing to learn here?" Really? That's a shame, clearly you were looking for nothing to learn, but only an outlet to inflate your already oversized ego, and you didn't accomplish that, so now you're off? Ah, nothing to learn here..? I assure you TTB is an infinitely greater source of valuable information that has helped the lives of many, but the great big bad huffing dragon master is far above such trivial things that don't have his name on the copyright. Haha, great. Not typical at all of the McGuru type such as yourself. Don't you understand people take into account your so many years of life experience, practice and teachings and subsequently relate them to your character? Also, clearly you were a lawyer, I applaud you that, your postings no doubt aptly emulate the manipulative musings of a lawyer who says things on an argument/rhetorical level to save face.

Edited March 14, 2010 by fizix

[Pietro]

Oh wow, the level of nuthuggery on this nut is beyond me; his teachings are mere recycling, and clearly did no good for himself - it bothers me others will be exposed to a potential "dragon master-strip-club-terrorist syndrome". Oh, and for all delusionals who were questioning the validity of a news article, let alone it being from a valid source (albeit when non-political) such as Fox news, have you ever heard of a POLICE REPORT? Public domain? Apparently not, or one is just too blinded by the tempting ways of the DRAGON MASTER. Jesus people, you only think of practicality but disregard the nature of the source? Then again, having an over the top egomania, a stockholm syndrome'd wife, delusions of power/grandeur is undoubtedly appealing to many these days, based on the number of those in itself.

 

whose teachings are not recycling?

 

There is an art in being able to explain things clearly. And Eric quite obviously have mastered that. If not anything else I can assure you that he is a master in that. Also, although most (but not all) of the techniques in Eric's books were taken from Mantak Chia, the way those techniques are done together is a technique in itself. And that I have never found anywhere else.

 

I sign with my name,

Eric signs with his name,

who are you "fizix"?

 

Pietro

[Aetherous]

Yeah the dragon master's ego has gotten the best of him. So has mine, and yours.

 

...Lets have tea?

Edited March 14, 2010 by Scotty

[fizix]

whose teachings are not recycling?

 

There is an art in being able to explain things clearly. And Eric quite obviously have mastered that. If not anything else I can assure you that he is a master in that. Also, although most (but not all) of the techniques in Eric's books were taken from Mantak Chia, the way those techniques are done together is a technique in itself. And that I have never found anywhere else.

 

I sign with my name,

Eric signs with his name,

who are you "fizix"?

 

Pietro

ahahaha, take the most irrelevant, singular aspect of my post to comment on and nothing else? That is only one piece of the pie, and perhaps if you looked deeper you would see it's place in the puzzle. I'll gladly edit out that statement; oh wait, no I won't, because unlike the Dragon Master I don't have an obsession of ego-status-and-reputation and am not compelled to edit prior messages to save face and play the victim. I understand the a good number of this board is filled with highly right-brained, logically/sequentially inept people who only pick and point instead of look at the whole picture with a respect to logical analysis, but it's comforting knowing that there are other people who can see the big picture of this guy and take into account what needs to be taken into account, not just the matter of having something written pass through a printing press a few times.

[Pietro]

ahahaha, take the most irrelevant, singular aspect of my post to comment on and nothing else? That is only one piece of the pie, and perhaps if you looked deeper you would see it's place in the puzzle. I'll gladly edit out that statement; oh wait, no I won't, because unlike the Dragon Master I don't have an obsession of ego-status-and-reputation and am not compelled to edit prior messages to save face and play the victim. I understand the a good number of this board is filled with highly right-brained, logically/sequentially inept people who only pick and point instead of look at the whole picture with a respect to logical analysis, but it's comforting knowing that there are other people who can see the big picture of this guy and take into account what needs to be taken into account, not just the matter of having something written pass through a printing press a few times.

 

That's because his books are the only part that should matter.

 

I know Eric from 1998. I have seen fall apart for the pain of being unable to help his ex wife. I have seen people attacking him at the time when he signed "senior instructor", and I have seen responding with style, humor and sometimes anger. I am happy that he is back.

 

What I am seeing here is a mere reproduction of what I have seen again and again. With Eric emailing the powers (at the time it was James), protesting for how bad he has been treated. But I also have been helped by Eric when I was falling apart.

 

Maybe the real change that has happened is that the board has matured. In the old times the board would fall in of guru-itis for any perspective leader that would come there. As we aged, and as new members with more diverse experience came in, we started being less and less susceptible to falling in stupor every time a new school, teacher master would come in.

 

And this, I think, is a very healthy movement. But, you see, between falling into guru-itis, and becoming aggressively offensive there is a healthy middle way. Do you think you could walk that way?

