Beware of evil gurus!

[Mandrake]

Sai baba, TM's maharishi, and so many other gurus out there that deceive people. I saw a poster where I live about the latest "miracle spirituality" - sahaja yoga.

 

Well, take a read and peak behind the scenes:

 

http://www.sahaja-yoga.org/

 

Sad that people are so gullible. Just about anything goes to take the attention away from one's pain, like a drug.

 

M

[neimad]

at the risk of annoyed taobums.... i'm gonna add mantak chia to that list.

 

haha a lot of you know i have personal grievances against that guy!

[thelerner]

Come on you may think Chia is bad, but he doesn't belong on a 'bad guru' list. Not even close. You can disagree w/ his approach, say he's over priced, poor english, even guilty of plagiarism. But ..

 

He has always consistently told people to use their own common sense and to be there own guru's. I don't think he's ever been guilty of the out rages and cult like behavior like the above yoga. I don't think he plays the master card and/or guru card very often.

 

Michael

 

Ofcourse I've only taken one course w/ him, beginners. From his writings and books, I don't think he's a headcase. I could be wrong.

[neimad]

haha i think he is a head case.....

 

beneath his calm exterior i think he is seething with insanity.

 

but then again we are all insane for even believing in this illusion... no?

 

but yeah as far as we are aware he aint guilty of some of the outrages as other supposed guru's.

 

personally though, i think that anyone who tacks 'guru' or 'master' before their name instantly demands wariness.

 

we are ALL masters and guru's!

[Yoda]

just having a guru is problematic. Goes against the Tao.

[neimad]

just having a guru is problematic. Goes against the Tao.

exactly!

[Jeremiah]

i went thru the TM system in the late 80's and eventually got pretty disallusioned with it. i was a teenager, yeaning for that inner conncetion that had got lost in a haze of drugs. there were several things that happened that crushed my trust in the system but it was good at the time and i had some amazing experinces. it certainly broke of the paradiem that i was stuck in opening the door for something new. but i mean i still have some of those pictures you know where all the guys are flying & man who does not wanna fly! oh gee you mean that flying is really just hopping painfully on your butt instead.....

 

a couple years later when i found Mantak Chia via one of Juan Li's drawings i was like "thank god, this is it". but then i discovered Chia was impossible to learn from and his methods were way to heady and manipulative for me. quite a dissapointment. but i believed and still do believe in his core teachings. he's far from evil though i don't get the impression that he is a guru type other than the people that want to make him that and that is thier own problem.

 

pretty typical to put someone on a pedestal then decide that they can't live up to the admiration....

 

we do the same thing with doctors. it's doctor this doctor that....doctor so and so said....

 

qi :-)

[Mandrake]

One thing that has probably striked several of us, is that many of these New Age people are the most miserable you can meet. Often you can, by a quick glance, even when they're smiling, see all that sorrow and junk they are carrying around with. It's really sad.

 

What annoys me is that they don't go to a psychotherapist first. Spiritual practices aren't a quick fix - are you going to build them on top of insanity? Mental un-health?

I believe that you need a sound grounding before you embark on deeper esoteric journeys, otherwise you just won't have the clarity needed.

 

There is also the fact that people with supernatural accomplishments could be manipulating people. So again, it boils down to your own practice. If people only get "improvements" (read experiences) while around their guru type - beware!

[Yoda]

psychotherapists, doctors, insane family members, weird work relations... if you don't get screwed over by a guru yet you have screwy energy, somebody else will pick up the slack. Law of Attraction and all.

[Mandrake]

Wow, really nice wording - well put Yoda!

Maybe, deep deep inside, some people want to be screwed, but they refuse to admit it to them selves.

[Yoda]

Feeling negative jams the otherwise groovy love vibe from delivering a fun ride.

 

My favorite story of bad things happening to me is when a friend of mine had a friend whose lung had collapsed spontaneously. That freaked out my friend and then a few months later his lung collapsed spontaneously. He told me the story and then I got freaked out by it and my lung collapsed spontaneously a few months later. When I was in the hospital wondering 'why me?' I picked up a Readers Digest and opened it at random to a Norman V. Peale quoting the Hebrew scriptures: "that which you fear the most shall come to pass."

 

Very enlightening moment.

[Jeremiah]

how true yoda.

 

whatever you resonate with the stongest will come to pass. if you resonate strongly with a fear, that is what will come into your life, if you resonate with something really good, that is what will come to pass. this maybe one of the few absolutes i've noticed so far in life....

 

qi :-)

[Yoda]

The moral of the story is to feel groovy, loving, fearless, etc as much as possible... still working on that one!

[thelerner]

Feelin groovie. I think it is very important to be at least optimistic, hopefully happy when doing meditation and / or energy work. Not just because its 'nice', but because unhappy causes stuck energy. It can concentrate negativity and promote paranoia.

