blocking thoughts meditation

[Guest sykkelpump]

have anybody here tried to stop the thoughts at will ,not using mantra or breath or anything else as a tool.just blocking them as fast as you notice them

I have actually had some powerfull experience with it

[Gerard]

The trick is not to block them out but watch them. Try this instead and see how it goes.

[lino]

have anybody here tried to stop the thoughts at will ,not using mantra or breath or anything else as a tool.just blocking them as fast as you notice them

I have actually had some powerfull experience with it

 

How about blocking out somebody else's thoughts?

I'd like to know that one.

[Guest sykkelpump]

The trick is not to block them out but watch them. Try this instead and see how it goes.

yes,I know that.have done a lot of meditation.

but I tell you blocking the thoughts can give you some powerfull experience.much faster than normal meditation

[z00se]

have anybody here tried to stop the thoughts at will ,not using mantra or breath or anything else as a tool.just blocking them as fast as you notice them

I have actually had some powerfull experience with it

 

Yeah i think it's the best way and yes it is super powerful. But you can improve your method by not blocking by force, just relaxing and feeling the energy develop into a thought, then reversing the process so it goes back into energy and bringing the energy down to your dantien so that you recycle the energy of useless thoughts into healing energy. The more you practice the quicker you can do it and you can move the energy before it even changes into a thought. Later you won't get a thought unless you want to and you will actually feel your brain tensing as you try to 'think'.

[z00se]

How about blocking out somebody else's thoughts?

I'd like to know that one.

 

haha yeah me too. Blocking out nagging voices.

 

The ultimate would be imposing your will over the others without them even realising or being able to fight it.

[Guest sykkelpump]

Yeah i think it's the best way and yes it is super powerful. But you can improve your method by not blocking by force, just relaxing and feeling the energy develop into a thought, then reversing the process so it goes back into energy and bringing the energy down to your dantien so that you recycle the energy of useless thoughts into healing energy. The more you practice the quicker you can do it and you can move the energy before it even changes into a thought. Later you won't get a thought unless you want to and you will actually feel your brain tensing as you try to 'think'.

 

when i do it.I try to relax the head as much as poissible.tensing the head dont make your blocking more effective but the opposite.energy develops quickly in dantien.after a while energy builds up in the root chakra and moves up the central channel.very powerfull

[Sloppy Zhang]

Yes, I've tried blocking thoughts. It's interesting. For stuff like western magick and various other things, it is a useful method because it allows you to get something done with complete focus.

 

However, I would say that the "watching thoughts", and "letting them go as they arise" are more useful for a way to live life- you aren't trying to keep stuff out and you aren't taking a risk of repressing stuff or proverbially pushing everything into the closet and forcing the door shut.

 

Yeah i think it's the best way and yes it is super powerful. But you can improve your method by not blocking by force, just relaxing and feeling the energy develop into a thought, then reversing the process so it goes back into energy and bringing the energy down to your dantien so that you recycle the energy of useless thoughts into healing energy. The more you practice the quicker you can do it and you can move the energy before it even changes into a thought. Later you won't get a thought unless you want to and you will actually feel your brain tensing as you try to 'think'.

 

Hm, great, will have to try that

[Gerard]

yes,I know that.have done a lot of meditation.

but I tell you blocking the thoughts can give you some powerfull experience.much faster than normal meditation

 

A. If you are after power, power you will get.

 

B. If you are after enlightenment, enlightenment you will get.

 

 

A requires samatha meditation.

 

B requires vipassana meditation.

 

 

It is not a black and white thing, but to give you an idea it is more or less how it works.

 

I have experience with both and got siddhis from A but got bored with jedi tricks, lol; they lead to nowhere.

[rain]

The trick is not to block them out but watch them. Try this instead and see how it goes.

 

There is a distinction between " watching them" and " ignoring them"

Watching must not lead to entertaining. So I would rather say acknowledge but do not feed or follow.

It is like a platter with cookies. Or a conversation Do not reach for it :-) or start chatting.

If this is hard for you just realize, you may have or do. have or do whatever. Later.

Release. And it becomes unimportant and fades out of mind.

 

Compulsory behavior. Postpone gratification and make little pockets of emtiness...

 

You can also return to breathing and sink down to lower chakra.

I make a distinct effort to separate the

- contemplation and the - meditation.

Edited March 5, 2010 by rain

[hagar]

Why stop your thoughts? Only reason I'd want to stop my thoughts is if I started to believe them.

 

An "empty" mind is not an empty mind, but a relaxed mind.