 

Beside, you really sound so angry:

ahahaha, take the most irrelevant, singular aspect of my post to comment on and nothing else? That is only one piece of the pie, and perhaps if you looked deeper you would see it's place in the puzzle. I'll gladly edit out that statement; oh wait, no I won't, because unlike the Dragon Master I don't have an obsession of ego-status-and-reputation and am not compelled to edit prior messages to save face and play the victim. I understand the a good number of this board is filled with highly right-brained, logically/sequentially inept people who only pick and point instead of look at the whole picture with a respect to logical analysis, but it's comforting knowing that there are other people who can see the big picture of this guy and take into account what needs to be taken into account, not just the matter of having something written pass through a printing press a few times.

 

 

Look, I have placed in bold the words that look aggressive.

 

Why are you so angry?

 

Pietro

[Fire Dragon]

This is part of an e-mail I sent to Mal a few days ago:

 

"Dian was really shocked and appalled at the behavior on TTB. I wasn't. But what's the point? There are some good people there but overall I was getting nothing from it but flack. Why make myself a target to the lowest common denominator? I have other things to occupy my time.

Forget myself, I really couldn't believe the attacks on Mantak Chia. I 1st knew him when he barely had a pot to piss in. I can't say that he's the greatest thing since white bread, but hey, a little respect. The Internet has seemed to have thrown civility & good manners down the toilet. It is a sad commentary on our times when people who call themselves Taoists behave like self-righteous spoiled nasty brats."

 

This is new:

 

I found nothing to learn here, nothing to share here. I invite anyone who would like to share or seek some advice to e-mail me at [email protected]. But this place has become a cesspool for too many who think "My Tao is better than your Tao" or "Your Tao doesn't live up to My expectations of the Real Tao" or "My Tao Master is a real Tao Master but your Tao Master is an Asshole" or "My Tao Master has sublime lineage reaching back to the Mongol Invasion but your Tao Master has no lineage and must have must have decended from the Mother Ship" or" My Tao is more Spiritual than Your Tao, so you're an asshole."

Tao is something to live in harmony with, not something you think you can possess or hold over someone's head like a sword."

I'm sure this post will again open me up to further attacks, from the Peanut Gallery, that's what I've come to expect here. But hey, I've been attacked by the best of them, people who really wanted to hurt me or worse and I'm still standing. I live the life I choose to live, I don't have to live by your rules. That's enough Tao for me. What's enough Tao for each of you is something you'll have to discover for yourself.

 

Eric Yudelove

 

 

Hello

 

Sorry to hear that it sounds that you two are leaving, I hope I am wrong though. I want to thank you for your sharing of your life from today. I enyojed to see the photos of you your wife and your animals and to hear something about your life. It was also good to hear you say something about the story in the newspaper, beacase that have been about the only information about your life accesible on the internet. Anyway I have been interested in what realy happened and did write about it before, actually that question was what brougth me to tao-bums in the first place. Here I might get some answers about my question on that article someone told me. Anyway what realy happened or not happened is not of any interest for me anymore. It is much more interesting to see that you seem to live a happy life and that you are back and willing to share with others things about your life.

 

I'm sorry if people on the tao bums have behaved in a rude and somewhat unmatured way. I myself should enjoy wery much if you prefered to stay with us on this bord. It should be interesting to share with my and my groups development in your system and to also speak with sparkle about her practise in the system. Especially interesting with a woman practising this and also to follow her and compare here development with our own also to see the importance of having a good teacher nearby to learn from. I also think that there is alot rubish going on in the way as you did desctibe in your own post. There is to much of critisism of other system going on, I agree with that. Perhaps there always will be contradictions betweean different ways of teaching taoist practises and other energy works. There seems to be fundamental difference in how different system build up and develope theire, what to say, progress. But perhaps I know to litle to speak about that. Often I guess it seems to be different roads to the same end goal.

 

As I have said before I am happy to have heard from you and from Sparkle and to see that you are alive and are living your life. Perhaps it is possible for you to enjoy the good posts and parts from the tao-bums and from time to time continue to visit us and share with us from your life, practise and knowledge. Perhaps it is possible to let the storm pass by and not to not contribute with posts that are not developing anything, to just ignore that part. But if you not want to I have full respect for your decissions.

 

I which you to a continuous happy marriage and good Jing, chi and shen

 

 

Fire Dragon

[markern]

Oh wow, the level of nuthuggery on this nut is beyond me; his teachings are mere recycling, and clearly did no good for himself - it bothers me others will be exposed to a potential "dragon master-strip-club-terrorist syndrome". Oh, and for all delusionals who were questioning the validity of a news article, let alone it being from a valid source (albeit when non-political) such as Fox news, have you ever heard of a POLICE REPORT? Public domain? Apparently not, or one is just too blinded by the tempting ways of the DRAGON MASTER. Jesus people, you only think of practicality but disregard the nature of the source? Then again, having an over the top egomania, a stockholm syndrome'd wife, delusions of power/grandeur is undoubtedly appealing to many these days, based on the number of those in itself.

