Karma and Fate

[Athanor]

Greetings..

 

Hi Athanor: Suppose you ared hiding but are very focused on a 'surprise attack'.. your awareness and your 'attention' are clearly on the victim, but.. your 'intention'/Qi/action is concealed.. when the victim is 'in range' your 'intention'/ Qi/action is revealed.. this is a simple example, but very appropriate..

 

Be well..

Let's say my intention is to hit the victim on his head. Where will my intention lead the qi? Into my arm? Into my fist? Into his head?

Thanks for your patience, by the way, I appreciate it

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

Hi Athanor: That's a tricky question, it depends on your understanding and skill.. as an example: beginners at push-hands will isolate so many elements of their training into a 'series' of connected 'intentions': feet, legs, waist, spine, shoulders, arms, hands, etc.. beautifully observed like a 'wave' flowing from the ground through the body and exploding into the target.. or, a more advanced player: is already at the 'target' before any 'intent' is expressed.. the advanced player simply listens, and is softly, quietly "at the door when it opens" ('door'/opportunity).. while the 'wave' is beautiful AND powerful, it is trying 'to get to the door before it closes'.. it is announcing its 'intention' in plenty of "time for the door to close".. the more advanced player has no 'intention' prior to the opportunity revealing itself.. and, the intention was manifested years prior, in the dedication and practice that develops such Clarity, such fine 'listening' skills, such patience to wait for the opportunity, and.. the ability to 'change' while being so patient..

 

How do i 'lead the Qi' to my hand?.. i 'intend' for my hand to 'do' something.. in practice, i intend it to express Qi.. in 'combat', i intend my hand feel the 'opportunity'.. discipline and training already know how to take advantage of the opportunity.. the 'flow' is appears so because you are already there, as thew 'door opens', you are already inside, maximum effect/minimum effort.. often, it is simply misunderstood as 'mystical'..

 

Be well..

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

Hi Athanor: I am so sorry.. i rambled and didn't answer your question.. 'his head', if you understand this.. but, not untill there is no other option for 'him'.. do not reveal your intention untill the 'door is open'.. the Qi will simply 'be there' (it's already there, you simply animate it with your 'intention')..

 

Be well..

[ralis]

There is no denying that the universe operates causally. However, the authoritarian doctrine of karma does not provide real answers to life's problems. Blaming the process of karma is a do nothing excuse! If that is not the case, then why is India and other countries that take it so seriously, have so many problems! Do authoritarian followers of karma in these countries even attempt to improve their lives?

 

Doctrines such as karma are always in the context of the higher cause. Therefor, one must submit to the process of the higher cause so as to be purified (more pain and anguish) and reach higher realms of blissful existence.

 

 

ralis

[Lucky7Strikes]

There is no denying that the universe operates causally. However, the authoritarian doctrine of karma does not provide real answers to life's problems. Blaming the process of karma is a do nothing excuse! If that is not the case, then why is India and other countries that take it so seriously, have so many problems! Do authoritarian followers of karma in these countries even attempt to improve their lives?

 

Doctrines such as karma are always in the context of the higher cause. Therefor, one must submit to the process of the higher cause so as to be purified (more pain and anguish) and reach higher realms of blissful existence.

 

 

ralis

 

 

 

 

There is no such thing as a "cause."

Edited March 16, 2010 by Lucky7Strikes

[ralis]

 

 

 

There is no such thing as a "cause."

 

Prove it! Also if there are no causes, then you don't exist! :lol:

 

Trite remarks at best!

 

ralis

Edited March 16, 2010 by ralis

[Lucky7Strikes]

you don't exist! :lol:

 

You don't. Do you?

 

Where are you?

Edited March 16, 2010 by Lucky7Strikes

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

Karma is simply a particular culture's interpretation of another culture's concept of 'consequences'.. different interpretations of the same process..

 

Karma, fate, cause, existence, etc... 'stories' the mind tells itself to understand its incomplete perspective of its own existence.. 'Still the Mind', suspend the thought processes, the judging, labeling, remembering and predicting.. it this stillness, there is Clarity of your perspective, of the experiences unfolding in the processes of Life.. What do you 'observe in Stillness', without the preconceptions?

 

Be well..

[Athanor]

Greetings..

 

Hi Athanor: I am so sorry.. i rambled and didn't answer your question.. 'his head', if you understand this.. but, not untill there is no other option for 'him'.. do not reveal your intention untill the 'door is open'.. the Qi will simply 'be there' (it's already there, you simply animate it with your 'intention')..

 

Be well..

I'm terribly sorry but I don't understand your answer. I don't know what you mean by "open door". And I don't understand another thing. If qi is lead into his head, then when someone breaks a brick then does he lead qi into the brick? I thought he leads it into his hand to protect it, to make it harder and be able to express a greater force.

 

Let's try another thing if you still have your patience

 

and please tell me how to do it. I already tried it but I can't do it purposely, but I know that it can be done without fake tricks. I'd really like to understand what kind of awareness and intention I would need to make my qi spin the paper. This would give a general insight into the whole system of qi-behavior.

