Karma and Fate

[Lucky7Strikes]

@ Marble

 

We've gone down this road before. .

 

@ Athanor

 

What if, there is no you? Why can't you find it?

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

To all the 'yous' that "don't exist".. please get your non-existent asses out of the forum, you're annoying those of us that do exist.. especially, by somehow manifesting text on our screens that only existent beings can do..

 

Be well..

[Marblehead]

... just parts of the whole "me-concept"

 

Yes, you have it!

 

Peace & Love!

[Marblehead]

Greetings..

 

To all the 'yous' that "don't exist".. please get your non-existent asses out of the forum, you're annoying those of us that do exist.. especially, by somehow manifesting text on our screens that only existent beings can do..

 

Be well..

 

Hehehe. They are with us to stay. They just can't find their finger so that they can put their finger on "I". They'll be okay.

 

Peace & Love!

[Lucky7Strikes]

Greetings..

 

To all the 'yous' that "don't exist".. please get your non-existent asses out of the forum, you're annoying those of us that do exist.. especially, by somehow manifesting text on our screens that only existent beings can do..

 

Be well..

And where are you? Show me who you are!

 

Who are you?

 

Everything is fleeting like a dream! And one realizes nothing has arisen in the first place. All a play of the void, a figment of imagination.

 

There is no you, there is no I, there is no nothingness, nor there is no beingness, nor is there both.

 

BAHAHAHHAHA!

[Athanor]

There is no you, there is no I, there is no nothingness, nor there is no beingness, nor is there both.

Yet, the non-existent "I" still can hit the non-existent "you" with a frozen tuna And it will hurt the non-existent you, regardless whether you think there is "you" or not.

And I think, independently of all the mighty philosophical talk, eventually this is the only thing that matters.

[Marblehead]

Yet, the non-existent "I" still can hit the non-existent "you" with a frozen tuna And it will hurt the non-existent you, regardless whether you think there is "you" or not.

And I think, independently of all the mighty philosophical talk, eventually this is the only thing that matters.

 

Although I would use the word "permanent" instead of "non-existent" I agree with the above.

 

We can think all different forms of concepts and we can even live happily within our illusions and delusion but while we are walking down the sidewalk pretending that we don't exist and walk into a lamp post we are going to be hurting for a while.

 

So we deal with reality as our mind and senses present it to us and one day we will die and won't have to think any more.

 

(Unless you get reincarnated into a pig or skunk or some other beautiful animal.)

 

Peace & Love!

[ralis]

The advocates of nonexistence, incessantly use pronouns, posit the absolute isness of their nonexistent self, use reductionist techniques in an attempt to prove nonexistence and by extension, how far does one go to prove a nonexistent self. Their statements beg the question and just contradict themselves ad infinititum.

 

ralis

[TzuJanLi]

And where are you? Show me who you are!

 

Who are you?

 

Everything is fleeting like a dream! And one realizes nothing has arisen in the first place. All a play of the void, a figment of imagination.

 

There is no you, there is no I, there is no nothingness, nor there is no beingness, nor is there both.

 

BAHAHAHHAHA!

 

Yet, here i am.. I am Life, and living it with unconditional sincerity and spontaneous gusto.. You? you are Life, too.. pretending to be a sage, uttering preposterous unverifiable concepts/mind games.. it's like the marketing scheme of 'prestige pricing', where if you price it high enough, people will buy it simply because anything that costly must be good.. in the spiritual game, people speak with the air of authority and utter the most preposterous impossibilities, and.. yep, you guessed it.. people figure well, either there's some truth to it, or.. that's the most audaciously proud idiot on the planet.. they tend to believing there's some truth to it, simply because they can't imagine anyone that willfully utters such nonsense.. and, dang it, another one takes the 'bait'.. because, if you can get 'em to but that, the rest of the 'scheme' is a piece of cake..

 

The evidence is clear, we exist and it's not a dream.. still the mind, and see that this is so.. that's all, just still the mind.. notice that nothing changes. Or, listen to the 'stories', and pretend you don't exist, but.. you can't do that with a 'still mind', you have to keep telling yourself the same fairytale over and over.. but, it's your choice.. Clarity or fantasy?

 

Be well..

[Lucky7Strikes]

Yet, the non-existent "I" still can hit the non-existent "you" with a frozen tuna And it will hurt the non-existent you, regardless whether you think there is "you" or not.

And I think, independently of all the mighty philosophical talk, eventually this is the only thing that matters.

At a certain stage, pain is simultaneously liberated upon its rising. Bliss and pain arise together, and both are transcended.

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

At a certain stage, pain is simultaneously liberated upon its rising. Bliss and pain arise together, and both are transcended.