 

You get your instructors lessons verbal and non verbals. If they are depressed, prejudice, paranoid, egotistical, apokoliptic, that is going to rub off on you.

 

Michael

[neimad]

we are all insane anyways for even believing this totally absurd illusion to be real, for believing we are limited to this body.

 

let it be, let it be, let it be, love is the answer, let it be.

 

fear feeds the illusion, love transcends it.

 

re: mantak chia's body of work.

something i have been realising is this whole qi gong and energy work stuff..... a particular structure has been given to something that doesn't necessarily need a structure. i mean why are there so many forms of qi gong out there? because each individual 'master' has invented their own..... and what gives them the ability to invent their own over us? nothing really..... it's just energy. literally you can play with it. i just do intuitive energy practices whenever i do them now, and only sometimes. i try not to get too stuck in the energy part of it because that is only a small portion. meditation, and i have realised a meditation that cultivates presence is the really important bit.

 

anyways lets use the analogy of the CST system. you practice the basics, clean the slate, etc.... once you reach a certain point, that is you have made a safety net for your practice to expand, you then intuitively flow and create your own as you go.

thats how it all works!

there is no need to get caught feeling someone else needs to teach you, we are all masterful beings already.

 

Edited February 25, 2006 by neimad

[freeform]

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Edited October 23, 2019 by freeform

[Leo]

I have, all my life, been extremely lucky with teachers. I dunno why...if I want to learn something I call a random number out of the yellow pages or whatever, and later find out I've got some kind of mucky-muck, etc.

 

When I decided I wanted to practice western esotericism in my twenties, it was no exception. The teacher I ended up with turned out to be sort of a leader behind the scenes. She eschewed fame, but was the person that all of the big name authors and teachers came to for advice. It had a HUGE impact on my life, and I got to run in some pretty heady circles and meet some people I would not have otherwise had the chance to meet. No one was ever coerced to stay...on the contrary. We didn't have to follow the teacher's advice in most cases, but in some cases she would insist. In those rare cases, it was invariably a change the person was resistant to, but was something that ended up helping them immensely. Everyone was expected to continually increase their personal wealth and ability in life. Poverty was considered a vice. Classes were offered for a fixed and modest fee, and no donations were ever excepted. She practiced what she preached, and I watched her become quite wealthy in her business dealings.

 

When first starting out, EVERYONE, without exception, had to go to therapy. It didn't matter what kind, or school of thought but it had to be something. The teacher was quite knowledgeable about different types of therapy and would suggest some from time to time, but the decision was left up to the student. If she thought a student needed to go back, she would let them know. This was one of the things she insisted on. Anyone who has been around Western Esotericism for any length of time knows that the greatest danger is insanity, and I've seen some pretty spectacular examples. By the way, she also practiced what she preached here also - she also spent time with various therapists.

 

I believe I benefited greatly from this experience, and believe anyone on the path should try out SOME type of therapy at some point, and learn to recognize when it appropriate to seek it out during their journey.

[Emelgee]

re: mantak chia's body of work.

something i have been realising is this whole qi gong and energy work stuff..... a particular structure has been given to something that doesn't necessarily need a structure. i mean why are there so many forms of qi gong out there? because each individual 'master' has invented their own..... and what gives them the ability to invent their own over us? nothing really..... it's just energy. literally you can play with it. i just do intuitive energy practices whenever i do them now, and only sometimes. i try not to get too stuck in the energy part of it because that is only a small portion. meditation, and i have realised a meditation that cultivates presence is the really important bit.

 

----

 

Hey N,

 

At the rist of incurring wrath...

 

Firstly, what you say above can relate to any "guru" and not specifically to Chia and, more importantly, you need to let the Chia aggro go!

 

I get that you aren't keen on him or his practices. It's cool, I can respect your point - but if you hold on to it, it will affect you negatively. That would really suck...

 

Emelgee

[neimad]

yeah certainly i meant it about any 'guru's body of work.

 

and yeah i know.... i was holding onto chia aggro for quite a while after i met him and was negatively affected by him.

 

i have let that go, i just brought it up because of this guru thread.

 

[Trunk]

Sai baba, TM's maharishi, and so many other gurus out there that deceive people. I saw a poster where I live about the latest "miracle spirituality" - sahaja yoga.

So, which guru/s have you studied with?

[Mandrake]

[thelerner]

Very often an individual who is unbalanced will study esoteric arts and end up very unbalanced.

 

Mental Health. Its not neccesarrily what you believe in or do. Its if you can live in harmony w/ the society around you.

 

Meditating w/ and hugging trees doesn't mean you're mentally ill. But if trees are lunging toward you, giving you hugs and ripping off your clothes then you probably do have mental problems and perhaps some physical ones.

 

Michael

[Yoda]

yeah, but if the tree is seriously hot, then it all evens out.