 

edit: oh wow, didn't even read the dragon master's last post where a message he sent to one person (being clearly composed for an audience haha) detailed his hilariously self-unaware hypocrisy and accusations of "self-righteousness". You "found nothing to learn here?" Really? That's a shame, clearly you were looking for nothing to learn, but only an outlet to inflate your already oversized ego, and you didn't accomplish that, so now you're off? Ah, nothing to learn here..? I assure you TTB is an infinitely greater source of valuable information that has helped the lives of many, but the great big bad huffing dragon master is far above such trivial things that don't have his name on the copyright. Haha, great. Not typical at all of the McGuru type such as yourself. Don't you understand people take into account your so many years of life experience, practice and teachings and subsequently relate them to your character? Also, clearly you were a lawyer, I applaud you that, your postings no doubt aptly emulate the manipulative musings of a lawyer who says things on an argument/rhetorical level to save face.

 

 

Well, I am actually one of those that think this discussion of MR. Yudelove is unproblematic, I just also want to discuss his teachings as I find it interesting, probably valuable for others, and valuable for myself as I have adjusted my own practice about acording to his book and had success with it.

 

I think that when you are a spiritual teacher, and even proclaim yourself a master, and you get arrested for that kind of episode, it is only to be expected that you will be confronted with this in forums. As has been mentioned the practices could be destabilizing for one. People also expect cultivation to lead to a beneficial personality development, especially at master levels and are right in inquiring to whom they put their trust as a teacher/master can have huge influence on their thinking and lives. If the master is not a good person or just plain crazy one is usually best served by staying far away in order to protect oneself, at least one needs to aproach with great caution. So any "master" of spiritual teachings has no right to get offended for being confronted with such an episode. He might not be to blame for what happened, he might be falsely acused, but that does not give him the right to be offended by being asced to explain himself with regards to what happened. If he can explain/defend himself properly giving a good argument for not having been to blame or if he admits wrongdoing and is sorry for it, then he has the right to get offended if his explaination or remorse is not met with proper respect. If his explanation is not good/credible or he shows no remorse then he has no right to be offended by peoples scepticism and anyone would be justified in being sceptical of the master.

 

To me Mr. Yudeloves explanations sounded very thin, the whole thing about being an assasin is much, much worse then the strip club episode itself IMO and his explanations and talk about himself in general makes him seem unstable and with a self agrandizement problem in my mind. He comes of baaad IMO. I would have been perfectly willing to not pay any attention to this story had his explanation sounded very plausible and had he otherwise come of as sensible. A lot of quality taobummers agree with that. I genuinly worry about him like with some of the other unstable characters taht sometimes drop by.

 

I would stil like to discuss his practices with him. I can cetainly understand if he is not very interested after what I wrote here, although as I said there is no fault in such a case to be openly critical of him, but I liked his book and would at least want to hear his perspective on things. I am I more sceptical now than I was before of his teachings but at least up to the level his books describe stuff looks good to me, anyone I have read talking about practicing it has had good results, and there are several people her that want to practice his stuff and compare experiences so we will figure out if there are faults with it. With any practice were we don`t already have GOOD "data" of how the practioners turn out there will always be risks regardless of how saintly the master is. Comparing experience on the broadest possible scale is the way forward in figuring out what is safe and effeicient and what is not.

 

It is unfortunate that these kinds of critical questions also reduces the chances of him being interested in sharing his vast knowledge but I don`t see how sweeping this under the carpet would have been the way to go. At aypsite.org they consistently deny posts that are critical of gurus regardless of how outrages and evil and proven the actions of the guru is. For example a post I made about Sai Baba being documented with camera footage as a fraud using magick tricks and being accused by many young men of sexual abuse was sensored. This was in a thread were several people had met him in person and others could easily have felt encouraged to go see him himself and possibly become his diciples putting themselves at high risk of sexual abuse and under the guidance of a fraud and complete psycho. To maintain a civil tone were no one got offended and to focus on usefull discussion my post was rejected. Maintaining such a policy at spiritual forums in general will lead to hoards of people becoming subject to abuse and or teachings that can be detrimental as spiritual forums are the place they have the best chance of getting such warnings.

 

(Would just like to underline that I am of course in no way comparing Yudelove to Sai Baba and Sai Babas wrongdoings. It is just meant as an example of bad censorship policies in the name of civility and valuable discussion).

Edited March 14, 2010 by markern

[Trunk]

Well, I am actually one of those that think this discussion of MR. Yudelove is unproblematic, I just also want to discuss his teachings as I find it interesting, probably valuable for others, ...

 

A few thoughts, probably nothing that's not been said already...