[Athanor]

There is no denying that the universe operates causally. However, the authoritarian doctrine of karma does not provide real answers to life's problems. Blaming the process of karma is a do nothing excuse! If that is not the case, then why is India and other countries that take it so seriously, have so many problems! Do authoritarian followers of karma in these countries even attempt to improve their lives?

 

Doctrines such as karma are always in the context of the higher cause. Therefor, one must submit to the process of the higher cause so as to be purified (more pain and anguish) and reach higher realms of blissful existence.

 

 

ralis

I believe that the countries which take karma seriously don't have problems because of their belief in karma, much more because of their belief in life itself.

You see, Buddhism and religions with enlightenment concept, do not serve civilization. These are the religions of the beggars. If you strive for enlightenment, then your life cannot serve civilization, technological development, modern health care or food logistics. On the most socialized level, it can only serve you and your neighbors.

Although the Dalai Lama is also frequently talking about helping each others, we may not forget that religions live from the work of mundane people. People donate to churches and they can only donate because they made some work and they got some money for it. While monks do mandalas from sand and when they're finished after a long time, they simply sweep it away to illustrate transitoriness. Great.

 

If you look at the whole teaching of Buddha and the conditions of enlightenment, you'll find that if you take them seriously, you will need to rely on others' help in the matter of food, shelter, and such.

 

I am sure that many western people have this perception about far-east religions.

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

Look at this video and please tell me how to do it.

I can't 'tell you how to do it', i can describe my understanding of the process that would allow something like this to occur, though.. and, please exercise healthy skepticism regarding demonstrations like the video..

 

ALL of everything is simply energy vibrating at different frequencies, some frequencies manifest form, shape, and mass, but.. it's all just energy behaving in a Universe of 'ways'.. within the energy manifested as 'you', you can 'intend' your hand to move, and it moves.. understanding that it's ALL interconnected manifestations of energy, it's a small 'leap of faith' to 'intend' beyond the perceived limitations of our physical image..

 

when someone breaks a brick then does he lead qi into the brick? I thought he leads it into his hand to protect it, to make it harder and be able to express a greater force.

Leading Qi to change the frequency of the brick's 'brickness', is an internal understanding.. making the hand 'harder', is an 'external understanding.. i prefer the internal understanding, but i practice both..

 

Be well..

[Athanor]

Greetings..

 

 

I can't 'tell you how to do it', i can describe my understanding of the process that would allow something like this to occur, though.. and, please exercise healthy skepticism regarding demonstrations like the video..

 

ALL of everything is simply energy vibrating at different frequencies, some frequencies manifest form, shape, and mass, but.. it's all just energy behaving in a Universe of 'ways'.. within the energy manifested as 'you', you can 'intend' your hand to move, and it moves.. understanding that it's ALL interconnected manifestations of energy, it's a small 'leap of faith' to 'intend' beyond the perceived limitations of our physical image..

 

 

Leading Qi to change the frequency of the brick's 'brickness', is an internal understanding.. making the hand 'harder', is an 'external understanding.. i prefer the internal understanding, but i practice both..

 

Be well..

It is very disturbing that (I think) I understand the concept of it but I still can't apply it, and I don't know why.

Do you think taiji and such practices would lead to the application? Or it's also just a possibility and maybe they won't...

 

Thank you for your answers.

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

It is very disturbing that (I think) I understand the concept of it but I still can't apply it, and I don't know why.

Do you think taiji and such practices would lead to the application? Or it's also just a possibility and maybe they won't...

Taiji, QiGong, Bull-Riding, cooking, etc... might, or might not help.. Taiji, has been helpful for 'me'.. each of the items i've mentioned has helped 'me'.. yep, i tried Bull-Riding, and it REALLY helped me understand just how much it pisses-off the Bull.. regardless, in each case, it was the intention that made the difference.. study the nuances and relationships of Clarity and Intention, i really wish you well..

 

Be well..

[Athanor]

study the nuances and relationships of Clarity and Intention, i really wish you well..

What do you mean by clarity?

[ralis]

 

 

 

There is no such thing as a "cause."

 

You are positing untenable arguments.

 

ralis

[ralis]

Fate is your past Karmic residue.

 

But which reality will you choose?

 

Choose not to choose? Choosing is what creates Karma. You see...

 

Destiny is selflessness in action!

 

(Form isn't empty. Form is emptiness!)

 

Let the tide in! I will let the guests come and go. The guests come and go. Come and go. Shhhhhh....

 

Haha! Good night everyone! .

 

 

This is "New Age" rhetorical nonsense. If I followed your advice, I would sit on the street corner and not move!

 

ralis

[Lucky7Strikes]

This is "New Age" rhetorical nonsense. If I followed your advice, I would sit on the street corner and not move!

 

ralis

 

Yup.

 

It's better than playing poker.

[ralis]

Yup.

 

It's better than playing poker.