 

 

h

[de_paradise]

I've done thought blocking meditations, and find its quite good as well. After an hour of vigilance, your mind stays very quiet on its own. There are several levels of what constitutes a thought, but I guess we are talking about the conscious mind nattering to itself about whatever concerns you have. Those should not be "noticed" per se, but turned off through discipline IMO. Because the thoughts that arise on their own, more subconscious variety, such as a thought of some random stuff not even in your own voice--like a female English accented voice talking about peonies and tulips--those thoughts can be blocked too. But here's the real deal: you let those kind go on a little bit, and then note them, as is vispassana noting, or what I do is just label it as "mind" (no-self) What happens is a kind of qi acceleration and a tugging downwards. I think its using the sleep mechanism as a way to get to a deeper meditation state, but whatever the mechanism is, its extremely helpful.

[buscon]

An "empty" mind is not an empty mind, but a relaxed mind.

 

I totally agree

[Guest sykkelpump]

A. If you are after power, power you will get.

 

B. If you are after enlightenment, enlightenment you will get.

 

 

A requires samatha meditation.

 

B requires vipassana meditation.

 

 

It is not a black and white thing, but to give you an idea it is more or less how it works.

 

I have experience with both and got siddhis from A but got bored with jedi tricks, lol; they lead to nowhere.

well,A can lead you to samadhi,and thats not nowhere in my opinion or in most other meditators opinion

[Guest sykkelpump]

Why stop your thoughts? Only reason I'd want to stop my thoughts is if I started to believe them.

 

An "empty" mind is not an empty mind, but a relaxed mind.

 

 

h

 

because it generates a lot of chi.and it can take you to samadhi

[joeblast]

my experience has been that when you're able to quiet things, your body naturally takes those extra resources and puts them towards core processes, its why health is one of the first effects of a good qigong/meditation regimen.

 

imho watching the breath is an easier and more oft traveled route

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

If you are interested, i offer this very natural method of 'stilling the mind', it's simple, effective, and reliable..

 

Get into a favored meditation posture, it makes no difference which it is.. relax a bit and just notice the thought patterns.. then, 'point' the index fingers, point gently until you feel slight tension on the inside surface of the index fingers.. i can't say 'notice the thought patterns, now', i think you will be surprised, but.. if you do this, please share your experiences with me.. this is a physical link to the spiritual experience, and only a surface indication of the potential..

 

Be well..

[rain]

Why stop your thoughts? Only reason I'd want to stop my thoughts is if I started to believe them.

 

An "empty" mind is not an empty mind, but a relaxed mind.

 

 

h

 

NO

 

empty is more than relaxed

or better say less

it is without concept

 

uten innhold

 

beyond debate also

Edited March 5, 2010 by rain

[hagar]

NO

 

empty is more than relaxed

or better say less

it is without concept

 

uten innhold

 

beyond debate also

 

I see what you mean Rain.

 

And its very silly of me to actually debate this at all. Its a proof that this is not written with an empty mind.=)

 

Point is, there is no living being that has a completely empty (whatever that means) mind. That is a brain dead mind. After considerable time and effort in and out of sitting meditation, and done correctly you may have larger "gaps" btw thoughts, i.e meaning that the discursive mind is less engaged, and not identified with. Thus, what I meant with a relaxed mind is just a mind detached from its own activity a mind recognizing that what experiences the mind is beyond the mind.

 

My own garden-variety experience of this is that there is a kind of shift. The feeling of the "gap" is not something that leads to bigger and bigger gaps. Its more that the gaps gives you a glimpse of someting that comes throug it. Suddenly you kind of feel you're allready there, no need to still anything, because what does the stilling is allready always the stillness and silence itself. There is no place to go, nothing to stop, nothing to let go of, noting to transform. It feels like when you see the mountain, there is no need to go to the summit, because the mountain is in your heart. Stilling the mind is like telling the ocean to have no waves. An empty mind is an ocean that does not grieve the coming and going of its waves.

 

Maybe I have misunderstood the whole notion of stopping and stilling. I dont know...

 

h

[rain]

I see what you mean Rain.

 

And its very silly of me to actually debate this at all. Its a proof that this is not written with an empty mind.=)

 

Point is, there is no living being that has a completely empty (whatever that means) mind. That is a brain dead mind. After considerable time and effort in and out of sitting meditation, and done correctly you may have larger "gaps" btw thoughts, i.e meaning that the discursive mind is less engaged, and not identified with. Thus, what I meant with a relaxed mind is just a mind detached from its own activity a mind recognizing that what experiences the mind is beyond the mind.