Quite right.. it's happens upon death of the physical vehicle.. the final 'stage'..

 

Be well..

[ralis]

At a certain stage, pain is simultaneously liberated upon its rising. Bliss and pain arise together, and both are transcended.

 

Is this your experience?

 

ralis

[Lucky7Strikes]

Yet, here i am.. I am Life, and living it with unconditional sincerity and spontaneous gusto.. You? you are Life, too.. pretending to be a sage, uttering preposterous unverifiable concepts/mind games.. it's like the marketing scheme of 'prestige pricing', where if you price it high enough, people will buy it simply because anything that costly must be good.. in the spiritual game, people speak with the air of authority and utter the most preposterous impossibilities, and.. yep, you guessed it.. people figure well, either there's some truth to it, or.. that's the most audaciously proud idiot on the planet.. they tend to believing there's some truth to it, simply because they can't imagine anyone that willfully utters such nonsense.. and, dang it, another one takes the 'bait'.. because, if you can get 'em to but that, the rest of the 'scheme' is a piece of cake..

 

The evidence is clear, we exist and it's not a dream.. still the mind, and see that this is so.. that's all, just still the mind.. notice that nothing changes. Or, listen to the 'stories', and pretend you don't exist, but.. you can't do that with a 'still mind', you have to keep telling yourself the same fairytale over and over.. but, it's your choice.. Clarity or fantasy?

 

Be well..

Life? What is that?

 

Here you are? Seek into where that "I" arises! That is the Middle Way. It is not I, it is not you.

 

The deeper you question, the ground loses its center. Everything returns to uncertainty, the spontaneity = "?"

 

Stilling the mind simply shifts consciousness. Like moving from one seat to another. Then back to where you started. From sleep to awakening, nothing changes.

 

Clarity...tell me what this "I" is. Life? What is "Life"? Energy? And where is this from? The Tao? And will you call it the Mystery?

 

Clarity? .

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

Life? What is that?

It permits you to define yourself as you choose, it even allows you to pretend you don't exist.. it allows you to craft intellectual deceptions and pedal them to unsuspecting seekers.. Life allows you to use itself with unconditional sincerity and Gusto, or you can use it as a negotiation for inflated self-imagery.. Life is impartial, like the sun it warms all creatures equally..the consequences, whether desirable or not, are the result of 'You'.. This is the description of how 'my' active mind interpretes experiences unfolded with the 'stilled mind'.. the only advantage to this is the active mind interprets from the Clarity of a 'stilled mind'.. the interpretations made from the 'Now' experiences of an active mind cannot be reconciled..

 

But, the short answer is 'You' are Life..

 

Be well..

[Lucky7Strikes]

Greetings..

 

 

It permits you to define yourself as you choose, it even allows you to pretend you don't exist.. it allows you to craft intellectual deceptions and pedal them to unsuspecting seekers.. Life allows you to use itself with unconditional sincerity and Gusto, or you can use it as a negotiation for inflated self-imagery..

Life is impartial, like the sun it warms all creatures equally..the consequences, whether desirable or not, are the result of 'You'.. This is the description of how 'my' active mind interpretes experiences unfolded with the 'stilled mind'.. the only advantage to this is the active mind interprets from the Clarity of a 'stilled mind'.. the interpretations made from the 'Now' experiences of an active mind cannot be reconciled..

 

But, the short answer is 'You' are Life..

 

Be well..

So when I asked what I am,

 

You said Life.

 

And when I ask what Life is,

 

You say it is the result of me.

 

And that again, I am Life.

 

Edited March 20, 2010 by Lucky7Strikes

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

So when I asked what I am,

 

You said Life.

 

And when I ask what Life is,

 

You say it is the result of me.

 

And that again, I am Life.

Precisely, Life is self-evident.. if you have to ask what it is, the more important question is "Why don't you understand".. to the 'still mind' it is perfectly clear.. to the active mind, it can't separate actuallity from the 'stories' it tells itself, or the 'stories' programmed my its mentors, so.. everything's a question, and every answer is another distracting 'story'..

 

'Still the mind', and experience Life unfolding.. story or no story, Life continues.. consider the magnitude and scope of 'stories' about 'Life', the conflicting interpretations, the drama of attachment and defense of the 'belief du jour'.. these 'stories' are conceptual imaginings, ALL of them, mine included/even this one, but.. is the 'Source' of the story the Clarity of a 'stilled mind', or is the 'Source' of the current 'story' just other stories..

 

'Story-telling' is essential, Clarity or deception are optional.. i choose Clarity..

 

Be Well..