 

Now you are making moral judgments, based on? Will I suffer some bad karma for eons for playing poker? Does the Buddha forbid poker playing? For every dollar I win in this lifetime, I have to lose it next lifetime? :lol:

 

I am sitting at my computer playing the markets. Does the Buddha forbid playing the markets and make money?

 

Go get a life!! If you can!!

 

ralis

Edited March 16, 2010 by ralis

[Lucky7Strikes]

Now you are making moral judgments, based on? Will I suffer some bad karma for eons for playing poker? Does the Buddha forbid poker playing? For every dollar I win in this lifetime, I have to lose it next lifetime? :lol:

 

I am sitting at my computer playing the markets. Does the Buddha forbid playing the markets and make money?

 

Go get a life!! If you can!!

 

ralis

 

Go get a life!! If you can!!

[nac]

Determinism is considered a pernicious view in Buddhism, so karma is a kind of non-deterministic causality, which works like this: At each moment, the holistic web of interdependent conditions apprehend certain possible outcomes with certain levels of likelihood, but the actual results are never causally determined. Therefore, all phenomena have some degree of freedom to act independently despite being constrained by past conditions. As different choices build upon each other and result in unique future conditions, which in turn constrain future outcomes, fate or destiny doesn't exist.

[Athanor]

Determinism is considered a pernicious view in Buddhism, so karma is a kind of non-deterministic causality, which works like this: At each moment, the holistic web of interdependent conditions apprehend certain possible outcomes with certain levels of likelihood, but the actual results are never causally determined. Therefore, all phenomena have some degree of freedom to act independently despite being constrained by past conditions. As different choices build upon each other and result in unique future conditions, which in turn constrain future outcomes, fate or destiny doesn't exist.

This sounds like the uncertainty principle.

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

Determinism is considered a pernicious view in Buddhism, so karma is a kind of non-deterministic causality, which works like this: At each moment, the holistic web of interdependent conditions apprehend certain possible outcomes with certain levels of likelihood, but the actual results are never causally determined. Therefore, all phenomena have some degree of freedom to act independently despite being constrained by past conditions. As different choices build upon each other and result in unique future conditions, which in turn constrain future outcomes, fate or destiny doesn't exist.

WOW!!.. i'm not even gonna try.. that much 'thinking' would simply hurt..

 

Hi Nac: If you could just suspend your thought processes for just a couple of minutes, i'm willing to wager that the stuff you describe in that quote will just keep on happening.. and, if you choose, think about the process completely differently, like maybe 'Kwan Yin' is the Cosmic Puppet-Master, and.. i'll wager the stuff just keeps happening.. My point is, regardless of the story you tell yourself about what's happening, it's still happening.. even without the stories..

 

Be well..

[nac]

This sounds like the uncertainty principle.

Not literally the uncertainty principle, but I guess I could cite examples of quantum uncertainty to support this thesis. In fact, Young's double-slit experiment might serve as a perfect illustration. We can predict that the pattern of dots must resolve themselves into vertical bands on the screen, but the nature of reality itself makes it impossible to foretell their exact pattern. This is especially apparent in low density regions where the dots don't run into and merge with each other. This necessarily acausal outcome is the manifestation of an inalienable degree of freedom present in the setup.

Edited March 17, 2010 by nac

[nac]

Hi Nac: If you could just suspend your thought processes for just a couple of minutes, i'm willing to wager that the stuff you describe in that quote will just keep on happening.. and, if you choose, think about the process completely differently, like maybe 'Kwan Yin' is the Cosmic Puppet-Master, and.. i'll wager the stuff just keeps happening.. My point is, regardless of the story you tell yourself about what's happening, it's still happening.. even without the stories..

 

Be well..

Kwan Yin? Puppet-master? :? Anyway, I perfectly agree with what you said. The emergence keeps emerging moment by moment whether we choose to be aware of it or not. _/\_

 

PS. On the other hand, consider the possibility that choosing to be aware of what's happening now can directly affect what occurs in the future. Happening will go on uninterrupted either way until time itself finally grounds to a halt after the heat death, I'll grant you that.

Edited March 17, 2010 by nac

[Athanor]

Not literally the uncertainty principle, but I guess I could cite examples of quantum uncertainty to support this thesis. In fact, Young's double-slit experiment might serve as a perfect illustration. We can predict that the pattern of dots must resolve themselves into vertical bands on the screen, but the nature of reality itself makes it impossible to foretell their exact pattern in low density regions where the dots don't run into and merge with each other. This necessarily acausal outcome manifests an inalienable degree of freedom in this setup.

I just don't understand how this relates to karma, as something what determines our lives, our future, and our future lives Do you mean that the degree of freedom is what we experience as our own choice, and thus it directly affects the whole process?

But this would mean exactly the opposite of what I've learned from karma. It would mean that when you do something karmically unwholesome, then you don't necessarily have to "pay the price". Because of the uncertainty of the whole system, you might actually get away with no effects at all, or even the opposite effect. The degree of freedom also states that the effect must be close to the cause, but since karma is something what remains for thousands of lifetimes, it's hard to imagine that it'll still work then...

Or did I miss something?