 

My own garden-variety experience of this is that there is a kind of shift. The feeling of the "gap" is not something that leads to bigger and bigger gaps. Its more that the gaps gives you a glimpse of someting that comes throug it. Suddenly you kind of feel you're allready there, no need to still anything, because what does the stilling is allready always the stillness and silence itself. There is no place to go, nothing to stop, nothing to let go of, noting to transform. It feels like when you see the mountain, there is no need to go to the summit, because the mountain is in your heart. Stilling the mind is like telling the ocean to have no waves. An empty mind is an ocean that does not grieve the coming and going of its waves.

 

Maybe I have misunderstood the whole notion of stopping and stilling. I dont know...

 

h

 

no..

brain dead. is a brain dead.

mind still. is just empty. :-)

your mind is not your brain.

 

you just said it yourself.

in the retention thread.

Edited March 5, 2010 by rain

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

The 'mind' is not 'empty'.. in 'stillness' there is no 'motion' to perceive.. you can't 'empty the mind'.. only 'still' it so there are no 'mental perceptions', just Clarity..

 

Be well..

[Guest sykkelpump]

A. If you are after power, power you will get.

 

B. If you are after enlightenment, enlightenment you will get.

 

 

A requires samatha meditation.

 

B requires vipassana meditation.

 

 

It is not a black and white thing, but to give you an idea it is more or less how it works.

 

I have experience with both and got siddhis from A but got bored with jedi tricks, lol; they lead to nowhere.

 

what siddhis did you get from concentration meditation?I remember you have mention this before

[SFJane]

I see what you mean Rain.

 

And its very silly of me to actually debate this at all. Its a proof that this is not written with an empty mind.=)

 

Point is, there is no living being that has a completely empty (whatever that means) mind. That is a brain dead mind. After considerable time and effort in and out of sitting meditation, and done correctly you may have larger "gaps" btw thoughts, i.e meaning that the discursive mind is less engaged, and not identified with. Thus, what I meant with a relaxed mind is just a mind detached from its own activity a mind recognizing that what experiences the mind is beyond the mind.

 

My own garden-variety experience of this is that there is a kind of shift. The feeling of the "gap" is not something that leads to bigger and bigger gaps. Its more that the gaps gives you a glimpse of someting that comes throug it. Suddenly you kind of feel you're allready there, no need to still anything, because what does the stilling is allready always the stillness and silence itself. There is no place to go, nothing to stop, nothing to let go of, noting to transform. It feels like when you see the mountain, there is no need to go to the summit, because the mountain is in your heart. Stilling the mind is like telling the ocean to have no waves. An empty mind is an ocean that does not grieve the coming and going of its waves.

 

Maybe I have misunderstood the whole notion of stopping and stilling. I dont know...

 

h

 

I was about disagree with you Hagar, then Rain answered with a simplified version of what I was going to say. Then this reply here clarified you and I have no argument.

 

Here is where I come from with the blocking thoughts issue.

 

Starting from the opposite of an empty mind. A full mind. This is where discursive thought comes into play. I think. I feel. I remember. I want. I need. I wonder. All those thoughts are discursive, projective thoughts.

 

Let us consider that a person can have this running dialogue inside themselves while they are doing the dishes or showering or whatever. Now, in addition to that dialogue you have sensory stimulation from the 5 primary senses. In addition to data input you have now a sense that your mind has pressure. As if your thoughts themselves have velocity and power.

 

Imagine that you are in an isolation room (the privacy of your mind). In this room we are going to pipe in sight, sound and smells. We are also going to turn on a radio to one station and play that station in the background. That is your inner dialogue with self. Your average person may or may not turn on a few more radios tuned to different stations.

 

Let's go one step further. How many of you have heard of mania? It means craziness. It is typically associated with manic depression. With mania you have an acceleration of mind. Instead of 1-3 radios going on in your head you have 10, 20, even 30. As this happens that sense of power in your mind becomes stronger. The volume of projective thoughts attains a level of subjective noise. Sensory stimulation can be vastly increased. Meaning that everything from taste, touch and smells can be engrossing.

 

At some point the thoughts in your head seem to be lightning that is just barely being contained. Now, if that goes on long enough you may acquire a specific set of cognitions that are loosely called 'thought broadcasting delusion'. Your mind can become convinced that it's thoughts are leaking out and being transmitted to other people's minds. Conversely, you also seem to think that you are picking up other people's thoughts uncontrollably.

 

At this point you are as far away from a calm, still or empty mind as you are ever going to get. You've crossed the line from being hyper and intense into subtle psychosis. You are not completely in touch with reality anymore. You feel experientially like your mind occupies ten dimensions. That may sound neat and all but for some people it can cripple their ability to make decisions or it may make you extremely impulsive. It can make you extremely grandiose ie, Lex Luthor is a good example of a thoroughly grandiose guy in love with his own genius. That's mania.

