Two questions for veteran practitioners

[hajimesaito]

I am a beginner into Taoism and would like to discipline myself (both body and mind). I would be glad if the experts could help me with these two questions that I have:-

 

 

1. I have become a lazy sleeper and find it extremely difficult to wake up early in the morning. Even the alarm doesn't help because I sleep again after switching it off in the morning, and this time for longer! What exercises should I do to be able to sleep less than 8 hours? (I sleep around 9 - 10 hours). And if I have ended up sleeping for long, then how should I negate the consequences of this oversleeping in my body? I aim to reduce my sleeping hours to around 4 hrs. My Sifu used to sleep only 3 hours everyday and was very fit and healthy. But unfortunately he refused to teach me further only because of this laziness and the habit of procrastination that I had .

 

 

2. Next I want to ask how should I erase bad memory. I mean those useless thoughts and pre-conceived notions. For example, I had seen all kinds of porn when I was younger, but now I want to forget all that and erase all the pre-conceived notions about sex developed as a result of conditioning from those videos. The same applies for any other bad thoughts too. I have heard that meditation alone will help me calm down my mind while at the same time reducing the influence of all the bad thoughts and notions in the mind, making it purer and sharper. From my own understanding of Taoism, we all need to go back to our pre-natal state of innocence to be able to live to the fullest. Even zen masters say that real wisdom lies not in accumulating knowledge but throwing away all that we have learned.

[Mal]

[Athanor]

I am a beginner into Taoism and would like to discipline myself (both body and mind). I would be glad if the experts could help me with these two questions that I have:-

 

 

1. I have become a lazy sleeper and find it extremely difficult to wake up early in the morning. Even the alarm doesn't help because I sleep again after switching it off in the morning, and this time for longer! What exercises should I do to be able to sleep less than 8 hours? (I sleep around 9 - 10 hours). And if I have ended up sleeping for long, then how should I negate the consequences of this oversleeping in my body? I aim to reduce my sleeping hours to around 4 hrs. My Sifu used to sleep only 3 hours everyday and was very fit and healthy. But unfortunately he refused to teach me further only because of this laziness and the habit of procrastination that I had .

 

 

2. Next I want to ask how should I erase bad memory. I mean those useless thoughts and pre-conceived notions. For example, I had seen all kinds of porn when I was younger, but now I want to forget all that and erase all the pre-conceived notions about sex developed as a result of conditioning from those videos. The same applies for any other bad thoughts too. I have heard that meditation alone will help me calm down my mind while at the same time reducing the influence of all the bad thoughts and notions in the mind, making it purer and sharper. From my own understanding of Taoism, we all need to go back to our pre-natal state of innocence to be able to live to the fullest. Even zen masters say that real wisdom lies not in accumulating knowledge but throwing away all that we have learned.

#1

The required length of sleep for the body is based on the needs of the body. If your body needs more than 8 hours sleep then the best you can do is to give it the time. The main cause of the needed length of sleep is the amount of used energy during the day. The more energy you use, the longer time you need to restore the lost energy. Used energy doesn't only mean energy which you use for physical education or digestion; the energy you use to deal with stress also goes to this. So basically 3 things which can reduce the length of sleep are eating light food (less energy for digestion), avoiding physical exhaustion, and avoiding stress. However, a bacterium infection or many other kinds of diseases also need energy to be cured, and there are many other reasons for energy loss altogether. The main principle is that the more balanced and healthy your life becomes, the less sleep you will need. This is why all the great masters and enlightened people sleep very few.

You don't need a zen clock, although it's pretty - all kinds of alarm clocks have snooze function, use that.

#2

Bad thoughts about your past deeds are not results, they're side-effects. They're not the results of the deed, they're the side-effects of your mental attitude. They can't be changed with a direct approach, only with an approach towards your whole mind. The person you will become, or the personality you will develop, is the average of all your thoughts, speeches, and actions. Any kind of denial (like denying porn) or desire (like desiring better thoughts) will be added to this mass of which the average will be you. But the effect of such denials or desires is rarely what you expect. When you deny something, you usually can't avoid that thing, you will not get rid of it, but you will be filled with anger and hatred because of the denial. What you resist, persists - as the proverb goes.

Forgetting your past isn't to be understood literally. It's not like cutting out a piece of your brain. It's more like not to bother yourself with the past anymore - and as you don't care about something, you won't think about it, and slowly you will forget it. But as long as you fight against it, you won't forget it. You just keep on going "I hate this thought, I hate that my thoughts make me do that" - and you'll never change. The basic principle is to focus on the present, without thinking about the relation between the present and the past, or the present and the future; without judging the present; and not letting your thoughts wander to the past or the future. If you keep this mental attitude, everything else will change. Because so even if you watch porn with this attitude, tomorrow you won't bother yourself with it, because tomorrow will be a different present, and today's porn will be past.

 

Zen masters also say that Zen is in shitting. It means that you can find it in even the most vulgar and disgusting things in your everyday life. There is no reason to deny anything, for everything can be Zen. Or the Tao.