(And please don't take this to mean that I'm on any particular "side" of this conflict, if there's still any conflict at all.)

 

Seems to me that an absolutely critically important attribute of this community is the ability/space/dynamic of being able to call bullshit.

 

This is especially generally lacking in the field of religion/spirituality, and even more so once you get within the settings of specific schools. Intelligent dissent and discussion often just doesn't occur within the (often somewhat dysfunctional) micro-cultures of schools. That's why TTBs is especially valuable in that it's unaffiliated with any school and is an open level playing field for discussion.

 

The living edge of intelligent dissent simply must exist in this discussion forum for it not to be over-run by spiritual hogwash. It's about keeping discernment alive and well.

 

That said, disagreement has gotta be voiced without it becoming crass attack. And that comes to each of us to create and contribute to a community atmosphere that is discerning and civil. Moderators and rules are sort of the last resort of keeping things civil: the bulk of it is what each of us decides to contribute, intent, tone and content.

 

- Trunk

[mYTHmAKER]

A few days ago I thought myself "this represents an opportunity to get guided through those 100 day programs by the person who wrote them" People raised some good practice related questions. (Sifusifu I remembered that I have not practiced hair breathing for a while.) But opportunity missed, or just wrong place wrong time, either way

 

 

 

After reviewing this thread I must also wonder if the poor souls really need protection? Sure we have youngsters and people starting out on their journey, but also people with a lot of life experience more than capable of making their own informed decisions. The few calling BS may well have good intentions, but once again the actions of the few have overshadowed the actions of the many.

 

 

 

Beautiful photo Mal

Hexagram 11 T'ai/Peace

above The Creative, Heaven, (Dragon)

below The Receptive, Earth

Edited March 14, 2010 by mYTHmAKER

[RyanO]

A few thoughts, probably nothing that's not been said already...

(And please don't take this to mean that I'm on any particular "side" of this conflict, if there's still any conflict at all.)

 

Seems to me that an absolutely critically important attribute of this community is the ability/space/dynamic of being able to call bullshit.

 

This is especially generally lacking in the field of religion/spirituality, and even more so once you get within the settings of specific schools. Intelligent dissent and discussion often just doesn't occur within the (often somewhat dysfunctional) micro-cultures of schools. That's why TTBs is especially valuable in that it's unaffiliated with any school and is an open level playing field for discussion.

 

The living edge of intelligent dissent simply must exist in this discussion forum for it not to be over-run by spiritual hogwash. It's about keeping discernment alive and well.

 

That said, disagreement has gotta be voiced without it becoming crass attack. And that comes to each of us to create and contribute to a community atmosphere that is discerning and civil. Moderators and rules are sort of the last resort of keeping things civil: the bulk of it is what each of us decides to contribute, intent, tone and content.

 

- Trunk

 

I agree. Fantastic post. It should be noted also that to be discerning and civil simultaneously is extremely difficult given the anonymous, distant nature of the internet. See: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GIFT

 

I love this site because it is so eclectic and free. And I think it does a great job of accomplishing a critical yet civil environment, considering the limitations of internet forums.

 

Obviously it's not perfect, but some of the other forums I visit pale in comparison to the civility and respect I experience here, and this especially noteworthy considering that religion and spirituality are very emotionally volatile topics. Just something to think about.

Edited March 14, 2010 by RyanO

[Smile]

One thing though. Some of us still remember all the threats and intimidation, and psychic attacks, with dragons or not. But it's been over 10 years now and if you loose a loved one, it's pretty screwed up and could be a big contributing factor to Eric's going a little nuts. He definitely has something to offer from his experience, even if some people thing it's not what they want. Why do you think he came here? To listen to us bitch about kunlun?

[markern]

A few thoughts, probably nothing that's not been said already...

(And please don't take this to mean that I'm on any particular "side" of this conflict, if there's still any conflict at all.)

 

Seems to me that an absolutely critically important attribute of this community is the ability/space/dynamic of being able to call bullshit.

 

This is especially generally lacking in the field of religion/spirituality, and even more so once you get within the settings of specific schools. Intelligent dissent and discussion often just doesn't occur within the (often somewhat dysfunctional) micro-cultures of schools. That's why TTBs is especially valuable in that it's unaffiliated with any school and is an open level playing field for discussion.

 

The living edge of intelligent dissent simply must exist in this discussion forum for it not to be over-run by spiritual hogwash. It's about keeping discernment alive and well.

 

That said, disagreement has gotta be voiced without it becoming crass attack. And that comes to each of us to create and contribute to a community atmosphere that is discerning and civil. Moderators and rules are sort of the last resort of keeping things civil: the bulk of it is what each of us decides to contribute, intent, tone and content.

 

- Trunk

 

Great post. This is an essential part of why I love this forum and am more comfortable here than most other forums I have been at.