 

If you ever talk to a psychiatrist about having thoughts like that, you will be given a prescription for brain damaging drugs called 'antipsychotics'. They shrink your frontal lobe and interfere with your neurons and can quite literally disrupt that sense of mental electricity and leave you mentally fogged and sedated very quickly. They used to call it a chemical lobotomy. It can change the underlying problem by reducing bio-electrical firing in your frontal lobes. Those drugs don't teach you anything about how your mind works or how to fix it.

 

Let's say you get into meditation. It is possible to get some mental stillness through sheer force of will. In terms of deliberately trying to block your thoughts. What you are really doing is trying to contain a fusion reactor. Pressure is going to build. That pressure is what leads to what people call siddhis but I personally think most siddhis are delusion.

 

You may become adept at blocking your thoughts. At some point I was able to hold mania in complete stasis for hours. Kind of like a stasis field from science fiction. However, whenever I was not holding my mind in stasis my thoughts would charge back up again. They would get some speed. One radio would get turned on. Then another. Then 20 all at once again. I was a million miles away from stillness within minutes of stopping my meditation sit.

 

That is not real meditation. It does build up your Will and concentration to practice that. There are many ways to do that though. Microcosmic Orbit is a good one. It's still not meditation. It's artificial control.

 

To meditate you want your thoughts to arrive at stillness naturally. From a truly technical scientific POV, it's almost impossible to stop all brain activity and if you did you would be dead. You can learn to relax inside yourself to such a degree that your mind becomes quiet all by itself. If you work at this relaxation of the mind, being present and so on, those discursive (I call them projective) thoughts will slow down, decrease in felt sense of power and intensity. Those radio stations get turned off one by one. The inner agitation that caused all those radio stations to turn on inside you changes. That's the beginning of alchemy. You change your mind from being this 'monkey' to being a spider in a web.

 

When that happens, you can abide and there will be no projective thoughts. If you have enough sessions like that, that stillness hits some kind of emergence or critical mass and stillness becomes a part of you. Having an empty mind becomes vastly easier.

 

If you practice like that long enough then your mind will actually change your brain. It will change the various balance of neurotransmitters and the firing of your axons and neurons. Your prefrontal cortex will grow incredibly intricate connections into the surrounding brain structures. Like the amygdala for example, which sends all sort of impulses into your conscious mind as well as storing emotional conditioning. If you practice like that long enough, manic episodes quietly go away. Your brain forgets how to be manic. It evolves new, better controls over those thoughts and feelings.

 

Other thoughts.

 

When it comes to witnessing the play of thoughts. You do not space out like watching TV. Nor do you get involved with your thoughts. Don't give energy to them or become immersed in them or try to block them out. Witnessing means just that. Witness.

 

When it comes to thought broadcasting delusion, it's easy to think that mania has made you special and that you can learn to control your telepathy like Professor X. Before you get too excited about being a mutant do some reality testing to be sure you are really hearing other people's thoughts and that you are really projecting your thoughts into others. Set experiments for yourself. If you are deadly honest with yourself and you are as objective as you can possibly be with such a subjective phenomena, you will realize that your mind is bullshitting you. If you can do that and you keep at the stillness meditation you will overcome those kinds of delusions.

Edited March 5, 2010 by SFJane

[forestofclarity]

I would caution everyone to use due care with meditation. Blocking your thoughts may lead to a stiffening and narrowing of the mind, especially if done with any sort of force. This will close off certain avenues of spiritual practice, in particular the so-called "higher" ones. Others have pointed out a more natural way to still the mind which does not have this side effect. Yet even a still mind must eventually pass away.

 

Everything that we do builds a habit.

[Guest sykkelpump]

Greetings..

 

If you are interested, i offer this very natural method of 'stilling the mind', it's simple, effective, and reliable..

 

Get into a favored meditation posture, it makes no difference which it is.. relax a bit and just notice the thought patterns.. then, 'point' the index fingers, point gently until you feel slight tension on the inside surface of the index fingers.. i can't say 'notice the thought patterns, now', i think you will be surprised, but.. if you do this, please share your experiences with me.. this is a physical link to the spiritual experience, and only a surface indication of the potential..

 

Be well..

Thanks

strange,something actually happend.I need to try it some moore,but I was a little suprised.could it be that I automatically went into meditation modus because of much practice.i dont know,i will try it for some days and see.and then give you some feedback.

can somebody else try this simple method.Am I crazy or does it work?

Edited March 6, 2010 by sykkelpump