[Marblehead]

Well, I have been reading all the posts in this thread and I still see no reason why I should believe in the concepts of karma, fate, or destiny.

 

But I'll keep reading all posts.

 

Peace & Love!

[Athanor]

Well, I have been reading all the posts in this thread and I still see no reason why I should believe in the concepts of karma, fate, or destiny.

 

But I'll keep reading all posts.

 

Peace & Love!

I think it's either karma, or destiny, but it's most likely a little bit of both.

[Marblehead]

I think it's either karma, or destiny, but it's most likely a little bit of both.

 

Hehehe. Yes, I have picked up on the understanding that you have a leaning toward Buddism. No problem for me. I just love my free will too much to give it up to any of those concepts.

 

Peace & Love!

[Athanor]

Hehehe. Yes, I have picked up on the understanding that you have a leaning toward Buddism. No problem for me. I just love my free will too much to give it up to any of those concepts.

 

Peace & Love!

If there is karma, or if there is destiny, they will affect your life whether you believe them or not.

Edited March 20, 2010 by Athanor

[Lucky7Strikes]

Greetings..

 

 

Precisely, Life is self-evident.. if you have to ask what it is, the more important question is "Why don't you understand".. to the 'still mind' it is perfectly clear.. to the active mind, it can't separate actuallity from the 'stories' it tells itself, or the 'stories' programmed my its mentors, so.. everything's a question, and every answer is another distracting 'story'..

 

'Still the mind', and experience Life unfolding.. story or no story, Life continues.. consider the magnitude and scope of 'stories' about 'Life', the conflicting interpretations, the drama of attachment and defense of the 'belief du jour'.. these 'stories' are conceptual imaginings, ALL of them, mine included/even this one, but.. is the 'Source' of the story the Clarity of a 'stilled mind', or is the 'Source' of the current 'story' just other stories..

 

'Story-telling' is essential, Clarity or deception are optional.. i choose Clarity..

 

Be Well..

Truth is not a story. It is reality.

 

You can go smoke weed if you want to still the mind. Take a downer, or better yet, take some pills and go to sleep.

 

The conceptual guides reality. Not the other way around. Insight frees you. But ultimately, the story is the reality.

 

Don't cage youself in stillness, believing it is Clarity or whatever.

 

Meet stillness with stillness, thought with thought, light with light. .

Edited March 20, 2010 by Lucky7Strikes

[Athanor]

Meet stillness with stillness, thought with thought, light with light.

I think this is not a general solution, it's not working in any case. In fact, there are "dark sides" in all of us, and you can't face darkness with darkness, yet, you can face it with light, just as you should allow darkness in light too.

Dealing with your good side with positive thoughts and nice things is something what you don't need a cultivation for - everyone can do that. Allowing your evil inner repressions to come up to this light and show themselves, or bringing this light down into your deepest darkest self, that is something that needs to be cultivated.

Your life is guided (beside your will) by those things which are suppressed deep inside your subconscious mind. I think these suppressions can be considered as the manifestations of karmic past, since they are unambiguous effects of all your past happenings, at least from the moment of your conception.

[Marblehead]

If there is karma, or if there is destiny, they will affect your life whether you believe them or not.

 

Now that's a statement I can live with, no questions asked.

 

Peace & Love!

[Lucky7Strikes]

I think this is not a general solution, it's not working in any case. In fact, there are "dark sides" in all of us, and you can't face darkness with darkness, yet, you can face it with light, just as you should allow darkness in light too.

Dealing with your good side with positive thoughts and nice things is something what you don't need a cultivation for - everyone can do that. Allowing your evil inner repressions to come up to this light and show themselves, or bringing this light down into your deepest darkest self, that is something that needs to be cultivated.

Your life is guided (beside your will) by those things which are suppressed deep inside your subconscious mind. I think these suppressions can be considered as the manifestations of karmic past, since they are unambiguous effects of all your past happenings, at least from the moment of your conception.

This is only when one gives value to light and darkness. When both are let go, light arises and dissolves on its own accord as with darkness.

 

It's the alchemy that ends alchemy, unless you want to keep playing with mixing things here and there.

Edited March 20, 2010 by Lucky7Strikes

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

Don't cage youself in stillness, believing it is Clarity or whatever.

It seems you don't have much experience with 'stillness' or Clarity.. it seems your idea of stillness has something to do with 'weed' or drugs, which would account for the lack of understanding.. Stillness is not a cage, it is the absence thereof.. true, stillness is not Clarity, but.. without stillness there is no Clarity..

Meet stillness with stillness, thought with thought, light with light

How's that workin' out for you? You posts suggest not so well, but that's just an observation.. i'm sure you'll explain error of the observation..

 

Be well..