[markern]

Yoga nidra takes your body into deep CONCIOUS sleep. It takes you all the way to samadhi if you practice it for long enough. It works better as a sleep replacement than regular meditation. WHen I do it I can wake up quite tired and needing more sleep, then do yoga nidra and be perfectly awake. It also teaches you how to sleep and how to fall asleep. Doing it will over time maximaize the quality of your sleep so you will need less of it and it will minimize the time needed to fall a sleep so you will save time there also. COmbined witht the fact that you can sleep a little bit less than you would othervise need to if you do yoga nidra that same morning as you wake too early the combined time savings is big. It will take some time to get there though. Needs to be done everyday for the most part.

 

Swami satyananda and swami rama have good yoga nidra cds

 

Michael Lomax who posts as Ya Mu on this board teaches a lying down qigong that reduces need for sleep time A LOT. If you take his stilness movement qigong workshop he can teach it to you.

Edited March 12, 2010 by markern

[markern]

[Athanor]

Nice! i think I will get one of those. I use my cell phones alarm and everyday I want to through it into the wall as the sound is horrible. I think Zen bells want make me as anoyed. They might make me feel quite good I think.

You know you can download sound files from the net - many for free -, and you can copy them to your phone as an alarm sound. I do that.

Edited March 12, 2010 by Athanor

[Mal]

You don't need a zen clock, although it's pretty - all kinds of alarm clocks have snooze function, use that.

 

Very true. I use to use a clock radio with soft wake up function and you could probably get a similar effect with a phone application these days. Or just use more willpower than I had and get out of bed to turn the alarm off

 

But I do tend to go on about zen clocks as waking up to a nice sound made it worth the rather substantial cost. The "real" sound of the bell has a very beautiful tone (the recording on the site is not quite as nice as the real thing but will give you an idea of how long it resonates for) I find most alarm clocks have really harsh alarms that you want to turn off or snooze asap.

 

For me hitting snooze just taught me the habit of staying in bed for as long as I possible could. I found that habit even more difficult to break when trying to get up early to exercise, only takes a second to hit snooze, too easy. A bell naturally chiming more often over a 10 min period gives me time to come to terms with waking up and my partner finds the chime not too intrusive and can sleep through quite a few without them waking her.

[markern]

You know you can download sound files from the net - many for free -, and you can copy them to your phone as an alarm sound. I do that.

 

Thanks. But my ceel phone is not as pretty as Mal`s clock and I want that too

[Athanor]

Thanks. But my ceel phone is not as pretty as Mal`s clock and I want that too

Yes, it's pretty

However, with this kind of attachment you stand against the very nature of your practice.

The cause of the result of gongfu is gongfu itself, and nothing else.

Edited March 12, 2010 by Athanor

[RyanO]

Yes, it's pretty

However, with this kind of attachment you stand against the very nature of your practice.

The cause of the result of gongfu is gongfu itself, and nothing else.

 

Attachment? Taking it a little far, dontcha think? It's just a pretty clock!

 

I have trouble waking up myself, or to reframe that positively, I love sleep! Also, I loooove lucid dreams and sleeping in makes those easier.

 

I was thinking about getting one of those clocks but some of the reviews on Amazon mentioned they bust easily. Any problems with yours Mal?

[Athanor]

Attachment? Taking it a little far, dontcha think? It's just a pretty clock!

What I meant to say was that I can't wake up in the morning because my clock isn't pretty enough is not a reason, it's rather an excuse. A bad one. And meaning this excuse seriously, regardless of whether you formulate it with these words or not, is an attachment. This is why I wrote that last 2 lines in comment #3.

 

Of course we can say I took it a bit too far. Yet, these things are usually causing problems in our lives because we think they don't mean anything, but they do. It's all about how you think. If you think with excuses then you will achieve the result of your excuses and you won't achieve your goals.

[RyanO]

What I meant to say was that I can't wake up in the morning because my clock isn't pretty enough is not a reason, it's rather an excuse. A bad one. And meaning this excuse seriously, regardless of whether you formulate it with these words or not, is an attachment. This is why I wrote that last 2 lines in comment #3.

 

Of course we can say I took it a bit too far. Yet, these things are usually causing problems in our lives because we think they don't mean anything, but they do. It's all about how you think. If you think with excuses then you will achieve the result of your excuses and you won't achieve your goals.

 

Yeah I understand your point. I just don't think anyone in this thread has demonstrated that serious of an attachment to the type of clock one uses. Obviously it's not a necessity, but it might help.

[Athanor]

Yeah I understand your point. I just don't think anyone in this thread has demonstrated that serious of an attachment to the type of clock one uses. Obviously it's not a necessity, but it might help.

No one else has demonstrated the problem presented in the initial topic either. Maybe there's a relation. Maybe there isn't.

[Mal]

[3bob]

"...we all need to go back to our pre-natal state of innocence to be able to live to the fullest. Even zen masters say that real wisdom lies not in accumulating knowledge but throwing away all that we have learned"

 

Well I'd say it's not a throwing away per-se, it's sometimes likened to a gate that only the Tao can cross through, or pass through back to itself - thus the knowledges existing on this side of such a gate (and that do have purposes on this side) can not pass through the Tao gate (so to speak) and thus have to be set down for passage to be possible; yet it takes a will to pick up those knowledges which are related to ones approach to this gate in the first place and then also a will to willingly set them down and proceed, something which innocence alone is not wise enough or strong enough to do. (that was not the best use of such words, only a small attempt by a non-veteran)

 

Also, "to be or not to be" are not options for the Tao.

 

Om

Edited March 13, 2010 by 3bob